View Full Version : Are EO-Tech's Preferred For Close to Medium Range Engagements by U.S. SOCCOM Guys ?
Hello Guy's, As I was discussing the overall virtues of the EO Tech versus the AimPoint (M68 CCO) with some co-workers recently, most of us agreed that the M68 CCO's were by far the primary choice of US Special Operations personnel. ( I didn't agree.) I recall reading something recently that stated the EO Tech tended to be the primary choice of the various SOCCOM units currently deployed overseas ? Does anyone have any firm data as to which system gets the most use by our elite units ? Personally, I prefer an EO Tech, but my Dept.'s primary issue is the Aim Point, so I "try" to learn to like them. Any info regarding this issue will be very much appreciated. THANK YOU
Regards, dpast32
You'll be hard pressed to find any such physical data because, to date, EOTechs are no longer openly issued. They were recalled due to numerous initial issues and then eventually dropped in favor of the Aimpoint. To my knowledge, the only active EOTech users would be 1) those whose units have allowances to purchase outside of existing contracts to suit their personal needs (which I've personally never seen or heard of), or those who've purchased the optics themselves and have been given the go-ahead to use them. In other words, they aren't used unless that unit 1) asks for them and 2) has the go-ahead (and funding) to purchase them on their own, which is relatively very rare.
Hello Guy's, As I was discussing the overall virtues of the EO Tech versus the AimPoint (M68 CCO) with some co-workers recently, most of us agreed that the M68 CCO's were by far the primary choice of US Special Operations personnel. ( I didn't agree.) I recall reading something recently that stated the EO Tech tended to be the primary choice of the various SOCCOM units currently deployed overseas ? Does anyone have any firm data as to which system gets the most use by our elite units ? Personally, I prefer an EO Tech, but my Dept.'s primary issue is the Aim Point, so I "try" to learn to like them. Any info regarding this issue will be very much appreciated. THANK YOU
Regards, dpast32
I doubt that can be answered with concrete evidence. It's like asking if the city of Dallas prefers Coke over Pepsi?
QuietShootr
06-30-10, 14:12
Sounds to me like someone is trying to justify his purchase.
Sounds to me like someone is trying to justify his purchase.
That's the first thing I thought :D
chavez_e_chavez
06-30-10, 14:44
There will always be the aimpoint vs eotech people, who actually cares what Socom uses, it's a personal preference IMO.. I prefer the newer eotechs over the tractor trailers of the past...I enjoy the holographic circle with dots compared to the Single dot of a aimpoint ..Aimpoints have less battey consumption then Eotechs but I'm not in battle so it's not going to be a big deal of it dies when I'm shootin zombies, that's what iron sights are for and bayonets
Yeah, goes to personal preference. I like the EOTech reticle the most, but the TR24 is too amazing, and when weight and reliability matters, I run a micro Aimpoint, so I've only ended up with one EOTech, and it's on my .22lr rifle.
ask ten guys get twenty answers. most guys could give two shxtx as long as it works. I see eotechs, M3, micro, 3x acogs, vari-optics from a few makers.. I have a broken M3, and two broken eotechs. I would guess the service life of the electrical optics to be around 60-80K rds, less on beltfeds.
what dano said is true. with that said, i have personally seen more failures with eotechs than others listed, this due to the problems they had/have with the coil in the battery compartments. i believe they are fixing that by putting the bc's perpindicular to the weapon so that the recoil has less affect on the coils within the bc's.
You'll be hard pressed to find any such physical data because, to date, EOTechs are no longer openly issued. They were recalled due to numerous initial issues and then eventually dropped in favor of the Aimpoint. To my knowledge, the only active EOTech users would be 1) those whose units have allowances to purchase outside of existing contracts to suit their personal needs (which I've personally never seen or heard of), or those who've purchased the optics themselves and have been given the go-ahead to use them. In other words, they aren't used unless that unit 1) asks for them and 2) has the go-ahead (and funding) to purchase them on their own, which is relatively very rare.
Has the EOTech 553 been withdrawn from service? I know there were reported problems with the battery casing, but I thought the 553 (SU231/PEQ) was still out there and in use by SOCOM. Here is a photo of 553s on the SCARs carried by the Rangers...
http://news.soc.mil/releases/News%20Archive/2009/May/090524-A-6095H-730.jpg
I also thought a large number of EOTechs entered Army service through unit purchases under the Rapid Fielding Initiative.
I'm fairly certain you'll find plenty of EOTechs in service.
mkmckinley
07-01-10, 10:01
You'll be hard pressed to find any such physical data because, to date, EOTechs are no longer openly issued. They were recalled due to numerous initial issues and then eventually dropped in favor of the Aimpoint.
Not trying to twist your nipple but with all due respect this isn't accurate. The EOtech 553's are still the RDS that comes with the SOPMOD kit. Any unit running SOPMOD stuff is using that optic or Elcan SpecterDRs if they got those too. A 553 and Elcan come with each SCAR, for instance. The units I know of that are using SOPMOD right now in OEF-A are Army SF and special operations support (CA and PSYOPS), and Air Force TAC-P's. Not sure what the SEAL's and Rangers are running.
Overall guys like the 553's. The reticle is considered superior and we get free batteries.
That said I have personally experienced two 553 battery terminal meltdowns. They were both in pretty hot weather; Thailand and Yakima. However the 120 degree heat in Afghanistan this summer hasn't caused any problems so far. Not that I have anything against it, but the only guy at my fire base running an M68 is an air force generator mechanic nicknamed "fat kid".
You'll be hard pressed to find any such physical data because, to date, EOTechs are no longer openly issued. They were recalled due to numerous initial issues and then eventually dropped in favor of the Aimpoint. To my knowledge, the only active EOTech users would be 1) those whose units have allowances to purchase outside of existing contracts to suit their personal needs (which I've personally never seen or heard of), or those who've purchased the optics themselves and have been given the go-ahead to use them. In other words, they aren't used unless that unit 1) asks for them and 2) has the go-ahead (and funding) to purchase them on their own, which is relatively very rare.
Not sure where you get your information, but its WRONG.
SOCOM still issues the EOTech (no clue what model). And every SOCOM guy here that doesnt have a Elcan on his rifle was rocking a EOtech. I havent seen a single aimpoint on any of their rifles.
Rick
boonega is right, don't know where your info is coming from. there are also still some aimpoints floating around from original issue as well. the t-1 micro is a big hit with a few select guys with bottomless op $$$.
Some factual data from SOCOM on the 553 a few years ago.
> Warning sent to SOF ref EOtech 553 Reply with quote
> To all concerned:
>
> The SOPMOD Program Management Office (PMO) is issuing this notice to all
> potential users of the EOTech SU-231/PEQ Reflex Sight, NSN
> 1240-01-533-0941,
> also known as the holographic weapon sight.
>
> 1. It was recently brought to the attention of the SOPMOD PMO that there
> exists the possibility that the SU-231/PEQ Reflex Sight made by EOTech is
> susceptible to failure characterized by the sight shutting off in the
> middle
> of weapon fire.
>
> 2. The failure is caused by faulty battery contacts that were incorporated
> by EOTech without government concurrence. (See attached image). These
> faulty battery contacts are susceptible to wear due to shock while the
> weapon is firing. As a result, the batteries may lose contact, causing the
> sight to shut off.
>
> 3. EOTech has qualified a new supplier of these battery contacts and the
> SOPMOD PMO is currently validating this new configuration through testing.
> By mid April 2008, this process should be complete. At that time, SOPMOD
> will institute a 100 percent replacement of the SU-231/PEQs that have
> already been fielded. Maintenance Contact Teams will travel to field units
> to either swap out the sights with replacements or conduct on-site field
> repairs. As an interim solution, the SOPMOD PMO is currently testing a
> field replaceable grommet that will mitigate the risk of failure. Pending
> test results, these grommets will be shipped as part of a field
> replacement
> kits to units that have been issued the SU-231/PEQ.
>
> 4. The SOPMOD PMO has ordered a halt on any further fielding of this item
> until sufficient testing has been performed on sights with the
> incorporated
> part upgrade. For those field units that have already received the
> SU-231/PEQ, the SOPMOD PMO strongly recommends not using those sights
> until
> they can be replaced or repaired.
From what I know the units were repaired and SOCOM (right or wrong) is still using 553's. I can also state there was an article on a survey conducted about a year ago with US Army personal about their preferred choice of optic. Their choice, the Aimpoint Micro T1. Mind you this optic is not standard issue at the moment. Hope this helps.
Vic
I havent seen a single aimpoint on any of their rifles.
Before everybody starts taking up sides and wearing matching armbands.......
This means exactly what it says, as typed. YOU haven't seen any on their rifles, but consider that there's more guys that fall under SOCOM than you've seen. So, while the guy you were talking to may be wrong, so are you (macro) while still probably being right (micro), if only because I have no clue what you're seeing on the daily. Aimpoints're out there, all right. I can conclusively say this because I just came away from an evolution where they were being used on both carbines and crew-serves, with a company rep there to conduct classes in their use and generally-not-thought-of capabilities. I also saw them being used in Afghanistan.
So are ACOGs, and all sorts of other stuff, because there's plenty of SOCOM units that can Mommy/Daddy SOCOM and their parent organization, or they open-purchase stuff, or they buy their own, or Santa thought that they were good boys that fiscal year. Pick one.
Bottom line ends up being that there is absolutely no way to conclusively answer the OP's question, from my above standpoint, and the standpoint of the fact that there's plenty of these units in which the optic is swapped out according to differeing mission parameters, as they arise. Some guns have so many paint-pen markings on them that they look like Bozo the Clown blew a load on the things....
> 3.....
As an interim solution, the SOPMOD PMO is currently testing a
> field replaceable grommet that will mitigate the risk of failure. Pending
> test results, these grommets will be shipped as part of a field
> replacement
> kits to units that have been issued the SU-231/PEQ.
>.....
DERAIL: Am I reading the word "grommet" to describe a bumper of some sort, like what they did with the battery compartments on the PVS-17B/C retrofit kits?
NCPatrolAR
07-02-10, 01:24
There were plenty of 553s being used by Group when I was doing some work with them earlier in the year.
While I mainly use Aimpoints, I think the Eo reticle allows for more precise shooting.
I just left working with a team from 1st Group and they had a wide variety of optics. I saw Aimpoints, ACOG's, EoHells, Elcans, etc....
mkmckinley
07-02-10, 04:28
After having the battery compartment issues with my USGI 553's I bought my own XPS model and it's been flawless on this deployment. I haven't seen any 553's go down on this trip, but the new XPS line has put Eotechs in the same ballpark as Aimpoint in terms of durability. Now if they could only get battery life up a little.
chavez_e_chavez
07-02-10, 05:01
After having the battery compartment issues with my USGI 553's I bought my own XPS model and it's been flawless on this deployment. I haven't seen any 553's go down on this trip, but the new XPS line has put Eotechs in the same ballpark as Aimpoint in terms of durability. Now if they could only get battery life up a little.
+1, the smaller models in the xps line is great the Battery compartment is now separated from the base to allow it to hover over the delta ring of the rifle
# Average battery life at brightness level 12 is roughly 500-600 hours, 3X battery life of N cell sights..
aimpoint battery life is by far better,, but eotech is working on it..:p
The EOTech is a component of the SOPMOD kit.
Advantages of the sight are a great reticle and "Open" window that dees not obscure the target and downrange area. It is fast.
Major disadvantage is you can't trust it not to go down. Many will carry a spare for the day it shits the bed during combat operations.
For the SOCOM shooter equipment selection is a matter of mission. threat, and personal preference.
Belmont31R
07-02-10, 10:33
EOTech's will never have the same battery life as an Aimpoint due to the reticle. There is a lot more to illuminate on the EOTech vs. the relatively tiny Aimpoint dot.
Newer generations of electronic components can use less power but you aren't going to get 50k hours out of an EOTech any time soon.
In some ways I do prefer the EOTech reticle as its quicker for the eye to pick up but reliability problems have kept me away. I did just get an EXPS3-0 but its not here yet. Wanted to try it out, and if I don't like it some sap out there will buy it...:p
Before everybody starts taking up sides and wearing matching armbands.......
This means exactly what it says, as typed. YOU haven't seen any on their rifles, but consider that there's more guys that fall under SOCOM than you've seen. So, while the guy you were talking to may be wrong, so are you (macro) while still probably being right (micro), if only because I have no clue what you're seeing on the daily. Aimpoints're out there, all right. I can conclusively say this because I just came away from an evolution where they were being used on both carbines and crew-serves, with a company rep there to conduct classes in their use and generally-not-thought-of capabilities. I also saw them being used in Afghanistan.
So are ACOGs, and all sorts of other stuff, because there's plenty of SOCOM units that can Mommy/Daddy SOCOM and their parent organization, or they open-purchase stuff, or they buy their own, or Santa thought that they were good boys that fiscal year. Pick one.
Bottom line ends up being that there is absolutely no way to conclusively answer the OP's question, from my above standpoint, and the standpoint of the fact that there's plenty of these units in which the optic is swapped out according to differeing mission parameters, as they arise. Some guns have so many paint-pen markings on them that they look like Bozo the Clown blew a load on the things....
I didnt mean to make that statement mean anything more than what it is at face value. With a sample of 5-6 ODAs and 2 rotations of Rangers without an aimpoint is a significant sample size however. What do I run on my rifle? Aimpoint T-1.
But as I said, from what Ive seen they are issued the EOtech and use it. I think the aimpoint is a better sight, but Im not a trigger puller. I purchased my T1 on my own after having my issued EOtech go down twice in training and once downrange. Just providing a little 1st hand knowledge, as limited as it may be.
Rick
I've seen a a couple units go out and they had a variety of optics. Some eotech's, aimpoints, and acogs.
I purchased my T1 on my own after having my issued EOtech go down twice in training and once downrange.
What model EOTech was it, and do you know the year of manufacture?
chavez_e_chavez
07-02-10, 15:40
the recoil affected the older versions of the Eotech causing issues with battery wiring....have not hear do any probs with the battery compartment switched
What model EOTech was it, and do you know the year of manufacture?
I dont know EOtech models very well. Its one of the N cell versions. It has built in ARMS mounts (which let it slide on the rail). It didnt need a riser to have a lower 1/3rd co witness. Absolutely no clue on year of manufacture.
Rick
motorolahamm
07-04-10, 07:39
The Corps is still using the 555 as an issue item to select units.
I didnt mean to make that statement mean anything more than what it is at face value. With a sample of 5-6 ODAs and 2 rotations of Rangers without an aimpoint is a significant sample size however.
And what I put up was far less a matter of sharpshooting you than qualifying the statement for those with lesser ability to pay attention to detail, keeping it to said face value. It was for their reading comprehension, and not a ping on you or your observations.
We've had a run of simpletons in the recent past, and they are still learning the difference between fact vs. truth, knowledge vs. belief. Stuff needs to be broken down Barney-style, at times.
controlledpairs2
07-04-10, 13:00
i know this wont help the overall topic, but the vast majority of the regiment guys i've been working with use eotechs. they seem very happy with 'em.
i know this wont help the overall topic, but the vast majority of the regiment guys i've been working with use eotechs. they seem very happy with 'em.
Data on EOTechs seems to be all over the place. One group of guys will report nothing but success with maybe a dead battery here or there, and another group will report having a box of broken units waiting to be repaired. One person will say an he's never seen a group EOTechs make it though a class without one having some kind of problem, and another will report a class full of EOTechs that made it without an issue.
And things get muddied further when we don't have the details. Was the optic being run with Lithiums or cheap alkalines? What model was it? When was the optic made (post Revision F)? It is my understanding that some of the older units were more prone to failure, however it sometimes seems some of the new models (excluding the XPS) haven't substantially improved matters. I recall another thread where some people reported issues even with the latest revision.
However, this is all hard to discern when we simply get a report of a failure without specific details about the model that went down. Otherwise, you run the risk of having old models with known issues "muddying the waters" with respect to the ones produced more recently.
And again, I have no stake in any of these companies. I prefer Aimpoints myself overall. However, my own curiosity simply wants as much quality, objective, first hand knowledge on any product as possible. The EOTechs have caught my attention due to conflicting reports from knowledgeable individuals who have experience with a relatively large number of them.
sniperfrog
07-04-10, 15:20
The biggest thing I don't like on Eotechs is the on/off buttons. they can be kinda of difficult to press with gloves on and it's easy to accidently hit the NVG button in the middle, which, as you know makes the reticle only visible with NVGs on. I see guys do that alot and then you have to turn it off and back on, hit the button 20 times to bring up the reticle, etc....with the Aimpoint, just spin the dial.
I see guys do that alot and then you have to turn it off and back on, hit the button 20 times to bring up the reticle
EOTechs come on in the middle setting, correct? Why would the button need to be hit 20 times after turning it on with either arrow?
chavez_e_chavez
07-04-10, 16:02
EOTechs come on in the middle setting, correct? Why would the button need to be hit 20 times after turning it on with either arrow?
agreed , mine seems like it comes on the same brightness which i shut it off from previously.. also i have one built in apr-may..
An N-cell model with ARMS mounts? As far as I know, that's never been a combination you'd find in a production Eotech.
The Eotechs with the ARMS mounts are the newer 553s and such which take the CR123s.
Also, it IS important, as mentioned, to know if the batteries being used were alkalines or lithiums.
It specifically states in the manual for the SU-231/PEQ that lithiums will work better than alkaline in colder weather but they will NOT allow the Eotech to use the low batter warning that the alkalines will. I do not know why this is, maybe due to how the voltage drops gradually on an alkaline but perhaps cuts off with a lithium.
Basically, when using a lithium battery, you won't get the warning feature where the reticle flashes for a few seconds when initially turned on.
I don't know what came with my new 553 that was dated from March of '10, but they are working fine. I have a stash of CR123s in my SOPMOD stock for the SF 600 Scout but I don't know if they are alkaline or lithium. I think they are alkaline but I'll have to check them and perhaps find a good deal on alkalines.
On another note, I've found that my mk18mod1 clone (with 12.5" Centurion Arms barrel) is more accurate for me at distances of ~225yds with the Eotech as opposed to the H1 with 4MOA dot that I had. I specifically traded out the Aimpoint so I could get this Eotech, the third (or fourth?) I've ever owned. I have always loved the 1/3MOA dot in the middle. Are they still 1/3? I know they used to be in the 55x and 51x models. Supposedly our eyes can't really use 1/3MOA so it appears the same as a 1MOA.
Regardless, I like this thing but it's a bit long. Kind of has to sit on the DD RIS II OR be back up against my DD BIS.
It seems to be a split 50/50 with the guys in my unit running Elcan vs Eotechs, maybe a couple guys here and there running an ACOG. For the most part most of our Aimpoints have been turned in. I run an Eotech, over an Elcan just mainly because I don't like the scope shadow if I need to aquire a target real fast. But the Elcans are sure nice and clear.
I do not know why this is, maybe due to how the voltage drops gradually on an alkaline but perhaps cuts off with a lithium. That's basically it.
Basically, when using a lithium battery, you won't get the warning feature where the reticle flashes for a few seconds when initially turned on. You may get it, but because of the above, you need to do an immediate battery change; there's little to no grace period, which applies to many devices that can use either alkalines or lithiums.
I have a stash of CR123s in my SOPMOD stock for the SF 600 Scout but I don't know if they are alkaline or lithium. I think they are alkaline but I'll have to check them and perhaps find a good deal on alkalines.
Shouldn't be. The 123A battery should be exclusively lithium. All the CR/DL/CL/whichever prefixes are slapped on there by the particular manufacturer and mean nothing functional or derivative.
QuietShootr
07-05-10, 17:54
Shouldn't be. The 123A battery should be exclusively lithium. All the CR/DL/CL/whichever prefixes are slapped on there by the particular manufacturer and mean nothing functional or derivative.
Correct. 123s are lithiums only.
My mistake. I dont know batteries like I dont know EOtech nomenclature. I thought N-Cells and 123s were the same. It was running 123s. The ones the army issue ones that come in the brown box with each battery individually wrapped in brown and clear plastic.
Rick
THANK'S Guys for all the assorted replies ! I had no idea that my question would elicit such a response. My original query stems from some comments I overheard at the range recently, regarding continuing problems with the EoTech series. I've also read that some "high profile" law enf. trainers strongly prefer the AimPoint to the EoTech for certain reasons, although there was no mention of what "those" reasons were. As I'm always trying to persuade my Dept. to issue the EoTech instead of the AimPoint, I try to keep aware of any "issues" pertaining to either of the systems. I guess what I really wanted to know in my original posting was; Are the SOCOM boys still using the Eotech's in combat, & if so, does SOCOM as a whole tend to prefer them to the AimPoint's ? Why ask as to what SOCOM is using ? It has nothing at all to do with the "coolness" factor, just that SF usually run a good many rounds through their weapons, & do tend to engage in numerous firefights. Please don't misunderstand my referring to SOCOM & not to all the regular line units. ALL the troops overseas seem to getting their share of trigger time, but the SF guy's are allowed to use pretty much what they desire, which many times is not the case with regular units who must use what theyr'e issued. My reasoning was that if the EoTech's are standing up & working well for the trigger puller's over there, they should be more than sufficient for us folks back home.
THANK'S again for all the replies, I really appreciate everyone's input.
sniperfrog
07-06-10, 13:55
EOTechs come on in the middle setting, correct? Why would the button need to be hit 20 times after turning it on with either arrow?
I have seen some Eotechs that, for whatever reason, seem to start out at the lowest setting when you turn them on. It could have just been that it was really bright out and required a brighter reticle than the "middle" setting to see. Now the "20 times" was somewhat of an exaggeration. My point was that the buttons, to me, are kind of a pain in the ass. Like when going from indoors to outdoors and the reticle washes out. Instead of a quick turn of the dial (Aimpoint), you have to press the little button a bunch of times to bring the reticle up.
I just don't like EOtechs that much. But, unfortunatley, that's what I have to use at work :(.
variablebinary
07-06-10, 14:47
Are EO-Tech's Preferred For Close to Medium Range Engagements by U.S. SOCCOM Guys ?
That depends. If you have the access, you'll find several different optics in play at any given time.
THANK'S Guys for all the assorted replies ! I had no idea that my question would elicit such a response. My original query stems from some comments I overheard at the range recently, regarding continuing problems with the EoTech series. I've also read that some "high profile" law enf. trainers strongly prefer the AimPoint to the EoTech for certain reasons, although there was no mention of what "those" reasons were. As I'm always trying to persuade my Dept. to issue the EoTech instead of the AimPoint, I try to keep aware of any "issues" pertaining to either of the systems. I guess what I really wanted to know in my original posting was; Are the SOCOM boys still using the Eotech's in combat, & if so, does SOCOM as a whole tend to prefer them to the AimPoint's ? Why ask as to what SOCOM is using ? It has nothing at all to do with the "coolness" factor, just that SF usually run a good many rounds through their weapons, & do tend to engage in numerous firefights. Please don't misunderstand my referring to SOCOM & not to all the regular line units. ALL the troops overseas seem to getting their share of trigger time, but the SF guy's are allowed to use pretty much what they desire, which many times is not the case with regular units who must use what theyr'e issued. My reasoning was that if the EoTech's are standing up & working well for the trigger puller's over there, they should be more than sufficient for us folks back home.
THANK'S again for all the replies, I really appreciate everyone's input.
You do need to take into consideration the difference in mission. They decide when and where they are going to hit a target. They turn on the EOtechs, execute the mission,and then they are done. They have the luxury of changing out the batteries after EVERY mission when they are back on the FOB if they desire. A police officer doesnt necessarily have the same options. The rifle rides in the car ready to go at a moment of someone elses choosing, not yours. Its a different world.
Rick
You do need to take into consideration the difference in mission. They decide when and where they are going to hit a target. They turn on the EOtechs, execute the mission,and then they are done. They have the luxury of changing out the batteries after EVERY mission when they are back on the FOB if they desire. A police officer doesnt necessarily have the same options. The rifle rides in the car ready to go at a moment of someone elses choosing, not yours. Its a different world.
Rick
This is along the same lines as what I originally posted.
OP, be careful about going around looking for examples to use as justifications for a foregone conclusion to make gear selection for a use other than the examples you find.
EOTechs are part of the block II package so most units are using that. While they may still have Comp Ms in the inventory, they usually have years of abuse on them and even if someone did prefer them, they'd probably defer to the EoTechs as they are generally no older than 3 years now. As far as reliability in SOCOM unit vs. riding around in a police car, I'm going to go ahead and say jumping out of planes puts more abuse on an optic. EoTechs are reliable and have plenty of battery life. I have seen a few exhibit that flickering problem someone mentioned in that memo though. Having been issued both, I preferred the EoTech. It had a larger window, a better reticule, used 123as instead of that weird watch battery, and actually keep their zero on weapons like the mk46/48.
I wasnt refering to the Police job as being more rough on the gun. It is most definately not. However the ability to have the Aimpoint on at all times does seem to be a useful feature. My T1 has been on for over 2 years now. And its never lost zero.
Rick
LOL the larger window thing again LMAO
open both eyes its, RDO there is no such thing as FOV so to speak
Kyle Defoor
07-09-10, 08:41
Overwhelming majority of SEAL , Ranger, and SF ,on the East coast at least, use the EOTech. I see these guys on a bi-monthly basis in classes, and they are from different units. I would say about 80/20 EOTech.
As most of them will tell you- the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. You must consider as well that the majority work mostly at night and really don't care one way or the other what red dot they have as long as they have one (as a precaution).
On an interesting note to this, there are now a huge number of guys who've never engaged anyone with a red dot but have multiple engagements at night.
The XPS is making it's debut now in a few units. I predict it will be huge. The newest version will be a big hit as well, I'll be doing a review in the coming weeks once I receive. One thing guys like about the XPS is it's short length (for battery changes on it AND lasers, and room for other things), and the fact that it has CR 123 batts, which is now consistant with laser, and most flashlight batts they use now.
As for the old 552s and etc. that had the battery terminal problems, I have a step-by-step how-to on my blog about how to fix it permanently. I've done it 20-25 times for guys on the range and never had one fail yet. If you do this you can talk people out of their EOTech for cheap!
For me:
1. Eotech is faster to get on target due to the ring reticle. The ring can also be used as a range estimator and for holdover.
2. Aimpoint has loooooooong battery life.
The XPS is making it's debut now in a few units. I predict it will be huge.
Agreed, those things are well worth keeping an eye on. It's looking like a pretty damned good design. Just having a battery compartment perpendicular to recoil, alone, has made a helluva difference in the reliability of a lot of optic devices.
Agreed, those things are well worth keeping an eye on. It's looking like a pretty damned good design. Just having a battery compartment perpendicular to recoil, alone, has made a helluva difference in the reliability of a lot of optic devices.
The XPS is the first Eothing in a long time that actually interested me enough to buy one. I have it on a BCM 14.5" middy with PWS brake and so far am pretty happy with the combination. The BCM shoots so flat that it's the first gun I thought I could really take advantage of the supposed speed advantage of the larger reticule.
Belmont31R
07-09-10, 11:36
I just got that EXPS 3-0, and the reticle appears canted in the window.....:rolleyes: It looks slightly rotated counter clockwise. If I lined up an edge or piece of tape across the back parallel to the two side hash marks on the ring its not level with the window.
The mount works ok so far. Its easily adjusted to fit the rail, and locks on tight. Also has a button in front of the lever that has to be slid back before the lever can be pulled out to take the optic off. Pretty neat setup IMO.
Its definitely bulkier and heavier than a T1.
I also think its less environmentally light sensitive than a T1 meaning a comfortable light setting indoors you can still pick up the reticle fairly well when going outdoors in the sun. With the T1 with no bloom indoors its very hard to pick up the dot outside. Depends on the background so obviously it gets worse against something light as opposed to something dark.
But yes most military people are just using what they are issued. Ive seen all manner of optics most of the time with little rhyme or reason. The brigade recon team guys I worked with had a bunch of MARS sights, some EOTechs, some Aimpoints, and ACOG's.
trukreltrog
07-09-10, 11:38
Overwhelming majority of SEAL , Ranger, and SF ,on the East coast at least, use the EOTech. I see these guys on a bi-monthly basis in classes, and they are from different units. I would say about 80/20 EOTech.
As most of them will tell you- the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. You must consider as well that the majority work mostly at night and really don't care one way or the other what red dot they have as long as they have one (as a precaution).
On an interesting note to this, there are now a huge number of guys who've never engaged anyone with a red dot but have multiple engagements at night.
The XPS is making it's debut now in a few units. I predict it will be huge. The newest version will be a big hit as well, I'll be doing a review in the coming weeks once I receive. One thing guys like about the XPS is it's short length (for battery changes on it AND lasers, and room for other things), and the fact that it has CR 123 batts, which is now consistant with laser, and most flashlight batts they use now.
As for the old 552s and etc. that had the battery terminal problems, I have a step-by-step how-to on my blog about how to fix it permanently. I've done it 20-25 times for guys on the range and never had one fail yet. If you do this you can talk people out of their EOTech for cheap!
Would you mind providing a link? I looked around your two website links, didn't find it. Thanks,,, :)
GLOCKMASTER
07-09-10, 11:52
Would you mind providing a link? I looked around your two website links, didn't find it. Thanks,,, :)
Not Kyle but here you go. (http://www.kyledefoor.com/2009/12/mounting-tips-and-eotech-secret.html)
Not Kyle but here you go. (http://www.kyledefoor.com/2009/12/mounting-tips-and-eotech-secret.html)
Good stuff there - thanks.
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