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View Full Version : Early AR-10 Reliability?


BushmasterFanBoy
06-28-10, 12:21
In order to keep another thread from going off track, I've decided to ask this here.

Along the course of development for various AR-type rifles in 7.62, inevitably, reliability is a big concern. This seems to be almost counter-intuitive, as Stoner originally designed the rifle in 7.62mm, and as many astute gun-fanciers know, the "original" is oftentimes the most trouble free design, since it has not been adapted or modified in unintended ways.

This seems to beg the question, how reliable were the old AR-10 prototypes? I've seen videos of test firing, and while they're quite impressive, they are sales/marketing videos, and not impartial tests. I'm just curious if 7.62 ever really worked in the AR, or if only the modern iterations of it encounter decreased reliability when compared to the very thoroughly tested 5.56.
jaygee
06-30-10, 20:43
IIRC, the AR10 placed second behind the FAL in the South African trials of 1960. Not too shabby for a
weapon with a LOT less time in development. I suspect the original AR10 was at least as good as any
version we can get today.
armakraut
07-01-10, 00:55
As reliable as a G3. Portugal used both in Angola.

The only modern AR-10 I've ever heard of working well has been the LMT 308. It's heavy (10lbs), but it beat the HK 417 and 308 SCAR in the British DMR trails and those are two seriously reliable rifles. Having used both, I wouldn't trust a DPMS or Armalite AR10 variation for any serious use.

A modern Sudanese model AR10 with a flat top receiver would be a beautiful thing.
TOrrock
07-01-10, 07:08
Portugal was the big end user in combat, in both Angola and Mozambique. They actually issued FN FAL's, HK G3's, and Dutch production AR-10's side by side in theatre. From what I've read and heard, many Portuguese troopers preferred the AR-10 for it's weight and were very happy with it's reliability.

Chuck Taylor wrote several articles about the AR-10 back in the 1980's, using several original select fire examples for his articles. It was his favorite battle rifle.

Besides Portugal, Sudan, Nicaragua, Burma, and several others bought Dutch production AR-10's.

The "new" Armalite AR-10B's are cosmetic clones of the Sudanese version.

I'd love to have one of the semi auto builds using military surplus AR-10 uppers and one of the commercial lowers that came out in the early 80's, but they start at around $3K.

Some pics of Portuguese troops in the African colonial wars....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Africa/Portuguese%20Colonial%20Wars/docu00139ad.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Africa/Portuguese%20Colonial%20Wars/Angola1970-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Africa/Portuguese%20Colonial%20Wars/Buscadearmadilhas.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Africa/Portuguese%20Colonial%20Wars/AssaltonaMatadaSanga___.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Africa/Portuguese%20Colonial%20Wars/Sempreatentos___aoperigo21.jpg
Hydra
07-10-10, 10:56
The best AR rifles ever made were the Dutch AR-10s.
TOrrock
07-22-10, 13:29
Here's some of Armalite's early promotional media.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kp_1ep0164&videos=rifFQSmkn5Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWpghGNUASY&videos=QFcnJxljeOI
Thomas M-4
07-22-10, 13:36
KAC SR-25 It is after all a Stoner Rifle.
Cagemonkey
07-22-10, 17:25
Would be nice if Armalite made a reproduction that was identical to the original. No heavy barrel's, no heavy BCG's. Not the bastardized AR10B they produce with they're non compatible magazine.
Abraxas
07-22-10, 17:29
Tagging for interest
Amicus
08-10-10, 19:23
Hmm. I was in a gun shop today and spotted what I thought was an AR-10. Not knowing much about them, I noted the brown furniture, the carry handle charging handle, and a six digit serial beginning with "5." The proprietor intimated, but did not outright say, that it was a 1960s-era AR-10.

Where can I find out more about these rifles to asertain when this model was made?
dorchester
08-12-10, 17:51
Be careful here, the modern Armalite produced some AR10's with just those features a few years ago. The store owner MAY be trying to pull a fast one. I find it hard to believe that if he did have one of the old originals he wouldn't know it. Having said that, my current AR10 has always been very reliable. As long as I kept hunting-style soft point ammo out of it, it has always worked great. Of course, I'm not dragging it through an Angolan jungle either.
armakraut
08-12-10, 18:10
http://www.impactguns.com/store/651984150153.html

This is an AR-10B made by the new Armalite company. If their rifles took real AR10 magazines and weren't gassed to run match ammo, they might actually be worth their sticker price.
TOrrock
08-12-10, 18:48
There's a dealer, I believe he's in PA, who makes it to the Nation's GunShow in Chantilly, VA, who deals in real/retro AR-10's. I've drooled over 5 original parts kit semi auto rifles he had at a show, and an original transferrable.

All original AR-10's will be select fire and NFA weapons. There were a number of different attempts to make civilian legal semi auto lowers for the parts kits that were available 30 years or so ago.

Sendra (which became Bushmaster) and Telco were two I can think of off the top of my head. There was a third but I can't remember.

The Armalite AR-10B looks like an original Sudanese version (superficially), but the stocks would be new and made out of a modern material.

Original AR-10's didn't have a case deflector on the upper receiver either.
Amicus
08-13-10, 15:33
Be careful here, the modern Armalite produced some AR10's with just those features a few years ago. The store owner MAY be trying to pull a fast one. I find it hard to believe that if he did have one of the old originals he wouldn't know it. Having said that, my current AR10 has always been very reliable. As long as I kept hunting-style soft point ammo out of it, it has always worked great. Of course, I'm not dragging it through an Angolan jungle either.

Dorchester & Templar:

Yeah, a quick check of the above photos and Ezell's "Small Arms of the World" made it clear that it was a later "retro" version. I've got better things to spend my money on.

BTW, today is Friday the 13th. Pray for the Templars.
ThirdWatcher
08-13-10, 17:37
Having said that, my current AR10 has always been very reliable. As long as I kept hunting-style soft point ammo out of it, it has always worked great. Of course, I'm not dragging it through an Angolan jungle either.

My experience with my ArmaLite AR10A2 (Infantry Model) is consistent with yours.