mk 12

[sac]

I tried to use the search but didn't bring anything up.

I would like to build a mk12 clone and I want to know if it would make much differance if I use a 1-8 instead of a 1-7. I see on Bravo Co. site they only offer 1-8 on their barrels and on their complete uppers.
Am I worring about nothing thanks.

Scott

[decodeddiesel]

Really it won't make much of a difference. 1/8 will stabilize a 77gr projectile no problem and that is probably the heaviest bullet you are going to use with a magazine fed 5.56.

[sac]

Thats what I was thinking, but wanted to make sure.

Thanks Scott

[rljatl]

You said clone. Depends on how true to the original you want to be. The real deal uses 1 in 7 twist with a tapered bore (like a Colt Python) and a chamber cut to match the Black Hills MK 262 ammo.

[Belmont31R]

Check out Centurion Arms for complete Mk12 uppers made with the same barrels mil MK12's are getting. They use all the correct parts in their builds.


I didn't get a complete upper from Centurion but am using one of their barrels.


http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/9d3d8376.jpg

[sac]

Thanks for the info. Nice rifle belmont

Scott

[ALCOAR]

You can build a mk 12 one of two ways......
1.) SPEC....
2.) Non-spec....

If you want a MUCH BETTER gun, drop the whole spec thing:)

[Belmont31R]

You can build a mk 12 one of two ways......
1.) SPEC....
2.) Non-spec....

If you want a MUCH BETTER gun, drop the whole spec thing:)



There are improvements but I don't think they are much better.


I'd go with a rifle length URX rail, and a Surefire reflex A2 mount. Mine also now has a Magpul MOE grip, and an ACS stock. My optic is also an improvement over the Leupold or Nightforce as is the optic mount. Ill never use an ARMS product...:p

But the base operating system from the barrel to the FCG are very solid. Just be sure to get a barrel with the spec gas port size. A lot of the issues people have had with the rifle length 18" is because they are using commercial spec barrels that don't always work 100% in all environmental conditions.

[decodeddiesel]

You can build a mk 12 one of two ways......
1.) SPEC....
2.) Non-spec....

If you want a MUCH BETTER gun, drop the whole spec thing:)

:confused:

OK, that is your opinion. Please explain to us what you would do "much better" than a spec MK12 MOD1? If it is a personal preference thing then please specify such. Honestly I think that building a truly better SPR than a real "spec" Crane MK12 is a tall order. I think the best you could do is a minor incremental improvement, maybe...

[sac]

Thanks for all the feedback. I have the barrel narrowed down between Centurion arms or the one from Bravo Co.. I did finally find the 10 page post on here that Templar started and I read every page. My next question is on a muzzle brake, since I live in a state that doesn't allow suppressors could i go with a surefire?

thanks Scott

[Belmont31R]

Thanks for all the feedback. I have the barrel narrowed down between Centurion arms or the one from Bravo Co.. I did finally find the 10 page post on here that Templar started and I read every page. My next question is on a muzzle brake, since I live in a state that doesn't allow suppressors could i go with a surefire?

thanks Scott



They both make an excellent barrel. I went with the Centurion because they are the same barrels real ones get, and I wanted a more clone approach than BCM offers.

[ALCOAR]

:confused:

OK, that is your opinion. Please explain to us what you would do "much better" than a spec MK12 MOD1? If it is a personal preference thing then please specify such. Honestly I think that building a truly better SPR than a real "spec" Crane MK12 is a tall order. I think the best you could do is a minor incremental improvement, maybe...

I will start with replacing the leupy with a NF and dropping the ARMS and replacing with a ADM/Larue/Bobro:)

[rljatl]

Consider the Nightforce high ultralight rings. Monty at Centurion recommends them. They are much lighter than a LaRure Mount. You can save close to half a pound by using the ultralight rings.

Disclosure: I've got the MK 12 Mod 1 from Centurion and it drives tacks. .75 MOA or better, depending on the shooter.

[Belmont31R]

Consider the Nightforce ultralight rings. Monty at Centurion recommends them. They are much lighter than a LaRure Mount. You can save close to half a pound by using the ultralight rings.



Standard rings don't give you enough eye relief with an AR...IMO.


They are nice rings but the LaRue provides for a much more comfortable head position. I already went through this with mine...:)

[rljatl]

Standard rings don't give you enough eye relief with an AR...IMO.


They are nice rings but the LaRue provides for a much more comfortable head position. I already went through this with mine...:)

Depends on the scope, doesn't it?

[Belmont31R]

Depends on the scope, doesn't it?



Maybe but most modern scopes are givining 3-4" in eye relief.



I started with the NF rings with a NF 2.5-10x32. It was usable but my head position was way back on the stock. Maybe with an A2 they would be ok but the A2 is too long for most people esp with body armor.


Now Im into the LaRue 1.5 SPR, and a SB 3-12x50, and its a lot more comfortable.

[rljatl]

I am using an A2. I see you're using the SOPMOD. Rifle length gas system? Which buffer are you using?

[Belmont31R]

I am using an A2. I see you're using the SOPMOD. Rifle length gas system? Which buffer are you using?




H1. I have only around 800rds through mine so far but have not had a single failure yet. Functioning has been fine, and Im shooting ~80% .223 loads through it.

[firemedic2000]

I found this post very helpful. This is one of my the first post on this forum, but I am a lifer on another I won't mention. I heard a lot good things about this forum though and though I'd visit. I just picked this up today at a great price. Here are pics and specs. It will be going on a colt lower with a Chip McCormick match trigger. I have to pick out a good stock now
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j264/firemedic2000/mk12upper.jpg

CMT Upper
CMT BCG / CH
Douglas 18" Air Gauged SPR Barrel SS 1/7 5.56mm
Larue 13.2 rail
VLTOR Gasblock
Troy BUIS
AAC 51t brake (torqued to spec)
Assorted panels

I think it will work out pretty good for what I need it for:D

[decodeddiesel]

I will start with replacing the leupy with a NF and dropping the ARMS and replacing with a ADM/Larue/Bobro:)

Spec MK12 MOD1 uses a NAVSPEC NF 2.5-10x24. I agree though, this is a serious improvement over the Leupy.

Many of the MK12s I have seen in the wild with the NF optics were wearing NF rings or the NF 1 piece base, which I would agree are far superior to the ARMS garbage.

I suppose I should have specified I meant a MK12 MOD1 with the NF optic initially.

[ALCOAR]

I wish I had one of those particular x24's marked "navspec"...seen a few on the civi market before.

Just to add a few changes to spec for me personally.....
Add a UBR, instead of the sopmod/a2
Add a Noveske 18" SS SPR instead of the Douglas
Swap the Ops Inc. for a AAC SPR/M4 can and mount.

I am not saying the above listed changes are vast improvements or really even improvements, however they are things that I personally would rather have on my MK 12 type gun.:)

[Rusty_Shackleford]

I found this post very helpful. This is one of my the first post on this forum, but I am a lifer on another I won't mention. I heard a lot good things about this forum though and though I'd visit. I just picked this up today at a great price. Here are pics and specs. It will be going on a colt lower with a Chip McCormick match trigger. I have to pick out a good stock now
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j264/firemedic2000/mk12upper.jpg

CMT Upper
CMT BCG / CH
Douglas 18" Air Gauged SPR Barrel SS 1/7 5.56mm
Larue 13.2 rail
VLTOR Gasblock
Troy BUIS
AAC 51t brake (torqued to spec)
Assorted panels

I think it will work out pretty good for what I need it for:D
That is a really nice upper! ;)

[Belmont31R]

Spec MK12 MOD1 uses a NAVSPEC NF 2.5-10x24. I agree though, this is a serious improvement over the Leupy.

Many of the MK12s I have seen in the wild with the NF optics were wearing NF rings or the NF 1 piece base, which I would agree are far superior to the ARMS garbage.

I suppose I should have specified I meant a MK12 MOD1 with the NF optic initially.



NF is no longer producing the X24 model...

[Belmont31R]

I wish I had one of those particular x24's marked "navspec"...seen a few on the civi market before.

Just to add a few changes to spec for me personally.....
Add a UBR, instead of the sopmod/a2
Add a Noveske 18" SS SPR instead of the Douglas
Swap the Ops Inc. for a AAC SPR/M4 can and mount.

I am not saying the above listed changes are vast improvements or really even improvements, however they are things that I personally would rather have on my MK 12 type gun.:)



The only difference between the nav-spec and the civilian version is the nav-spec gets ~10 hours of additional testing and CQ. At any rate like I just mentioned that model is no longer being produced.

The UBR is a solid stock but adds a lot of weight.

I don't think you are gaining anything by going with the Noveske. Both the spec barrel, and the Noveske are good shooters.

[decodeddiesel]

NF is no longer producing the X24 model...

Actually if I am not mistaken they have stated they will no longer be offering the x24 model for civilian sale, however they are still going to be producing the NAVSPEC x24 specifically to fulfill current and future procurement contracts.

Trident, the UBR is a nice stock for sure and I would absolutely prefer one to an A2, but it is a good deal heavier than a SOPMOD and it is a consideration if you are going to be lugging the thing around in the mountains fo A-stan for an extended period of time.

Similarly I fail to see how exactly a Noveske is going to be any sort of real improvement over the Douglas barrel. OK perhaps the intermediate gas system is "optimized" for an 18" barrel, field reports indicate the Douglas really doesn't seem to be having any sort of issues in this area, especially suppressed.

Also while yes the AAC can is slightly lighter than the Ops Inc, personally I wouldn't touch a single damn thing that company makes after seeing their little BS internet shenanigans over the years and knowing they are owned by Cerebus. Furthermore the AAC has no where near the track record of the Ops Inc. Just my humble opinion...

Honestly my original statement I believe still stands. I understand you may prefer some things due to a personal preference but I still think you would be hard pressed to build a "much better" MK12 MOD1 than a Crane Spec unit.

[ALCOAR]

NF is no longer producing the X24 model...

Good thing I bought one pretty recently then to match my x32;)

[ALCOAR]

Actually if I am not mistaken they have stated they will no longer be offering the x24 model for civilian sale, however they are still going to be producing the NAVSPEC x24 specifically to fulfill current and future procurement contracts.

Trident, the UBR is a nice stock for sure and I would absolutely prefer one to an A2, but it is a good deal heavier than a SOPMOD and it is a consideration if you are going to be lugging the thing around in the mountains fo A-stan for an extended period of time.

Similarly I fail to see how exactly a Noveske is going to be any sort of real improvement over the Douglas barrel. OK perhaps the intermediate gas system is "optimized" for an 18" barrel, field reports indicate the Douglas really doesn't seem to be having any sort of issues in this area, especially suppressed.

Also while yes the AAC can is slightly lighter than the Ops Inc, personally I wouldn't touch a single damn thing that company makes after seeing their little BS internet shenanigans over the years and knowing they are owned by Cerebus. Furthermore the AAC has no where near the track record of the Ops Inc. Just my humble opinion...

Honestly my original statement I believe still stands. I understand you may prefer some things due to a personal preference but I still think you would be hard pressed to build a "much better" MK12 MOD1 than a Crane Spec unit.

AAC has little to no shift in P.O.I. with the M.I.T.E.R. system, while OPs is great in this respect, the AAC clearly has less shift and as you noted it is lighter. I would never knock any of the crane parts short of the arms gear....NOT BECAUSE OF THE MAN...because of the inferior product the man makes. I try not to get caught up in the political ideologies and who sued who over what patent type issues...I buy strictly on a product's merit not a product's owner. One last thing the noveske and AAC do not require the special contouring by compass lake to accept the OPs and can.

[decodeddiesel]

AAC has little to no shift in P.O.I. with the M.I.T.E.R. system, while OPs is great in this respect, the AAC clearly has less shift and as you noted it is lighter. I would never knock any of the crane parts short of the arms gear....NOT BECAUSE OF THE MAN...because of the inferior product the man makes. I try not to get caught up in the political ideologies and who sued who over what patent type issues...I buy strictly on a product's merit not a product's owner.

Look dude, I'm not about to get into a pissing match over this. You like AAC, that's fine. Please tell me one single AAC can that is seeing front line use with the US Military and what the results have been. You can't because these isn't one. The SPR has absolutely zero ZERO combat record, where the Ops Inc literally has thousands of units in the field. Yes the AAC has some design improvements as you have noted, however who the hell knows how they will hold up to serious battlefield use.

Now this is my opinion, however, if a company does not have the professionalism to not participate in smear add campaigns, sell their products with flashy little tattoo'd girls, and generally conduct themselves as asses in public internet forums time and time again then I have a hard time trusting them to properly make a piece of equipment that I would be forced to trust my life to. This is not even mentioning the shady business practices they seems to constantly be engaging in, taking years to fulfill orders that were promised in weeks, whole batches of out of spec suppressors they have shipped to dealers, etc, etc, etc. The company stinks, and frankly I hope to hell that the .mil never issues a single AAC product to a single troop.

You make a very valid point, and normally I would try to avoid making a judgment on a piece of equipment based on my personal opinion on a company, however it is so damn in your face with AAC it is impossible to ignore.


One last thing the noveske and AAC do not require the special contouring by compass lake to accept the OPs and can.

Completely irrelevant.

[rljatl]

As far as I am concerned, if you choose not use the Ops Inc can and the MK 12 profile Douglas barrel, you are not building a Mk12. You may prefer another spec, but then it is not a MK 12.

The barrel was developed after much research. The chamber was cut specifically for the Mk 262 round. It uses a special tapered bore a la the Colt Python. The Ops Inc collar and muzzle device are part of the identifying features that make a MK 12 Mod 1 a MK12 Mod 1.

Feel free to build whatever you want. Just don't expect other people to agree that it is a MK12. Call it an SPR style rifle. :)

[ALCOAR]

Wow, didn't mean to rattle the cages...although when you discuss specs and mk 12's all the internet seals come out to play:)

I will leave the little mk 12 alone and bow out gracefully:)

[Warg]

Consider the Nightforce high ultralight rings. Monty at Centurion recommends them. They are much lighter than a LaRure Mount. You can save close to half a pound by using the ultralight rings.



A bit of a stretch- the 30 mm LaRue mount only weighs 6.8 oz. Amazon list the NF Ultralight rings at 5.6 oz, but that's the only published weight I've seen on these.

[decodeddiesel]

Wow, didn't mean to rattle the cages...although when you discuss specs and mk 12's all the internet seals come out to play:)

Nice one, so when you are clearly not in the right and you get called out on it you resort to name calling? Awesome, all I needed to know.

:rolleyes:

[Belmont31R]

Another reason I like LaRue mounts more for this mission is they come with steel inserts for the screws. On the NF rings you are screwing steel screws into AL threads.



Now I just wish LaRue would make an SPR mount with more than 10MOA down angle to it....:p

[organdonor]

Nice one, so when you are clearly not in the right and you get called out on it you resort to name calling? Awesome, all I needed to know.

:rolleyes:You're the one getting upset. He listed a few things he'd rather have on his "mk12 type rifle". If there's a pissing match to be had, you're the one trying to start it... he has given OPS credit where due; you're trying to write AAC off completely because they lack a military contract... IMO that is reminiscent of mall ninja logic.

[Belmont31R]

You're the one getting upset. He listed a few things he'd rather have on his "mk12 type rifle". If there's a pissing match to be had, you're the one trying to start it... he has given OPS credit where due; you're trying to write AAC off completely because they lack a military contract... IMO that is reminiscent of mall ninja logic.


He gave other reasons beside that. Quite a few actually. I, too, don't care for AAC as a company nor do I think their products are any better than anything else out there. I wouldn't care to use a can where the mount causes a loud PING! every time you shoot the gun. In fact I took off the Blackout mount I had because I couldn't stand it.



No need with the personal insults. I don't really think it has a place on this board, and its a quick way to get an otherwise informative thread locked.

[decodeddiesel]

You're the one getting upset. He listed a few things he'd rather have on his "mk12 type rifle". If there's a pissing match to be had, you're the one trying to start it... he has given OPS credit where due; you're trying to write AAC off completely because they lack a military contract... IMO that is reminiscent of mall ninja logic.

Post reported. Also check your PM.

[organdonor]

Post reported. Also check your PM.ur so mad lol

[organdonor]

He gave other reasons beside that. Quite a few actually. I, too, don't care for AAC as a company nor do I think their products are any better than anything else out there. I wouldn't care to use a can where the mount causes a loud PING! every time you shoot the gun. In fact I took off the Blackout mount I had because I couldn't stand it.



No need with the personal insults. I don't really think it has a place on this board, and its a quick way to get an otherwise informative thread locked.decoded is the only one calling names here; he just chooses to do it via private message.

edit: and I'll post my response to his PM here for posterity

Yes, I read the entire thread. You're the only one getting upset here. Was it really necessary to report my post? Calm down and grow up.

Also, learn to follow your own argument... you pretty much ended up agreeing with every improvement he suggested:

RE the suppressor: "yes the AAC can is slightly lighter than the Ops Inc"

RE the Noveske barrel: "OK perhaps the intermediate gas system is "optimized" for an 18" barrel"

RE the stock: "the UBR is a nice stock for sure and I would absolutely prefer one to an A2"

those are all your quotes... and you ended the specs argument by stating that "I suppose I should have specified I meant a MK12 MOD1 with the NF optic initially."

After that you continued to harp on AAC, after acknowledging it as the superior suppressor, for not having a military contract. Again, you're the only one getting upset here and the only one, afaik, resorting to name calling(I am not an "****ing AAC fanboy" as you put it in that lovely private message you sent).

[Belmont31R]

decoded is the only one calling names here; he just chooses to do it via private message.

edit: and I'll post my response to his PM here for posterity

Yes, I read the entire thread. You're the only one getting upset here. Was it really necessary to report my post? Calm down and grow up.

Also, learn to follow your own argument... you pretty much ended up agreeing with every improvement he suggested:

RE the suppressor: "yes the AAC can is slightly lighter than the Ops Inc"

RE the Noveske barrel: "OK perhaps the intermediate gas system is "optimized" for an 18" barrel"

RE the stock: "the UBR is a nice stock for sure and I would absolutely prefer one to an A2"

those are all your quotes... and you ended the specs argument by stating that "I suppose I should have specified I meant a MK12 MOD1 with the NF optic initially."

After that you continued to harp on AAC, after acknowledging it as the superior suppressor, for not having a military contract. Again, you're the only one getting upset here and the only one, afaik, resorting to name calling(I am not an "****ing AAC fanboy" as you put it in that lovely private message you sent).



There are pluses and minuses to every part.

Just because the AAC can is lighter doesn't mean overall its a superior product. The Brakeout mounts produce a distinctive ping. I wouldn't want my hypothetical Mk12 equipped guy letting everyone know he is there by that ping. It would be an easy sound to pickup, and target.


I would agree in a civilian setting there are improvements that can be made but they are not significant, and there is nothing wrong with the way military guns are setup sans the ARMS mounts (and LaRue mounts do show up from time to time). Preference in a product does not mean the non-preferred product is not fit for the job or does just as good of a job in a general sense. The stock doesn't really change anything. The barrel doesn't change anything. The optic could be improved upon but you can still put rounds on target with a Leupold or NF. Something is an improvement only if it changes the way the gun operates, and how effective it is. There is nothing wrong with the mil-spec barrel because the gun operates just fine with it. Going to a Noveske isn't going to improve the guns functioning as it functions just fine already. The UBR would add a significant amount of weight, and I didn't personally like the one I bought. It limits cheek position whereas the A2 and SOPMOD do not. You can shoot NTCH or all the way back on the stock if you want with those, and you cannot with the UBR.


I don't care about your PM's. Take it up with whoever sent it to you or a mod/staff if you want to. This is the AR forum not the vent your PM frustrations forum.

[organdonor]

There are pluses and minuses to every part.

Just because the AAC can is lighter doesn't mean overall its a superior product. The Brakeout mounts produce a distinctive ping. I wouldn't want my hypothetical Mk12 equipped guy letting everyone know he is there by that ping. It would be an easy sound to pickup, and target.


I would agree in a civilian setting there are improvements that can be made but they are not significant, and there is nothing wrong with the way military guns are setup sans the ARMS mounts (and LaRue mounts do show up from time to time). Preference in a product does not mean the non-preferred product is not fit for the job or does just as good of a job in a general sense. The stock doesn't really change anything. The barrel doesn't change anything. The optic could be improved upon but you can still put rounds on target with a Leupold or NF. Something is an improvement only if it changes the way the gun operates, and how effective it is. There is nothing wrong with the mil-spec barrel because the gun operates just fine with it. Going to a Noveske isn't going to improve the guns functioning as it functions just fine already. The UBR would add a significant amount of weight, and I didn't personally like the one I bought. It limits cheek position whereas the A2 and SOPMOD do not. You can shoot NTCH or all the way back on the stock if you want with those, and you cannot with the UBR.


I don't care about your PM's. Take it up with whoever sent it to you or a mod/staff if you want to. This is the AR forum not the vent your PM frustrations forum.He negated his own argument and is the one nit-picking; that's all I meant to point out. I have no horse in this race so I will argue no further. The only thing I take issue with is robbing a product of it's merits only because the company lacks a military contract... to say that that sort of logic is ignorant and reminiscent of mall ninja logic... well, I stand by that. It wasn't, however, meant as a direct insult toward decoded.

[Belmont31R]

He negated his own argument and is the one nit-picking; that's all I meant to point out. I have no horse in this race so I will argue no further. The only thing I take issue with is robbing a product of it's merits only because the company lacks a military contract... to say that that sort of logic is ignorant and reminiscent of mall ninja logic... well, I stand by that. It wasn't, however, meant as a direct insult toward decoded.



For us range ninjas gear qualified by the mil in combat has its own merits. There are conditions and abuses in the field you cannot duplicate in the civilian world. Care for it or don't that is the truth. No it doesn't automatically mean on product is superior to another but its just a different avenue for us to judge a product by that is unique in its own right.


I have enough issues with AAC outside of not having a mil contract that I don't need to purchase their cans. They don't have a mount that either isn't a brake or doesnt have a loud ping. They have had enough QC issues to take note of.

Lighter doesn't automatically mean better. The KAC NT4 is a heavy can, and doesn't reduce sound the best but its built like a tank, and can take abuse other cans cannot. Each person has to judge for themselves what their wants, desires, needs, etc are, and then make a decision on what would work best for them.

[firemedic2000]

That is a really nice upper! ;)

Thanks, I believe I will put a UBR stock on it and I looking at NF optics right now. nothing is set stone about that though. There are some really great scopes that can be had for a little less. I have never been known for skipping on parts though when it comes to building one of my own weapons though. You get what you pay for. I've got to get my reloading bench set up also to load some rounds for this puppy. I'm pretty excite about getting this to the range, but I have to get the parts I want so it will be right for me. The can is next. The ACC break is what came ome on the weapon. I like the design of the FH. That will change when I get my can though it will be an OPS INC ( just what I like) but that will come later. That being said though if someone wants to use a AAC it's their right. Some people like bleached blonds some people like real hot blonds. I married a real hot blond:D

[rljatl]

A bit of a stretch- the 30 mm LaRue mount only weighs 6.8 oz. Amazon list the NF Ultralight rings at 5.6 oz, but that's the only published weight I've seen on these.

Those weights are wrong. Common sense will tell you that the LaRue mount weighs more than 1.2oz more than the NF ultralite rings.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Damn guys, you'd think that someone was calling The Colonel queer and changed some of the eleven spices.

I've never been one to be slavish to the exact rifles and gear. When I think mk12, I think of the best way to smack targets as far as possible with a 5.56 gun, and Crane did the best job they could with what they had.

I use a JP 1x8 18inch upper with a G-trigger, Premier 3-15 mil-dot in a Larue mount. Heavier than a mk12, but I was all giggly shooting steel out past 400 yards.

SPR, MK12 mod this-n-that, I just know the sound it makes when it takes a man's life at 1000 yards.

Travis did some nice work with a Bushmaster with that crappy rail.

[Belmont31R]

Thanks, I believe I will put a UBR stock on it and I looking at NF optics right now. nothing is set stone about that though. There are some really great scopes that can be had for a little less. I have never been known for skipping on parts though when it comes to building one of my own weapons though. You get what you pay for. I've got to get my reloading bench set up also to load some rounds for this puppy. I'm pretty excite about getting this to the range, but I have to get the parts I want so it will be right for me. The can is next. The ACC break is what came ome on the weapon. I like the design of the FH. That will change when I get my can though it will be an OPS INC ( just what I like) but that will come later. That being said though if someone wants to use a AAC it's there right. Some people like bleached blonds some people like real hot blonds. I married a real hot blond:D



IMO if you are going to spend the cost to build a quality Mk12 clone or close to a clone some extra money on optics is worth it.


NF and Leupold are nice but scopes like SB are a whole new level...I don't regret switching from a NF to a SB at all, and should have done it from the beginning. Now the NF is on my dad's 22LR....

[ALCOAR]

Thanks, I believe I will put a UBR stock on it and I looking at NF optics right now. nothing is set stone about that though. There are some really great scopes that can be had for a little less. I have never been known for skipping on parts though when it comes to building one of my own weapons though. You get what you pay for. I've got to get my reloading bench set up also to load some rounds for this puppy. I'm pretty excite about getting this to the range, but I have to get the parts I want so it will be right for me. The can is next. The ACC break is what came ome on the weapon. I like the design of the FH. That will change when I get my can though it will be an OPS INC ( just what I like) but that will come later. That being said though if someone wants to use a AAC it's there right. Some people like bleached blonds some people like real hot blonds. I married a real hot blond:D

Your vision is pure pal, I kinda dig your style.......:)
http://i49.tinypic.com/2rh0dwp.jpg

[ALCOAR]

IMO if you are going to spend the cost to build a quality Mk12 clone or close to a clone some extra money on optics is worth it.


NF and Leupold are nice but scopes like SB are a whole new level...I don't regret switching from a NF to a SB at all, and should have done it from the beginning. Now the NF is on my dad's 22LR....

Congrats....you are first person to drop $1300 glass on a rimfire gun:confused: At least you made the point of how little respect you have for NF glass:)

You never miss the chance to do a little NF bashing...but your entitled to that opinion I guess....However MOST of us know your position and you do not need to insult the glass any further...the rimfire one takes the cake.

[firemedic2000]

IMO if you are going to spend the cost to build a quality Mk12 clone or close to a clone some extra money on optics is worth it.


NF and Leupold are nice but scopes like SB are a whole new level...I don't regret switching from a NF to a SB at all, and should have done it from the beginning. Now the NF is on my dad's 22LR....

Thanks for the info. I will definitely check SB out.:D

[Warg]

Those weights are wrong. Common sense will tell you that the LaRue mount weighs more than 1.2oz more than the NF ultralite rings.

Perhaps, but common sense should tell you that there's no way one can save a half of a pound given the LaRue mount weighs 0.425 pounds.

[firemedic2000]

Man i just priced the SB scopes and the one I want cost more than my PVS14. I'm afraid with what I have spent this month on weapons if I bought that I would not have my real hot blond any more:D:D:D

[firemedic2000]

Your vision is pure pal, I kinda dig your style.......:)
http://i49.tinypic.com/2rh0dwp.jpg

That is a good lookin weapon and looks like it could drive tacks

[sac]

frommycolddeadhand,

do you realy like your 1in8 barrel with the 77 gr bullets? Iam realy leaning for the barrel that Bravo Co. sells but the 1in8 is hanging me up.
I think I will call him and ask why he chose tha tinstead of 1ni7.

thanks all Scott

[ALCOAR]

That is a good lookin weapon and looks like it could drive tacks

Thanks;)

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

frommycolddeadhand,

do you realy like your 1in8 barrel with the 77 gr bullets? Iam realy leaning for the barrel that Bravo Co. sells but the 1in8 is hanging me up.
I think I will call him and ask why he chose tha tinstead of 1ni7.

thanks all Scott

Mines a JP, but I do have a BCM 410 SS 16inch too, I just haven't shot it as much. With out getting into a twist war on top of a MK12 discussion, I think that 1x8 is more than fine. (Conventional wisdom is that 1x7 is for longer tracer rounds- shoot many tracer rounds? I'm sure there is a post by Molon about 1x8 and 1x7 and stabilizing 75-77 rounds). I'd worry more about the quality of the barrel than the twist, IMHO.

My JP just seems to like 77SMKs in 223 loads better than 75s in 556, I don't know why, and I have only done 20-30 rounds of each to get to that end point. If people were shooting back at me, I'd take the round with better terminal performance, since outside of a fully supported position, the difference in rounds accuracy will be slight.

Had great fun at the magpul dynamics precision class. I tuned my 400 yard dope as I walked rounds to the 4 inch 'heart' on a sillhoutte target. Banged that door open, which only left a 1x4 inch reset exposed, and with my next shot hit that reset. Not saying I could hit the reset every shot, but I hit it that shot ;) .

http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad298/MagpulDynamics6-10PuebloClasses/MagpulDynamics6-10PRPueblo/MMR_2010_06_15_3384crop.jpg

The scope is a little much, it will eventually go on a .308 bolt gun. I like buying glass before the rifle, it is tough to skimp on a rifle, but there is always cheaper glass. Buy nice glass first and you won't put a crappy rifle under it. The BCM upper with VTAC TRX is in the background. It had a TA11 on it that I'm still getting used to. Seems like the zero moves around.

[ALCOAR]

Mines a JP, but I do have a BCM 410 SS 16inch too, I just haven't shot it as much. With out getting into a twist war on top of a MK12 discussion, I think that 1x8 is more than fine. (Conventional wisdom is that 1x7 is for longer tracer rounds- shoot many tracer rounds? I'm sure there is a post by Molon about 1x8 and 1x7 and stabilizing 75-77 rounds). I'd worry more about the quality of the barrel than the twist, IMHO.

My JP just seems to like 77SMKs in 223 loads better than 75s in 556, I don't know why, and I have only done 20-30 rounds of each to get to that end point. If people were shooting back at me, I'd take the round with better terminal performance, since outside of a fully supported position, the difference in rounds accuracy will be slight.

Had great fun at the magpul dynamics precision class. I tuned my 400 yard dope as I walked rounds to the 4 inch 'heart' on a sillhoutte target. Banged that door open, which only left a 1x4 inch reset exposed, and with my next shot hit that reset. Not saying I could hit the reset every shot, but I hit it that shot ;) .

http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad298/MagpulDynamics6-10PuebloClasses/MagpulDynamics6-10PRPueblo/MMR_2010_06_15_3384crop.jpg

The scope is a little much, it will eventually go on a .308 bolt gun. I like buying glass before the rifle, it is tough to skimp on a rifle, but there is always cheaper glass. Buy nice glass first and you won't put a crappy rifle under it. The BCM upper with VTAC TRX is in the background. It had a TA11 on it that I'm still getting used to. Seems like the zero moves around.

That is a sexy rig for sure:p I bet that magpul precision class was a ton of fun.

I agree the last thing we need is a twist war.....I will say that the more time passes the more I see the logical and in many cases the right choice for rolling with a 1/8th......The reason I find the 1/8ths more acceptable as time goes on is because although I wish I could shoot my beloved TAP T2s T1s and BH's mk 262 and 68gr. match hp every time out, its just too hard to come by consistantly for the fair price, thus making the 1/8th the more rational choice for any non-mil or le role...Imho, the 1/8ths will give you a much nicer range of ammo that groups great, just not those ultra sub groups that a 1/7 with a mk262 or Tap 75gr. hp round will do. Kinda a trade off.

Current MRP SS barrels are 1/7ths like mine...however LMT first came out with their 2 tack driving SS MRP 5.56 barrel models in 1/8ths.....People love them and Edwin907 has one in the 18" SPR model and we have compared groups and ammo between the two and from what I can tell they both are exceptional shooters.

[Belmont31R]

Congrats....you are first person to drop $1300 glass on a rimfire gun:confused: At least you made the point of how little respect you have for NF glass:)

You never miss the chance to do a little NF bashing...but your entitled to that opinion I guess....However MOST of us know your position and you do not need to insult the glass any further...the rimfire one takes the cake.



I put it on there because I had the scope for sale, and had no interest on it even at a good price. Actually one guy emailed me about it, and asked about its low light performance because he had heard the NXS has poor low light capability. I was honest with him about my opinion, and never heard from him again.

Since when is pointing out deficiencies in a scope or product bashing it? Im not the first person, and nor will I be the last who has bought a NF product who ended up being disappointed. In fact there is a thread in the optics forum where someone returned a NF scope because they didn't like it. I have no ill will towards NF but there are better products out there just like you said earlier in this thread...there are improvements to the issue kit with the Mk12.

[firemedic2000]

Well just ordered a UBR stock. It won't pull my beard like the CTR does.:D Got it for 220.00 NIB shipped. I have a Hi LUX CMR which is a really good scope for the money, but I want something better for this weapon. I'm going to hand load the ammo for this one also. Man I can hardly wait ti get this in. It will be here Tues. I gave 1071.00 for this upper. I could not have built it for that:D

[ALCOAR]

Congrats pal you will love the UBR and its perfect imho for your sweet new build. My favorite stock by far, and for any long railed gun I think its the ideal choice.

[firemedic2000]

Got all my parts in will post pics later of rifle

[firemedic2000]

My two newest builds SPR and Colt Socom with 14.5 heavy barrel
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j264/firemedic2000/DSCN0909.jpg

I still haven't got everything I want for the SPR it's a piece of art still being worked on:D I blame you guys for me working on it though. I never should have started reading the post on SPRs;)

[ALCOAR]

Very nice, that sucker turned out beautiful;)

You made it to the range yet to see how it shoots?

[firemedic2000]

Going in the morning with 300 rd of Black Hill 77 gr Serria Match King and 200 rds of new M855 and a few hundred of m193 . That will put a little hole in my stock. I just ordered a reloading setup though
After zeroing I will shoot the 600 yd steel gongs. I little known secret when I was in the 1st ranger batt we used the leatherwood Hi Lux scopes on our M21 sniper rifles and we could cover the shot groups with a dime at 300 meters. I'm trying out the Leatherwood Hi Lux CMR with zero lock (my budget was within 1200.00 for a scope). I really like the look and feel and to me the optics look really great at 400 yds from by deck it's crystal clear. The bottom rifle the M4 is dead on at 300 meters with the Aimpoint M4 and 3X it has a short stroke piston kit in it. If I can figure out how to put one in the SPR I will. It runs a lot cooler and cleaner. I'll post some pic of the targets at 100,200,300, yds

[O4TM3AL]

I will start with replacing the leupy with a NF and dropping the ARMS and replacing with a ADM/Larue/Bobro:)

Trident what do you have against Leupold, they're one of the best optic manufacturers around.

[ALCOAR]

It's not that I have anything against the Leupy MK4's, it's just that the MK4 has been long surpassed in both build construction and technical specifications and options.

I prob. sound like a MK 12 hater or something however I am the furthest from that position, I just think its ridiculous when people build a true clone gun like a MK 12 using the true spec parts, and then somehow think that it cannot be improved or enhanced upon and that it's by in large perfect. As spec'd in 2011, the MK12 is very, very far from perfect imo. Still a neat gun for a collection though:)

[O4TM3AL]

OK, I'll buy that, let us not forget however that you could do a whole hell of a lot worse than a Leupold, Not to mention the fact that a nice Leupold optic will surpass most, if not all the daily needs most people will ever need met. I didn't mean to offend, and I doubt you would be on this site if you hated any variant of the AR platform ;).

PS, your repertoire of optic choices is nonetheless exquisite :D