View Full Version : Noob question...M4 feed ramps? Do I need them?
Ok I did a search and didnt find anything specific to M4 feed ramps.
Here is what I think I know? M4 feed ramps were initially developed for the M4 because the shorter distance with the gas block under select fire caused the BCG to cycle faster. So fast that the BCG would actually cycle faster than the mag spring could feed the rounds...and cause a malfunction.
Is this correct?
Now if my rifle has "rifle" ramps, if the above is correct, I am guessing I dont need M4 feed ramps since I am not shooting in full auto or burst?
I dont have an AR yet but I am just trying to learn more before I buy. I have read the chart and the suggested 4 links from another thread for noobies but I didnt see anything on M4 feed ramps?
they cost nothing, and might someday prevent you from wishing you'd had them.. so there's no reason not to get them.
you generally dont really get a say in the matter, though... basically all the good manufacturers have them, and dont offer a non-m4 version.
So are you saying if an AR15 doesnt have M4 feed ramps, regular rifle ramps will cause problems?
I already know I want them, but do I need them?
Gee. I did a search and look what I came up with. IMHO you should have them if you are using an M4 style barrel with feedramps cut in the barrel extension.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=193&highlight=feedramps
So are you saying if an AR15 doesnt have M4 feed ramps, regular rifle ramps will cause problems?
I already know I want them, but do I need them?
no... i didn't say that. i said "might someday prevent you from wishing you had them," and i meant it literally.... maybe someday a round will come in a little too low, and you'll never know it, because you have m4 ramps.
you're not likely to have problems without them... you're just slightly less likely to have problems with them.
Excellent info there.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=193&highlight=feedramps
Two years ago Larue was still offering their billet upper w/o M4 feed ramps. Not sure about now.
Although the chance your M4 feed ramps would come into play on a semi auto rifle may be low, for resale purposes it would be good to have M4 feed ramps as the market seems to prefer them.
Failure2Stop
06-25-10, 08:35
Two years ago Larue was still offering their billet upper w/o M4 feed ramps. Not sure about now.
I got a LaRue upper with M4 feedramps, had to wait quite a while for it to be available. Why did I wait so long to get something I knew I wanted and had the money to get? Because I couldn't get the barrel I wanted without M4 feedramps cut into it.
Before someone pipes up, I did not want to mix a ramped barrel with a non ramped upper- while it should be no less reliable than a non-ramped assembly- it is not the same and has more places for crap to accumulate. It was my choice, a lot of money, and I wanted it a certain way.
Gee. I did a search and look what I came up with. IMHO you should have them if you are using an M4 style barrel with feedramps cut in the barrel extension.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=193&highlight=feedramps
Thank you for the link. And btw, when I typed in M4 feed ramps in the search, that thread did not come up for what ever reason? I wouldnt have made a thread about this if I had found it in a search.
chavez_e_chavez
06-25-10, 11:46
anybody have the link that shows all the major manufactures and if they have m-4 feed ramps or not??? As stated before, the major companys offer them..
I got a LaRue upper with M4 feedramps, had to wait quite a while for it to be available. Why did I wait so long to get something I knew I wanted and had the money to get? Because I couldn't get the barrel I wanted without M4 feedramps cut into it.
Before someone pipes up, I did not want to mix a ramped barrel with a non ramped upper- while it should be no less reliable than a non-ramped assembly- it is not the same and has more places for crap to accumulate. It was my choice, a lot of money, and I wanted it a certain way.
LaRue gave me the option of with or without M4 feedramps on the upper that I ordered from them.
Logan;
If you looked at those links I posted for you yesterday on teh other thread; specifically "the Chart" of manufacturer comparisons, you should have been able to find a plethora of info on the M4 style feed ramps. Part of the chart is an explanation of each item listed on the chart and somewhat of why it is desireable. Make sure to click the google link to the current chart and it has tabs at the bottom with tons of info to go over.
Opt for the M4 style feed ramps, they increase the over all reliability of the rifle and that is always a good thing!!! It has been opined that they do decrease accuracy a miniscule amount. But who cares, reliability>Accuracy every time; if the gun won't reliably cycle, who cares how accurate it "could" be?
Unless it is a major factor in your decision as far as manufacturer/model is concerned, just get them for the added reliability.
Most good M4/AR15/M16 come standard with them, all the models I looked at as potential purchases came standard with M4 feed ramps There is really no reason to exclude them as it is not expensive to do.
ge_traveler
06-25-10, 16:30
Thank you for the link. And btw, when I typed in M4 feed ramps in the search, that thread did not come up for what ever reason? I wouldnt have made a thread about this if I had found it in a search.
Logan,
Try searching this way. In Google, type in:
site:m4carbine.net m4 feedramps
This method works great and I usually have good results. Next time, when searching for a topic, just replace m4 feedramps in the above line with what ever you are interested in researching. Give it a try and see how it works for you.
anybody have the link that shows all the major manufactures and if they have m-4 feed ramps or not??? As stated before, the major companys offer them..
There is a sticky in this subforum that says comparison chart for AR manufacturers. Or something of that nature. That is what you are looking for.
If I already owned a carbine without M4 feed ramps that I was otherwise satisfied with I would not sell it just for one with M4 feed ramps. I also would not pass a good deal on a carbine without M4 feed ramps, but it would have to be a good deal.
Buying a new carbine I want M4 feed ramps absent the good deal exception. As others have posted many times before "It is better to have and not need than to need and not have."
Here's a purely informational image to help you understand the application of feed ramps and their applications.
http://ar15barrels.com/tech/feedramps.jpg
Thank you all for the great info. Being a noob with AR's can really hurt your brain in the beginning. I am 40 years old but feel like a kid with a new gaming console trying to learn all this stuff.
So not having M4 feed ramps is not a deal breaker if the gun is a good deal. As someone already mentioned, our troops have thousands of rifles without M4 feed ramps right now so its not the end of the world for the average Joe. But get them if you have a choice.
...reliability>Accuracy every time; if the gun won't reliably cycle, who cares how accurate it "could" be?To put this into perspective, this is a matter of trading a bit of accuracy for a bit of reliability.
It can also be said "if it can't hit the target, who cares how reliable it "could" be? A good rifle delivers reliability, accuracy and power.
From my limited experience, I want my carbine to have M4 feed ramps. From what I understand they have been tested enough to show an actual improvement in feed reliability. I haven't seen any actual data that the ramps have a negative affect on accuracy
To put this into perspective, this is a matter of trading a bit of accuracy for a bit of reliability.
It can also be said "if it can't hit the target, who cares how reliable it "could" be? A good rifle delivers reliability, accuracy and power.
From my limited experience, I want my carbine to have M4 feed ramps. From what I understand they have been tested enough to show an actual improvement in feed reliability. I haven't seen any actual data that the ramps have a negative affect on accuracy
If thats the case then where is the data that shows anything on M4 feed ramps? Good or bad? or the same?
If its a preference based on logical deduction, I can understand that. (the pictures are great for that). But if its a preference based on scientific study... then just show me the data. Its gotta be on the internet somewhere right?
This is M4carbine.net where nobody says..."just take my word for it" like they do over at AR15.com. lol.:D
If thats the case then where is the data that shows anything on M4 feed ramps? Good or bad? or the same?
If its a preference based on logical deduction, I can understand that. (the pictures are great for that). But if its a preference based on scientific study... then just show me the data. Its gotta be on the internet somewhere right?
This is M4carbine.net where nobody says..."just take my word for it" like they do over at AR15.com. lol.:DPoint taken. I haven't seen any such data other than "it's spec'ed by .mil because it's supposed to alleviate feed problems in M4 carbines"
DaBears_85
06-26-10, 14:32
Logan,
Try searching this way. In Google, type in:
site:m4carbine.net m4 feedramps
This method works great and I usually have good results. Next time, when searching for a topic, just replace m4 feedramps in the above line with what ever you are interested in researching. Give it a try and see how it works for you.
That's cool, thanks for the tip. It really streamlines the search process.
Logan,
You're missing the point. Rifles don't have them because they don't need them. The M4 has them because of the potential for rounds to hang up. If you are purchasing an M4 type weapon and it has an upper receiver with feedcuts or the barrel is an M4 type you are better off getting the right stuff. As it was mentioned before it doesn't cost extra to get the right configuration.
Thank you all for the great info. Being a noob with AR's can really hurt your brain in the beginning. I am 40 years old but feel like a kid with a new gaming console trying to learn all this stuff.
So not having M4 feed ramps is not a deal breaker if the gun is a good deal. As someone already mentioned, our troops have thousands of rifles without M4 feed ramps right now so its not the end of the world for the average Joe. But get them if you have a choice.
Wait, Rob S said in his chart that M4 feed ramps were developed for the M4. The shorter gas length made the high cyclic rate of the BCG faster under full auto and burst. I may be wrong here but if I am only shooting semi auto...why would I absolutely positively NEED M4 feed ramps?
Dont get me wrong I want them and the deductive reasoning and logic makes sense, but where is the scientific data that supports the claim that I must have them of else I will have a jam-O-matic in semi auto?
I am not doubting the claims that I need them,(like I said I want them) but this is M4carbine.net...home of the "here's a link to back up my claim" type forum.
Thats all I was asking.
there is no "need," until you get a round hung up on your receiver. then you needed m4 ramps.
the odds of that happening are low... but they're still there, and it's happened enough in the M4 carbine that a not-so-minor design upgrade was made, and it was enough of a concern that screwing with compatibility was worth it.
i'm not sure how this thread has managed to go on this long... it's really very simple.
I am surprised no one has posted a link to scientific data that proves M4 feed ramps are better in a semi-auto AR? I already know they are better in a select fire M16/M4.
Other than "just trust me", can anyone just post a link with data on this? Again... I am 100% for them and not against them.
I have seen guys experience feed issues in both, top tier semi-auto AR's with M4 feed ramps and semi-auto AR's with rifle feed ramps. It seemed like both had malfunctions pretty evenly? (which was rare to say the least)
I was just wondering if feed issues happen more in semi-auto AR's with rifle feed ramps? Or is it just hearsay?
Why dont YOU find the link since you are so concerned about it, hassling the people trying to help you is the wrong way to go about this. But from the way you are posting Im sure you have been banned from here before.
Knowledgeable members have given you the information. It is up to you to use it. If you want to argue the point then do so somewhere else.
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