View Full Version : "Heavily-armed" citizen militia group plans to patrol smuggling corridor
Anyone heard about this?
Heavily-armed citizen militia group plans to patrol smuggling corridor
By Teresa Jun
And Christopher Francis
PINAL COUNTY, AZ (KOLD) - A group of citizens plans to arm themselves with heavy weaponry and patrol the Vekol Valley area of Pinal County, looking for drug smugglers entering the country. They plan to conduct their patrol operation from 3:00pm Saturday to 3:00pm Sunday.
"We're going to block off the narcoterrorists that come up through this area," said Mesa resident Jason "J.T." Ready, who is organizing the gathering.
Ready says volunteers are coming from all over Arizona, and even out of state, to support the effort.
"This is the Minuteman Project on steroids," Ready explained. "We've got people with assault weapons. We will use lawful, deadly force where appropriate."
But Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu responds, "Though I appreciate their support and offer to take up arms and patrol, this would not be helpful, and would only cause a strain on already strained resources, and their safety needs to be a priority. I do not ask or encouraged them to come here."
The Vekol Valley area has become a highly-trafficked corridor for drug runners. The situation has become so dangerous that signs now warn people to stay away. Not far from the area, a Pinal County sheriff's deputy was shot and injured in late April.
Ready has ties to extremist groups, according to the Southern Poverty Law Cent
http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=12675989
Ready has ties to extremist groups, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center
Edit: I thought this would have been a point in his book, but since he's also actually a Neo-nazi, nope. Huh, for once the SPLC is actually right about something. Scary, indeed.
Good news but I'm not sure how the local LEOs and BP are going to take it. Might be good to cross-post it in this thread. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=54574&page=10 I'll post it there now as that's the main topic in that thread.
Ridge_Runner_5
06-21-10, 15:59
SPLC is laughable. They've also said the NRA is intertwined with the KKK....
If I had the cash and the gear, I'd head down there and join them...
But why is this newspaper telling everybody where and when the patrols are, completely defeating the purpose?
QuietShootr
06-21-10, 16:47
The SPLC can eat my balls. Put ME on your list, assholes, please.
That said - I thought this is the same sheriff that WANTED help? He's getting help, now he doesn't want it?
GermanSynergy
06-21-10, 17:15
The SPLC can eat my balls. Put ME on your list, assholes, please.
That said - I thought this is the same sheriff that WANTED help? He's getting help, now he doesn't want it?
SPLC, ACLU and others are radical left wing groups. Seems like a badge of honor to be ill thought of by these charlatans.
Well, the government will not do it. They say necessity is the mother of invention, right?
Well, the government will not do it. They say necessity is the mother of invention, right?
The thing about this is that the overwhelming odds are that the government will step in to stop this group, using force, while completely ignoring the illegals and smugglers...
I do wish this group good hunting...
ChicagoTex
06-21-10, 17:31
A bunch of nutjobs with plenty of weapons and no training trying to get involved in an already hot drug-war, what could possibly go wrong?
If you really want to fight in "The War on Drugs", sign on with your local PD or Border Patrol. If you can't due to incompetence or physical inability, that's probably a hint you ought not to try it on your own:rolleyes:
I wonder why he opted for a 9mm AR?
News clip with interview of the guy. Looks like 9mm AR. :rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAw6zaFxYI
QuietShootr
06-21-10, 17:37
A bunch of nutjobs with plenty of weapons and no training trying to get involved in an already hot drug-war, what could possibly go wrong?
If you really want to fight in "The War on Drugs", sign on with your local PD or Border Patrol. If you can't due to incompetence or physical inability, that's probably a hint you ought not to try it on your own:rolleyes:
Ah, the "Leave it To The Professionals" gambit. I see your LITTP and raise you a 'The 2nd Amendment Wasn't Written to Protect the Right of the Cops To Keep And Bear Arms'.
Ridge_Runner_5
06-21-10, 17:39
Gotta say, all the ACUs and camos really do add to the whackjob stereotype..
Belmont31R
06-21-10, 17:40
A bunch of nutjobs with plenty of weapons and no training trying to get involved in an already hot drug-war, what could possibly go wrong?
If you really want to fight in "The War on Drugs", sign on with your local PD or Border Patrol. If you can't due to incompetence or physical inability, that's probably a hint you ought not to try it on your own:rolleyes:
While I don't think its the best idea to go down there willy nilly, and "patrol" the border like this citizens do play a role, and should other than paying taxes or joining a government agency. Remember the 2nd, which applies to us peon citizens, says, "...the security of a free state,...". That means we have a role in our state security.
Times like this is when an organized militia could be of some help. Our government refuses to do its job, and prevents citizens from doing theirs. The result is the willy nilly approach seen here.
ChicagoTex
06-21-10, 18:08
Ah, the "Leave it To The Professionals" gambit. I see your LITTP and raise you a 'The 2nd Amendment Wasn't Written to Protect the Right of the Cops To Keep And Bear Arms'.
I have no issue with them being armed. I have issue with them putting themselves in obviously ultra-dangerous (perhaps even suicidal situations) because they believe their arms empower them to do so.
The 2nd Amendment doesn't give you the right to be a ****ing idiot.
Our government refuses to do its job
God this shit gets old with me. Our government does what job it can within the boundaries of law and budget. It never ceases to amaze me that, apparently, if the government agency with the shit budget and low personnel can't stop the problem completely, 100%, it must be "because the government refuses".
Belmont31R
06-21-10, 18:13
I have no issue with them being armed. I have issue with them putting themselves in obviously ultra-dangerous (perhaps even suicidal situations) because they believe their arms empower them to do so.
The 2nd Amendment doesn't give you the right to be a ****ing idiot.
God this shit gets old with me. Our government does what job it can within the boundaries of law and budget. It never ceases to amaze me that, apparently, if the government agency with the shit budget and low personnel can't stop the problem completely, 100%, it must be "because the government refuses".
Yes they do. Are you to believe the richest, and most powerful country in the world cannot afford to secure its own borders, and have some semblance of security?
We spend well over a trillion a year on welfare and social programs. Dont tell me the budget wont allow it. They just dont want to.
Just like Obama said NASA is too expensive even though its less than 1% of the budget. We can also spend a trillion dollars fighting two wars since late 2001 for our security, and yet we cant secure our own borders?
If you really want to fight in "The War on Drugs", sign on with your local PD or Border Patrol.
Even better, if you want to help don't do drugs. No demand = no reason for a supply. Why join a "war" that's been going on for almost 40 years and is a complete failure? Look at the root cause and work at eliminating the demand.
...
But why is this newspaper telling everybody where and when the patrols are, completely defeating the purpose?
I think that's the newspaper's (forgive the pun) aim.
...
That said - I thought this is the same sheriff that WANTED help? He's getting help, now he doesn't want it?
Ah, but it doesn't come through official channels, with the paperwork filled out in triplicate and with the appropriate higher-ups signatures.
The thing about this is that the overwhelming odds are that the government will step in to stop this group, using force, while completely ignoring the illegals and smugglers...
I do wish this group good hunting...
Much easier job to do than going after the illegals (sorry, undocumented non-resident citizens) and smugglers (sorry again, unlicensed pharmaceutical distributors). My hat is off to the guys on the front line actually making the arrests. At least they're trying to do something about the situation that's been created by the politicians/bureaucrats.
A bunch of nutjobs with plenty of weapons and no training trying to get involved in an already hot drug-war, what could possibly go wrong?
If you really want to fight in "The War on Drugs", sign on with your local PD or Border Patrol. If you can't due to incompetence or physical inability, that's probably a hint you ought not to try it on your own:rolleyes:
Yep, you're right. Maybe we should have told that same message to Paul Revere, Samuel Adams, Isaac Davis, John Hancock, William Dawes, et. al. way back when.
While I don't think its the best idea to go down there willy nilly, and "patrol" the border like this citizens do play a role, and should other than paying taxes or joining a government agency. Remember the 2nd, which applies to us peon citizens, says, "...the security of a free state,...". That means we have a role in our state security.
Times like this is when an organized militia could be of some help. Our government refuses to do its job, and prevents citizens from doing theirs. The result is the willy nilly approach seen here.
Seems to me there are turf wars being fought on both sides of the border.
ChicagoTex
06-21-10, 18:22
Yes they do. Are you to believe the richest, and most powerful country in the world cannot afford to secure its own borders, and have some semblance of security?
We spend well over a trillion a year on welfare and social programs. Dont tell me the budget wont allow it. They just dont want to.
Just like Obama said NASA is too expensive even though its less than 1% of the budget. We can also spend a trillion dollars fighting two wars since late 2001 for our security, and yet we cant secure our own borders?
It looks like first I misunderstood you and then you misunderstood me.
The BP and related forces have very little control over how much of the overall US budget is appropriated to them. I believe they do the best they can within their appropriated budgets.
Whether or not they should have more (and from where it should come from) is a different debate it looks like you and I could see more eye to eye on.
What I was taking offense to was my perception that you were implying the BP and related forces were slacking. They aren't, they're doing the best they can given the meager support (financial and otherwise they receive).
So I guess you and I are in more alignment than it first seemed.
WITH ALL THAT SAID: I still don't believe a bunch of amateur weekend warriors putting themselves in harms way is a good solution. I agree that some manner of intermediary official Militia would be desireable (citizens with training, but not soldiers).
ChicagoTex
06-21-10, 18:25
Even better, if you want to help don't do drugs. No demand = no reason for a supply. Why join a "war" that's been going on for almost 40 years and is a complete failure? Look at the root cause and work at eliminating the demand.
Good point.
Yep, you're right. Maybe we should have told that same message to Paul Revere, Samuel Adams, Isaac Davis, John Hancock, William Dawes, et. al. way back when.
Oh puh-leaze. I'm not even going to bother to explain why that's a total non-sequitur here.
MisterWilson
06-21-10, 18:48
I don't know if any of you can see this link without being logged in, but word is that he really is a nazi and is NOT the guy you want representing this movement.
http://arizonashooting.com/v3/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=111356&hilit=border
He's also been linked to several news reports on the pro-1070 rallies, it's like he's the go-to guy when it comes to linking racists and the militia movement. So he's a media whore too.
I don't know if any of you can see this link without being logged in, but word is that he really is a nazi and is NOT the guy you want representing this movement.
No dice. You need a log in.
He's also been linked to several news reports on the anti-1070 rallies, it's like he's the go-to guy when it comes to linking racists and the militia movement. So he's a media whore too.Not sure I'm tracking... Why would he be anti-1070 and then be out playing G.I. Joe against the illegals?
A bunch of nutjobs with plenty of weapons and no training trying to get involved in an already hot drug-war, what could possibly go wrong?
If you really want to fight in "The War on Drugs", sign on with your local PD or Border Patrol. If you can't due to incompetence or physical inability, that's probably a hint you ought not to try it on your own:rolleyes:
I see someone wasn't taught the history of who helped defeat the british, the reason for the second amendment, etc.
ChicagoTex
06-21-10, 19:05
I registered, but your link still comes up telling me "I'm not authorized to read this forum".
Oh puh-leaze. I'm not even going to bother to explain why that's a total non-sequitur here.
No, please do.
MisterWilson
06-21-10, 19:25
No dice. You need a log in.
Not sure I'm tracking... Why would he be anti-1070 and then be out playing G.I. Joe against the illegals?
Whoops, my mistake.
Pro-1070 rallies.
I wonder why he opted for a 9mm AR?
The only non-rimfire caliber that wouldn't knock the zero loose on his NCStar optic.
I don't like where these guys are going. Good initiative, bad judgement.
VooDoo6Actual
06-21-10, 19:27
FULL DISCLOSURE :
FTR
I have NEVER been affiliated with this individual or any of their associates.
I do not know or have ever been associated with this individual.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2008/spring/the-nativists?page=0,17
The Nativists
Profiles of 20 Anti-Immigrant Leaders
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Jason "J.T." Ready, 34
Mesa, Ariz.
A member of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps as well as the founder of the prominent, Arizona-based nativist extremist organization Americans First, Jason "J.T." Ready advocates deadly force to stop Mexicans from crossing the U.S. border illegally. "I firmly believe in having a minefield across the border," he says in a widely distributed video. "This is 100% effective."
The past president of the Mesa Community College Republican Club and current Maricopa County Republican precinct committeeman, Ready is deeply involved in mainstream conservative politics. He's also an outright neo-Nazi. Ready spoke at a rally put on by the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement in Omaha, Neb., last September (where he was billed as an "Arizona Republican activist") and appeared at the neo-Nazi National Vanguard's "Winterfest" gathering in Phoenix last December. He regularly posts to white nationalist online forums, including NewSaxon, where last December he offered this charming observation on the root causes of illegal immigration: "The truth is that negroids screw monkeys and rape babies in afreaka [sic]. Then stupid white man who licks kosher jew rear lets negroids in. … Stop Negroid immigration and integration now!!! Nature will take care of the rest."
Jason "J.T." Ready
In 2006, Ready ran for Mesa City Council. He made headlines that March when he fired a pistol at a Latino man armed with a BB gun. Later, his campaign derailed when, shortly after Ready volunteered to act as master of ceremonies at the Mesa Veteran's Day parade, it came to light that Ready had been court-martialed and drummed out of the Marines.
Despite this embarrassment, Ready informed the Intelligence Report he plans to run for office again — even though he fears assassination. "They want to kill the patriot who is only a lowly dogcatcher long before he can expose the aliens who subvert freedom from within the halls of Congress or the White House," he said. "Though I want to live free and in peace, I am fully prepared to be murdered or falsely imprisoned for what I believe to be true."
And he may already have come up with a campaign slogan. Ready apparently sees himself as the new David Lane, riffing on the recently deceased white nationalist icon's notorious "14 words" with his own version, which Ready calls the 18 words: "The Purity of the Aryan Race is the most precious resource Nature has to offer All of Humankind."
I do think I'd "hit it" with the newsperson Heather although...;-/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAw6zaFxYI
Another article here:
http://www.thepinkflamingoblog.com/2010/06/20/j-t-ready-and-his-merry-band-of-neo-nazis-ready-to-defend-the-border/
Neo-Nazi J. T. Ready (pal of Russell Pearce, Sheriff Joe, and J. D. Hayworth) is reporting for duty! To The Pink Flamingo, the real question is whether or not, the tea party “patriots” in Phoenix have severed their relationship with him.
“…The past president of the Mesa Community College Republican Club and current Maricopa County Republican precinct committeeman, Ready is deeply involved in mainstream conservative politics. He’s also an outright neo-Nazi. Ready spoke at a rally put on by the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement in Omaha, Neb., last September (where he was billed as an “Arizona Republican activist”) and appeared at the neo-Nazi National Vanguard’s “Winterfest” gathering in Phoenix last December. He regularly posts to white nationalist online forums, including NewSaxon, where last December he offered this charming observation on the root causes of illegal immigration: “The truth is that negroids screw monkeys and rape babies in afreaka [sic]. Then stupid white man who licks kosher jew rear lets negroids in. … Stop Negroid immigration and integration now!!! Nature will take care of the rest.”…”
From the Arizona Star:
“…Phoenix man described as a neo-Nazi is calling for people to bring “plenty of firearms and ammo” to a border watch operation in Pinal County that he is promoting as the “Minuteman Project on steroids.”
The man behind the rally call is Jason “J.T.” Ready, who is identified as a “nativist” an “outright neo-Nazi” by the Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights organization that monitors hate groups.
In an e-mail titled “Border action alert,” Ready calls for a “show of force and solidarity of concerned patriots … to stand the line near Interstate 8 to show the world that the line in the sand has been drawn.”
The operation is set to take place today in the Vekol Valley, located about halfway between Casa Grande and Gila Bend. It’s the same area that Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu has said is now controlled by drug smugglers, and where a deputy from his department got into a gunfight with suspected smugglers on April 30.
Ready specifically invites militias, motorcycle clubs, National Guard, constitutional groups and the National Socialist Movement. The NSM is one of the largest neo-Nazi hate groups in the country with 61 chapters in 35 states, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Reached by phone, Ready said he’s a member of the group but said it’s not a neo-Nazi hate group. Asked to describe it, he said it’s a national socialism group. He said the Southern Poverty Law Center is among a group of organizations that is out to destroy America.
Ready said he and volunteers will shut down the major drug smuggling corridor for 24 hours by putting snipers on observation points and patrolling in vehicles and on foot. He declined to estimate how many people he expected. He and others were already out in the valley Friday doing work, he said.
“We’ve got assault rifles, we’ve got military equipment,” Ready said. “This is a serious situation we have coming into Phoenix.”
The proposed operation and the people Ready’s recruiting makes it a potentially dangerous situation, said Heidi Beirich, director of research at the Southern Poverty Law Center.
“This is like the worst case scenario,” Beirich said. “Whatever you want to say about the Minutemen, there was some responsibility about the fact that it could be a dangerous situation. J.T.’s like the opposite: ‘Come on down every crazy person on the planet and bring your weapons and we’ll take ‘em on.’ “…”
This is not good, but the real problem: Russell Pearce, the power behind Arizona’s anti-immigration idiocy.
Sounds like a real stand up guy. :rolleyes: What a moron.
The 2nd Amendment doesn't give you the right to be a ****ing idiot.
So I guess George Washington's army was a bunch of ****ing idiots.
:confused:
Don Robison
06-21-10, 21:31
So I guess George Washington's army was a bunch of ****ing idiots.
:confused:
No but this Ready guy is.
You might want to take a gander at the Nationalist Socialist Movement website before throwing your hat in with this douche bag.;)
Belmont31R
06-21-10, 22:05
No but this Ready guy is.
You might want to take a gander at the Nationalist Socialist Movement website before throwing your hat in with this douche bag.;)
Theres a clear difference between supporting someones beliefs, and supporting their right to exercise their rights (and by extension their beliefs).
The guy sounds like a shitty individual but the 2nd applies to him as much as it does to me or anyone else for that matter.
Nothing is worse than when a guy like this makes a big public show of taking your side of an issue.
:mad:
Belmont31R
06-21-10, 22:12
Nothing is worse than when a guy like this makes a big public show of taking your side of an issue.
:mad:
What side would that be? The guy is some sort of neo nazi dude wanting to kill Mexicans. I don't personally know any right wingish type people who are advocating quasi genocide along the border. Sure we'd like to see MORE done but thats a far cry from it being about some racial superiority. Race has nothing to do with it for me. Id be just as pissed if Canadians starting coming here doing the same thing Mexican/SA illegals are doing. For this guy it is about race. Im sure he'd be just fine with a flood of "aryans" or whatever the **** they call it.
If you allow the lefties to define us then we've already lost....;)
Don Robison
06-21-10, 22:15
Theres a clear difference between supporting someones beliefs, and supporting their right to exercise their rights (and by extension their beliefs).
The guy sounds like a shitty individual but the 2nd applies to him as much as it does to me or anyone else for that matter.
The guy can have as many guns as he wants and could be supporting an orphanage, but it doesn't change my opinion of his intelligence or douchebaggery.
If he and his merry band of racists are so intent on cleaning up the corridor by committing murder why is he advertising it on the news?
A. He's an idiot.
B. He wants the govt to step in and stop him so he can make a big show of it.
C. Both A & B.
My vote goes to C.
variablebinary
06-21-10, 22:27
If citizens want to arm themselves and defend their safety and sovereignty from a foreign invaders and parasites, let them have it.
An immaculate past is not, and should not be a prerequisite to defending your home
It's going to get bloody regardless. Anyone that thinks there is a peaceable solution to open borders is in fantasy land. They might get shot and killed. They might shoot and kill in return. If they can prevent even a .001% intrusion they've made a bigger difference than the politicians have
What side would that be? The guy is some sort of neo nazi dude wanting to kill Mexicans. I don't personally know any right wingish type people who are advocating quasi genocide along the border. Sure we'd like to see MORE done but thats a far cry from it being about some racial superiority. Race has nothing to do with it for me.
Absolutely. We should have a shoot on sight policy for anyone crossing in from the north or south, except for those crossing legally through a border checkpoint.
VooDoo6Actual
06-21-10, 22:55
Go for head shots and have a organ harvesting team standing by for financial restitution & costs...
Ive always said, a few well trained snipers along our bordes could do some real good for us....
Don Robison
06-21-10, 23:41
If citizens want to arm themselves and defend their safety and sovereignty from a foreign invaders and parasites, let them have it.
An immaculate past is not, and should not be a prerequisite to defending your home
It's going to get bloody regardless. Anyone that thinks there is a peaceable solution to open borders is in fantasy land. They might get shot and killed. They might shoot and kill in return. If they can prevent even a .001% intrusion they've made a bigger difference than the politicians have
Take a look at about 3:24 on the video. This guy is a ****tard plain and simple.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey7JtRzpcmA
ChicagoTex
06-21-10, 23:54
We should have a shoot on sight policy for anyone crossing in from the north or south, except for those crossing legally through a border checkpoint.
Go for head shots and have a organ harvesting team standing by for financial restitution & costs...
Ive always said, a few well trained snipers along our bordes could do some real good for us....
It's stuff like this that tempts me to sell all my guns so people won't mistake me for being in any way associated with you.
To believe that border hopping warrants instant murder (no, it's not defense you're talking about, it's not patriotism, it's cold-blooded ****ing MURDER) is some of the most depressing, barbaric and bloodthirsty madness I've ever seen.
And you're the ones who claim the PROGRESSIVES are trying to bring about Nazi Germany... :rolleyes:
There are ways to police the border without slaughtering desperate men, women, and children (which is what most illegal immigrants are), and as supposed human beings I believe it is our responsibility to seek out and invest in those.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go vomit.
It's stuff like this that tempts me to sell all my guns so people won't mistake me for being in any way associated with you.
To believe that border hopping warrants instant murder (no, it's not defense you're talking about, it's not patriotism, it's cold-blooded ****ing MURDER) is some of the most depressing, barbaric and bloodthirsty madness I've ever seen.
And you're the ones who claim the PROGRESSIVES are trying to bring about Nazi Germany... :rolleyes:
There are ways to police the border without slaughtering desperate men, women, and children (which is what most illegal immigrants are), and as supposed human beings I believe it is our responsibility to seek out and invest in those.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go vomit.
Oh for ****s sake dude. I never said shoot unarmed wemon and children. Dont put words in my mouth. Shoot on site for ARMED drug runners. Just like any war, if your armed you get dead. Now make sure your wife or "life partner" holds your hair back while you puke and save the sorry mexicans....:p
variablebinary
06-22-10, 00:12
Take a look at about 3:24 on the video. This guy is a ****tard plain and simple.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey7JtRzpcmA
The world is full of ****tards. If that is how they want to roll, let them deal with the consequences to mating ideology and action. It is a free country, even for ****tards.
I personally am inclined to believe the best deterrent and security would be clandestine in nature. Not overt, and certainly not on youtube. No MG42's around the clock. No snipers.
Tactical is not just a buzzword to sell gear :)
parishioner
06-22-10, 00:22
nvm.......
ChicagoTex
06-22-10, 00:24
Oh for ****s sake dude. I never said shoot unarmed wemon and children. Dont put words in my mouth.
This is what you dogpiled onto:
We should have a shoot on sight policy for anyone crossing in from the north or south, except for those crossing legally through a border checkpoint.
(Emphasis mine).
Don't have a spaz when I quote you for what you said, rather than what you didn't say (but apparently meant). I'm not psychic.
I am a huge fan of how you implied I was gay for caring about the "sorry Mexicans", though. Way to take the high road.
Belmont31R
06-22-10, 00:28
Shooting people without provocation is plain stupid, and criminal for good reason.
How are you going to distinguish a person being armed, and here illegaly vs. someone just going hiking while armed? Lots of people down there walk around armed because of the criminal activity.
Im all for heavy enforcement but no ****ing way should this country be shooting people simply based on where they are standing armed or not. Last time I checked its mostly legal to be on public land while armed, or is that a crime now, too?
ChicagoTex
06-22-10, 00:31
How are you going to distinguish a person being armed, and here illegaly vs. someone just going hiking while armed? Lots of people down there walk around armed because of the criminal activity.
Im all for heavy enforcement but no ****ing way should this country be shooting people simply based on where they are standing armed or not. Last time I checked its mostly legal to be on public land while armed, or is that a crime now, too?
Good points also, hadn't considered them.
First off let me say that I was seriously considering going down to Pinal county to help. However, once I did a little research into who this douche bag was there was no way in hell I was going to allow myself to be associated with him.
I agree that he even though he is a dirt bag he still has the right to "defend his state" or whatever. But, this guy seems to be itching for a fight and after listening to some other comments by the Sheriff I think these guys may do more harm than good.
At this point drug smuggling through the southern border is so profitable and easy that if anyone sealed it off, it would be the biggest shooting war we've had with Mexico since the first one. What is worse is that the drug production would also move back to the USA en mass. The same guys shooting it up down there would be shooting it up in the US. Making drugs is cheap in Mexico, so is smuggling them in. If the drug cartels hadn't made enough money to set up their own fiefdoms, the Mexican government would probably just be content to leave them be + kickbacks.
If these retards go looking for a fight, they're going to find one pretty quick.
A bunch of nutjobs with plenty of weapons and no training trying to get involved in an already hot drug-war, what could possibly go wrong?
If you really want to fight in "The War on Drugs", sign on with your local PD or Border Patrol. If you can't due to incompetence or physical inability, that's probably a hint you ought not to try it on your own:rolleyes:
Thank God that wasn't the prevailing attitude in 1775 and too bad it is now...'Patriot' has morphed into a dirty word....
QuietShootr
06-22-10, 06:47
Theres a clear difference between supporting someones beliefs, and supporting their right to exercise their rights (and by extension their beliefs).
The guy sounds like a shitty individual but the 2nd applies to him as much as it does to me or anyone else for that matter.
Exactly. He may be a piece of shit, but the Bill of Rights applies to pieces of shit just as it does to people you like (actually, it applies MORE. The BoR wasn't put in place to defend people the .gov likes.)
QuietShootr
06-22-10, 06:48
If citizens want to arm themselves and defend their safety and sovereignty from a foreign invaders and parasites, let them have it.
An immaculate past is not, and should not be a prerequisite to defending your home
It's going to get bloody regardless. Anyone that thinks there is a peaceable solution to open borders is in fantasy land. They might get shot and killed. They might shoot and kill in return. If they can prevent even a .001% intrusion they've made a bigger difference than the politicians have
****ing exactly.
QuietShootr
06-22-10, 06:49
The world is full of ****tards. If that is how they want to roll, let them deal with the consequences to mating ideology and action. It is a free country, even for ****tards.
I personally am inclined to believe the best deterrent and security would be clandestine in nature. Not overt, and certainly not on youtube. No MG42's around the clock. No snipers.
Tactical is not just a buzzword to sell gear :)
I approve of your ideas, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
There are ways to police the border without slaughtering desperate men, women, and children (which is what most illegal immigrants are), and as supposed human beings I believe it is our responsibility to seek out and invest in those.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go vomit.
It's an invasion and we need to use deadly force to repel it. You pantywaist liberal hand-wringing methods haven't worked for 50 years and they are not working now.
Im all for heavy enforcement but no ****ing way should this country be shooting people simply based on where they are standing armed or not. Last time I checked its mostly legal to be on public land while armed, or is that a crime now, too?
They should not be shot for being armed. They should be shot as they cross the border into the U.S. at a location other than an established border checkpoint.
A bunch of nutjobs with plenty of weapons and no training trying to get involved in an already hot drug-war, what could possibly go wrong?
If you really want to fight in "The War on Drugs", sign on with your local PD or Border Patrol. If you can't due to incompetence or physical inability, that's probably a hint you ought not to try it on your own:rolleyes:
Citizen soldiers is a cornerstone concept of this nation. I'm not defending this group as I don't have enough info on them, but making blanket statements about civilians taking up arms is like making blanket statements about LEOs and or mil, not cool.
If they were a group of ranchers and local businessmen, and one or more in the group had mil training, and they were trained up by those people, and they coordinated with local LEO, etc, then I would be supportive of their efforts.
If they are just a bunch of wanna be mall ninjas, then they will likely do more harm then good and possibly get themselves killed, or worse, end up shooting some poor border patrol agents they stumble on.
ChicagoTex
06-22-10, 08:19
If they were a group of ranchers and local businessmen, and one or more in the group had mil training, and they were trained up by those people, and they coordinated with local LEO, etc, then I would be supportive of their efforts.
If they are just a bunch of wanna be mall ninjas, then they will likely do more harm then good and possibly get themselves killed, or worse, end up shooting some poor border patrol agents they stumble on.
You and I are in total agreement. It was obvious to me the second I saw them that they fell in the latter category, and have hence received my condemnation.
Again, it's NOT because they're armed, it's because they seem to believe the fact that their armed will make them capable of a task for which they are clearly NOT cut out.
Guns don't make people supermen.
QuietShootr
06-22-10, 08:22
You and I are in total agreement. It was obvious to me the second I saw them that they fell in the latter category, and have hence received my condemnation.
Again, it's NOT because they're armed, it's because they seem to believe the fact that their armed will make them capable of a task for which they are clearly NOT cut out.
Guns don't make people supermen.
Neither does a 5 month police academy or a run through FLETC.
If citizens want to arm themselves and defend their safety and sovereignty from a foreign invaders and parasites, let them have it.
An immaculate past is not, and should not be a prerequisite to defending your home
It's going to get bloody regardless. Anyone that thinks there is a peaceable solution to open borders is in fantasy land. They might get shot and killed. They might shoot and kill in return. If they can prevent even a .001% intrusion they've made a bigger difference than the politicians have
I completely agree.
Go for head shots and have a organ harvesting team standing by for financial restitution & costs...
Now that is thinking out of the box:D
ChicagoTex
06-22-10, 08:28
Neither does a 5 month police academy or a run through FLETC.
No, but those rookies are surrounded and supervised by much more experienced individuals and have the full support and resources of the law and their respective jurisdictional governments behind them.
They've also previously demonstrated at least a basic level of physical and mental capability to get as far as they have and have experienced at least nominal training.
I'm not convinced these yahoos have any of that, and believe the only way they'll survive this is if they never wind up making contact.
Here's hoping, I'd hate to burden the local hospitals/morgues with this profoundly Darwinian level of stupid.
You and I are in total agreement. It was obvious to me the second I saw them that they fell in the latter category, and have hence received my condemnation.
It didn't read like that. It read as a general condemnation on anyone not LE or mil taking up arms. This particular group, does not look like good mojo for sure.
Again, it's NOT because they're armed, it's because they seem to believe the fact that their armed will make them capable of a task for which they are clearly NOT cut out.
When has that ever stopped anyone?! :eek::D:eek:
Guns don't make people supermen.
They do on TV...
He may be an offensive retard, but that does not mean we should NOT seal the border against yet another 20 million illegal invaders.
ChicagoTex
06-22-10, 08:34
It didn't read like that. It read as a general condemnation on anyone not LE or mil taking up arms. This particular group, does not look like good mojo for sure.
I apologize if it seemed that way. What I was trying to highlight is that the current situation with drugrunners on the border is extremely deadly and absolutely no place for amateurs.
It wasn't a criticism of rights excercise, it was a criticism of blatantly suicidal behavior.
t the current situation with drugrunners on the border is extremely deadly and absolutely no place for amateurs.
.
The pros aren't doing squat. So what do you suggest?
Citizen soldiers is a cornerstone concept of this nation. I'm not defending this group as I don't have enough info on them, but making blanket statements about civilians taking up arms is like making blanket statements about LEOs and or mil, not cool.
If they were a group of ranchers and local businessmen, and one or more in the group had mil training, and they were trained up by those people, and they coordinated with local LEO, etc, then I would be supportive of their efforts.
If they are just a bunch of wanna be mall ninjas, then they will likely do more harm then good and possibly get themselves killed, or worse, end up shooting some poor border patrol agents they stumble on.
This is a great statement.^ One thing though is that some of the ranchers have tried to do this and the LEO support is hit and miss. Plus what do you do about the public land where nothing is being done, and there are no ranchers present?
I dont understand what everyone is so upset over with this group, donr101395 had it right with this:
If he and his merry band of racists are so intent on cleaning up the corridor by committing murder why is he advertising it on the news?
A. He's an idiot.
B. He wants the govt to step in and stop him so he can make a big show of it.
C. Both A & B.
My vote goes to C.
So they will get to deal with the consequences of their actions.
QuietShootr
06-22-10, 08:41
No, but those rookies are surrounded and supervised by much more experienced individuals and have the full support and resources of the law and their respective jurisdictional governments behind them.
They've also previously demonstrated at least a basic level of physical and mental capability to get as far as they have and have experienced at least nominal training.
I'm not convinced these yahoos have any of that, and believe the only way they'll survive this is if they never wind up making contact.
Here's hoping, I'd hate to burden the local hospitals/morgues with this profoundly Darwinian level of stupid.
I am NOT defending them personally, they very well may be ****tards. That's not the point.
Regardless, like someone said about the crazy dude hunting bin Laden on his own, good for him for putting his money where his mouth is even if he's a shithead. At least he's a shithead with enough courage to follow through with the stuff he ran his mouth about.
QuietShootr
06-22-10, 08:50
http://www.elfinanciero.com.mx/ElFinanciero/Portal/cfpages/contentmgr.cfm?docId=269056&docTipo=1&orderby=docid&sortby=ASC
(translated from Spanish. This is from El Financiero in Mexico)
Intrigue armed attacks against illegal immigrants in southern Arizona
Mundo Hispano - Sunday 20 June (18:30 hrs)
* In these incidents, about 12 immigrants were injured by bullets and at least three have died
* The authorities said investigators still have no clues to the attackers
The online Financial
Phoenix, June 20 .- suspected illegal immigrants and drug traffickers are being attacked and killed by strangers in the desert areas of southern Arizona, in a series of incidents that remain intrigued to authorities.
The Sheriff's Department Santa Cruz County, on the border with Mexico, has registered more than 50 attacks since April 2008 to date.
In these incidents, about 12 immigrants were injured by bullets and at least three have died.
The attackers were described as men armed with automatic rifles who wear camouflage clothes and are waiting to ambush immigrants on the U.S. side of the border.
Farther north in Pinal County between Tucson and Phoenix, there have been another series of armed incidents against undocumented or suspected traffickers.
On 11 June, two Mexicans, who had presumed drug authorities on their backs, were shot dead in an area of Pinal County, about 130 kilometers from the border with Mexico.
Further south, the same day, a group of five illegal immigrants were ambushed by two men wearing camouflage clothing near the community of Rio Rico, between Nogales and Tucson.
One of the undocumented, identified as Manuel Esquer Gomez, 45, was shot in the arm while running to escape the fire along with the rest of his teammates.
The immigrants managed to get to a road for help. In reporting the incident to the authorities, immigrants reported seeing two bodies as they ran for safety.
Agents from the Sheriff's Office went to the scene and found the body of a person of Mexican nationality and whose cause of death has not yet been clarified.
The sheriff of the county of Santa Cruz, Antonio Estrada, said investigators still have no clues to the attackers.
"It's disturbing to hear of people with high powered rifles and camouflage clothing. Wake up some red flags, "said the sheriff.
Speaking this week at the television station KVOA in Tucson, Estrada said he did not want to speculate, but pointed out that in the investigations "will not dismiss any possibility, including that the attackers are U.S. citizens.
"There may be individuals who might be hunting illegally. That is indeed a great concern for us, "he warned.
The attacks differ from other incidents of violence at the border because the victims were not demand anything and are not stolen. Those affected are attacked by surprise when they walk and those who do not shoot your face and try to hide.
Last November, a hunter found the body of an illegal immigrant who was shot to death in Santa Cruz County, a week after that in the same area other migrant asked for help in a house and reported having been injured by a sniper.
The incidents are similar to several recorded during the past 18 months, in which victims are injured and killed in shoulders, arms or legs. (With information from Notimex / JOT)
http://nelsonhaha.com/
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll74/mmajunkie92/care-o-meter.gif
http://data.tumblr.com/v8Y1VvbEma2efk3vWvg3NmQm_400.gif
I apologize if it seemed that way. What I was trying to highlight is that the current situation with drugrunners on the border is extremely deadly and absolutely no place for amateurs.
On paper, and in a perfect world, I would agree. It's been amateurs however that have been in the thick of it all through history often due to necessity, real or perceived. I'm not claiming that's the case here per se (but it may end up that way as more and more people are getting pissed...) but again, I think blanket statements are not productive.
It wasn't a criticism of rights excercise, it was a criticism of blatantly suicidal behavior.
Die of cancer, CVD, etc, or die fighting for something you believe in, but die you will. I worry much more about them killing some border patrol agent, or person out for a hike, etc. If they happen to actually walk up on a drug smuggling crew, and get into a fire fight and die, well that's the outcome of playing in the big boys sand box. Hell, their deaths might even be the final straw that forces the government to actually put the needed resources to the problem as it would be a PR nightmare for many.
Remember also, people dieing doing some really stupid ill thought out stuff has often been the catalyst to major change for the better.
For me, it's essential to keep the larger issues here separate from this particular group. The problem is, the media and others who have their agenda(s) will attempt to paint all such groups with the same brush, and I think we only give them "ammo" by making over generalized comments.
I wonder if this made the Lounge over on StormFront. :eek:
Belmont31R
06-22-10, 10:32
Citizen soldiers is a cornerstone concept of this nation. I'm not defending this group as I don't have enough info on them, but making blanket statements about civilians taking up arms is like making blanket statements about LEOs and or mil, not cool.
If they were a group of ranchers and local businessmen, and one or more in the group had mil training, and they were trained up by those people, and they coordinated with local LEO, etc, then I would be supportive of their efforts.
If they are just a bunch of wanna be mall ninjas, then they will likely do more harm then good and possibly get themselves killed, or worse, end up shooting some poor border patrol agents they stumble on.
This is why we are supposed to have an organized militia. They do come in handy. Instead our society has shaped up to be largely incapable of doing anything to secure itself outside of mainline government agencies.
If you do want to help you are told to sit down, STFU, and let the "professionals" handle it. Well they are not handling it, and citizens are still told to sit down and STFU. Just pay your taxes on time, and be a quiet citizen.
If you do want to help you are told to sit down, STFU, and let the "professionals" handle it. Well they are not handling it,
I think it's essential to make the distinction here. The professionals are handling it to the best of their ability with the very limited resources given, etc. I don't envy at all the various local and fed agencies who work the borders. Washington DC specifically is where the essential business of this country - as it relates to this situation - is where it's not getting done.
and citizens are still told to sit down and STFU. Just pay your taxes on time, and be a quiet citizen.
Which goes against the very foundation of this country and many people aint having it. Of course such polar issues also bring every nut, moron, and wack job out of the rocks they were under, and it all gets messy, and history shows us has been the norm unless the powers that be step up and do the damn job they were elected to do.
I know, too much to ask. :rolleyes:
VooDoo6Actual
06-22-10, 11:57
First off let me say that I was seriously considering going down to Pinal county to help. However, once I did a little research into who this douche bag was there was no way in hell I was going to allow myself to be associated with him.
I agree that he even though he is a dirt bag he still has the right to "defend his state" or whatever. But, this guy seems to be itching for a fight and after listening to some other comments by the Sheriff I think these guys may do more harm than good.
+1
THIS is 110% correct.
kaiservontexas
06-22-10, 13:49
Senator Kyl is interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmrigSgIzkg
I do not care if it is the badge or the politician that failed. Failure is unacceptable. Failure has led to National Socialist Kluxers doing what they are doing down there right now.
A NAZI is not defending the U.S. because to defend US he would have to believe in the Constitution. The two ideologies are not compatible. The NAZI is trying to utilize a hot button issue that needed to be solved decades back for propaganda purposes. Remember they laughed at Hitler in the 20s. They did not laugh by the mid 30s when they were thrown into chains. These people know patience. They study the idiotic Corporal from Austria religiously.
No this NAZI has a two fold win for himself. He has the sympathies of those who are reaching the snapping point. He gets to potentially kill non-white individuals and possibly get away with it and be glorified.
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