View Full Version : Any value in learning Lockpicking?
In a EOTWAWKI situation, is lockpicking a valuable skill?
I think so. In the first phase after some sort of disaster, one could question it morally to break into a home, business, area or some sort of storage. But as time goes on, I suppose the morality of it would go down, and one's survival would become key. I believe anything that can possibly give you shelter or supplies would be very valuable in such a situation.
Outlander Systems
06-29-10, 20:05
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaching_round
Perhaps I should clarify. My thinking is, lockpicking is a skill involving time, equipment, and luck. It offers varying degrees of success. I'm thinking in a lawless situation, the worry of destroying the barricade or the lock itself will be minimal.
Is it better to have a big set of bolt cutters or the skill to pick the lock?
Perhaps I should clarify. My thinking is, lockpicking is a skill involving time, equipment, and luck. It offers varying degrees of success. I'm thinking in a lawless situation, the worry of destroying the barricade or the lock itself will be minimal.
Is it better to have a big set of bolt cutters or the skill to pick the lock?
The crowbar, sledge, bolt cutters method will be better. However there will be some locks that you will not have the resources to destroy and will need to defeat it some other way
arbninftry
06-29-10, 20:39
I went to a Suriptitious Entry Course, it is a perishible skill, but you can teach yourself. However, a sledge hammer/Breaching round/ or bolt cutters will suffice as well. Not really a skill you cant live without, and if you really think getting into that POS Car to bugout is worth while. Bust a window, save yourself some time. Hot wiring a car would probably be more worth while of your time.
QuietShootr
06-29-10, 20:42
Make yourself a bump key and learn how to bump locks. That will work more often than not on most residential builder-grade stuff, and it's a lot simpler than learning traditional lockpicking.
Bumping is so simple it's amazing it isn't more widespread.
Outlander Systems
06-29-10, 21:06
Bolt cutters, a fireman's axe, a strong thigh and a good pair of boots, and some breaching rounds should more than suffice.
Since you'd be attempting to access a structure that's likely to be abandoned, I don't see much point in lock-picking.
I also don't see much need for post-disaster, forcible entry; that being said, modern homes are some of the most woefully unsecured structures in history. We can thank Law Enforcement for this fact, because we have the ROL, and guardians to protect - the need for solid reinforcements upon the structure itself has virtually vanished.
In all likelihood, you wouldn't need much more than a solid kick to the lock.
Or, you could peel back the structure's siding, and cut through the sheetrock with a box-cutter. Window? Break it. Steel door on a concrete structure? Generator with a saw.
If you NEED to get into something, you'll find a way. That being said, with a long-term breakdown in services and civilisation, we're all TU sooner or later anyway. Looting is only postponing the inevitable.
Which leads me to an article I'm working on:
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4669/sustainability.jpg
mnoe82, email with pdf sent!
Gutshot John
06-29-10, 22:18
Hell it's a valuable skill now.
It beats having to ask your friendly LEO pick the lock to your cabin after you lock yourself out.
Ask me how I know. :)
AllAmerican
07-02-10, 15:50
I took a locksmith course through the GI Bill back in the 70's. One problem I see is if you acquire the tools, picks, key gun, etc. and get caught with them prior to needing them, and do not have a locksmith buisness or are enrolled in a locksmith school, all of these tools are illegal to posess.
I think a pair of good bolt cutters and a good bar would be better and easier to explain to LE if found with them.
NCPatrolAR
07-02-10, 17:57
Bolt cutters, a fireman's axe, a strong thigh and a good pair of boots, and some breaching rounds should more than suffice.
Since you'd be attempting to access a structure that's likely to be abandoned, I don't see much point in lock-picking.
I also don't see much need for post-disaster, forcible entry; that being said, modern homes are some of the most woefully unsecured structures in history. We can thank Law Enforcement for this fact, because we have the ROL, and guardians to protect - the need for solid reinforcements upon the structure itself has virtually vanished.
In all likelihood, you wouldn't need much more than a solid kick to the lock.
Or, you could peel back the structure's siding, and cut through the sheetrock with a box-cutter. Window? Break it. Steel door on a concrete structure? Generator with a saw.
One thing you are over-looking is the fact that if you force entry into the structure you make it harder to secure in the event you need to use it as a place of safety. Being able to pick the lock always you to continue to use the locks for what little bit of security they provide. Also, the ability to pick the lock is quiter, less tiring physically, etc. Its a good skill to have.
Plus the tools to get in most locks weighs next to nothing and takes up virtually no space.
NCPatrolAR
07-02-10, 18:01
I took a locksmith course through the GI Bill back in the 70's. One problem I see is if you acquire the tools, picks, key gun, etc. and get caught with them prior to needing them, and do not have a locksmith buisness or are enrolled in a locksmith school, all of these tools are illegal to posess.
I think a pair of good bolt cutters and a good bar would be better and easier to explain to LE if found with them.
There is more to a possession of burglary tools charge than just simple possession of certain tools (at least here in NC). PLus, you dont need a lot of tools to tackle most locks. Some bulkier items such as a knob puller are nice to have, but are far from needed. All of the locks I've picked at work have been accomplished through the use of 1 of 2 tension wrenchs and either a half diamond or sawtooth pick.
Make yourself a bump key and learn how to bump locks. That will work more often than not on most residential builder-grade stuff, and it's a lot simpler than learning traditional lockpicking.
Bumping is so simple it's amazing it isn't more widespread.
Anyone ever use premade bump keys?
http://www.bumpkey.us/
AllAmerican
07-03-10, 07:53
There is more to a possession of burglary tools charge than just simple possession of certain tools (at least here in NC). PLus, you dont need a lot of tools to tackle most locks. Some bulkier items such as a knob puller are nice to have, but are far from needed. All of the locks I've picked at work have been accomplished through the use of 1 of 2 tension wrenchs and either a half diamond or sawtooth pick.
I agree with the possession charge, I live in NC now also. I have kept all of my tools and practiced for years opening locks, but always at home. As far as the knob puller, another very handy piece to get is a good dent puller from an auto parts store. It will pull a vehicle ignition lock out quick. I do not know about the new keys with the chips in them though, (new technology) There may be a need to 'borrow' a vehicle for emergency use at any time. A LOT of people keep a hide a key on a vehicle, if you had time it might be worth the time to look for one. When I was a cop we all carried slim jims, but with a Ford PU which is what I have I can get into it with a long skinny screwdriver faster than a key. Once you learn a technique it will stay with you a long time...
Good Thread!
AllAmerican
07-03-10, 08:04
Anyone ever use premade bump keys?
http://www.bumpkey.us/
This is interesting, I just ordered the 33 set with all the extras, will let you know how they work....
Thanks for the link!
AllAmerican
the Bogota Picks from www.serepick.com have gotten good reviews and they don't look like what they are. also lighter and more compact than a set of bump keys.
i don't have any yet, but they're supposed to be VERY east to use... almost as simple as a bump key.
QuietShootr
07-06-10, 08:45
the Bogota Picks from www.serepick.com have gotten good reviews and they don't look like what they are. also lighter and more compact than a set of bump keys.
i don't have any yet, but they're supposed to be VERY east to use... almost as simple as a bump key.
If you order some, let us know if/how easy they are to use.
chavez_e_chavez
07-06-10, 09:06
Nice breach round from a mossberg would do just fine......but stealth wise , i need it for when my teen-age daughter locks herself in her room...LOL;)
Acetylene torch set.
Pipe saw.
http://us.husqvarnacp.com/storage/pim/hccs/product/Husqvarna_K_760_Rescue_HC210-0132_large.jpg
Breaching rounds are so blah, det cord linear is where its at... but in reality, knowing how to pick a lock is part of the spectrum of gaining entry and has its advantages over other methods, as well it has its disadvantages. I wouldnt dump a huge amount of time or money into it but integrate it into your training/practice regimen. Get a handful of pad locks of various makes and maybe a few door locks from yard sales and create a training board and just practice when you get a chance. OR practice on the locks around your house.
I keep a small pocket knife sized pick set in my travel gear and have never been questioned about it. Have carried it all over the world and used it a number of times when locked out of a place I normally would have keys to.
No damage (if you do it right), discreet, quiet, etc.
Not to mention when you look at the title of your thread from the main forum page it comes up as: "Any value in learning..." I have found the answer to that question to almost always be yes.
NCPatrolAR
07-07-10, 12:07
When it comes to training boards; I recommend getting different brands of locks to work on. Each brand has it's own level of difficulty and it's wise to know which locks are easier to pick than others.
I also have a loop of 550 cord that I keep several padlocks attached to for training purposes.
VirginiaTactical
07-07-10, 14:13
If you are MIL/LE there is an excellent class taught by Carey and Associates. I had 12 hours of training with them hosted by the Marine Corps Dynamic Entry School, and they taught me plenty. They host classes individually and sometimes in accordance with other classes like DES, and SERE.
They also give out lockpicks, and a very nice book on lockpicking that becomes very usefull in the future as you conduct training and sustainment to not loose the perishable skill. The book also contains locks that can't be picked, and breakdowns of other things that are LE/MIL sensitive.
They had super hard locks, that if you picked you got special prizes, like nice lockpicks, skeleton keys, wafer keys, and some electronic devices. They also had the "old glory" lock, if you picked that you got a flag! It was a fun day.
Attached is the cert, I can't seem to find them on google, but I am not the best at finding them either. If you are interested and are LE/MIL I can send you their email address. Or google them better than I can =).
VirginiaTactical
07-07-10, 14:14
Found them!
http://carey-assoc-intl.com/
I had two Rs in carey oops!
NCPatrolAR
07-07-10, 19:51
If you are MIL/LE there is an excellent class taught by Carey and Associates. I had 12 hours of training with them hosted by the Marine Corps Dynamic Entry School, and they taught me plenty. They host classes individually and sometimes in accordance with other classes like DES, and SERE.
They also give out lockpicks, and a very nice book on lockpicking that becomes very usefull in the future as you conduct training and sustainment to not loose the perishable skill. The book also contains locks that can't be picked, and breakdowns of other things that are LE/MIL sensitive.
They had super hard locks, that if you picked you got special prizes, like nice lockpicks, skeleton keys, wafer keys, and some electronic devices. They also had the "old glory" lock, if you picked that you got a flag! It was a fun day.
Attached is the cert, I can't seem to find them on google, but I am not the best at finding them either. If you are interested and are LE/MIL I can send you their email address. Or google them better than I can =).
That is the group I recieved my training from a few years ago. We picked/bypassed all kinds of locks to include: residential and commerical knobs and deadbolts, combo locks, padlocks, bicycle locks, etc. Great class and they offer ongoing support to students that have been through the classes.
QuietShootr
07-07-10, 20:12
That is the group I recieved my training from a few years ago. We picked/bypassed all kinds of locks to include: residential and commerical knobs and deadbolts, combo locks, padlocks, bicycle locks, etc. Great class and they offer ongoing support to students that have been through the classes.
I took a DAME class a few years ago from a fellow in Oklahoma who's been doing that sort of thing for a long time. I love that shit. Never finished the ASI, but what fun curricula.
Von Rheydt
07-23-10, 08:42
Moved
just a scout
07-23-10, 09:41
Serepicks are great. Small, but take a lot of practice to use. Because of the bend, they don't feel as sensitive to me. Or maybe my fingers are just too screwed up. But they are nice and small. The Ti ones make past detectors too, btw.
You dont need a class. A good pick array, youtube and a board of locks. Get to work
1_click_off
09-11-10, 13:01
Anyone ever use premade bump keys?
http://www.bumpkey.us/
I have a set for automotive keys. They work, just need to practice practice practice...... Just good for entry though, can't start anything with a chip.
I want one of these pick sets just because they look so cool:
http://serepick.com/products.html
Is it better to have a big set of bolt cutters or the skill to pick the lock?
Bolt cutters (and other entry tools). Higher security places will require a little more dedication and skill to enter, but most American facilities are easy to gain entry into it. Like my Dad used to say, locks only keep honest people out.
streaker69
09-13-10, 21:50
As others have mentioned, there's always value to be gained by learning any new skill.
I know quite a few people who participate in the "locksport" and practice is regularly. There's an organization known as ToooL where they practice picking, finding weaknesses and many times reporting those weaknesses to manufacturers so that they can be fixed. It's like white hat computer hacking except for locks.
Here's a video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8311876885402551635#) that was shot back in 2006 which a couple of guys I know giving a talk about lockpicking. He goes into picking padlocks, gun locks and explains the science behind how locks work. It's definitely worth watching.
At around 50 minutes into the video, you'll see a guy in a fedora working on a safe. That safe is mine, he did not know the combination when I gave it to him, and he opened it live on stage in front of around 500 people.
So yes, it's worth learning lock picking, it's fun. Are you going to use that skill in a SHTF situation? Probably not, but I believe it's still worth it.
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