View Full Version : Utah - No permit concealed carry?
It looks like Utah may be following in the steps of Arizona and nothing could make me happier, unless of course it was Nevada. :D
http://sltrib.com/sltrib/home/49849261-76/gun-utah-carry-lawmakers.html.csp
Some state lawmakers want to loosen Utah’s already liberal gun laws by following the Last Frontier’s example and allowing any legal gun owner to pack a concealed weapon without a permit.
Americans’ constitutional gun rights don’t start with permit training, and they aren’t restricted to the home, said Rep. Stephen Sandstrom, R-Orem. This summer he is crafting a bill based on an Alaska model to remove the permit requirement while continuing to provide the option for those who want a license that other states with gun restrictions will honor. He had been calling the proposal “Alaska carry,” but after this week’s Supreme Court ruling on handguns he is pitching it as “constitutional carry.”
“The Second Amendment gives us the right to keep and bear arms,” Sandstrom said, emphasizing the “and.” “It doesn’t just say ‘to keep arms.’ ”
More than 226,000 people — including 125,000 Utahns — had Utah concealed-weapons permits as of March 31, according to state records, and 13,122 got their permits during the first quarter of the year.
Utah traditionally has had some of the most pro-gun laws in the country. The Legislature has overridden local restrictions, including a gun ban on the University of Utah campus. This year lawmakers followed Montana in exempting local gun makers from federal restrictions, a constitutional showdown that Montana gun-rights advocates are attempting to validate in court.
Utahns already have an implied right to carry guns in plain view to most places, because there is no law banning it. To carry a concealed weapon, though, the state requires gun owners to take a safety course, submit to a background check and pay a $65 application fee. The state does not require a shooting proficiency test, which has caused several states including Nevada to stop recognizing Utah permits. Renewals and updated background checks are required every five years.
The Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification conducts daily checks of Utah court records to determine whether permit holders are still eligible to possess weapons. The bureau searches national databases every few months. Alcohol violations, protective orders, firearm offenses, domestic violence and felonies are common reasons for losing a permit. Revocations spiked from 75 in 1999 to 256 in 2000, the year the bureau began the daily checks. The state revoked 409 permits last year.
Sandstrom said he is meeting with gun-rights advocates and plans a bill for consideration in the next legislative session. He claims wide support among House colleagues, and Rep. Curtis Oda, R-Clearfield, is one of the likely co-sponsors.
RancidSumo
07-01-10, 11:35
Awesome news! Hopefully it continues its spread and ends up in CO and in WY soon as well.
Speaking of which, didn't WY have this coming down the pipes not too long ago? Whatever happened to that?
Speaking of which, didn't WY have this coming down the pipes not too long ago? Whatever happened to that?
Usually I try to stay on top of these things and especially when I start the thread. :eek: Here's the M4C thread on the Wyoming deal https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=47593 but I do not know the final outcome. That thread went way south so I decided not to participate in it anymore.
RancidSumo
07-01-10, 12:00
Well I found the unfortunate news-
http://tribtown.trib.com/post/wypolitics/categories/FC27BE9B-166F-4C89-A267-36595AF9D309.html
Conceal-carry bill martyred for less-controversial bills
Posted by: Jeremy at 5:55PM EST on February 26, 2010
A Senate committee on Friday let legislation die that would allow concealed weapons to be carried without a permit in Wyoming.
But Senate Labor Committee members didn't necessarily block the bill because they opposed the proposal, which has been one of the most talked-about bills in the 2010 legislative budget session.
With only one week left in the 20-day session, Labor Committee members felt that the inevitable debate over the concealed-weapons bill would take up so much time that it would prevent other bills from being addressed, said state Sen. Bruce Burns, R-Sheridan, one of five Labor Committee members.
"The question is, how many bills were going to die if we passed this," Burns said.
Labor Committee members effectively "pocket-vetoed" the bill by refusing to add it to Friday's committee meeting agenda. Under legislative rules, any piece of legislation that didn't pass out of committee by Friday was automatically killed.
At least one committee member was a likely supporter of the concealed-weapons bill, House Bill 113: Senate Judiciary Committee Chair Tony Ross, R-Cheyenne, was a co-sponsor of the legislation.
I just sent a message to one of the Representatives that I know and who voted for the bill in the house asking about it and its future so we'll see what he has to say.
ETA: He states that he is sure the bill will be back "every year from now until eternity". Hopefully it passes one of these years.
Anyway, now that that is over with, back to Utah.
ETA: He states that he is sure the bill will be back "every year from now until eternity". Hopefully it passes one of these years.
Anyway, now that that is over with, back to Utah.
Hopefully Utah and Wyoming will see the positive results that will be going into effect this month in Arizona.
Back to Utah... I sincerely hope this passes and the people of Utah can exercise their Constitutional right to bear arms without having to pay a tax, be treated like a criminal and needing the government's permission to protect themselves and their families.
I am with you on that Irish. Hopefully the momentum will take NV, CO, MT and ID down this same path.
Isn't Utah one of two states (the other being FL) that out of staters are rushing to get permits for due to their wide-ranging reciprocity agreements? I predict a move to no permit carry there will likely see many of those states rescinding their reciprocity agreements.
Isn't Utah one of two states (the other being FL) that out of staters are rushing to get permits for due to their wide-ranging reciprocity agreements? I predict a move to no permit carry there will likely see many of those states rescinding their reciprocity agreements.
If they do it like Alaska, they will leave the permit in place and make permitless carry a second option. That way you can get the permit if you want to take advantage of reciprocity.
variablebinary
07-02-10, 06:01
I'd much rather Utah dumped vehicle registration, which is the biggest crock of shit.
Isn't Utah one of two states (the other being FL) that out of staters are rushing to get permits for due to their wide-ranging reciprocity agreements?
They've been saying that for years. The fact is it's probably the best bang for your buck when getting an out of state CCW so anybody getting one has done a bit of research.
If they do it like Alaska, they will leave the permit in place and make permitless carry a second option. That way you can get the permit if you want to take advantage of reciprocity.
Arizona is going to be the same way in a couple of days. Not to mention in AZ you need a permit to carry in establishments that sell booze.
Isn't Utah one of two states (the other being FL) that out of staters are rushing to get permits for due to their wide-ranging reciprocity agreements? I predict a move to no permit carry there will likely see many of those states rescinding their reciprocity agreements.
This view is based on a complete misunderstanding of Utah's strategy. The new law, when/if passed, will allow ANY U.S. citizen to carry a concealed weapon in Utah with no concealed weapon permit. In addition, Utah will continue to issue concealed weapon permits to anyone who applies for them through the regular process. The new law will not in any way degrade the concealed weapon permits that Utah issues, so it would not affect reciprocity agreements. In fact, Utah is looking at adding a shooting proficiency section to its concealed weapon permit application process in order to gain recognition in even more states.
Further, please note that at present, any U.S. citizen who DOES NOT HAVE A CONCEALED WEAPON PERMIT, may keep a loaded firearm in his home, temporary domicile (motel room, Winnebago, tent, etc.), place of business and AUTOMOBILE. In Utah, a concealed weapon permit is not required in order to have a concealed weapon in those locations.
Also please note that in Utah a semi auto is considered UNLOADED if the chamber is empty even if the magazine is full. So that gives a viable option to persons traveling in Utah without a concealed weapon permit - just keep the chamber empty.
Also please note that in Utah a semi auto is considered UNLOADED if the chamber is empty even if the magazine is full. So that gives a viable option to persons traveling in Utah without a concealed weapon permit - just keep the chamber empty.
And for wheelguns, you need to pull the trigger twice to go bang and it is considered unloaded for things like open carry (open carry of an unloaded firearm is OK with unloaded being a legal definition).
On wheelguns, to play it safe, most people leave 2 chambers empty though I guess technically, you would just need to leave the one empty that would be next when you pulled the trigger the first time.
The operative keyword in Utah for "unloaded" is that it must require 2 actions in order to go bang. Rack the slide and pull trigger or pull trigger twice on a wheelgun.
CarlosDJackal
07-02-10, 14:59
I guess this means that getting a non-resident Utah permit would be a waste of time, huh? ;)
I'd much rather Utah dumped vehicle registration, which is the biggest crock of shit.
Off topic but is it bad there? I pay almost $1200 a year for 2 cars in NV. It's based on the vehicle's value so if you have a new, nice car you get raped.
I guess this means that getting a non-resident Utah permit would be a waste of time, huh? ;)
Nope, still good in over 30 other states.
Off topic but is it bad there? I pay almost $1200 a year for 2 cars in NV. It's based on the vehicle's value so if you have a new, nice car you get raped.
No it is not bad. I don't remember exactly but have been paying somewhere like $300-$400 on two 2006 vehicles including a Dodge 2500 MegaCab Cummins (ie, not 2 KIA or other micro cars). I believe it is based purely on age.
Still sucks though.
I guess this means that getting a non-resident Utah permit would be a waste of time, huh? ;)
Yes it would. As I don't believe there is a specific non resident permit (like some states have). I believe that there is only one Utah permit, for both residents and non-residents.
Yes it would. As I don't believe there is a specific non resident permit (like some states have). I believe that there is only one Utah permit, for both residents and non-residents.
As an example here's my out of state permit. Not sure if it differs from in state residents or not.
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4684/stuff0141.jpg
As an example here's my out of state permit. Not sure if it differs from in state residents or not.
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4684/stuff0141.jpg
Except that mine has my mug on it, and my data, yours looks exactly like mine. No different notation or anything.
When I moved from Utah to New Hampshire a while back, and then renewed my Utah permit, there was no difference except having a New Hampshire address on it. Then I moved back and renewed again and got the same permit.
So unlike some states, there is no special permit for non residents.
At least there is progress somewhere. You guys have no idea how fortunate you are to even have this discussion.
I just had to say that. Carry on. :mad:
arizonaranchman
07-05-10, 18:33
Great to hear some good news for a change...
I am optimistic that a number of states will eventually go to permitless CCW and issue them on a voluntary basis.
Whether or not you live in those states, support them any way you can.
variablebinary
07-05-10, 23:11
Off topic but is it bad there? I pay almost $1200 a year for 2 cars in NV. It's based on the vehicle's value so if you have a new, nice car you get raped.
It cost be about $600 for both our cars this year
It's an utterly useless, bullshit tax that serves no purpose other than to rape the people
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