View Full Version : Sea Shepherd Captain Paul Watson on Interpol's wanted list
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100625/wl_canada_afp/japanwhalingcanadainterpol_20100625141044
About damn time if you ask me. But he is not being placed on a "red list" meaning they will come after him. I guess they are just monitoring him at this point.
TOKYO (AFP) – Interpol this week placed the head of US-based anti-whaling group Sea Shepherd on an international wanted list at Japan's request, authorities in Tokyo said Friday.
The Japan Coastguard was informed by Interpol Thursday about the listing of Canadian Paul Watson, 59, for allegedly conspiring to harass whaling ships in Antarctic clashes in February, a coastguard spokeswoman said.
The coastguard filed the request with the French-based police service in April as part of Japan's long-running battle with militant environmentalists from Watson's Sea Shepherd Conservation Society.
Kyodo News said Japan had asked Interpol to issue a so-called blue notice, asking national police forces to provide information on Watson's whereabouts and activities, but not a red notice requesting his arrest.
Japan hunts whales under a loophole to an international moratorium that allows the killing of the sea mammals for scientific research, but it does not hide the fact that the meat is later sold in shops and restaurants.
Sea Shepherd has long sought to obstruct Japan's whalers and this year claimed its most successful season yet by preventing the harpoon ships from killing hundreds of the ocean giants.
Japanese authorities say the activists inflicted chemical burns on whaling crews by throwing bottles of butyric acid, which the Sea Shepherd group describes as rancid-butter stink bombs.
Sea Shepherd's futuristic powerboat the Ady Gil, carrying six crew, sank after it was sliced in two in a collision with the whaling fleet's security ship in January.
The boat's captain Peter Bethune later boarded a whaling ship and was detained. He is now on trial in Tokyo for trespass, causing injury and other charges. Prosecutors have demanded two years in prison for the New Zealander.
The court is due to deliver its verdict on July 7.
Like INTERPOL has nothing better to do than keep tabs on this guy. Japan using INTERPOL to help keep whale meat flowing into their country is bullcrap. While I agree the sea shepards are a bunch of idiots, they seem to be the only people calling out Japan on their "research". The only thing they are researching is how much whale meat can they drag out of the sea without the rest of the world getting pissed off.
there are plenty of people calling out Japan on their research. It's the Sea Shepherds that think piracy and extremism is the way to fix it, and therefor gets the most attention amongst the uninformed. It most definitely is not the best way. There are plenty of organizations that do much more for the anti-whaling movement than the Sea Shepherds do. They just get all the coverage.
I am just very happy that there "appears" to be some action taken against the SS and this Watson guy.
The Sea Shepherds are nothing more than Environmental Terrorists right alongside ELF and ALF. And no I don't mean the 1980's Sitcom charecter who ate cats either.
I would like to see Watson and his minions in an international court facing charges for Piracy.
Honestly, I am surprised that the Japanese have not paid a group of PMCs with advanced training in maritime operations to 'take out' the Sea Shepard fleet.
Thomas M-4
06-26-10, 12:01
They don't need to the she shepherds are a bunch of idiots.
Watched it last night the episode just before the bat-boat gets run over by a whaler:p
Thomas M-4
06-26-10, 12:14
Honestly, I am surprised that the Japanese have not paid a group of PMCs with advanced training in maritime operations to 'take out' the Sea Shepard fleet.
I used to think Paul was the biggest idiot but after watching this seasons episodes with the bob barker and the andygil :rolleyes: I came to realize that Paul is the smartest of the bunch of tree huggin pot smocking drunk,dumbasses the capitian of the andygil being the biggest jack ass cross between annoying steve erwin that has watched XXX the movie to many times WTF :rolleyes:
LegalAlien
06-26-10, 12:46
I do not condone what the sea shepherds are doing, but if they are able to save one whale from becoming japanese 'research' meat, then he is still somewhat effective.
If Watson has to go on trial for piracy, then I guess the Japanese should face much more severe International punishment for decimating the whale population, flaunting their 'research' exemption, while full-well aware that the whole world knows it is not for research purposes.
The international ban on whaling should be a total ban, and a loop-hole, the size of a japanese whaling fleet, is sugar coating what they are doing.
At least Watson has the balls to stand up to the Japanese and show the rest of the world what is really happening.
I'm all for sustainable whale hunting.
I eat smart animals all the time, Id be willing to bet a pig is smarter than any whale, but I don't see people crying over their slab of bacon next to the eggs.
I do not condone what the sea shepherds are doing, but if they are able to save one whale from becoming japanese 'research' meat, then he is still somewhat effective.
If Watson has to go on trial for piracy, then I guess the Japanese should face much more severe International punishment for decimating the whale population, flaunting their 'research' exemption, while full-well aware that the whole world knows it is not for research purposes.
The international ban on whaling should be a total ban, and a loop-hole, the size of a japanese whaling fleet, is sugar coating what they are doing.
At least Watson has the balls to stand up to the Japanese and show the rest of the world what is really happening.
This has been hashed over on M4C a bunch of times.
You are welcome to your (misinformed) opinion, but please do your research. The Japanese provide valuable research on whales and even the anti people at the international org level have acknowledged such. The number of whales taken pale compared to the size of the whale populations and most of the whales taken are in no way endangered. At least they use the meat after they gather their research data (which is things like what the whales are eating, DNA, size and age measurements, etc).
You can search on M4C on whaling and read the previous threads.
The Sea Shepherds are nothing more than Environmental Terrorists right alongside ELF and ALF. And no I don't mean the 1980's Sitcom character who ate cats either.
I would like to see Watson and his minions in an international court facing charges for Piracy.
Right there, I totally agree. Though I would rather watch them go down with the ship
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-26-10, 15:09
My 5 year old son started watching the show and he asked me who where to good guys... and I just had to pause.
The Sea Shepherds are nothing more than Environmental Terrorists right alongside ELF and ALF. And no I don't mean the 1980's Sitcom charecter who ate cats either.
I would like to see Watson and his minions in an international court facing charges for Piracy.
Yep. And like all the other groups mentioned, they simply make me not give a **** about an issue I'd normally be sympathetic too.
I'm all for sustainable whale hunting.
I eat smart animals all the time, Id be willing to bet a pig is smarter than any whale, but I don't see people crying over their slab of bacon next to the eggs.
I wish bacon and ham wasn't do damn tasty. Because pigs are an intelligent animal. All I can say is it's a good thing whales don't taste as good as bacon.
This has been hashed over on M4C a bunch of times.
You are welcome to your (misinformed) opinion, but please do your research. The Japanese provide valuable research on whales and even the anti people at the international org level have acknowledged such. The number of whales taken pale compared to the size of the whale populations and most of the whales taken are in no way endangered. At least they use the meat after they gather their research data (which is things like what the whales are eating, DNA, size and age measurements, etc).
You can search on M4C on whaling and read the previous threads.
Valuable research? The only ones saying the research is valuable is Japan. If you do not see the flaw in the scientific method in their research you are blind. The research they do is always found to be insufficient, which mean they always need to do more. There are also non-lethal research methods they can use but they choose not use them. They supposedly do population surveys, but never publish them and they use surveys from like 1985 to make their quotas.
Do you know who gives Japan the permits and quotas for their whale research? JAPAN does. Even when the IWC told Japan not to take any whales for research they issued themselves permits anyway. Japan has also been caught bribing, funding, and giving incentives to IWC members so they will support whaling.
Do you honestly believe that the research will ever show anything other than finding that support whaling. Japan has already over fished their own water to the point that their catches decline every year. Their "scientific research" shows that whales are the cause of it because they eat too much.
I wish bacon and ham wasn't do damn tasty. Because pigs are an intelligent animal. All I can say is it's a good thing whales don't taste as good as bacon.
You only say that because you haven't had whale bacon.. yet...:D
Valuable research? The only ones saying the research is valuable is Japan. If you do not see the flaw in the scientific method in their research you are blind. The research they do is always found to be insufficient, which mean they always need to do more. There are also non-lethal research methods they can use but they choose not use them. They supposedly do population surveys, but never publish them and they use surveys from like 1985 to make their quotas.
Do you know who gives Japan the permits and quotas for their whale research? JAPAN does. Even when the IWC told Japan not to take any whales for research they issued themselves permits anyway. Japan has also been caught bribing, funding, and giving incentives to IWC members so they will support whaling.
Do you honestly believe that the research will ever show anything other than finding that support whaling. Japan has already over fished their own water to the point that their catches decline every year. Their "scientific research" shows that whales are the cause of it because they eat too much.
You are welcome to believe what you want to believe. In the previous whale threads I believe I posted links that show you are mistaken. That even some anti whaling commission bigwhig acknowledged that the Japanese collected valuable information.
And do you know why the Japanese issue themselves permits? Because they are supposed to. That is how the international whaling agreements work.
And do you know why the Japanese issue themselves permits? Because they are supposed to. That is how the international whaling agreements work.
They must first submit the permit for review to the IWC. Every time the IWC has told Japan not to issue the permit they did it anyway. They did not start doing research until whaling was banned, simply to use that loophole.
They must first submit the permit for review to the IWC. Every time the IWC has told Japan not to issue the permit they did it anyway. They did not start doing research until whaling was banned, simply to use that loophole.
Strange. They self issue permits but then have to have it reviewed? Why not just make the IWC issue permits? Something does not make sense.
The fact is that the Japanese are working within the parameters set. Their research is being used to show that the blanket ban is not scientific (which it is not) and that sustainable whaling is possible. But the other countries in the IWC are driven by emotion and politics and not by science. There was no need to do research before the ban -- that was their incentive to start so that they could show that sustainable whaling is possible.
Japan should just withdraw from the IWC. Then it would not be "subject" to the IWC and could do what it wanted. I believe Norway did just that IIRC. Japan was going to but the US basically blackmailed them with fishing rights in US waters and then hosed them anyway and did not live up the agreement they made with the Japanese...
I am going to have to find some whale next time I am in Japan and see how it tastes.
The Sea Shepherds are nothing more than Environmental Terrorists right alongside ELF and ALF. And no I don't mean the 1980's Sitcom charecter who ate cats either.
I would like to see Watson and his minions in an international court facing charges for Piracy.
Agreed. I'm surprised he hasn't be shot at while trying to destroy someone else's property.
First of all, Im not opposed to whaling. Banning it wont stop it, and just makes it more desirable.
I am opposed to what Japan is doing. They do hunt endangered whales, like the sei whale. There should be an independent organization doing the research, and setting quotas instead of a country whose only goal is to hunt whales for food. Japan can not even regulate fishing around there own country without screwing it up, they are the last country that should be issuing their own permits and quotas for anything.
thopkins22
06-27-10, 00:36
Japan can not even regulate fishing around there own country without screwing it up....
I'd like to see an example of any commercial fishing regulation that's been successful...from any country. I'm sure there's an exception or two, but by and large not so much.
We certainly are clueless about such things in this country...the National Parks are amongst the best examples of what happens when bureaucrats are put in charge of natural resources.
The notion that these people make me less inclined to agree with their causes is very valid. Last year at the Houston Rodeo and Livestock Show there were PETA protesters outside with signs talking about all the inhumane things that are done to the bulls and broncos(which is in fact pretty rough stuff,) but the extreme measure they went to were enough to make me buy a ticket out of spite. Similar to the PETA protests at KFC...they make me feel like buying a bucket.
ForTehNguyen
06-27-10, 08:43
Agreed. I'm surprised he hasn't be shot at while trying to destroy someone else's property.
thats why he attacks Japanese ships
CarlosDJackal
06-27-10, 08:54
This has been hashed over on M4C a bunch of times.
You are welcome to your (misinformed) opinion, but please do your research. The Japanese provide valuable research on whales and even the anti people at the international org level have acknowledged such. The number of whales taken pale compared to the size of the whale populations and most of the whales taken are in no way endangered. At least they use the meat after they gather their research data (which is things like what the whales are eating, DNA, size and age measurements, etc).
You can search on M4C on whaling and read the previous threads.
Just because they provide facts and statistics about the whale they hunt down and kill; it doesn't mean they are providing worthwhile research. This is like saying illegal poachers helps wildlife management. :rolleyes:
As far as these loons from the Sea Shepherd. I guess INTERPOL would rather spend their efforts being the puppet to the pro-whaling Japanese because they haven't had much luck in tracking down the other scumbags (IE: human traffickers, international terrorists, etc.).
Whenever I watch the show, I sometimes feel think that the world would be a much better place if the Sea Shepherd's ship were to collide with and sink one of the Japanese ao-called "research" vessels and both went down. As far as I'm concerned, both parties are made up of worthless individuals and would do the rest of the world a huge favor if they were to run into a Titanic-type iceberg. JM2CW.
Just because they provide facts and statistics about the whale they hunt down and kill; it doesn't mean they are providing worthwhile research. This is like saying illegal poachers helps wildlife management. :rolleyes:
I think you missed the part about even the anti-whaling commission admitting they provided valuable research. I believe a previous whaling thread provides a link to said comments.
Right there, I totally agree. Though I would rather watch them go down with the ship
Watson doesn't have the stones to go down with the ship....He has stated time and again that he ask's of his crew's a willingness to die for the whales...and at the same time states that he is to valuable to put himself at risk.
The new advertisements for the Whale War show even states..."It's not about the Whale's."
This is reminiscent of the leader of Peta....Ingrid Newkirk's statement of her Insulin Dependant Diabetes. “I’m an insulin-dependent diabetic. Twice a day I take synthetically manufactured insulin that still contains some animal products — and I have no qualms about it … I’m not going to take the chance of killing myself by not taking insulin. I don’t see myself as a hypocrite. I need my life to fight for the rights of animals.”
I don't care how she see's herself...She and Watson both are Hypocrite's and part of the "Do as I say and not as I do." Crowd.
Another thread on the Whale Wars show.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=33297
LegalAlien
06-27-10, 13:47
This has been hashed over on M4C a bunch of times.
You are welcome to your (misinformed) opinion, but please do your research. The Japanese provide valuable research on whales and even the anti people at the international org level have acknowledged such. The number of whales taken pale compared to the size of the whale populations and most of the whales taken are in no way endangered. At least they use the meat after they gather their research data (which is things like what the whales are eating, DNA, size and age measurements, etc).
You can search on M4C on whaling and read the previous threads.
There must be a LOT OF MONEY in the research the Japanese are busy with. They have a pretty large 'research fleet' and they invest a lot of money to protect their 'researchers'
The 'research' line is just so much bullshit and I cannot believe that you are drinking that kool-aid. You normally come accross as a much more logical person in most of your other postings.
WHy does Japan not just stop the 'research' scam and call it what it is? Answer - because it is the only way they can still carry out commercial whale slaughter. It is a commercial operation in the guise of research.
And to even think that the Japanese would publish any research data that might put their commercial operation in jeopordy, is totally laughable. That is like putting the fox in charge of whatching the hen-house. If you believe this, I must assume that you also believe in Global warming and all 'supporting research' done by East Anglia University.
Is there any other research done by independent, unbiased organizations that possible counter the results of the Japanese 'research'? I would consider such resuls more credible than what comes out of Japanese 'whale research'
There must be a LOT OF MONEY in the research the Japanese are busy with. They have a pretty large 'research fleet' and they invest a lot of money to protect their 'researchers'
The 'research' line is just so much bullshit and I cannot believe that you are drinking that kool-aid. You normally come accross as a much more logical person in most of your other postings.
WHy does Japan not just stop the 'research' scam and call it what it is? Answer - because it is the only way they can still carry out commercial whale slaughter. It is a commercial operation in the guise of research.
And to even think that the Japanese would publish any research data that might put their commercial operation in jeopordy, is totally laughable. That is like putting the fox in charge of whatching the hen-house. If you believe this, I must assume that you also believe in Global warming and all 'supporting research' done by East Anglia University.
Is there any other research done by independent, unbiased organizations that possible counter the results of the Japanese 'research'? I would consider such resuls more credible than what comes out of Japanese 'whale research'
Some real disconnects here.
There must be real money in the limited number of whales that they harvest every year in the name of research. I don't know the figures but I doubt the 1000-2000 whales that the Japanese take each year (some 13000 from 1988-2009) make the large amount of effort the Japanese put into it worth it.
Japan publishes the results of at least some of its research as, as I have pointed out many times, some of the opposition has granted them that what they published was valuable information. (again, I believe I posted a link in a previous thread on whaling)
The reason the Japanese spend the effort to do the research that they do is not to commercially exploit the whales taken for research. That is a by product. Their research is aimed at providing scientific evidence against the emotionalism of those advocating the perpetuation of whaling "bans." It is in anticipation of *future* commercial whaling when they can show that whale populations can sustain a certain level of commercial harvest.
I have drunk no kool-aid. I am not emotionally invested in whaling. I am on the lookout for irrational emotionalism and I fight that. I did a fair amount of reading various things on whaling last time it came up. I am merely defending against emotionalism that is not based in facts.
Are the Japanese perfect? No. But the "international community" who is trying to ban whaling is short on facts and long on emotionalism, which is the greater sin in my book. Try to force others to live by your beliefs, especially ones based on emotions and not facts, just riles me up.
Whales make great subjects for emotional pleas upon which to try and sway people who don't know a lot in order to effect policy by those who want their way. Sound familiar? Gun control and anti-hunting advocates do the same thing.
Is there any other research done by independent, unbiased organizations that possible counter the results of the Japanese 'research'? I would consider such resuls more credible than what comes out of Japanese 'whale research'
There are no "unbiased" groups here. The whole subject is full of emotions. Whaling has been driven to the point where it is not possible, I believe, to find totally unbiased groups to carry out such research.
You yourself are obviously caught up in it based on the forcefulness of your language and the words you choose ("commercial whale slaughter" for example).
LegalAlien
06-27-10, 14:29
<snip>
I don't know the figures but I doubt the 1000-2000 whales that the Japanese take each year (some 13000 from 1988-2009) make the large amount of effort the Japanese put into it worth it.
Removing all emotions from the equation and trying to apply logic, I still find it difficult to see the need to use 1,000 -2,000 whales per year for research purposes.
The only logical conclusion is that it is a commercial fishing operation and to continue doing it under the veil (a very thin veil indeed) of research, is an affront to the intelligence of the whaling and conservation communities.
I am probably more 'upset' about the 'research scam' than the actual whale hunting.
I like meat, I like fish and might even eat whale meat if offered :), but to keep on playing the 'research' card and have HUGE RESEARCH banners on their whaling ships, is as much BS as the stupid 'whale warriors' trying to prevent them.
They need to just stop the scam - period.
Nathan_Bell
06-27-10, 14:42
This back and forth is all moot anyway, as whale meat is a cultural 'thing' with the Japanese. Should the polite fiction that they need all of the whales they kill per year for science become completely deflated, they will say FTW and keep on harvesting them. At least the current situation does give some useful research information.
I was a Fish and Wildlife Management major for a few years. This whole 'them killing the whales for research is false' is actually true. If you look at states that take a very big interest in producing sustainable fisheries and herds, a lot of the data they collect is from hunters and those said 'dead' animals.
Again, not all states, but was clearly the case in Michigan where I helped the DNR with the collection of data on white tailed deer in the U.P.
I think you missed the part about even the anti-whaling commission admitting they provided valuable research. I believe a previous whaling thread provides a link to said comments.
If there is a link please provide it. You keep using it to support your claims but are not providing anything to back it up.
i haven't seen anything in this thread that lends evidence to the idea that japan's whaling is causing any kind of problem... are whales going extinct because of japanese whaling? what is the negative?
seems to me regulated hunting has worked fine on dry land. i can go out and kill just about any land animal or waterfowl i want... just gotta pay a fee and promise to follow some rules. educate me on why whales are somehow unique on the planet.
Nathan_Bell
06-27-10, 15:31
If there is a link please provide it. You keep using it to support your claims but are not providing anything to back it up.
Use the search function and find the previous whaling/anti-whaling thread that he has referred to at least 4 times.
Use the search function and find the previous whaling/anti-whaling thread that he has referred to at least 4 times.
I did, and Im not sure what link he is talking about, there are alot of pages in those threads. Would be easier for him to find what he is talking about, than for me to guess at what he thinks he remembers from some other thread.
Belmont31R
06-27-10, 17:24
I don't care why they hunt whales. We do the same thing with species we have decimated in the last 100 years including grizzly/brown bear, bison, wolf, etc. Some of those species used to have ranges all the way from Canada down into Mexico, and now they are limited to the northern US because we killed them all off. You can still hunt them.
Its HIGHLY hypocritical for us to condemn one country for hunting no matter what their reason when we do the same shit if not in a worse way. Our country used to hunt whales by the shit ton, too....
And all these PETA/hippy type ****s are the biggest hypocrites of all. They have no problem living in a house where animals used to live, driving cars on roads where animals used to live (and block natural migration routes), wear leather shoes, burn oil, use animal based products, etc. I can't take any of these animal saviors seriously unless they ditch entire modern society, and live out in the woods with only their bare hands. Then, unless they used animal products, they would not survive through a single winter. Humans CANNOT survive without killing, and using animals at some point.
So no I don't care if the Japanese kill a thousand or two thousand whales a year.
I don't care why they hunt whales. We do the same thing with species we have decimated in the last 100 years including grizzly/brown bear, bison, wolf, etc. Some of those species used to have ranges all the way from Canada down into Mexico, and now they are limited to the northern US because we killed them all off. You can still hunt them.
Its HIGHLY hypocritical for us to condemn one country for hunting no matter what their reason when we do the same shit if not in a worse way. Our country used to hunt whales by the shit ton, too....
And all these PETA/hippy type ****s are the biggest hypocrites of all. They have no problem living in a house where animals used to live, driving cars on roads where animals used to live (and block natural migration routes), wear leather shoes, burn oil, use animal based products, etc. I can't take any of these animal saviors seriously unless they ditch entire modern society, and live out in the woods with only their bare hands. Then, unless they used animal products, they would not survive through a single winter. Humans CANNOT survive without killing, and using animals at some point.
So no I don't care if the Japanese kill a thousand or two thousand whales a year.
Well stated....
Well, I did a cursory search of one of the previous whaling topics and did not see the link. It is in one of the threads on whaling and either I posted it or someone else did and I remember reading it.
So I went and found it again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_controversy
"Although lethal sampling is a heavily debated issue, the IWC Scientific Committee acknowledges the usefulness of the data from JARPA.[58] In a November 2008 review of Japan's first 18 years of its scientific whaling program, the IWC stated that the panel was "very pleased with the data [that Japan] collected," and though "there was some advice on how these data could be further analyzed, or better analysed," that there "was general consensus about the high quality and the usefulness of the data."[59]"
[58] http://iwcoffice.org/conservation/jarpa.htm
[59] "Under the skin of whaling science". BBC. 2007-05-25.
You can not call the IWC "the anti-whaling commission" considering Japan, Iceland, and Norway are apart of it and have their own scientists on the panel.
Plus you have to consider all the countries that vote with Japan for aid money.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7149086.ece
Belmont31R
06-27-10, 19:42
You can not call the IWC "the anti-whaling commission" considering Japan, Iceland, and Norway are apart of it and have their own scientists on the panel.
Plus you have to consider all the countries that vote with Japan for aid money.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7149086.ece
Id rather see a mix of whaling and non-whaling nations in one group than both sides having their own groups...one trying to stop whaling, and another supporting it. Then you'd just believe whatever group you side with anyways.
Would you consider the US a whaling nation since we allow native indians to whale?
You can not call the IWC "the anti-whaling commission" considering Japan, Iceland, and Norway are apart of it and have their own scientists on the panel.
Plus you have to consider all the countries that vote with Japan for aid money.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7149086.ece
I do not believe Norway and Iceland are part of the IWC any longer.
If you look at the votes, the comments of various countries as to the purpose of the IWC and/or it's various committees, and the complaints Japan has against the IWC it is quite clear that most countries see the purpose of the IWC as completely banning all whaling. Most countries do not see the IWC as a way to promote responsible managed and sustainable whaling.
thopkins22
06-27-10, 20:18
Id rather see a mix of whaling and non-whaling nations in one group than both sides having their own groups...one trying to stop whaling, and another supporting it. Then you'd just believe whatever group you side with anyways.
I'd rather just see somebody say "You know what? We're a sovereign nation and we don't need your permission."
Norway and Iceland are members of the IWC.
http://www.iwcoffice.org/commission/members.htm
Should the polite fiction that they need all of the whales they kill per year for science become completely deflated, they will say FTW and keep on harvesting them. At least the current situation does give some useful research information.
I would love to see this
And all these PETA/hippy type ****s are the biggest hypocrites of all. They have no problem living in a house where animals used to live, driving cars on roads where animals used to live (and block natural migration routes), wear leather shoes, burn oil, use animal based products, etc. I can't take any of these animal saviors seriously unless they ditch entire modern society, and live out in the woods with only their bare hands. Then, unless they used animal products, they would not survive through a single winter. Humans CANNOT survive without killing, and using animals at some point.
Well said! This should be put on T-shirts and sold
Norway and Iceland are members of the IWC.
http://www.iwcoffice.org/commission/members.htm
I was mistaken in my understanding.
Iceland withdrew from the IWC in 1992. In 2002 it rejoined but with a "reservation" on the moratorium, which allows them to legally ignore it.
Norway also made a "reservation" against the moratorium and is therefore legally exempt and also pursues commercial whaling.
You can not call the IWC "the anti-whaling commission" considering Japan, Iceland, and Norway are apart of it and have their own scientists on the panel.
Plus you have to consider all the countries that vote with Japan for aid money.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7149086.ece
You can draw your own opinions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Whaling_Commission
I'd rather just see somebody say "You know what? We're a sovereign nation and we don't need your permission."
I guess you have not figured out that this is exactly what Japan does. For example earlier this year there was a vote to ban the sale of bluefin tuna. Even before the vote Japan said they would ignore the ban if it passed. The ban did not pass but just shows that Japan will do whatever it wants.
So not only did the bluefin not receive any protection, they spawn in the gulf of mexico so there is no telling what the oil spill will do to them.
Belmont31R
06-27-10, 21:28
I guess you have not figured out that this is exactly what Japan does. For example earlier this year there was a vote to ban the sale of bluefin tuna. Even before the vote Japan said they would ignore the ban if it passed. The ban did not pass but just shows that Japan will do whatever it wants.
So not only did the bluefin not receive any protection, they spawn in the gulf of mexico so there is no telling what the oil spill will do to them.
They are a sovereign nation and can do as they like in their waters, and intl waters. No one has the right to tell them what to do just as they cannot tell us what to do.
They are a sovereign nation and can do as they like in their waters, and intl waters. No one has the right to tell them what to do just as they cannot tell us what to do.
Yup. Hence why nothing will be done to the Russians for killing those POS pirates and why we could invade Iraq without UN backing.
You can draw your own opinions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Whaling_Commission
I know what the IWC is, not sure what your wiki link is supposed to do for me. It is made up of pro and anti whaling countries, if there are more anti countries it just shows what the world thinks about the subject.
If you read the article in the link I posted you would see that it is pretty clear that Japan is buying votes. Unless you believe stuff like this:
Seydou Coulibaly, Mali’s fisheries minister, was not as keen because he said that whales were threatening his country’s food supplies by eating so many fish.
Im sure the poor fishermen of Mali are not getting in their yearly catch of fish because of the whales. Im sure the coast of Mali is being decimated by whales stealing their fish. OH WAIT, Mali is in the middle of the Sahara desert.
Belmont31R
06-27-10, 22:23
I know what the IWC is, not sure what your wiki link is supposed to do for me. It is made up of pro and anti whaling countries, if there are more anti countries it just shows what the world thinks about the subject.
If you read the article in the link I posted you would see that it is pretty clear that Japan is buying votes. Unless you believe stuff like this:
Im sure the poor fishermen of Mali are not getting in their yearly catch of fish because of the whales. Im sure the coast of Mali is being decimated by whales stealing their fish. OH WAIT, Mali is in the middle of the Sahara desert.
Who cares? Its a dog and pony show anyways. In the end they will do what they want, and they have the right to do what they want in their own waters.
The IWC has no teeth. Its a voluntary feel good organization who has no legal authority. Its worse than the UN.
I know what the IWC is, not sure what your wiki link is supposed to do for me. It is made up of pro and anti whaling countries, if there are more anti countries it just shows what the world thinks about the subject.
I did not put the link in there to inform you what the IWC is. You said originally, to my claim of the anti-whaling commission
You can not call the IWC "the anti-whaling commission" considering Japan, Iceland, and Norway are apart of it and have their own scientists on the panel.
And I provided you with the IWC link, which in the first couple paragraphs, make it pretty obvious that it is an anti-whaling commission.
If you read the article in the link I posted you would see that it is pretty clear that Japan is buying votes. Unless you believe stuff like this:
Why is this relevant?
Politics and back room deals afflict every political organization. Why should the IWC be any different?
And why should Japan or anyone give a flying-frig about what the rest of the world things about any issue.
Should we care that the rest of the world wants to eliminate or at least severely restrict civilian ownership of firearms?
Removing all emotions from the equation and trying to apply logic, I still find it difficult to see the need to use 1,000 -2,000 whales per year for research purposes.
Easy. They need to check and see if they still find them to be delicious or not.
That's research.
CarlosDJackal
06-28-10, 10:16
I think you missed the part about even the anti-whaling commission admitting they provided valuable research. I believe a previous whaling thread provides a link to said comments.
Oh I didn't miss it. I also think that the "wildlife management system" we had in the 1900s probably received a lot of "useful data" from those who hunted the hundreds of North American species into extinction. Data does us no good when it's means of collection result in the species' extinction.
The fact that the Japanese have to mask their activities as "Research" should be a clue to those who do not have the intelligence to understand that their "research" is secondary to what amounts to their willingness to poach these species into extinction just because they want to. :rolleyes:
ADDED: Don't get me wrong, I am not in anyway a "green" or an anti-hunting person. But I believe in using common sense on what species we should keep hunting.
Oh I didn't miss it. I also think that the wildlife management system we had probably received a lot of "useful data" from those who hunted the hundreds of North American species into extinction even in the 1900s.
The fact that the Japanese have to mask their activities as "Research" should be a clue to those who do not have the intelligence to understand that their "research" is secondary to what amounts to their willingness to poach these species into extinction just because they want to. :rolleyes:
Too bad about facts. They kind of get in the way. The Japanese are not taking anywhere near unsustainable levels. Extinction is not what is happening. Strike 1. And they are not poaching. Strike 2.
Belmont31R
06-28-10, 10:22
Oh I didn't miss it. I also think that the wildlife management system we had probably received a lot of "useful data" from those who hunted the hundreds of North American species into extinction even in the 1900s.
The fact that the Japanese have to mask their activities as "Research" should be a clue to those who do not have the intelligence to understand that their "research" is secondary to what amounts to their willingness to poach these species into extinction just because they want to. :rolleyes:
The number of whales they kill won't have a significant impact on whale populations. They take a couple thousand when there are hundreds of thousands of whales.
Besides we have no moral authority, as a country, to tell them not to hunt whales with healthy populations when we have obliterated certain species here, and never recovered them while still allowing hunting of those species. Do you know grizzly populations used to go into northern Mexico? Now they in a slice of the northern rockies as far as CONUS goes, and mostly all in NP's. How many wild buffalo are left? Even 5% of what there was 150 years ago?
RancidSumo
06-28-10, 12:56
Easy. They need to check and see if they still find them to be delicious or not.
That's research.
Best post in this thread by far. Also an excellent reason to continue the hunt in my opinion. This whole thing has made me want to try some whale meat.
To get this back on topic, Libya sent warships after the Sea Shepard when they were freeing tuna.
http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-100617-1.html
ForTehNguyen
06-28-10, 15:51
talk about property damage. I dont see these people any different as Somali pirates.
How are they getting this level of funding. They have a fleet, helicopters, divers. Where do they afford this?
Belmont31R
06-28-10, 15:55
talk about property damage. I dont see these people any different as Somali pirates.
How are they getting this level of funding. They have a fleet, helicopters, divers. Where do they afford this?
Celebrities like to throw money at them so they can sleep good at night.
Celebrities like to throw money at them so they can sleep good at night....secure in the knowledge they are enlightened enough to eat animals like cows, chickens, and pigs.
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