Copies of Form 1s and 4s

[CarlosDJackal]

Recently, someone informed me that according to his lawyers making a full-sized color copy of your NFA Forms (IE: Form 1 or 4) can get you into trouble because it could be construed as counterfieting an official document. The exception would be if the size was reduced to at least 70% of the original document or if the full-size copy is black-and-white.

Has anyone else heard this? Just curious.

[Army Chief]

I certainly haven't, and am not sure that this would dissuade me from making 1:1 copies. Perhaps this depends upon how one might care to define "official documents," since these are effectively tax documents, and not, for example, legal tender currency or some other kind of negotiable instrument.

I can see the logic of staying with black and white, of course, since nothing good can come from presenting a form that looks a bit too conspicuously like an original (but isn't). For some reason, a b&w copy doesn't arouse much suspicion, but an excellent color reproduction could well lead some to think that perhaps they are looking at a Photoshop project.

Whatever the case, I would much rather end up trying to explain why I duplicated a prohibited form than to find myself unable to prove that the weapon in my hands was a registered NFA item.

AC

[variablebinary]

I keep color copies inside the weapon stock or grip. It's obviously reduced size.

Copies is never a bad thing, and will bail you out of drama when life goes wrong.

[QuietShootr]

Recently, someone informed me that according to his lawyers making a full-sized copy of your NFA Forms (IE: Form 1 or 4) can get you into trouble because it could be construed as counterfieting an official document. The exception would be if the size was reduced to at least 70% of the original document or if the full-size copy is black-and-white.

Has anyone else heard this? Just curious.

Smells like bullshit to me. Anyway, I simply take mine to Staples, have them color-copied and reduced to luggage tag size, and laminated. Then, I simply fold it up and stick it in the MIAD grip of the weapon the paper is for, and the one for the associated suppressor. If I take the gun, I've got the paperwork.

[Boss Hogg]

An original tax stamp is green and white, which doesn't copy on a B/W copier. If you're making a B/W copy of an actual Form 1/4, then it's not a forgery. If you change something on that form before/after you copy, then it would be construed as a forgery. I'd make it a B/W copy- I suspect that if the LEO who wants to see your papers has doubts about the validity they will call Martinsburg.

[Robb Jensen]

That's ridiculous.
If you make a color copy of a Form 1/4 you can clearly tell that a real tax stamp isn't on the copy. Also if you are the owner of said approved Form 1/4 how the hell is it a forgery? It's not like it's money. If I make a copy of the deed to my house is it a forgery since I own the F'ing house and the original deed? Or if I make a copy of my Federal tax form 1040 every year for tax purposes is it a forgery? I think whoever told you that bullshit needs to find a hobby. Sounds like the same kind of person that thinks because your VA CHP reads 'handgun' (singular) that this means you can't carry more than one 'handgun'.

[Iraqgunz]

I think that someone needs to get a new lawyer that isn't practicing in the shit house.

[beavo451]

I call BS as well. "Counterfeiting" would also imply that you are trying to pass something off as authentic. A copy is a representation. Now if you copy somebody else's form and try to pass it off as your own, then that would be counterfeiting/forgery/whatever.

[RetreatHell]

I was told by my C3 FFL that copies need to be in black and white, not color. Never heard anything about different sizes.

I just have a copy of each form 1&4 in both gun bags, range bag, and Form 1s folded up tightly and stuffed in MIAD/MOE grips.

[dbrowne1]

I cannot believe that copying a Form 1 or Form 4 would be any problem.

First of all, unless you are copying it in order to ALTER it (i.e., change the serial number on the form so you can pass off another SBR as being properly registered and tax-paid) then what exactly have you accomplished by copying it? You've still paid the tax on, and are entitled to possess, only the one unique and serialized item listed on it.

Second, what you are copying is nothing more than a tax form. People make copies of their own 1040 for income taxes every year to keep for their records.

I have a 3 ring binder that usually lives in my car and contains a copy of my trust and a tab for each item with a copy of its Form 1/4 and any other relevant materials (like interstate transport forms). As others have said, I am far more likely to need to prove to a cop on the roadside that my SBR or SBS is legally possessed than to get into a debate with an IRS or ATF agent about whether I'm supposed to copy my forms. I can almost hear every federal prosecutor and federal judge I know laughing about this issue as a I type this.

[Dolphinvet]

I don't personally know anybody who DOESN'T copy their approved form 1/4. I have a binder in one of my safes that contains the "green stamp" originals, and have made 3 copies of each one. I carry one with each NFA weapon, and have 2 others that I have in other locations if I carry the weapon, so I can prove it's mine legally. Someone else in this thread cried bullshit and I echo that. Everybody makes a copy of their form, even my C3 dealer made a copy of my forms prior to me taking possession of my silencers after approval for his own records. The lawyer who stated that simply doesn't know what they are talking about.

[CarlosDJackal]

I was told by my C3 FFL that copies need to be in black and white, not color...

My bad, I failed to add "color" in my original post. Copying the forms is not the issue.

It's copying the forms full-sized AND in color that may be an issue. If you make a colored copy at a reduced size is also okay.

Thanks for the responses.

[kalikraven]

If it became an issue of if the form is of a real registered item or not a call to the NFA branch would clear it up.