Infrared Laser

[rolltide13]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but will someone please explain infrared laser/ illuminators to me, I have seen them on civilian AR's recently and it has piqued my interest. I am think of something along the lines of this http://www.tactical-store.com/ts-ld-ls-dbal-a2.html. I am also interested in the ones made by Insight like the peq-2a and peq15. Again sorry if this is a redundant question i searched the site and google and nothing came up.

[Caeser25]

You can only see them with night vision. The ir illuminator is laser based unlike a flashlight that uses a bulb or led and can reach aloooooooooot farther.

Individual sales are there and it is not illegal to own one yet as long as it is not stolen property. You're gonna pay a pretty penny for one. Sales by the manufacturer and dealers are regulated by the FDA :rolleyes: because it can damage the eye and you cannot see it. New sales are limited to .Mil and Leos. There some ir lasers out there from China but you never know the quality you're gonna get. You can also retrofit a regular laser with an ir laser diode. Not sure about the retrofitting of an ir illuminator though...

I can pass a background check, spend $800+ for a rifle, another $1,200-$2k+ for Night Vision equipment but cannot buy a "laser":D that costs another $1,000++ because it can harm me :mad:

[Belmont31R]

Yes I never got the idea behind restricting a laser that goes on a gun because used incorrectly it might hurt someone. So can the gun its going on, and that can do way more damage than a laser.



Anyways yeah you can only buy one second hand, and the manufacturer will not likely warranty the item. They go for sometimes thousands of dollars esp for newer models like the PEQ15. Quite a few are stolen mil items, and if they trace it back to you not only will you be out the unit but out the money you paid, too.


Id love to have one, and get into NV but I aint gonna pay 2-4k for a PEQ 15, and another 3-4k for a quality PVS14 or even more for a UNS.

[JSantoro]

Using a 3a/3R classification laser on a gun for aiming purposes is only one application among thousands for the things. The restriction actually has nothing-to-very little to do with that particular use, and was absolutely not the impetus for it.

As for retrofitting, a laser diode is a laser diode. Only difference between an aim laser and an illuminator is the beam divergence (think "cone of fire," or the angle of the produced beam).

[blade_68]

IR laser is used as a aiming tool and to mark/direct fire on targets and such.
IR iluminator is used to be better able to id targets in NVG/ NVDs. they can be a
force multipler due to some E" forces not having Night Vision Devises.

I'd realy like to still have the ones like I was issued but I don't need one.

[bkb0000]

you don't need to spend a billion on a (probably stolen) PEQ to get some good NV action going... an IR filter for your surefire and a headset is all you need. the lasers are more for target designation in FoF situations... if you don't roll with a crew, there's not much use.

[Titleist]

you don't need to spend a billion on a (probably stolen) PEQ to get some good NV action going... an IR filter for your surefire and a headset is all you need. the lasers are more for target designation in FoF situations... if you don't roll with a crew, there's not much use.

Ben, not sure if I agree with you there, and in no way am I saying IR rigs SHOULD cost a ton. But there's a difference between being able to shoot in the dark, and being able to HIT what you're aiming at in the dark.

Even at 25yds, firing against shoot/no-shoot targets, an IR illuminator (especially not a filter on a light) isn't going to do the deed reliably enough. Even a PEQ, which is built as a designator for units to direct helo fire and other units, is still an invaluable tool as an infantryman-based system.

I'm not speaking from any military background, and I obviously say this with only about 3 years of night shooting under my belt. I've shot with head mounted rigs, weapon based rigs, and I always end up 90/10 on head vs weapon. And with a good IR designator the ability to make 300-500yd hits, pick the rifle up, book it to another firing position, are all things aided and made possible by a system that avoids getting mudsucked in to the NOD on the gun. And to do that an IR laser is really a powerful tool.

Yes it's primarily for designation on a bigger scale, but it's user on a larger rifle-based one is still a great thing to have.

[JSantoro]

And with a good IR designator the ability to make 300-500yd hits,...

The military ones have always been capable of this in the LO power setting, so it's not a matter of finding a laser that can do this, it a matter of finding an I2 device that can see that far. There's nothing special about an aim laser making it that distance

The GenIII tubed -14 and 7B/D can't...and the GenII tubed commercially available stuff most certainly can't...see and positively identify a man-sized target at that distance, even under "ideal" low-light conditions. Not without help, which means a very robust IR flood (IZLID or filtered Surefire or the like), a cheat marker on a target (IR chemlight, Krill, strobe), etc. Even the military still advocates putting a 300m zero on their MFAL devices, despite the fact that they can't see their targets out to that distance with normal I2 devices, and that the bullet is, with that zero, about 8" over LOS at the extreme distance they CAN see....

Even the "duty experts" are stupid on these systems. Without arguing for or against whether or not civvies "should" have access to this stuff (they're not my customers, would have to be paid to care less), I can still shudder to think of the inevitable carnage that would result if they did simply based on what the current crop of spotlighting Fudd morons already do. The ones in the rural/semi-rural areas I've lived in were bad enough with normal spotlights in the hands of the Hatfields and McCoys and Sheriff Roscoe and his dog Flash. Suburban Biff with an IR capability would still be largely untrained, but would now be able to see and shoot at stuff he STILL can't identify at night. No thanks

From a cost-effectiveness standpoint, the civvie user is better served sticking with white light and visible lasers, as are currently available. Failing that, getting an Aimpoint with NV settings, an IR flood/filtered flashlight and an open-market I2 device is a worthwhile capability, say out to about 50m or so. What I'd call an "80% solution," meaning pretty good without being either perfect or ridiculously pricey.

Why anybody with a gram of critical thought capability would think of that as an ideal HD setup based on how long it'd take to don the I2 device and switch it on is beyond me, though. Whether or not one agrees with how MFAL and I2 devices are priced, they are priced as they are and have the restrictions in place that they do. That's the world. You deal with it.

[bkb0000]

my point was basically from the bad-breath-contact-in-the-hallway perspective. with pvs7/peq2s, i remember being instructed (right or wrong) to not even activate the IRL at CQB distance. we were told it was nothing more than a distraction, and were left with basically point-shooting. i know, times have changed...

i agree that for real and true dark combat, pvs/peq is necessary. but if we're talking about engagements farther than 10-20m, sector firing positions, and the like- we're back into the realm of FoF. these aren't situations where you find yourself in the home-defense realm.

i would, however, put myself in the camp of "do it right, or dont do it at all." this is why i personally have ZERO nv capability. white light will handle any situation i find myself in, as a home-owner. but if a guy insists on having some NV capability, the peq, depending on your goals, isn't necessarily necessary, or even all that useful, for the money.