View Full Version : USP 9mm: Stainless or HE (Black)?
I've found a stainless USP 9mm. I'm partial to stainless and am strongly considering picking it up tomorrow morning, but I haven't seen much about them. Total cost out the door would be $840. I can get the Hostile Environment (all black) version for $787.
I know that with AR barrels, stainless tends to wear quicker. What about with pistol slides? Again, I'm partial to the corrosion resistance and the fact that the finish will be less affected by holster carry (should I ever carry it) and show less wear from overall handling.
Any opinions or insights? Thanks!
I love the SS slides......i do not own one however i am on the lookout myself for a uspc in 9mm with the SS frame. The fullsize usp's are a bit boxy for my tastes but that is just my tastes. I would imagine they show far less holster wear than a blued slide. Good luck pal and if you get it please post some pics of that beauty. Try in the HK forum at the other place as well, some of those guys are absolute aficionado's;)
I can't say there is any draw backs on the stainless, other than if you like the black finish better. If holster wear will bother you, I would get the stainless.
The carbon steel slides (and all barrels) are Tuftrided/Melonited/Tenifered so you lose some fantastic wear resistance, toughness and salt water corrosion. I believe the stainless will wear well but it won't/can't wear as well as the carbon steel slide.
For what it's worth, all my two-tone SIGs have shown holster wear on the naked stainless (isn't that fun to say?) slides--the wear points tend to get polished, almost to a mirror finish. Anything you carry will show personality, and I read somewhere that "chicks dig holster wear" (still hoping it's true). I personally prefer all black guns, but I don't think you're at a disadvantage with either finish, unless your A.O. is high humidity or your gun will be around salt water a lot--then the tennifer finish would probably be better.
Either way, post pictures.
gtmtnbiker98
06-25-10, 08:43
I own a USPc .40 Stainless, date code AK. I bought it as soon as the latest batch of stainless USPs were imported. I really like it and it is for sure a good looking pistol. The stainless steel slides are as durable as any other stainless steel pistol and the only negative that I have is that the slide is slick and hard to grasp when manipulating the slide.
As for holster wear, if you carry it and shoot it, every gun will wear and show character marks in time. It's a part of gun ownership. The carbon steel, HE treated pistols are also rust resistant and have the benefit of being nitro caubeurized (sp?) which is a metal treatment, not a finish that inhibits rust formation. After all, everything can rust, including Tenifer (sp?) and Melonite treated metal.
The one thing to consider is that if you like the stainless, better get it now. There isn't going to be anymore and the stainless USP was discontinued in 2005 and this last batch was created to get rid of the remaining slides. That is the main thing to consider when making your decision. I for one prefer the HE finish and only bought a stainless due to the lack of availability and future inability to purchase a "new" stainless USP.
Best of luck.
I own a USPc SS 40> I bought it because I like the look. I have over 3K rounds thru it. Plus I haven't cleaned it. Plus I'll be carrying it later today in a Comp Tac Paddle. Then off too the Range.
Moose-Knuckle
06-25-10, 09:31
Any drawbacks to the Stainless USP 9mm vs the Blued / Hostile Environment Version?
None other that the SS gleamig in the sun giving away your postition. :D
So I guess there is no hope for my Stainless HK45? :D
None other that the SS gleamig in the sun giving away your postition. :D
lol. I know you were kidding, but I seriously want to slap people who bring this up as a "true concern."
None other that the SS gleamig in the sun giving away your postition. :D
Lets see my USPC SS 40 is in my Paddle Holster concealed. The BG doesn't know what I have until I shoot his butt.
Anyone else?
I've taken the last few days to look up the HE finish and it seems that light surface rusting is quite common. I typically like stainless for its corrosion resistance and was told the HE would fare better. However, this doesn't seem to be the case...
gtmtnbiker98
06-28-10, 10:42
Anyone else?
I've taken the last few days to look up the HE finish and it seems that light surface rusting is quite common. I typically like stainless for its corrosion resistance and was told the HE would fare better. However, this doesn't seem to be the case...You are correct, IMO, stainless will wear better than ordinance grade (insert carbon) steel. However, all steel components require routine maintenance in order to prevent corrosion.
You are correct, IMO, stainless will wear better than ordinance grade (insert carbon) steel. However, all steel components require routine maintenance in order to prevent corrosion.
What I find confusing is that the HE finish is "proven" by military agencies to be near impervious to corrosion in hostile environments, yet in-depth research shows light surface rusting is common. To me, that doesn't quite make sense. The HE finish is supposed to be Nitrogen-"ized" steel (as opposed to carbon), so the fact that the surface rusts relatively easy doesn't follow logically. I'm wanting to like the HE finish over stainless, but if stainless will indeed wear and resist corrosion better, I can't find a reason not to get it. It's a shame, because the HE finish is $125 cheaper.
Any insight?
Hunter Rose
06-28-10, 14:09
Out of curiosity where did your research give you reports that rust is common on HE treated USP slides? Just wondering because I haven't seen that as a complaint, usually it's that the black portion of the finish wears quickly and silver steel shows through.
My sample of 3 USPs have been very corrosion resistant. The Heinie sights w/ QWIK cut are another story entirely.
Out of curiosity where did your research give you reports that rust is common on HE treated USP slides? Just wondering because I haven't seen that as a complaint, usually it's that the black portion of the finish wears quickly and silver steel shows through.
My sample of 3 USPs have been very corrosion resistant. The Heinie sights w/ QWIK cut are another story entirely.
Most of the reports were from various civvy end-users. I'd have to go through my browser history to pull them up, but summarized:
- One guy had his rust in less than 24 hours after shooting it and leaving it in the trunk in Florida weather
- Another had his rust in a weeks time from damp, fired brass being in the same padded case as his gun
- Another had his show signs of surface rust on the extractor and hammer
Those were the three most prominent reports. There were others, but all reports had it in common that the slide would rust if not cleaned and put away dirty. Many other users reported that the HE finish shows holster-wear rather easily. Now, I could understand that for traditional carbon-steel and hence why I would go with stainless. However, the HE is reputed to be corrosion proof and the above statements say otherwise. Cleaning or not, I want the most corrosion-resistance I can afford. I can understand regular steel rusting, but as a material designed for hostile environment conditions, I've seen too many doubting it.
Hunter Rose
06-28-10, 18:41
Most of the reports were from various civvy end-users. I'd have to go through my browser history to pull them up, but summarized:
- One guy had his rust in less than 24 hours after shooting it and leaving it in the trunk in Florida weather
- Another had his rust in a weeks time from damp, fired brass being in the same padded case as his gun
- Another had his show signs of surface rust on the extractor and hammer
Those were the three most prominent reports. There were others, but all reports had it in common that the slide would rust if not cleaned and put away dirty. Many other users reported that the HE finish shows holster-wear rather easily. Now, I could understand that for traditional carbon-steel and hence why I would go with stainless. However, the HE is reputed to be corrosion proof and the above statements say otherwise. Cleaning or not, I want the most corrosion-resistance I can afford. I can understand regular steel rusting, but as a material designed for hostile environment conditions, I've seen too many doubting it.
Hmm, without more direct evidence I'm not sure I believe it's a common widespread problem or failing in the HE finish. Three isolated incidents do not make a widespread problem, since there are a ton of USPs out there in service in the US, Germany, Greece, etc.
For me, I've taken my USP through a 3 day EAG carbine course where it rained/soaked the pistol everyday. I did nothing to it as far as PM other than wiping the water from the exterior. I experienced zero corrosion and this is in NW Texas/Louisiana humidity. I've had parkerized 1911's rust after mere handling. So in my experience of 3 USPs the HE finish works as advertised.
I'm not discounted the sources you cite, it just doesn't seem like a widespread/common problem, more like really shitty (for the pistol owners) isolated incidences.
I think either USP will work and it's personal preference. I don't think there is a huge difference between the two to really matter in the long run, so you should just pick whichever you personally prefer, and then to hedge your bets, make sure you don't leave it dripping wet in your trunk!
Hunter Rose
06-28-10, 18:48
I also understand your want for the best corrosion resistance. My take is the HE finish offers better resistance than the naked stainless. Most of the complaints I have seen espoused on the internet are of the black finish wearing, so people think the slide is no longer protected, but as others have stated, the metal treatment for the HE finish happens before the slide is blackened, so even with holster wear it still has corrosion resistant properties.
To muddy the waters, there was a poster on TOS posting pics/complaining about the lack of corrosion resistance of the stainless USP. This was maybe 6 months or so ago. Stainless rusts too, and then people were pushing the HE finish. Life sucks sometimes and metal rusts. Either way, the USP is a fine pistol, and I think you will be happy with it.
Black is better.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c328/phazuka/HPIM0517.jpg
What I find confusing is that the HE finish is "proven" by military agencies to be near impervious to corrosion in hostile environments, yet in-depth research shows light surface rusting is common. To me, that doesn't quite make sense. The HE finish is supposed to be Nitrogen-"ized" steel (as opposed to carbon), so the fact that the surface rusts relatively easy doesn't follow logically. I'm wanting to like the HE finish over stainless, but if stainless will indeed wear and resist corrosion better, I can't find a reason not to get it. It's a shame, because the HE finish is $125 cheaper.
Any insight?
Applying ferritic nitrocarburization on stainless can and is done (Smith & Wesson M&P pistols) but the results are not as tough, wear resistant or corrosion resistant as applying the same process to carbon steel.
The "HE" coating that HK markets is the DuPont-supplied polymeric coating that is applied on top of the slide. In the user's manual of the P30 they call out "ferritic nitrocarburization" by name.
Thanks for the replies, guys. I ended up going with the stainless USP 9F. I ordered it today and I should have it by next weekend. Pics to follow. Thanks!
Sweet I love stainless.
I just picked up my USP 9mm (HE) this Wednesday. Need to take it out to the range now.
Out of curiosity where did your research give you reports that rust is common on HE treated USP slides? Just wondering because I haven't seen that as a complaint, usually it's that the black portion of the finish wears quickly and silver steel shows through.
My sample of 3 USPs have been very corrosion resistant. The Heinie sights w/ QWIK cut are another story entirely.
what's up with the Heinies? i'm planning on getting them as well, don't they hold up well?
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