Carbine versus Middy?

[Blstr88]

Hey guys, new to the site and ARs in general...I made a post weeks back asking some dumb newbie questions and it got flamed then shut down :p

Well I took everyones advice and did a LOT of reading and no posting. However I came across this and couldnt find a real specific answer no matter where I looked.

Carbines versus Middys...a lot of posts here mention the general "issues" with each but there wasnt anything that I could find speaking directly about the issues. I was wanting to get the shortest AR I could without going to SBR, but if theres a variety of issues with a 14.5" barrel over a 16" barrel, Ill stick with a 16.

Also kind of a "newbie" question, but I cant seem to find a specific answer...carbines are 14.5" barrels, and middys are 16" barrels, is this correct?

[LOKNLOD]

Also kind of a "newbie" question, but I cant seem to find a specific answer...carbines are 14.5" barrels, and middys are 16" barrels, is this correct?

When you hear carbine vs. middy discussed, it's in reference to the length of the gas system, not barrel length. Carbine gas systems are roughly 7" long, and midlengths are 9" long. You can find 16" barrels with either gas system, and 14.5" barrels with either system (although 14.5" with midlength gas is a relatively new configuration to become available).

[markm]

.carbines are 14.5" barrels, and middys are 16" barrels, is this correct?

There are 14.5 middies too. I have an evaluation thread in AR technical forums testing the BCM 14.5 middy. I plan to run it head to head against the Carbine 14.5 in Day 3 or 4 of the testing.

I hope to get out this weekend and get some more shooting done.

[tylerw02]

Your question was already answered, but I'll throw this in for consideration:

Its hard to beat a 16" middy.

[Blstr88]

Ah ok, so the gas system is what determines carbine or middy...that might be why I didnt find anything since I assumed it was barrel length and focused my search on that.

Are there any particular manufacturers that offer a middy, and others that dont? Or do all the big companies offer a variety of gas system lengths that include the 9"?

Ive spent a long bit of time going through the "M4 Comparison Chart" thats been sticky'ed...

I know I want a 1:7 barrel and 5.56 (which all the ones on that chart are anyway)...so basically any of the top 5 on that chart will do (Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, or LMT), but to help narrow it more: do any of those 5 NOT offer a midlength gas system?

The chart itself doesnt talk at all about the gas system length...but I can only assume its due to those companies offering a variety of them?

And I know from reading various posts, theres nothing saying I cant buy something like a S&WMP15 and get a 1:7 barrel and middy gas system for it...but I'd prefer to start with what I want rather than buy a gun and then need to order different parts for it that same day.

Thanks!

[jaxman7]

Look forward to hearing the results of that comparison Mark. Thanks,

-Jax


There are 14.5 middies too. I have an evaluation thread in AR technical forums testing the BCM 14.5 middy. I plan to run it head to head against the Carbine 14.5 in Day 3 or 4 of the testing.

I hope to get out this weekend and get some more shooting done.

[markm]

Look forward to hearing the results of that comparison Mark. Thanks,

-Jax

I'm wanting to get video, and get some full auto run too. But half the state is shut down due to fire restrictions....

I've got a simple full auto comparison test ready to go... But video will illustrate it better than stills.

[Failure2Stop]

Ah ok, so the gas system is what determines carbine or middy...that might be why I didnt find anything since I assumed it was barrel length and focused my search on that.

Are there any particular manufacturers that offer a middy, and others that dont? Or do all the big companies offer a variety of gas system lengths that include the 9"?

Ive spent a long bit of time going through the "M4 Comparison Chart" thats been sticky'ed...

I know I want a 1:7 barrel and 5.56 (which all the ones on that chart are anyway)...so basically any of the top 5 on that chart will do (Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, or LMT), but to help narrow it more: do any of those 5 NOT offer a midlength gas system?

The chart itself doesnt talk at all about the gas system length...but I can only assume its due to those companies offering a variety of them?

And I know from reading various posts, theres nothing saying I cant buy something like a S&WMP15 and get a 1:7 barrel and middy gas system for it...but I'd prefer to start with what I want rather than buy a gun and then need to order different parts for it that same day.

Thanks!

1- The comparison chart is exclusively oriented toward M4 style 16" carbines.

2- The top middie manufacturers are generally recognized as BCM, Noveske, KAC, DD, and Sabre; with BCM, KAC and Noveske with the best/longest track record. The DD offering seems to be a good platform, but is relatively new to the market. ArmaLite has been making middie systems for some time, but are still ArmaLites with their little quirks.

3- The gas system is not an add-on piece; either the barrel is ported at a mid-length position or it isn't. There is no such animal as a middie 6920. One could buy a complete M&P15 and then remove the barrel and replace it with a middie barrel, but thats juice isn't really worth the squeeze. Depending on your budget and performance requirements I would recommend BCM, Noveske, or KAC.

ETA-
4- The 14.5 middies seem the be generating a pretty loyal following, but I would caution going that way on a first gun due to the restrictions the pinned/welded FH will bring.

[petergun870]

Middy all the way there more reliable and put less wear on your parts plus they look cooler:D

[13grandy]

so far it looks like you're wanting a DI rather than a piston? From the way the first question was posed its hard to tell if you're more interested in the length of the gas system or the barrel length. If it's barrel length you may wanna consider your ultimate goal for the rifle, like are you using it for LE purposes and can you keep it in the passenger compartment with you or not. Just asking to clarify what you're use and ultimate desire from the question is...

[ge_traveler]

The brands mentioned thus far are the ones to focus on. BCM and DD are my top picks. For the money, they are hard to beat.

They both offer carbine and mid-length systems. For a first rifle, I agree with F2S, the 16" would be your best bet. If you get a 14.5", NFA rules apply, meaning you would have to get the flash hidder pinned or go the SBR route. Once the FH is pinned, it limits your possibilities for any changes in the future. Therefore, you need to know exactly what you want ahead of time. That is why a 16" barrel is nice. You can change parts a bit easier as your needs (wants) change.

Going with a 16" barrel, I would go with the mid-length system. There are numerous write-ups on this site discussing the benefits of the mid-length over the carbine, although it all comes down to your needs. I own both in 16".

Grant at G&R Tactical can help you through your decision. He has plenty of BCM and DD stuff to browse over, among other things.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MID-750-C

[Blstr88]

so far it looks like you're wanting a DI rather than a piston? From the way the first question was posed its hard to tell if you're more interested in the length of the gas system or the barrel length. If it's barrel length you may wanna consider your ultimate goal for the rifle, like are you using it for LE purposes and can you keep it in the passenger compartment with you or not. Just asking to clarify what you're use and ultimate desire from the question is...

Thanks a ton for these responses guys, certainly helps!

As for DI versus piston, I figured one newb question at a time :confused:

But since you brought it up...from my readings (mostly on this site, but a few other AR sites as well) I gathered for the most part that a DI gun would be a better choice for my first one? I understand the basics of DI for the most part, but havent really dove into piston just yet.

Mainly I was aiming towards keeping the overall length of the gun as short as possible. I dont want to deal with NFA rules so 16" barrel will do for sure. I guess I was under the impression that barrel length and gas system are inter-related...I know now that they're not.

But everyone here seems to agree that a 16" barrel with a middy gas system is a good move...so I'll focus my efforts on that. I just want a high quality, reliable gun that will work when I want it to. It's not for LE uses (or anything where lives depend on it).