View Full Version : Another barrel nut torque question
I think I may have terrible luck when it comes to barrel nuts (or a torque wrench that is not calibrated). Out of five uppers that I've installed barrels on, not a single barrel nut has wanted to line up within spec. All five have been just past alignment at 35 ft lbs. and just shy at 80. In the past I worked the barrel nut back and forth until I got it to line up, tearing up the barrel nuts a bit in the process. On this last one, the barrel nut is just a hair past alignment at 35. I can still get the gas tube through and the BCG locks up just fine. If I try to go to the next slot, I hit 80 ft. lbs. halfway there. Should I leave it at 35, or should I try to work it back and forth to get it to line up at a higher torque?
Before any one asks, I torqued 3x first and used 33MS anti-seize. Am I just having bad luck? I don't know what the **** the problem is.
This is why I tell people not to get spun up on torque values. I do it strictly by feel alone and have yet to have an issue.
I think I may have terrible luck when it comes to barrel nuts (or a torque wrench that is not calibrated). Out of five uppers that I've installed barrels on, not a single barrel nut has wanted to line up within spec. All five have been just past alignment at 35 ft lbs. and just shy at 80. In the past I worked the barrel nut back and forth until I got it to line up, tearing up the barrel nuts a bit in the process. On this last one, the barrel nut is just a hair past alignment at 35. I can still get the gas tube through and the BCG locks up just fine. If I try to go to the next slot, I hit 80 ft. lbs. halfway there. Should I leave it at 35, or should I try to work it back and forth to get it to line up at a higher torque?
Before any one asks, I torqued 3x first and used 33MS anti-seize. Am I just having bad luck? I don't know what the **** the problem is.
what kind of barrel nut? if its a standard delta type, dremel off the offending spoke. majique.
spamsammich
07-02-10, 03:15
I had a barrel nut that just wouldn't line up no matter how many times I tightened/loosened it. I ended up starting over, degreasing everything, inspecting for debris or foreign objects in the interface. the shoulder of the barrel extension right next to the upper had a lot of grease in it prior to cleaning it off the second time. When I finally put everything back together I was shocked to find the splines lining up perfectly with about 40 ftlbs of torque. Go figure. Could it be that the excess grease was unable to compact down enough to let the barrel extension seat properly in the upper? I'm not sure, but it worked.
Before any one asks, I torqued 3x first and used 33MS anti-seize. Am I just having bad luck? I don't know what the **** the problem is.
As you most likely know from previous experience, the "3X" statement out of the -23, is not a hard written number where after exactly three torque-loosen sequences the barrel nut will simply line up. It may, and in most cases it does, take more than the published "3X".
The intent behind the "3X" procedure written into the -23, is to work the threads of a new barrel nut and upper receiver together, smoothing out the rough threads, essentially mating the threads together. This will ensure complete bearing surface contact with the threads of the barrel nut and upper receiver.
In the past it has helped me to:
- Ensure the upper receiver and barrel nut threads are sufficiently greased. Don't skimp on the grease.
- Lube not only the threads, but all contact/bearing surfaces.
- Put the torque wrench away. This was a hard one for me to do. In my profession, torques are MANDATORY. But I learned after a couple barrel install/swaps, as Iraqgunz stated above, to go off feel alone when tightening the barrel nut.
I have nowhere near the barrel installs under my belt that some of our other members here do. But, these simple tips have not failed me yet in the barrel installs I have completed to date.
Robb Jensen
07-02-10, 06:45
Sometimes some barrel nuts just won't align with certain receivers with certain barrels. You can try adding more moly grease and slow torquing it up, loosen, torque slightly higher and loosen again doing this several times until you get it aligned. I have to do this all the time with LaRue barrel nuts I don't know why they always need 70-100ft lbs to align but they do. If it's just a normal barrel nut you can also try another one. This is why I never throw barrel nuts away unless they're damaged. The majority of the time I don't use a torque wrench either. If I'm installing something that doesn't need alignment light a Daniel Defense Lite rail/RISII or similar I do the tighten loosen at about 35ft lbs, then about 50ft lbs and then using the torque wrench I get the final torque at 60-65ft lbs.
I think I may have terrible luck when it comes to barrel nuts (or a torque wrench that is not calibrated). Out of five uppers that I've installed barrels on, not a single barrel nut has wanted to line up within spec. All five have been just past alignment at 35 ft lbs. and just shy at 80. In the past I worked the barrel nut back and forth until I got it to line up, tearing up the barrel nuts a bit in the process. On this last one, the barrel nut is just a hair past alignment at 35. I can still get the gas tube through and the BCG locks up just fine. If I try to go to the next slot, I hit 80 ft. lbs. halfway there. Should I leave it at 35, or should I try to work it back and forth to get it to line up at a higher torque?
Before any one asks, I torqued 3x first and used 33MS anti-seize. Am I just having bad luck? I don't know what the **** the problem is.
I don't think I've ever 'properly' torqued an AR barrel nut. Just feel alone, and half the time if it don't line up I just grind off the nub, assuming it's possible with my handguard setup.
eternal24k
07-02-10, 08:20
This is why I tell people not to get spun up on torque values. I do it strictly by feel alone and have yet to have an issue.
+1, any person with a relative understanding of a build should do fine, I did my first 3 DD Lite builds with a makeshift barrel nut wrench I made from a stock wrench and a year later i finally got a DD wrench so I went back and checked the torque and they were all around 50-60lbs,
however I have seen some builds that were barely finger tight or WAY over tight, it all has to do with the level of understanding of the system and the care of the assembler.
I appreciate the replies, guys.
Sometimes some barrel nuts just won't align with certain receivers with certain barrels. You can try adding more moly grease and slow torquing it up, loosen, torque slightly higher and loosen again doing this several times until you get it aligned. I have to do this all the time with LaRue barrel nuts I don't know why they always need 70-100ft lbs to align but they do. If it's just a normal barrel nut you can also try another one. This is why I never throw barrel nuts away unless they're damaged. The majority of the time I don't use a torque wrench either. If I'm installing something that doesn't need alignment light a Daniel Defense Lite rail/RISII or similar I do the tighten loosen at about 35ft lbs, then about 50ft lbs and then using the torque wrench I get the final torque at 60-65ft lbs.This pretty much sums it up for me also. :)
Well, there went another barrel nut. I was slowly working the nut back and forth and bent a tooth pretty bad while loosening it. It was only tightened to around 50ft lbs of pressure when it bent. Not sure how or why it happened. I was using a Smith Enterprise armorer's wrench.
I've trashed a lot of parts in the past couple months. I think I need a new hobby. :(
Only one tooth bent? Shouldn't be a problem, there's actually an allowable limit to the number of teeth missing or bent.....
NOTE
Damaged or missing teeth of the barrel nut is not cause for rejection provided the proper torque value can be obtained during installation using the tools depicted.
If removal of the barrel is not possible with the combination tool, a pipe wrench or other such tool may be used during removal.
Well, there went another barrel nut. I was slowly working the nut back and forth and bent a tooth pretty bad while loosening it. It was only tightened to around 50ft lbs of pressure when it bent. Not sure how or why it happened. I was using a Smith Enterprise armorer's wrench.
I've trashed a lot of parts in the past couple months. I think I need a new hobby. :(
I've only built a few uppers, but my barrel nuts are pretty stout. I'm more likely to scuff them up a bit than bend one, or bugger up the armorers wrench I have. Last one was for a Bison Armament 6.8 SPC barrel into a receiver I bought. Good quality barrel nuts are important. I tighten, loosen, tighten, loose, etc.. but in the end I used my Dremel to open up slightly the gap I would need from the 2 offending "points". You see, it's more than a simple tube, which can be off just a bit. It was a piston rod for the Adams Arms Piston retrofit, and having excellent gas block to receiver hole location is very important. At the upper end I ended up "almost" there, but not completely lined up perfectly. At the lower end of the tightening, I was just a bit too loose in the tight department to feel it would be good there. Solution was to get to where it was pretty tight, mark it, take it off, and Dremel a bit so that it gave it clearance. Then re-tighten onto the receiver again and voila, fits perfect.
Remember, when you fire the weapon, the reciever thread and barrel nut are not there to keep the barrel from simply "shooting out" of the receiver. The tightness is to assure a very snug fit for accuracy and stability. If it were alone for the little threads on that receiver, the first shot would strip them out. As it is, the barrels extension with it's locking lugs, and the bolt's mating locking lugs keep all the pressure contained in the barrle/extension during firing.
Now if you can bend a barrel nut, you might need to find a better quality barrel nut. Same goes for some other componenets. Use proper tools, inlucing a receiver block that you put the upper receiver into and then into a good bench vice. All are important.
Belmont31R
07-03-10, 11:50
This is why I no longer do any barrel nut work. Everytime Ive tried I ran into that problem where the first alignment was too little, and getting it to the next hole required so much torque I was hanging off the wrench. Once I snapped the little pegs that go into the barrel nut clean off.
Now I let other people do it....Might cost me a little more but its worth not having to deal with the aggravation, cost of tools, etc. And Gun Gallery in FL installs rails for free if you buy the rail from them.
This is why I no longer do any barrel nut work. Everytime Ive tried I ran into that problem where the first alignment was too little, and getting it to the next hole required so much torque I was hanging off the wrench. Once I snapped the little pegs that go into the barrel nut clean off.
Now I let other people do it....Might cost me a little more but its worth not having to deal with the aggravation, cost of tools, etc. And Gun Gallery in FL installs rails for free if you buy the rail from them.
Man, I think you might have it right. So far I am 0/5 when it comes to smooth installations. I think there is a local guy that will do it for like $10. I think Iraqgunz needs to offer a class in AZ on how to properly install barrels without destroying parts (or other property when you start hitting things with the barrel wrench).
Randall at ar15barrels.com does sell shims for this problem.
On LaRue's barrel nut, where the nut has to be perfectly lined to keep the rail straight, I turn them on my lathe (inside the nut).
I used a JP VTAC tube on my last build, that uses red loctite, which I didn't fully trust. I torqued it to 60 or 65 ft lbs and ground the tooth off as stated in the instructions.
I offered this before with only a few bites. I would like to do a class if I can get enough AZ bodies together. We can work the logistics later.
Man, I think you might have it right. So far I am 0/5 when it comes to smooth installations. I think there is a local guy that will do it for like $10. I think Iraqgunz needs to offer a class in AZ on how to properly install barrels without destroying parts (or other property when you start hitting things with the barrel wrench).
...if its a standard delta type, dremel off the offending spoke. majique.
...and half the time if it don't line up I just grind off the nub, assuming it's possible with my handguard setup.
This is excessively crude and completely unnecessary. No offense, but if you can't time up a barrel nut correctly you should be paying someone else to do your AR work.
BTW- Colt barely teaches barrel removal and replacement in their armorer's course these days. They demo one, and talk about it like it's black magic.
Maybe they're on to something...
ETA- The most aggressive technique I have ever used to get a stubborn barrel nut to line up perfectly is to lightly polish the front of the upper receiver where the barrel bottoms out. When I say lightly, I mean that a polishing of 0.0013887" will get you half a notch of movement. If you can't swap out barrel nuts, seat threads, clean out gunk, or wait for a full moon, this will get it done... and no, it's not in the manual.
If you can't swap out barrel nuts, seat threads, clean out gunk, or wait for a full moon, this will get it done... and no, it's not in the manual.
neither is grinding off the nub, which is the easiest, fastest, and least destructive method listed so far in this thread.
there's nothing wrong with any of these methods- they all work. but you cant criticize any of them and then try to say changing the receiver dimensions- even a millionth- is somehow "better." especially considering probably 99.9% of armorers don't have any way of accurately measuring even down to the ten-thousandth, let alone to the millionth.
and, if my memory serves, the only times i've ever ground off the nub was when working on guns where changing the barrel nut, or even removing it, wasn't an option. are you going to destroy the customer's 5.5" flash hider, order another one, and re-install it just to avoid making a totally inconsequential change to a nut?
This is excessively crude and completely unnecessary. No offense, but if you can't time up a barrel nut correctly you should be paying someone else to do your AR work.
BTW- Colt barely teaches barrel removal and replacement in their armorer's course these days. They demo one, and talk about it like it's black magic.
Maybe they're on to something...
ETA- The most aggressive technique I have ever used to get a stubborn barrel nut to line up perfectly is to lightly polish the front of the upper receiver where the barrel bottoms out. When I say lightly, I mean that a polishing of 0.0013887" will get you half a notch of movement. If you can't swap out barrel nuts, seat threads, clean out gunk, or wait for a full moon, this will get it done... and no, it's not in the manual.
I'll have you know that the manual that came with my JP Enterprises free float tube specifically states that cutting off the nub on the barrel nut is perfectly OK if it's not timed correctly after being torqued. Plus it really doesn't effect anything. I don't care what it looks like, it's a god dammed shoot mo-fo's in the face gun anyways.
I just hand tighten and then take an armorers wrench and tighten, losen and then retighten a few times to where everything lines up. Then insert the gas tube and check final alignment. If it needs tweaking, carefully use the wrench and a rubber mallet and tap carefully to alignment. Never had a problem.
Colt has almost never taught this even when Ken Elmore was with them. They also gloss over gaging as well. They are not on to anything and they should be teaching it.
If I have a dept. issued M4 carbine and it has a damaged barrel (yes it does happen) then am I expected to replace the whole weapon or upper? Of course not, I purchase a new barrel and replace it.
This is excessively crude and completely unnecessary. No offense, but if you can't time up a barrel nut correctly you should be paying someone else to do your AR work.
BTW- Colt barely teaches barrel removal and replacement in their armorer's course these days. They demo one, and talk about it like it's black magic.
Maybe they're on to something...
ETA- The most aggressive technique I have ever used to get a stubborn barrel nut to line up perfectly is to lightly polish the front of the upper receiver where the barrel bottoms out. When I say lightly, I mean that a polishing of 0.0013887" will get you half a notch of movement. If you can't swap out barrel nuts, seat threads, clean out gunk, or wait for a full moon, this will get it done... and no, it's not in the manual.
Robb Jensen
07-06-10, 20:04
Colt has almost never taught this even when Ken Elmore was with them. They also gloss over gaging as well. They are not on to anything and they should be teaching it.
If I have a dept. issued M4 carbine and it has a damaged barrel (yes it does happen) then am I expected to replace the whole weapon or upper? Of course not, I purchase a new barrel and replace it.
It's all about they don't want the liability for a yahoo blowing up an AR because he f'd up and didn't do it right.
I have heard the argument. But, I am sure that could be applied to any part of the class.
It's all about they don't want the liability for a yahoo blowing up an AR because he f'd up and didn't do it right.
neither is grinding off the nub, which is the easiest, fastest, and least destructive method listed so far in this thread.
How is "grinding off the nub" the "least destructive method" of timing up a barrel nut?
I really don't care what you do to your rifle. Grind you barrel nut down until it's round and glue it on with Elmer's if you want to, but let's not pretend to the reading public that it's the professional way to barrel an AR.
I'll have you know that the manual that came with my JP Enterprises free float tube specifically states that cutting off the nub on the barrel nut is perfectly OK if it's not timed correctly after being torqued.
First of all, (I'll have you know...) that is the directions for the JP free-float tube specific parts, not a standard AR-15.
Second, (I'll have you know...) That's described as the "easy fix", not the "best fix".
From the JP manual-
"Note: In some cases when tensioning the barrel retainer nut, it may not be possible to achieve alignment of the gas tube
channel of the inner nut at an acceptable torque. The easy fix for this is to grind off the offending nub of the inner lock
nut to clear the gas tube."
Third, (I'll have you know...) JP considers this POS a viable muzzle attachment!
http://www.jprifles.com/cart_pix/ph/970.jpg
Posts that advocate the grinding of the "nubs" of barrel nuts don't surprise me.
What surprises me is that no one has objected to it.
This is getting very ARFCOM-like.
Sorry, I'll go through a new barrel nut on there so it looks all nice and pretty for you. Because I forgot that it shoots better that way.
Yep, this place is just like arfcom, where people get snooty because someone's gun doesn't look pretty enough for them.
Sorry, I'll go through a new barrel nut on there so it looks all nice and pretty for you. Because I forgot that it shoots better that way.
Yep, this place is just like arfcom, where people get snooty because someone's gun doesn't look pretty enough for them.
easy partner, dont bother.
---
it's very possible to disagree, even debate, without hostility. this thread was hostility-free till a couple posts ago, but it can go right back to mature as easy as it digressed.
to address the point- we're not talking about manufacture assembly processes, here, nor are we even talking about "professional" work. we're talking about one guy doing some home gun-smithing. if he had a bin of barrel nuts and a bins-worth of barrel nut installations under his belt, the conversation would be totally different.
Robb Jensen
07-09-10, 05:59
I'll have you know that the manual that came with my JP Enterprises free float tube specifically states that cutting off the nub on the barrel nut is perfectly OK if it's not timed correctly after being torqued. Plus it really doesn't effect anything. I don't care what it looks like, it's a god dammed shoot mo-fo's in the face gun anyways.
That's a Hack-Fu Gunworks™ method but it would work... it's not something that I'd do. I've installed over 100 of these Troy TRX and VTAC FF tubes and haven't had to do that. A gas tube doesn't have to have a barrel nut supporting it example: Daniel Defense Lite Rail barrel nuts.
On my last build, I had a barrel nut that was either too tight and would "almost" make it to the required alignment, or loosening to the next notch actually made it a little too loose. Took the barrel nut off and sanded down the end of the receiver that meets the barrel nut. USE caution, as you don't want to get heavy into that. A little there makes quite a bit of difference. You can easiy be in the same position as before, but be at a different location point. Try a little and then re-torque down. MAKE sure that the notch in the receiver has enough room for the corresponding index tab on the barrel. It's for indexing, not as a stop point.
Using a longer "breaker bar" for the square hole in the Armorer's Wrench helps a lot to carefully "tweak" it into position.
It's not about making the gun "pretty", it's about doing the job in the correct, professional way. The original intent of the barrel nut with 20 gas tube notches is that the gas tube would not allow the barrel nut to loosen under extreme circumstances. It also indexes the handguards so they are aligned correctly. (I'm wondering: when you grind a "nub" off of the barrel nut and tighten it down between two notches aren't the handguards canted? I guess that's OK too, because "pretty" doesn't matter.)
As posted before, the vast majority of barrel nuts will align just fine, although a lot will not align within the 30 ft lbs. torque spec. Colt recognizes this and advises to increase the torque to align the notches. This will handle 99+% of situations. On the rare situations that it doesn't and especially when the barrel is an assembly and the nut cannot easily be switched out, polishing the front of the receiver is a viable option.
One half of a notch is 9 degrees rotation. In order to gain 9 degrees, only about 1.4 thousandths needs polished off the front of the receiver (0.0013887"). The half notch data is just a reference. Depending on how it aligns you may not even need the full half notch rotation to align the nut. This process is done slowly and methodically and is only used under extreme circumstances where there's no alternative.
Here's a pic of a barrel nut I've kept for about 30 years. I don't know who worked on this piece of art but it's a fine example of the kind of gunsmithing that's been espoused in this thread. There's even some nub grindin' going on here!
Hack-Fu Gunworks™- That pretty much describes it.
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5493&stc=1&d=1278705612
And they say Old World Craftsmanship is dead...
I don't know who worked on this piece of art but it's a fine example of the kind of gunsmithing that's been espoused in this thread. There's even some nub grindin' going on here!
where has anyone suggested destroying a barrel nut?
that photo is actually a perfect example of why i suggest grinding the nub for do-it-yourselfers. if that guy had ground his nub back when he realized he wasn't gonna get it lined up under 80ft/lbs, he'd still have a functional barrel wrench and his nut wouldn't look like it'd been dropped in a garbage disposal.
i have no problem with your suggestion- taking some material off the face of the receiver is a perfectly fine way to do it. i even remember the days when we'd lap the face as GP on "target" guns. but i don't think the do-it-yourselfer should attempt it, unless he's got a lapping tool or some other way of tightly controlling depth and ensuring concentricity. for these guys, there's nothing wrong with grinding a nub. it's gonna be a once-, maybe twice-in-a-lifetime thing for them.
the OP/future readers can decide for themselves which way to go.
where has anyone suggested destroying a barrel nut?
As far as I'm concerned, grinding one of teeth off a barrel nut is destroying it. But that's just me.
(The thread also touched on bending teeth, and other damage.)
I don't know what the Hack used on the barrel nut I posted, but I suspect it was a pipe wrench.
I'll stand on my previous assertion- If you can't time up a barrel nut correctly you should be paying someone else to do your AR work.
The original intent of the barrel nut with 20 gas tube notches is that the gas tube would not allow the barrel nut to loosen under extreme circumstances.
I'll have to disagree on that one, there is plenty of room for the barrel nut to loosen before it is stopped by the gas tube. This will keep the barrel from falling out of our the upper but groups will look like buckshot at 100.
I've never had to grind a barrel nut, just keep working it. Make sure you have lots of grease on the front FACE of the barrel extension and not just on the upper threads.
Well, that barrel nut looks worse than any I've beaten up. That being said, I've watched smiths and armorers time numerous barrel nuts. I've also read up plenty on it. I'm just trying to figure out what I'm doing differently. I've had five barrel nuts in a row on different uppers that do not want to line up between 35 and 80 ft lbs. On four of the five, I was able to get it to line up by tightening and loosening the barrel nut numerous times, but the last ended up seriously bending one of the teeth on the nut before it made it. However, all of the other four still ended up a little chingered up. I just want to know what I'm doing wrong or if I've just had some amazingly bad luck.
I've never had to grind a barrel nut, just keep working it. Make sure you have lots of grease on the front FACE of the barrel extension and not just on the upper threads.
Yes Sir, I mention this on page one of this thread. These tips have yet to let me down.
Well, that barrel nut looks worse than any I've beaten up. That being said, I've watched smiths and armorers time numerous barrel nuts. I've also read up plenty on it. I'm just trying to figure out what I'm doing differently. I've had five barrel nuts in a row on different uppers that do not want to line up between 35 and 80 ft lbs. On four of the five, I was able to get it to line up by tightening and loosening the barrel nut numerous times, but the last ended up seriously bending one of the teeth on the nut before it made it. However, all of the other four still ended up a little chingered up. I just want to know what I'm doing wrong or if I've just had some amazingly bad luck.
It sounds like your wrench might be a little oversize. When the wrench slips just a little it allows the force to be placed on the thinner teeth of the barrel nut instead of being seated firmly into the rounded bottom of the notches. This makes bending one much easier. The nature of the rounded notches on the barrel nut make the wrench pins want to cam to the outside whenever there is any space to do so.
You also have to keep the wrench firmly seated against face of the barrel nut to keep it from slipping. Sometimes when you're fighting the delta ring and spring the wrench can slip forward and make it easier to bend a tooth.
Belmont31R
07-09-10, 19:55
:D
Again why I dont mess with this shit when there are places that do it for free.
Ive tried the grease and "working it in" before and I could pull myself up on the wrench with still a bit to go. NOT WORTH THE HASSLE for a casual gunsmither like me. If you do it for a living that is one thing but most of us do not fit that category. Someone with even 5 uppers custom built would be better off both hassle wise, and cost wise to just pay someone to do it who knows what they are doing.
I did do my own M4 upper on my own, and could not get it another notch while the one its at now is at the bottom end of the torque spec. Other ones Ive snapped tools apart, as I said pulled myself up on the wrench, etc. Im much more pleased now letting other people do it.....:cool:
What part of AZ are you in? Since I am also in AZ maybe I can show or assist you.
Well, that barrel nut looks worse than any I've beaten up. That being said, I've watched smiths and armorers time numerous barrel nuts. I've also read up plenty on it. I'm just trying to figure out what I'm doing differently. I've had five barrel nuts in a row on different uppers that do not want to line up between 35 and 80 ft lbs. On four of the five, I was able to get it to line up by tightening and loosening the barrel nut numerous times, but the last ended up seriously bending one of the teeth on the nut before it made it. However, all of the other four still ended up a little chingered up. I just want to know what I'm doing wrong or if I've just had some amazingly bad luck.
motorwerks
07-09-10, 20:34
well I'm another thats had trouble with this in the past. I also pulled it back off, cleaned everything and then started over from scratch. Second time It lined right up at about 38ish-ft-lbs
I'll have to disagree on that one, there is plenty of room for the barrel nut to loosen before it is stopped by the gas tube. This will keep the barrel from falling out of our the upper but groups will look like buckshot at 100.
I don't mean to argumentative, but there is only room for the nut to rotate a couple of degrees, at most. Yes, the barrel nut could loosen slightly but not enough that a properly torqued barrel nut will be "loose". Just to prove it to myself I just fit a group of loose parts I had laying around and tested it. Even after rotating the few degrees that is possible there is plenty of torque on the barrel nut to sufficiently retain it.
Bear in mind, this is academic argument. I have never observed a properly torqued barrel nut that had loosened significantly in service, nor have I ever even heard of one. I have observed improperly installed barrel nuts that were hand tight or less. The weapons functioned fine, but I doubt with much accuracy.
motorwerks
07-09-10, 21:03
Bear in mind, this is academic argument. I have never observed a properly torqued barrel nut that had loosened significantly in service, nor have I ever even heard of one. I have observed improperly installed barrel nuts that were hand tight or less. The weapons functioned fine, but I doubt with much accuracy.
in reality wheres it going to go if it does loosen? The handguard/gas tube are going to keep it from getting looser then a couple ft-lbs
in reality wheres it going to go if it does loosen? The handguard/gas tube are going to keep it from getting looser then a couple ft-lbs
I think that was my point in the previous paragraph...
...but there is only room for the nut to rotate a couple of degrees, at most. Yes, the barrel nut could loosen slightly but not enough that a properly torqued barrel nut will be "loose". Just to prove it to myself I just fit a group of loose parts I had laying around and tested it. Even after rotating the few degrees that is possible there is plenty of torque on the barrel nut to sufficiently retain it.
in reality wheres it going to go if it does loosen? The handguard/gas tube are going to keep it from getting looser then a couple ft-lbs
See this thread: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=36888
motorwerks
07-11-10, 11:54
I think that was my point in the previous paragraph...
oops reading isnt my strong point. :D
What part of AZ are you in? Since I am also in AZ maybe I can show or assist you.
PM sent.
I had a barrel nut loosen on an issued M4. Rifle went from shooting good groups to shooting patterns, the barrel didn't fall out but the rifle was for practical purposes non functional.
My guess is that it missed the torque three times or it was not done with enough enthusiasm, then lined up at minimum spec. The gas tube stopping the barrel nut will also cause a gas tube alignment/drag issue.
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