View Full Version : Larue OBR 556 are online
http://larueosr.com/lt556-16.aspx
This was pretty much the only long gun I saw at Shot this year that I knew I had to have. The hand guard feels great and the entire package is ultra-light.
That said...Ordered ^o^
chavez_e_chavez
07-01-10, 15:26
thats sure one purdy rifle..I wish I had 2 grand to drop on it..Larue makes stellar products and Im a huge fan of there mounts..etc// and dillo dust :)
That thing looks amazing.
thopkins22
07-01-10, 16:21
What's up with the receiver plate?:confused: Kinda thinking it's on backwards.
Belmont31R
07-01-10, 16:27
Does look like it.
While it looks a nice setup I only find a limited use for medium stainless barrels, and I already have a Stealth. Wouldn't really do many any good to buy another limited use weapon.
What's up with the receiver plate?:confused: Kinda thinking it's on backwards.
At least they did a good job of staking it. :D
http://larueosr.com/lt556-16.aspx
This was pretty much the only long gun I saw at Shot this year that I knew I had to have. The hand guard feels great and the entire package is ultra-light.
That said...Ordered ^o^
Lucky $%^@&*
I see you're in NJ, what are they doing to make in NJ legal as far as stock and muzzle device?
Pinning the stock one click open and throwing an FCS556 on the front end. I have to rock the 16.1" (was hoping for a 14.5").
j
Pinning the stock one click open and throwing an FCS556 on the front end. I have to rock the 16.1" (was hoping for a 14.5").
j
Pinned FSD566? Can't have a threaded bbl with the ability to accept a muzzle device that threads on right?
I am so jealous!
I wonder how this would compare to the Noveske, would have to be a VIS Lo-Pro with switch block to have the same features like the adjustable gas block, monolithic upper and so on. The Noveske is roughly $400 more.
Hmmm...
Interesting...
I already sent an email to LaRue about it. Let's see what happens.....
parishioner
07-01-10, 17:22
I already sent an email to LaRue about it. Let's see what happens.....
I hope its not like the les baer deal.
mrwickwire
07-01-10, 18:11
These questions always come to me when everyone has left for the day. Does anyone know if they will be selling the 7.62 or 5.56 upper alone? Or, do you have to buy the whole rifle?
Considering that the whole stock and receiver extension will turn as it is set now, I hope they don't come back with a stupid response.
I hope its not like the les baer deal.
These questions always come to me when everyone has left for the day. Does anyone know if they will be selling the 7.62 or 5.56 upper alone? Or, do you have to buy the whole rifle?
Whole rifle. These look cool, but from handling them at SHOT they were just like Larue's other offerings...heavy.
I'd like to see the weight stats on these.
http://larueosr.com/images/products/detail/OBR556_Profile.6.jpg
ETA: Actually, it is right on the LT Tactical website...
- Weight of 16” model (with 30 round magazine): 8.79 lbs
thopkins22
07-02-10, 13:03
The plate on the pictured rifle has been reversed now. Presumably they got in a hurry to get a rifle to the photographer and made a little mistake. It happens.
Also happy that they didn't try to justify it like Les Baer did...they just fixed it.
QuietShootr
07-02-10, 13:36
Tell me why I'd rather have that than an MRP?
Tell me why I'd rather have that than an MRP?
You enjoy:
-Heavy Guns
-Long waiting times between ordering and shipping
-Getting a free hat
Tell me why I'd rather have that than an MRP?
*It does not use proprietary barrels.
*While it may be a little overweight compared to the current trend of lightweight/pencil profile barreled uppers, it is still probably lighter than an MRP.
*You want to, (and are capable of) squeeking every last bit of accuracy out of it as possible.
I have no need for a SS barreled 5.56 gun myself, but im sure there are many that want one.
You enjoy:
-Long waiting times between ordering and shipping
I think your .308 OBR experience is the exception, rather than the rule with LaRue's customer service/shipping efficiency. Now that the .308 OBR's are in full production, they seem to have gotten the whole order placed/order shipped thing running smoothly.
Every single one of my many orders placed thru the LaRue site or over the phone have been handled efficiently & smoothly.
They fixed it, yet they still don't stake the castle nut. It's obvious to me that they did something. When I viewed them yesterday pic#4 clearly showed it was installed wrong.
Pic#4 is now pic#9. Why people still insist on not staking or forgetting to do so when they are selling the "best AR since sliced bread" for 2000.00 is beyond me.
The plate on the pictured rifle has been reversed now. Presumably they got in a hurry to get a rifle to the photographer and made a little mistake. It happens.
Also happy that they didn't try to justify it like Les Baer did...they just fixed it.
thopkins22
07-02-10, 15:09
They fixed it, yet they still don't stake the castle nut. It's obvious to me that they did something. When I viewed them yesterday pic#4 clearly showed it was installed wrong.
It was staked yesterday...just on backwards.:p
I don't know about it. I'm a big fan of their mounts...but I'm not exactly filled with confidence that they've got their ducks in a row as to having assemblers who understand how build a rifle from the ground up.
Chances are that once they realized the mistake yesterday they rushed another one to the photographer so that the mistake was visible for the least amount of time...and of course in the rush had another mistake happen.
ETA:Some of the early pictures of the DDM4 had it without staking as well, but as far as I know all of the guns that actually shipped got a decent whack. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here...but of the long list of things I want to buy(plenty of which is on Larue's site,) this isn't on it.
I think your .308 OBR experience is the exception, rather than the rule with LaRue's customer service/shipping efficiency. Now that the .308 OBR's are in full production, they seem to have gotten the whole order placed/order shipped thing running smoothly.
Oh I have no problem with their order handling normally, but the OBR release was a giant clusterf*^k of a release, and now having shot one I'm glad I didn't get one, it's not the right gun for what I wanted anyways.
I never had a problem with Larue (Mark specifically) until after being very patient I finally decided to call and cancel my order. Without any attitude, or pretense, I thanked them for their time, said I was canceling my order since they had no realistic ETA, and wished them the best of luck. How did they take it? Well a week or so later Mark Larue is making a post on TOS calling me impatient and name checking me for buying an SR-25.
Whatever, Mark. Best of luck, for 2000 bucks I bet it'll be heavy, but machined to perfection. I'd rather rock a BCM or KAC upper.
*It does not use proprietary barrels.
I believe that I read that the OBR uses a proprietary barrel extension, however. There is some discussion about this on TOS.
Belmont31R
07-02-10, 15:58
There is a place for a heavier SS barreled gun but not for what most people are using guns for. Im very happy with my Stealth for what I use it for. With the built in MOA cant on the OBR series I think that is kinda saying its a "precision" gun not a run and gun blaster, and for that weight doesn't really matter as much as it does with other setups. I wouldn't want to run it in a class but then again none of the guns I would do that with are shooting quarter size 10 shot groups.
I wonder if they are gonna pull the 'You have 3 days notice, and the price is going up $500 bucks to $2500' thing like they did with the OBR...except that was $2500 to $3000....:rolleyes:
I have one of their 12" stealth uppers, shortest one they offer, which I'm trying to sell. And despite the size it's heavier than my SR-15 at 16".
I used it for Day 1 of Magpul Carbine 1, that was the last time I did so, it's just pig heavy. As in really heavy.
I handled this at Shot Show quite a bit. I also handled several weapon by LWRCi, the ACR and some of the M4s at the Magpul booth (they were all within 250 feet of each other). Didn't notice the weight at all compared to the other guns and the balance overall was far nicer than the ACR.
I used to rock a 16" MRP. SS barrel, etc, built by the fine folks at MSTN and later "tuned up" by the Magpul Dynamics guys. I ran that for around 2-3 classes and switched over to a Noveske Afghan(with a DD RISII hand guard).
I've had little time to shoot that unfortunately, but I have dry fired that thing for about 2 hours a week for the past year. It also had a SS barrel. No issues with weight.
I am selling that for this now.
Not sure if this will be better but I really liked the hand guard and design of this weapon. Granted it was called the OBR Lite at the time and it's been renamed...but it appears to be exactly what was at Shot.
j
vicious_cb
07-03-10, 08:50
So its a stealth with a new handguard and a top rail that requires special optics mounts? :confused:
trukreltrog
07-03-10, 09:23
I'd like to see the weight stats on these.
http://larueosr.com/images/products/detail/OBR556_Profile.6.jpg
ETA: Actually, it is right on the LT Tactical website...
- Weight of 16” model (with 30 round magazine): 8.79 lbs
Yeah, I really like the new Rail. Very nice,,,:)
Oh I have no problem with their order handling normally, but the OBR release was a giant clusterf*^k of a release, and now having shot one I'm glad I didn't get one, it's not the right gun for what I wanted anyways.
I never had a problem with Larue (Mark specifically) until after being very patient I finally decided to call and cancel my order. Without any attitude, or pretense, I thanked them for their time, said I was canceling my order since they had no realistic ETA, and wished them the best of luck. How did they take it? Well a week or so later Mark Larue is making a post on TOS calling me impatient and name checking me for buying an SR-25.
Whatever, Mark. Best of luck, for 2000 bucks I bet it'll be heavy, but machined to perfection. I'd rather rock a BCM or KAC upper.
From my limited interactions and debates, Mark strikes me as the following type of individual (which speaks a lot about the company):
He's good at making functional, practical mounts and he'll stand behind what he's good at doing 100%. What he's not good at is updating and evolving his designs or at making non-mount products, nor does he take kindly to anyone saying that his products are second to another (nor equal, for that matter). Ironically, that's exactly what put ARMS in the place that they're in (aside from their owner, Dick Swan).
I've had numerous debates with him, namely over Bobro mounts. For those that have used Larue mounts, I'm sure you're well aware that the mounts will, over time, remove anodizing from your rails and can make them look like someone took a file to the underside of your receiver. The Bobro mounts solved this common issue by making mounts that work off of spring compression and indexing tabs. They do everything a Larue does... and they do it in a cleaner, more refined manner. Of course, Mark would not let anyone post a comparison and resorted to name-calling (something about "sissies afraid to get their rails scratched") when the strengths of the Bobro were pointed out. He just did the same thing this past week to BiggerStick47 - moderators had to edit Mark's posts for irrelevant insults / off-topic remarks.
Don't get me wrong, rifles get scratched/worn/marred with use, but if you could built a better mount that doesn't remove your anodizing in the process, then why not? It seems that Larue, however quality their mounts might be, are simply a niche company that isn't doing anything to improve their designs nor are they interested in hearing valid feedback from their customers who they don't have .mil contracts with (not to be confused with their warranty or overall service - they are good at that). That's fine with me, I've simply been sold on other companies that do, and I know MANY others that have done the same.
This isn't a bash Mark fest - it's simply my experiences with him and the shortcomings of their products and they seem to mirror Titleist's post.
In light of that, I truly doubt that the OBR is refined, especially considering (IIRC) it was originally designed as a 7.62 platform. To me, it seems more about branding than some revolutionary Larue design. I'd pass on the rifle and get a KAC or another Noveske for that kind of cash.
Bullwinkle
07-03-10, 11:07
Whole rifle. These look cool, but from handling them at SHOT they were just like Larue's other offerings...heavy.
Really do not know where you came up with that unless you just have personal issues with LaRue. after vising Magpul's booth at Shot we went to LaRue's and the OBR Lite was a dream to handle, in fact it was lighter and easier to mount/swing from target to target than some of the AR's Magpul had on display.
My biggest disappointment in stopping at the LaRue booth was it was so small/tucked back in a corner & ya had to wait in line behind some serious shooters to get to examine the displays :p But we came away with 2 dillos and a calender so I'm not bitching in the least :D
If I did not already have a Stealth (and LaRue lower) ya can bet I'd have a OBR Lite on order as it's one hell of a kick ass weapon.
Really do not know where you came up with that...
I used my hands and arms ;)
...unless you just have personal issues with LaRue.
At the time of SHOT I had my own 7.62 OBR on order, so I would say safely that I didn't have any issues with LaRue at that time of handling that rifle.
Wow, Mark started a thread on TOS specifically trash talking me. I feel the love.
Belmont31R
07-03-10, 15:16
Wow, Mark started a thread on TOS specifically trash talking me. I feel the love.
Just enjoy your weekend man...nothing you can do about it...;)
SeriousStudent
07-03-10, 15:38
Wow, Mark started a thread on TOS specifically trash talking me. I feel the love.
I'll bet you an unopened bottle of Lawry's Seasoning Salt you still get a postcard at Christmas. ;)
Belmont31R
07-03-10, 16:19
Really do not know where you came up with that unless you just have personal issues with LaRue. after vising Magpul's booth at Shot we went to LaRue's and the OBR Lite was a dream to handle, in fact it was lighter and easier to mount/swing from target to target than some of the AR's Magpul had on display.
My biggest disappointment in stopping at the LaRue booth was it was so small/tucked back in a corner & ya had to wait in line behind some serious shooters to get to examine the displays :p But we came away with 2 dillos and a calender so I'm not bitching in the least :D
If I did not already have a Stealth (and LaRue lower) ya can bet I'd have a OBR Lite on order as it's one hell of a kick ass weapon.
You discerned this by mere handling the weapon for a few minutes?
Like it or not stainless medium profile barrels are a lot heavier than even gov profile, and especially SR15 profile. The fanbois on TOS crack me up saying to go lift some weights. All else being equal the lighter gun transitions from target to target quicker. Go take a shot timer, do some drills, and see which is quicker. Ive done it, and the SR15 cuts down on time.
As I said I like my Stealth for what I use it for but its never going to be as handy or as quick as my SR15. You can't defeat physics, and it goes to Newton's Law. It doesn't matter how strong you are the heavier gun is going to take more energy to get it moving, and more energy to get it stopped.
A gun like the OBR Lite fills a certain role, and thats it. Mark can feel someone pissed in his Cheerios for pointing that out but its the truth. Last I checked LT products still conform to the laws of physics. Anyone can drag around a 10lb gun, and make shots but thats not the point. Different setups are more ideal for different scenarios and uses.
PrivateCitizen
07-03-10, 16:37
The OBR looks fantastic. Might be the best looking modern AR/Stoner platform rifle out there.
But I think I am missing the overall point.
In the end, is this just not a AR with proprietary upper/handguard/rail system?
Not trying to diminish it. Just seems more like a direct competitor to a Noveske SS VIS and little else?
Am I missing something critical?
IrishDevil
07-03-10, 17:51
I'm looking forward to picking one of these up. This a precision oriented gun, as most stainless barrel rifles are. The design of the upper/rail/monolithic system seems interesting. I think this will prove to be an excellent recce or spr type rifle.
It all depends on how you use a rifle, I shoot 3-Gun and can appreciate the added accuracy. On average you'll get around 10K out of a stainless barrel, before accuracy degrades. I think it would like to see one of these with something like a Noveske N4 barrel.
The Noveske SS VIS is the cat's ass IMHO and I liked this better than my VIS set up.
But as you can see from this thread, YMMV. I've never owned a Knight's gun. They look cool as hell and they are ultra light, but they are also quite a bit more than these. As I recall the MD ultra light carbine was in the $2800 range?
j
Belmont31R
07-03-10, 20:10
The Noveske SS VIS is the cat's ass IMHO and I liked this better than my VIS set up.
But as you can see from this thread, YMMV. I've never owned a Knight's gun. They look cool as hell and they are ultra light, but they are also quite a bit more than these. As I recall the MD ultra light carbine was in the $2800 range?
j
The MD rifle is a special edition, and comes with extras. The regular SR15 is ~2k so they are the same price for all intents and purposes.
They are geared for different missions though. The SR15 is more suited as a "fighting gun" and the OBR Lite would be better for accuracy AND where you don't need to tote it around doing drills.
"Hitting the gym" is always a good idea but a lighter gun is still going to feel better for doing drills. Doesn't matter how strong or fit you are. Just the way it is. You even see hardcore sheep hunters going for 5lbs guns because every extra ounce/pound adds up humping it around. I guess its "cool" to carry an extra heavy gun like some macho thing but I doubt these people would be feeling the same way if they had to hump it 60lbs of gear, 40lb pack, climb mountains, etc. Although I don't have to do that shit anymore I can appreciate a lighter gun even doing drills at the range. Like I said take the two out, do some timed drills, and the lighter gun will average shorter times. An SR15 with a Triple Tap has very little recoil, muzzle rise, and is extremely quick. I love my Stealth but there's no way its ever going to be as light, handy, and fast on the range as my SR but at the same time Im getting significantly smaller groups with the Stealth. Decide whats important for what you are going to use the gun for, and make your decision based off that not which one is the "coolest" or what brand you like more. You also need to factor in the fact stainless barrels have a much shorter life span given the same usage as CHF CL barrels. Im at around 13k now out of my SR, and that is almost all shooting drills, rapid fire, ect. I would never put a SS barreled gun through that kind of use, and thats not what its purpose is.
+1 to what Belmont said. The SR-15 is just about the lightest and most capable off the shelf rifles you can run. I'm at about 12K rounds and it's still ringing steel.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to put my tinfoil hat on, Mark Larue could be watching this thread. :eek:
BiggerStick47
07-03-10, 20:49
Wow, Mark started a thread on TOS specifically trash talking me. I feel the love.
Don't worry about it, just typical mark larue being a baby because you hurt his feelings. He runs to his own forum so no one can edit his posts, and he has the ability to edit others' (much easier than having an honest mature discussion, something he apparently lacks the maturity to do).
parishioner
07-03-10, 21:08
..........
Discuss the gun, not the owner please.
The MD rifle is a special edition, and comes with extras. The regular SR15 is ~2k so they are the same price for all intents and purposes. They are geared for different missions though. The SR15 is more suited as a "fighting gun" and the OBR Lite would be better for accuracy AND where you don't need to tote it around doing drills.
I hear you. KAC makes a hell of a gun. So does Noveske. So do many other firearms makers, including Larue.
I will post a report once I get one of these in hand. If anyone wants to loan me their SR-15 I'd be happy to do a side by side eval :-D
j
Belmont31R
07-03-10, 22:56
I hear you. KAC makes a hell of a gun. So does Noveske. So do many other firearms makers, including Larue.
I will post a report once I get one of these in hand. If anyone wants to loan me their SR-15 I'd be happy to do a side by side eval :-D
j
Im sure you'll be happy with it. I love shooting for groups on the range, and shooting as good or better groups as guys with these huge ass 15lb bolt action guns. No one seems to think an AR can shoot such good groups....:D
vicious_cb
07-03-10, 23:25
So, Im confused. Why would you need to put a 10 moa cant on a .223 gun and use a 416? rail height?
Belmont31R
07-03-10, 23:36
So, Im confused. Why would you need to put a 10 moa cant on a .223 gun and use a 416? rail height?
On a precision gun its good to have some built in MOA cant.
For instance on my Mk12 build Im only getting HALF of the scopes elevation adjustment because Im using a zero MOA rail and zero MOA mount.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-03-10, 23:38
I used to rock a 16" MRP. SS barrel, etc, built by the fine folks at MSTN and later "tuned up" by the Magpul Dynamics guys. I ran that for around 2-3 classes and switched over to a Noveske Afghan(with a DD RISII hand guard).
j
What do you mean by ' "tuned up" by the Magpul Dynamics guys' ?
What do you mean by ' "tuned up" by the Magpul Dynamics guys' ?
I have been friends with Travis since his SDI days and I have continued working with him and rest of the MD team on all their web marketing and a lot of their branding.
After I took their Carbine 2 class, Trav took sometime with my LMT and made "improvements". He later did the same to my Noveske. Little optimizations including buis, grip, trigger, ASAP plates, CTR stock, etc. that helped me improve my efficiency and efficacy behind the gun.
j
thopkins22
07-03-10, 23:48
I have been friends with Travis since his SDI days and I have continued working with him and rest of the MD team on all their web marketing and a lot of their branding.
After I took their Carbine 2 class, Trav took sometime with my LMT and made "improvements". He later did the same to my Noveske. Little optimizations including buis, grip, trigger, ASAP plates, CTR stock, etc. that helped me improve my efficiency and efficacy behind the gun.
j
I don't know if I would really call that tuning(gun is operating the same,) but thanks for the clarification, I was curious as well.
ETA:Primarily addressing the post below me and posts like it. Titleist and others like him are perfectly freaking capable of hoisting a heavier rifle. I can't comment to the weight or balance of the OBR rifles, but the "hit the gym" comments are really missing the point. Of course a stronger person can handle a heavier rifle better than a weaker person. That same stronger person can handle a lighter rifle better than a heavier rifle...it's not complicated or hateful towards Larue...it's dependent on what roll you want the rifle to fill.
I've got a 7.62 OBR and I love it. That being said, I doubt I'll drop the coin on the 5.56 version. It felt really nice at SHOT and I'm sure its a capable rifle, but I'm happy with what I've got now as far as 5.56 ARs and I don't think the 5.56 OBR adds enough to get it on top of "normal" ARs I've already got.
As for the rifles being heavy, thisis the first time I've heard anyone complain about it being too heavy. It felt on par with most other ARs I own and have operated, and handled very nicely at SHOT. Maybe its time to hit the gym a bit...;)
Maybe its time to hit the gym a bit...;)
I love this jab. I love when people use it, but ultimately ounces equal pounds, pounds equal pain. It's one thing to shoot a rifle off a bench, but heft it around for 8 hours in a class, or carry it out hiking, and you'll feel it.
I normally shoot a 10.5lb rifle, so I know what heavy is, it's why I appreciate light weight carbines in the 5.56 variety. ;)
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-04-10, 06:02
I have been friends with Travis since his SDI days and I have continued working with him and rest of the MD team on all their web marketing and a lot of their branding.
After I took their Carbine 2 class, Trav took sometime with my LMT and made "improvements". He later did the same to my Noveske. Little optimizations including buis, grip, trigger, ASAP plates, CTR stock, etc. that helped me improve my efficiency and efficacy behind the gun.
j
Thanks, just wondering. I could see someone saying that their gun was 'tuned' by MD when all Travis did was look at your gun in a class and say "See, this is why this doesn't work..". :D
On topic and on the OBR castle nut, just a wild guess, but perhaps it was sent that way to the photog so that they could swap out the stocks? I see that they have an A2 stocked rifle also on the site.
Just a thought..
clickclack
07-04-10, 21:20
hey guys.. just thought i would chime and say from my understanding this rifle is geared more towards a SPR role then a cqb rifle.
its for super accurate bench/prone shooting and if you "have to" lug it around you still can because in all honesty its not that much heavier/if it even is? then the piston guns out there.
if you want a plinker for classes or cqb type stuff then go get a lightweight middy from BCM.
if you want a super accurate tac driver SPR type role... then this is it.
on a side note.. would one be more inclined for the 18" version if looking for a spr type rifle or would the 16" be just as accurate?
im thinking 18" but i dont know much about owning spr's
IrishDevil
07-04-10, 23:50
Barrel length doesn't drive the accuracy train. The longer barrel gives higher velocity, which in turn allows you to shoot further.
18" is the common "SPR" length, 16" is a "Recce" length. Either will serve fine for most uses. The 18" has advantage at distance, with added velocity.
clickclack
07-05-10, 00:07
well i would plan to use this as a target/ prairie dog rifle and just to plain see how far i can accurately shoot the 5.56.. so i guess the 18" would be best for me :D
variablebinary
07-05-10, 07:09
Tell me why I'd rather have that than an MRP?
I have to agree with you there. For the price I'd rather have an MRP or KAC SR15
I love this jab. I love when people use it, but ultimately ounces equal pounds, pounds equal pain. It's one thing to shoot a rifle off a bench, but heft it around for 8 hours in a class, or carry it out hiking, and you'll feel it.
I normally shoot a 10.5lb rifle, so I know what heavy is, it's why I appreciate light weight carbines in the 5.56 variety. ;)
Just be the bigger man and stop verbalizing your arguement with the guy, no one cares how big your e-penis is.
The Great Santini
07-05-10, 16:39
Don't worry about it, just typical mark larue being a baby because you hurt his feelings. He runs to his own forum so no one can edit his posts, and he has the ability to edit others' (much easier than having an honest mature discussion, something he apparently lacks the maturity to do).
Such is the nature of the beast...
The Great Santini
QuietShootr
07-05-10, 17:22
I'm not getting rid of any of the Larue stuff that I have, but I probably won't be buying any more, just because I don't want to finance his behavior.
+1. I was a big fan of the larue products up until I started reading some of his posts on ar15.com last year. I'm completely shocked that someone that makes such a good product with good customer service can't be more civil. He could legitimately argue his points just by standing behind his products, but instead, he hops up on his soap box the middle of the playground and calls everybody names.
I'm not going to get rid of the larue stuff I have now, but I as well will not be supporting his products anymore by giving him any of my money
You know, I am sure that many of you do business with companies whose owners you wouldn't like very much. Yes, Mark can be a bit of an dick sometimes but type A personalities are rife in the firearms community (and even praised in the military). He makes good products. Period. Unless he's going to start beating his wife or molesting kids and I find out about it, I'll continue purchasing LaRue products. His customer service is excellent and quite frankly, I don't care if the man acts like an ass from time to time.
I'm sure I act like an ass from time to time too.
To those bitching about the barrel being medium contour: Let's take a step back from the current en vogue of pencil barrels and actually think about what the rifle is supposed to be. Unless you want vertical stringing after intermediate fire, a medium profile barrel is warranted. The OBR (and the OBR light) are, correct me if I'm wrong, precision rifles that can take the role of a fighting rifle, not the reverse. For this role, a medium contour barrel fits the niche nicely.
Balance matters more than weight (although weight still matters at a certain point). If a medium profile barrel bothers you--don't buy one. Otherwise, understand the need for something other than a pencil barrel, hit the gym, and don't be such a pussy. I trained with an HBar for years and while my arms would be sore at the end of a day, I never said, "oh ****, this rifle is too heavy".
Want a pencil barrel? Don't buy a precision rifle.
Belmont31R
07-05-10, 22:35
You know, I am sure that many of you do business with companies whose owners you wouldn't like very much. Yes, Mark can be a bit of an dick sometimes but type A personalities are rife in the firearms community (and even praised in the military). He makes good products. Period. Unless he's going to start beating his wife or molesting kids and I find out about it, I'll continue purchasing LaRue products. His customer service is excellent and quite frankly, I don't care if the man acts like an ass from time to time.
I'm sure I act like an ass from time to time too.
To those bitching about the barrel being medium contour: Let's take a step back from the current en vogue of pencil barrels and actually think about what the rifle is supposed to be. Unless you want vertical stringing after intermediate fire, a medium profile barrel is warranted. The OBR (and the OBR light) are, correct me if I'm wrong, precision rifles that can take the role of a fighting rifle, not the reverse. For this role, a medium contour barrel fits the niche nicely.
Balance matters more than weight (although weight still matters at a certain point). If a medium profile barrel bothers you--don't buy one. Otherwise, understand the need for something other than a pencil barrel, hit the gym, and don't be such a pussy. I trained with an HBar for years and while my arms would be sore at the end of a day, I never said, "oh ****, this rifle is too heavy".
Want a pencil barrel? Don't buy a precision rifle.
If you fired a pencil barrel to the point you get stringing, and did that same rate of fire with a SS barrel your round count on the SS before groups started opening up would be in the thousands.
Thats why I like to say pick the weapon that fits your needs.
A pencil barrel even under use will still provide basic combat accuracy out to what most people are shooting 556 to in that role. The ONLY reason to get an SS barreled precision gun is if you NEED accuracy above and beyond what a standard barrel or CHF barrel will do. That need is extremely limited. They are popular with civilian folk because hardly any of us are putting our guns through combat stress. If you put an SS barrel through the rigors of a combat gun its not going to last long, and keep the accuracy up. Then what is the purpose? You going to switch an SS barrel out every 5-10k rounds under that kind of use at 400-500 bucks a pop?
As I also said in this thread go do some TIMED drills with both type of uppers, and see which is quicker. No it probably doesn't really matter to you because the majority of us are not getting shot at for a living. However it is the truth that a lighter barrel will speed up your times. Does that matter to you? Maybe maybe not but it doesn't change the facts. You can try to muddy the truth with trite little sayings like go work out but it still doesn't matter. Working out doesn't change the laws of physics.
As to my own experience Ive humped shit all over multiple countries, and over all types of terrain in all types of conditions. You want to shed weight wherever you can. You can be all macho all you want, and add extra weight just to prove something no one cares about. After two deployments, and 6 years AD I am going to have back problems my entire life because of all the weight I carried. A day at the range means 2-3 days of pain for me. I carried 60lbs of shit on me for months straight without a day off, and now I can't even do normal shit people take for granted. Id have enjoyed saving every pound I could because it adds up, and especially over time. We got saddled with every do dad armor kit people came out with so someone could feel good, plates that barely fit in the IBA they were so thick and bulky, etc. Would it matter on your bi monthly shooting session for a couple hours? Probably not. It matters when you carry the same sweaty dirty shit for 6 months 12-16hrs a day while you got a heat rash, haven't bathed in 2 weeks, etc. Having said that, and owning both an SR15 + Im on my 2nd Stealth rifle Id take the lighter SR15 any day of the week unless I was placed in some position where my accuracy required me carrying a heavy gun. Ive also got a Mk12 build with an over abundance of scope that weighs way more than either them. Would I WANT to carry it every day and months on end? **** no. I did a Spur Ride in Kuwait where we did 50 miles in 50 hours in 120 degree heat, and I wanted to chuck my gun at the end of it and never see it again. Weight = the suck, and no one with any sense wants to carry a single ounce more than they absolutely need to.
You may go back to your macho weight doesn't bother me BS...ask anyone here who has had to do this shit and much worse than I about it....
If you fired a pencil barrel to the point you get stringing, and did that same rate of fire with a SS barrel your round count on the SS before groups started opening up would be in the thousands.
I seriously doubt that.
Then what is the purpose? You going to switch an SS barrel out every 5-10k rounds under that kind of use at 400-500 bucks a pop?
Just because it doesn't fit your needs/wants doesn't mean that it doesn't fit anyones.
As to my own experience Ive humped shit all over multiple countries, and over all types of terrain in all types of conditions. You want to shed weight wherever you can. You can be all macho all you want, and add extra weight just to prove something no one cares about. After two deployments, and 6 years AD I am going to have back problems my entire life because of all the weight I carried. A day at the range means 2-3 days of pain for me. I carried 60lbs of shit on me for months straight without a day off, and now I can't even do normal shit people take for granted. Id have enjoyed saving every pound I could because it adds up, and especially over time. We got saddled with every do dad armor kit people came out with so someone could feel good, plates that barely fit in the IBA they were so thick and bulky, etc. Would it matter on your bi monthly shooting session for a couple hours? Probably not. It matters when you carry the same sweaty dirty shit for 6 months 12-16hrs a day while you got a heat rash, haven't bathed in 2 weeks, etc. Having said that, and owning both an SR15 + Im on my 2nd Stealth rifle Id take the lighter SR15 any day of the week unless I was placed in some position where my accuracy required me carrying a heavy gun. Ive also got a Mk12 build with an over abundance of scope that weighs way more than either them. Would I WANT to carry it every day and months on end? **** no. I did a Spur Ride in Kuwait where we did 50 miles in 50 hours in 120 degree heat, and I wanted to chuck my gun at the end of it and never see it again. Weight = the suck, and no one with any sense wants to carry a single ounce more than they absolutely need to.
You may go back to your macho weight doesn't bother me BS...ask anyone here who has had to do this shit and much worse than I about it....
I also did more than one combat tour in Iraq with an M16A4 with a, 'lot of shit' hanging off my rifle. I may be a civilian now but I wasn't always ;)
Yah, I suppose you can assume that everyone who went through what you did feels the same way...
Weight isn't the issue--weight is always the issue, but that doesn't mean I want to sacrifice capability or durability for weights sake alone (which is often what I see with people doing, 'ultra-lite' builds).
Belmont31R
07-05-10, 23:30
I seriously doubt that.
Just because it doesn't fit your needs/wants doesn't mean that it doesn't fit anyones.
I also did more than one combat tour in Iraq with an M16A4 with a, 'lot of shit' hanging off my rifle. I may be a civilian now but I wasn't always ;)
Weight isn't the issue--weight is always the issue, but that doesn't mean I want to sacrifice capability or durability for weights sake alone (which is often what I see with people doing, 'ultra-lite' builds).
SS barrels have a significantly shorter lifespan under heavy use.
I didn't it doesn't fit anyones needs. It doesnt fit most. The only reason to get an SS barrel with accuracy over a modern standard or CHF barrel is accuracy. What percent of people need, and really NEED a 1" gun over a 1.5-3" gun?
There is no sacrifice in durability. SS has the least longevity out of standard, CHF, and SS barrels.
Capability? Again goes to who needs a 1" gun over a 1.5-3" gun? A 3 MOA gun still provides combat accuracy out to 300-400M. What civilian needs to shoot someone past 400M? An average person would be much better served with a gun that can go 20-30K+ rounds without a new barrel than one that can shoot a bit better groups but wears out in 10k rounds before accuracy starts going to shit.
clickclack
07-06-10, 00:39
what if one wanted to be able to shoot prairie dogs or other small game at 100-400 yards.. those extra 1 or 2 moa really add up as the distance increases .. you need all you can get
:p
Belmont31R
07-06-10, 00:56
what if one wanted to be able to shoot prairie dogs or other small game at 100-400 yards.. those extra 1 or 2 moa really add up as the distance increases .. you need all you can get
:p
Then get the SS barrel, and shoot all the rats you want....
You know, I am sure that many of you do business with companies whose owners you wouldn't like very much. Yes, Mark can be a bit of an dick sometimes but type A personalities are rife in the firearms community (and even praised in the military). He makes good products. Period. Unless he's going to start beating his wife or molesting kids and I find out about it, I'll continue purchasing LaRue products. His customer service is excellent and quite frankly, I don't care if the man acts like an ass from time to time.
you know you're probably right. But I don't necessarily have exposure to other business owners acting like an ass, and honestly I don't even necessarily know who owns/operates 90% of the companies I do business with.
While yes, it's true that the firearms community is rife with personalities that some find abrasive, I choose not to support those personalities by not giving them my business. I won't even enter half of the gun shops in my area because I've had terrible experiences with the people inside. They may have better pricing, but i'm not going to reward their behavior by giving them my money.
Yes, Larue makes a fantastic product. And I didn't know any better until I started seeing some of his posts on ar15.com. But, now that I know, and I've seen the antics he gets away with and how he treats some of his potential customers, i'm choosing not to reward that kind of behavior, by not giving him any more of my money.
QuietShootr
07-06-10, 08:04
You know, I am sure that many of you do business with companies whose owners you wouldn't like very much. Yes, Mark can be a bit of an dick sometimes but type A personalities are rife in the firearms community (and even praised in the military). He makes good products. Period. Unless he's going to start beating his wife or molesting kids and I find out about it, I'll continue purchasing LaRue products. His customer service is excellent and quite frankly, I don't care if the man acts like an ass from time to time.
I'm sure I act like an ass from time to time too.
So do I, but I'm not selling anything.
And you're wrong. If I think someone is an asshole, I don't give them money, regardless of what I think of their products. I have a short list of firearms companies I won't do business with, or recommend to anyone else, because of that.
You want an example of a company with some class? Brownells. You don't see anyone from Brownells getting on the net and shit-talking a potential customer. How about Gemtech? Can you imagine Doc Dater or Kel showing their ass on the web the way our friend at an american can company has? Nope, me neither. How about BCM? KAC? No?
I have yet to see or hear of Karl Lewis starting a thread on arfcom to whine about someone not liking his 308. He may PERSONALLY be an asshole (or he may not be, I don't know. That sort of proves my point), but at least he has enough sense and professionalism to leave that shit to little guys with nothing better to do.
Don't delete this, I think it needs to be said.
so which flavor quick detach mounts would you guys pick over the larue??
I don't frequent tos so i have no dog in the fight. I though the LaRue company donated generously to our warriors in their times of need??
Belmont31R
07-06-10, 10:26
so which flavor quick detach mounts would you guys pick over the larue??
I don't frequent tos so i have no dog in the fight. I though the LaRue company donated generously to our warriors in their times of need??
Lots of companies do they just don't spout off about it all the time. They do it in a professional and humble manner.
When I was last in Iraq I ordered about 500 bucks worth of stuff from Smith Enterprise....makers of the Vortex FH and lots of other stuff. They didn't charge me anything for what I ordered, and sent stuff I didn't order, too. Lots of other companies I bought stuff from sent a lot of extra stuff. Noveske has some good mil/le discounts. Schmidt and Bender sells mil/le scopes cheaper than dealers can get them for (at least one dealer told me this over the phone). BCM donates a lot of gear to the WWF shoots.
But I don't see these companies grandstanding about how great they are because of it, and using it as cover while they go be a dick online in front of everyone. If you go on TOS, and rear Marks thread about Titleist on page 6 he starts talking about how great it he is because he's donating a bunch of gear to the shooting matches for prize tables and whatnot like that should be a get outa jail free ticket to his thread bashing a member here, and tarnishing his reputation.
Nothing that I saw Titleist post here was out of line. Yes the Stealth line is heavy compared to other guns, and the OBR Lite uses the same type of barrel. I already explained in this thread about it so Im not going to go into too much but again "working out" doesn't make them any lighter or quicker than lighter guns. Yet Mark's herd had to go on a slam fest. I doubt the vast majority of posters are doing the training and classes Titleist is doing...investing a lot of time and money into this. Basically a lot of people don't have room to talk both in the "working out more" BS or in the shooting department. I have similar thoughts as him in them being heavy guns, and aside from my back Im in better shape than most based on pics people post.
I do like LT gear quite a bit but I've begun to look around at other gear makers first instead of heading straight to LT like I used to. I only live like 10 mins from LaRue, and have been in their shop a few times so Id love to be able to support a local Texas business but at the same time I can vote on Mark's antics with my dollars. He has been right about a lot of things but this type of shit really puts me off. Ive been buying their gear since 2005, and spent thousands just this year alone but I don't feel good about spending that kinda money with them like I used to. I know quite a few people feel the same way but I guess lucky for Mark he'll probably never even notice the loss of long time good customers. Hell I used to carry around their product brochures, and give them to people at the range who asked about what my stuff was.
Capability? Again goes to who needs a 1" gun over a 1.5-3" gun? A 3 MOA gun still provides combat accuracy out to 300-400M. What civilian needs to shoot someone past 400M? An average person would be much better served with a gun that can go 20-30K+ rounds without a new barrel than one that can shoot a bit better groups but wears out in 10k rounds before accuracy starts going to shit.
I don't think LT is making this rifle for the average user. I personally don't have a need for a DMR-type rifle (which is what the OBR is, isn't it?) but if I did, I wouldn't want a pencil barrel on it.
Belmont31R
07-06-10, 12:04
I don't think LT is making this rifle for the average user. I personally don't have a need for a DMR-type rifle (which is what the OBR is, isn't it?) but if I did, I wouldn't want a pencil barrel on it.
Either would I. All Im saying is an SS barreled gun with a medium profile is not the best choice for a combat gun UNLESS you are placed in a position where your accuracy is a mission requirement above and beyond normal....such as a DM or sniper slot.
That level of accuracy is not needed in a regular rifleman and an SS barrel would be counter-productive given its the worst choice for high rates of fire.
Either would I. All Im saying is an SS barreled gun with a medium profile is not the best choice for a combat gun UNLESS you are placed in a position where your accuracy is a mission requirement above and beyond normal....such as a DM or sniper slot.
That level of accuracy is not needed in a regular rifleman and an SS barrel would be counter-productive given its the worst choice for high rates of fire.
I think we're in agreeance then.
I should add that I just now found out about the current feud on arfcomm about this. I don't trek over there very much at all. As such, I just want it to be known I'm not a fanatic defending Mark over everything else or sent here for the expressed purpose of defending him or his products.
Belmont31R
07-06-10, 12:38
I think we're in agreeance then.
I should add that I just now found out about the current feud on arfcomm about this. I don't trek over there very much at all. As such, I just want it to be known I'm not a fanatic defending Mark over everything else or sent here for the expressed purpose of defending him or his products.
No worries. I try not to touch on the fueds or whatever you want to call it but IMO this was way out line....:(
Magic_Salad0892
07-07-10, 06:34
If you fired a pencil barrel to the point you get stringing, and did that same rate of fire with a SS barrel your round count on the SS before groups started opening up would be in the thousands.
Thats why I like to say pick the weapon that fits your needs.
A pencil barrel even under use will still provide basic combat accuracy out to what most people are shooting 556 to in that role. The ONLY reason to get an SS barreled precision gun is if you NEED accuracy above and beyond what a standard barrel or CHF barrel will do. That need is extremely limited. They are popular with civilian folk because hardly any of us are putting our guns through combat stress. If you put an SS barrel through the rigors of a combat gun its not going to last long, and keep the accuracy up. Then what is the purpose? You going to switch an SS barrel out every 5-10k rounds under that kind of use at 400-500 bucks a pop?
As I also said in this thread go do some TIMED drills with both type of uppers, and see which is quicker. No it probably doesn't really matter to you because the majority of us are not getting shot at for a living. However it is the truth that a lighter barrel will speed up your times. Does that matter to you? Maybe maybe not but it doesn't change the facts. You can try to muddy the truth with trite little sayings like go work out but it still doesn't matter. Working out doesn't change the laws of physics.
As to my own experience Ive humped shit all over multiple countries, and over all types of terrain in all types of conditions. You want to shed weight wherever you can. You can be all macho all you want, and add extra weight just to prove something no one cares about. After two deployments, and 6 years AD I am going to have back problems my entire life because of all the weight I carried. A day at the range means 2-3 days of pain for me. I carried 60lbs of shit on me for months straight without a day off, and now I can't even do normal shit people take for granted. Id have enjoyed saving every pound I could because it adds up, and especially over time. We got saddled with every do dad armor kit people came out with so someone could feel good, plates that barely fit in the IBA they were so thick and bulky, etc. Would it matter on your bi monthly shooting session for a couple hours? Probably not. It matters when you carry the same sweaty dirty shit for 6 months 12-16hrs a day while you got a heat rash, haven't bathed in 2 weeks, etc. Having said that, and owning both an SR15 + Im on my 2nd Stealth rifle Id take the lighter SR15 any day of the week unless I was placed in some position where my accuracy required me carrying a heavy gun. Ive also got a Mk12 build with an over abundance of scope that weighs way more than either them. Would I WANT to carry it every day and months on end? **** no. I did a Spur Ride in Kuwait where we did 50 miles in 50 hours in 120 degree heat, and I wanted to chuck my gun at the end of it and never see it again. Weight = the suck, and no one with any sense wants to carry a single ounce more than they absolutely need to.
You may go back to your macho weight doesn't bother me BS...ask anyone here who has had to do this shit and much worse than I about it....
This is why I respect Belmont more than almost any poster here.
Weight is one of the main reasons I've been considering replacing my LWRCi M6A3 with my KAC SR-15 11.5'' as SHTF gun.
Though I'm still a piston guy at heart.
Belmont31R
07-07-10, 12:18
This is why I respect Belmont more than almost any poster here.
Weight is one of the main reasons I've been considering replacing my LWRCi M6A3 with my KAC SR-15 11.5'' as SHTF gun.
Though I'm still a piston guy at heart.
Eh I was just a pogue who got to do a few fun things....lots of people have back and knee problems since the mil went on an armor spree, and loads everyone down with as much shit as possible. We got the E-SAPIs, side plates, arm covers, etc. The vests really went from manageable to downright uncomfortable with all that stuff, and then we got stuck doing FOB security running checkpoints and stuff so I was on my feet in that shit all day for months and months. I know there are tons of people with way worse "wounds" than me so Im not trying to cry about it or get sympathy points AT ALL. Just wanted to point out to all the folks who say work out and dont be a pussy that weight does add up, and theres no logical reason to carry more of it than absolutely necessary.
Eh I was just a pogue who got to do a few fun things....lots of people have back and knee problems since the mil went on an armor spree, and loads everyone down with as much shit as possible. We got the E-SAPIs, side plates, arm covers, etc. The vests really went from manageable to downright uncomfortable with all that stuff, and then we got stuck doing FOB security running checkpoints and stuff so I was on my feet in that shit all day for months and months. I know there are tons of people with way worse "wounds" than me so Im not trying to cry about it or get sympathy points AT ALL. Just wanted to point out to all the folks who say work out and dont be a pussy that weight does add up, and theres no logical reason to carry more of it than absolutely necessary.
We're always balancing weight, mobility, and capability. Everyone has their own limit of what is acceptable. For example: For me personally, I accept the weight gain and mobility loss when utilizing ESAPI plates but I don't when side-plates and arm covers come into play (at least as far as dismounted troops--in the turret, another story). The protection gained isn't worth it when hefted against the increase in weight and loss of mobility IMO. As technology improves and ballistic protection gets lighter and slimmer, maybe I won't consider side plates a hindrance (Not that very many of us get a choice of what ballistic protection to wear in the first place).
If congress had their way, we'd all probably be running around (or should I say, 'waddling') with EOD suits on and wrapped in bubble wrap.
Judgements have to be made on every piece of kit in this fashion. This goes from packs to rifles to belt feds to everything. Not many Marines would give up a M203 (which makes everything much heavier, when you include the launcher and the ammo) just to save on weight. Why not? Well, for two reasons:
1) It's a force multiplier, despite the added weight
2) It looks cool to have one :D
So, when we're talking about a DMR, yes, it's going to be a little heavier. No, it's not meant for doing speed drills and for the lowest common denominator.
Lighter is always better, assuming that everything else is the same. If they aren't, that's what you need to play the balancing act and figure out what you find acceptable or not. For you, who isn't in a DMR role, the OBR isn't for you (nor do I think it was made for what you want out of a rifle anyway).
clickclack
07-07-10, 15:01
blemont dont you have a stealth?
let me ask you this if you didnt already own a stealth dmr type rifle would you consider the OBR?
Magic_Salad0892
07-07-10, 19:40
Eh I was just a pogue who got to do a few fun things....lots of people have back and knee problems since the mil went on an armor spree, and loads everyone down with as much shit as possible. We got the E-SAPIs, side plates, arm covers, etc. The vests really went from manageable to downright uncomfortable with all that stuff, and then we got stuck doing FOB security running checkpoints and stuff so I was on my feet in that shit all day for months and months. I know there are tons of people with way worse "wounds" than me so Im not trying to cry about it or get sympathy points AT ALL. Just wanted to point out to all the folks who say work out and dont be a pussy that weight does add up, and theres no logical reason to carry more of it than absolutely necessary.
That wasn't exactly the only post I was referring to.
However - -
Why offer a 12.5'' SPR?
I won't be picking up an OBR. (I see no need for a 5.56 DMR. I'll be building a 7.62 version at some point hopefully. Hopefully a KAC SR-25 if funds ever allow. SR-25 = Dream DMR.)
Belmont31R
07-07-10, 20:12
That wasn't exactly the only post I was referring to.
However - -
Why offer a 12.5'' SPR?
I won't be picking up an OBR. (I see no need for a 5.56 DMR. I'll be building a 7.62 version at some point hopefully. Hopefully a KAC SR-25 if funds ever allow. SR-25 = Dream DMR.)
There is very little need for an SS SBR barrel. The primary purpose in giving up barrel length is more increased mobility, and when do you need that mobility? Primarily CQB so there is no need for extra special accuracy.
With that said would it be cool to be able to do CQB, step outside, and still have a gun that will shoot 1-1.5MOA? Yeah but then you gain a ton of weight, and a good CHF CL barrel should still have man stopper accuracy out several hundred yards +.
In squad/team formations there is actually some utility in having everyone in one caliber. If everyone but one guy with the 7.62 is shooting 5.56, and your 7.62 gunner runs out of ammo what do you do? The 5.56 SPR can have effective fire out to 800M so there is not a huge loss in distance. Being able to place rounds on target matters more than what caliber you are using. A 50 cal won't do you any good unless you hit what you are wanting to hit (aside from keeping heads down).
I could easily see a very valuable use for something like a Mk12 but maybe not so much for an SS SBR. When it comes to team/group tactics you want a tool for every scenario not one tool that does many jobs. Hence why you have rifle, grenadiers, machine gunners, snipers, DM's, indirect guys, etc. So no it doesn't make much sense doctrine wise to have a guy with an SBR who is using a precision SS barrel. It makes as much sense as giving your sniper a CQBR upper...
When it comes to team/group tactics you want a tool for every scenario not one tool that does many jobs. Hence why you have rifle, grenadiers, machine gunners, snipers, DM's, indirect guys, etc. So no it doesn't make much sense doctrine wise to have a guy with an SBR who is using a precision SS barrel. It makes as much sense as giving your sniper a CQBR upper...
Hence my comments about balancing weight, mobility, and capability.
Magic_Salad0892
07-09-10, 07:10
There is very little need for an SS SBR barrel. The primary purpose in giving up barrel length is more increased mobility, and when do you need that mobility? Primarily CQB so there is no need for extra special accuracy.
With that said would it be cool to be able to do CQB, step outside, and still have a gun that will shoot 1-1.5MOA? Yeah but then you gain a ton of weight, and a good CHF CL barrel should still have man stopper accuracy out several hundred yards +.
In squad/team formations there is actually some utility in having everyone in one caliber. If everyone but one guy with the 7.62 is shooting 5.56, and your 7.62 gunner runs out of ammo what do you do? The 5.56 SPR can have effective fire out to 800M so there is not a huge loss in distance. Being able to place rounds on target matters more than what caliber you are using. A 50 cal won't do you any good unless you hit what you are wanting to hit (aside from keeping heads down).
I could easily see a very valuable use for something like a Mk12 but maybe not so much for an SS SBR. When it comes to team/group tactics you want a tool for every scenario not one tool that does many jobs. Hence why you have rifle, grenadiers, machine gunners, snipers, DM's, indirect guys, etc. So no it doesn't make much sense doctrine wise to have a guy with an SBR who is using a precision SS barrel. It makes as much sense as giving your sniper a CQBR upper...
That makes sense. But for me. I can't justify a Mk. 12 clone, over a Mk. 11.
after reading through this entire thread I had to go back to the original post, I forgot how this meandering/hit every LaRue bad point thread even started.
does LaRue have the best face on forums, no. does he have incredible mounts, yes, but now I'm gonna have to check for "scratches" on my upper, oh no. does he have incredible customer service for the most part, yes. does he make incredible rifles/uppers, yes, and the post about him making great mounts but not-so-great other products is just ridiculous. they fill a certain role, and if you need that role, his products are kickass. there are certain individuals that have posted multiple times in this thread that show up in any LaRue thread that is started and do their best to point out anything and everything that is and could be wrong with Mark LaRue and his products. seems like they have a personal vendetta against LaRue the man, and if I remember correctly, the OP was about a rifle, not a person. and also please stop trying to fit the OBR556 into your specific role that it was not designed to fit, and then expounding upon how it is ill-designed because it does not fulfill your role. it's purely illogical.
and I know, I will now be hailed as a LaRue fanboy, but this is not the case. I like their products for what they do, just as I like my BCM, DD, VLTOR, and Magpul products.
I saw 3 KAC SR15's over the weekend in AZ while on vacation here. None of them had their castle nuts staked!!! :eek: Ohhh the humanity!!!....
I would still have no problem buying either one of these fine carbines (OBR5.56 or KAC SR15) for the asking price.
I saw 3 KAC SR15's over the weekend in AZ while on vacation here. None of them had their castle nuts staked!!! :eek: Ohhh the humanity!!!....
Terrible quality firearms then ;)
Actually my SR-25 didn't have it's castle nut staked, however all were torqued to spec. Never seen an SR-15 fall apart. That said I have seen a colt's staked castle nut come loose. But I agree it should probably come staked.
I actually like the fact that they dont come staked from the factory since it simplifies the process of adding a replacement sling mount/end plate like the MagPul ASAP. I can then stake it my damn self;)
GermanSynergy
07-12-10, 12:59
It looks very promising. Don't need one, but will probably end up with one in the safe anyways..... :D
I actually like the fact that they dont come staked from the factory since it simplifies the process of adding a replacement sling mount/end plate like the MagPul ASAP. I can then stake it my damn self;)
Shame the QD points don't allow the ASAP to fit normally. But good news for me as I've been making the occasional lunch money off redo'ing the ASAPs to play nice with those.
It's funny, even though they're not staked the KAC castle nuts are still on there TIGHT! :eek:
Shame the QD points don't allow the ASAP to fit normally. But good news for me as I've been making the occasional lunch money off redo'ing the ASAPs to play nice with those.
It's funny, even though they're not staked the KAC castle nuts are still on there TIGHT! :eek:
Yeah, the KAC lower was the only one I couldnt break tq using a wrench and my feet to hold the receiver.:D
Yeah, the KAC lower was the only one I couldnt break tq using a wrench and my feet to hold the receiver.:D
Ah yes the good 'ol "Redneck Lower Vice"! Kidding kidding!
Here is the problem I have with non-staked castle nuts from the factory- regardless of manufacture. If they aren't going to stake them then they should at least tell the consumer that they aren't staked and why. For example; "We have decided not to stake the castle nut on our weapon in order to allow customers to add a single point endplate or whatever...." followed by; "once you have made the change you should have the castle nut/ endplate staked by a professional".
I have seen lower receiver extensions loosen from not being properly tightened and staked. I know that others have too. Not doing it correctly is just as stupid as putting it on backwards a la Les Baer and trying to justify it.
I don't know that I have noticed an AR come staked at the buffer tube until it was brought up about a week ago. I guess I learn new stuff all the time.
I have always just properly torqued the castle nut but I will be staking mine ASAP.
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