Your opinions - "pimp my first carbine"

[SCTSQRL]

I thought it might be appropriate for my first general post to be a "where do I go from here?" post - I've been reading around here for a few months, learning quite a bit, and I have a general idea of where I want this - my first m4gery carbine - to go. I'm looking for suggestions, then, as to the exactitudes of the matter.

I got my first AR last week, very much an entry-level. Del-Ton H-Bar, with MOE furniture. I had been planning on Noveske from the get go, not simply for quality but also because I'm a fierce PNW loyalist and like to keep things local when I can - I love what they do down there. BUT, I'm also a grad student and a victim of Bear-Sterns, so cost is an issue - and the deal I got on this thing will more than make up for the amount of upgrading I'll have to do.

My AR experience is very limited, though I've been generally knowledgeable regarding the platform for some time and have learned quite a bit lurking here. I didn't grow up in a gun family, but became a lever-lover in the scouts, and sunk into collector mode during high school and undergrad when I started hunting regularly - Oregon made rifles and Star pistols. I'm also no stranger to rail systems and carbines in general, from experience with Kalashnikov and Galil. Neither, however, have the bredth of modification that ARs have. I am very much a newbie, and aware of it.

The basic stats:

Del-Ton (DTI) H-Bar build.
5.56x45 spec chamber & barrel.
Barrel is Del-Ton heavy profile, carbine length gas, 1:9 twist.

First, I can elaborate on it's planned usage. I envision the setup evolving both into a semi-precision weapon, as well as a training tool. My raw personal defense needs are currently covered by my trunk-monkey Kalashnikov and my handguns. However, I am planning on doing my national service in Israel starting sometime next year, and it is my understanding that citizens can import one, and only one, rifle. If I choose to do so, which may be cost prohibitive, I would prefer it to be this rifle. So, it will be an almost exclusively defensive weapon. Barring that, the balance of training/semi-precision combat remain.

To establish what I already have planned:
NFA: SBR paperwork is filled out and waiting for me to get to the mailman, so (optimistic) eta on that is three months. I am planning on a Noveske Afghani barrel, initially. I am undecided about running suppressed, but I would be interested in the Vltor option, or something as affordable.

Optics: I am settled on the Lucid HD7 - I know, it's not high profile. However, it has been highly recommended to me by a friend in the Statie's fish & game who has put his through some pretty hard abuse and swears by it, so I'm sold at it's price. I have an Aimpoint on my Kalashnikov, and could switch it over if for some reason the Lucid fails to satisfy. I currently have the Magpul BUIS.

Internals settled: I have the BCM bolt and charging handle in next months budget, as well as a Magpul ambi-sling attachment. It has been recommended to me that I replace the buffer, spring, O ring, extractor, and the rest of the extraction-buffer system. The "SOPMOD" upgrade kit at BCM looks like it covers half of that. I'm operating on the assumption that I'll want an improved buffer system as well, and am open to suggestions.

SO, that said, the things I would like to address but don't know/don't have a preference on approaching:

I wouldn't know a good stake job if it hit me in the face - no matter how good the reference thread. Is mine OK/can I wait on the BCM? I would like to run a foward facing bi-pod, and a magpul AFG. Not sure how best to make it work with this setup. Yes, I know I need some rail sections. Would there be any stark advantages/disadvantages to getting a railed gasblock for flip down sights, that may help the bipod issue? I like the look of the post, but.. I would also like a 6.8 upper, for hunting and other uses. That in mind, along with the SPR route, how much should I put into the basic del-ton stuff? Should I leave it pretty much 'KISS' as the target build? Also, how much of a pain is it, really, to change barrels and gas systems - am I better off having three seperate uppers for what I want?
Any other suggestions/comments?


I also figure I'll need a much better sling. I like the Magpul offering, but I assume I'll need to add a side sling attachment, in addition to the stock attachment already planned? I've heard good things about Blue Force, as well - but the idea of a sling that is both 1 and 2-point appeals to me.

Finally, I still need to consider "rig" options for training and general use. I'm not one to indulge in paranoid dreams of societal collapse/zombie apocalypse/freelance muj hunting. I also hold to the mantra of training for most common use. So, I'm reticent to spend a bunch of money on a vest, unless it really is an invaluable training tool. Reloading from a vest is a pain and a half, I've already learned that lesson. In a "more than two mag" situation, is a slung active shooter style bag practical?

Thanks for the opinions, good to be on M4c and finally posting among you fine folks. Some gun porn as the thread purpose and payoff theme is "Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms":

IMINT:
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[Chameleox]

There was (is) a wise man here who once said, "go shoot the gun".
My first thought was that you should have waited for the Noveske, if thats what you really wanted, but you dance with the one that brung ya, so...

Figure out what your AR shooting style is, whether or not you like the platform at all, etc., before trying to add stuff on, like rail estate, AFG, bipods, etc. Buying spare internal parts, like the extractor upgrade, is a good start, as might be a BCM Bolt Carrier Group (no, that is not a good stake job on yours).

Right now, I'd suggest just buying ammo, and shooting it till you decide that something's not quite right.

NFA-wise: Israel might let you import a firearm, but the US might not let you export one if its NFA. Not a lawyer, just saying do your homework.

[Lnxgeek]

"Reloading from a vest is a pain and a half".

I would buy at least 1 mag belt carrier for training before buying any vests.
Later on you can buy the vest.
Once you have a vest you should reload from the belt magazine carrier, replenish it from the vest when it is convenient.

[perna]

So you bought this rifle, and in a week you want to send out NFA paperwork? Can I ask how many rounds you put through it?

[SCTSQRL]

"Reloading from a vest is a pain and a half".

I would buy at least 1 mag belt carrier for training before buying any vests.
Later on you can buy the vest.
Once you have a vest you should reload from the belt magazine carrier, replenish it from the vest when it is convenient.

Same lines I was thinking on, Brother. I'm not at all sold on the vest idea/harness idea, period - had edited out a belt mag carrier comment when I was rewording that sentence - I currently have two belt mag holders, which I will likely upgrade to Ravens, or a comparable slim line alternative. I'd be very interested to hear some opinions on high round count training comparisons to an "active shooter" bag and a vest, as far as all that goes - keeping in mind what you're saying about feeding from the waist, as I've grown used to and approve of.

Chameleox - wise words indeed. I've gotten it out and about alot over the last few days, to sight in and test reliability, etc. I haven't been feeding it anything nicer than Federal, but it's done OK so far - over about 197 rounds (there were three horrifically mutated loads in the wally world boxes) I had two double feeds, one necessary forward assist usage.

I would generally agree with the wait for the Noveske sentiment, but the deal was screaming - less than the generic, even less impressive bushies and RRAs. I penciled out before I purchased, and even with the most cool guy features that I was looking for - milspec 1:7 or 1:8 barrel, 14.5 inch SBR, tier-1 bolt and extractor system, on a total upgrade from the lower, excluding parts kit - I like basic triggers - on up, I'd come in ≈ three hundred dollars less than an NIB Afghani. And, I certainly don't need quad railed free float, etc. right now, if ever. I spent a long time with Rob_s' charts.

Perna - Valid observation. Just under 200, so far - just under 400 to go this weekend. Under, because there is some seriously bad brass in my current supply. I had the form 1 mostly filled before I made the purchase, because I had originally planned on getting an Afghani or a comparable 14-14.5 inch SBR; I prefer the form factor. I haven't made any final decisions in the area, but I am pleased with the quality of the trigger group and the construction of the lower - everything else can, of course, evolve. The NFA consideration opposed to export issue is also something to consider, as mentioned. I'm thinking that may not be doable.

[rob_s]

First, I can elaborate on it's planned usage. I envision the setup evolving both into a semi-precision weapon, as well as a training tool. My raw personal defense needs are currently covered by my trunk-monkey Kalashnikov and my handguns. However, I am planning on doing my national service in Israel starting sometime next year, and it is my understanding that citizens can import one, and only one, rifle. If I choose to do so, which may be cost prohibitive, I would prefer it to be this rifle. So, it will be an almost exclusively defensive weapon. Barring that, the balance of training/semi-precision combat remain.


I would look into, and verify, the above. If it proves to not be the case I would do my best to discover, and then replicate, exactly what you are likely to be issued, and then train with that configuration here before you leave.

[SCTSQRL]

Rob,

Your charts are a tormentor, and I mean that in the kindest way.
Gun ownership in Israel is not the "RTKBA" dream that some characterize it as, over here. To my understanding, from other relatives who have taken up perm. living there, a citizen (or in some cases, permanent resident) may obtain one, and only one, handgun - which must be stored securely according to the typical old world gun storage mentalities: locked and unloaded by night. In addition, if one is a member of a shooting club (there is an IDPA presence and practical rifle clubs, for example) one may keep one rifle in a similar manner.

I should clarify that I didn't mean to suggest that one as a citizen can cowboy up and bring over whatever they want to roll out with in their fabulous purple berets, or whatever. Merely that they may import one rifle for personal ownership, and I feel an additional 5.56 or 6.8 would serve me better than a 300wm, since I haven't seen any mule deer or spider elk on the Golan heights the few times I've been over.

Should I elect to do the national service, which is in my case optional as a natural born american, I would not get much say at all in what I was issued - similar to our own armed forces, it's "needs of the service" - but one has even less say in where they are stuck, especially potential mahal volunteers. So, hypothetical scenario: I press hard, on arrival, for a k9 handling job - which likely would be my interest. Golani brigade and Nahal both have k9 detachments, and both those detatchments are issued Tavor. A weapons system that is unavailable here. The other alternative is a CAR style m4 platform.

Since brigade placement is arbitrary, and dictates issue weapon along with occupational factors, and recruitment group date, it would be an excersize in futility to make this a "match to train" project. In either case, I'd only be over there for two years unless I develop a miraculous taste for humidity and falafel - neither of which seem likely. Would only be bringing the AR over as preferential backup, in the case that I do get pinned with a Tavor - which I am not fond of - import fees amount to around a 150% tax, so in the end it would be an as-circumstances-dictate decision.

[devildogljb]

I would def get a new stake job done on you bcg from what i can tell from the picture. As for running a bipod and a afg is a little weird in my mind. Have you looked into a running a grip pod? its not a afg but youll have the bipod built right into a vertical fore grip.

[SCTSQRL]

Devil Dog,

Thanks for the input - I agree that getting a bipod and an AFG on a carbine length with MOEs seems bizzare - was hoping someone who had tried it might have input. In regards to the grip pod, and similar products, I've never found the idea appealing - I can't get into the aesthetics, and a long VFG doesn't suit my shooting style - actual or idealized. My actual style, so far, has been unfortunately a tendancy to go for a magazine well grip. I've never heard anything positive about that, from a physics standpoint - especially with as heavy a set up as this carbine is, right now. However, my hand keeps drifting back that way because of the carbine length handgaurds - I have a big wingspan. I know I'm not the first to say it, and I won't be the last, but I would love some mid length MOEs.

Rob_S,

For the posterity of google's spider in future, I should update that I've found since last reply that newer laws than those I was appraised of also mandate a three year residency in addition to aforementioned military status and citizenship towards private (non-issue) rifle ownership. So, exporting is no longer an issue whatsoever.

[whiskey6]

Did I read something about zombies.............there every were ya know
e v e r y w e r e :eek: AH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH