FNP-45 Tactical vs HK 45 - which would you pick? [Archive]

View Full Version : FNP-45 Tactical vs HK 45 - which would you pick?

xamoel

07-12-10, 11:55

good afternoon!

as the forum's search function doesn't seem to be working, i'll just start a new thread on this surely old topic. i've clicked myself through 18 pages of the handgun forum, but couldn't find this exact question.

now for the question: i'll soon be buying my one and only .45, and am looking at the choices out there. plz no comments on glocks, i don't want to focus on them right now. as i said, which .45 do you prefer, and why?

fnp-45 tactical:
-15 rounds
-interchangeable backstraps
-mount for MRDS
-threaded barrel
-tall sights for suppresor use
-ambi controls
-da/sa trigger

hk45:
-10 rounds
-interchangeable backstraps
-threaded barrel available
-tall (night) sights hard to find
-ambi controls
-LEM trigger available
-great ergonomics

the round count is definitely in favor of the FNP, but the ergos on the HK45 are really impressive.
is a DAO version without safety/decocker available from FNP?
how does the manufacturing quality compare?

what else comes to your mind, that might influence the decision (except price of course)?

loupav

07-12-10, 12:42

I have an HK45 and love it. I've fired the FNP45 about a year ago and can not remember too much about it's ergonomics. But I do remember that it was a pleasant to shoot weapon.

I would take the HK45 hands down. I'm very familiar with HK's and I shoot my HK45 well enough. That and I have a lot of gear to support the HK45. Living in California, I can't have the 5 extra rounds that the FN could afford me anyway. That being said, I still want an FNP45. I'm on the search for one now.

Both weapons are well made and come from reputable manufactures. Either way you go you're getting a handgun good enough to fight the zombies all day long. :D

CyberM4

07-12-10, 13:37

I went with the HK45. It fit my hand better the the FNP45 did.

John_Wayne777

07-12-10, 14:33

I would also be inclined to select the HK45 with the LEM system. I tried one of the prototype FN-45 tactical guns and while it's a very neat concept, the ergonomics of the pistol didn't leave me excited to see it in production. As polymer .45's go, my two top choices would be the HK45 or the M&P .45. Note that both have a ten round mag capacity, meaning they fit a wider range of hands well than the very large grip of the FN-45. If you have hands like Grape Ape, the FN may be more your speed.

ShipWreck

07-12-10, 14:57

Have you noticed all the complaints about the FNP 45s not working with certain brands of ammo. Someone (I think it was at the FN Forum) posted that they contacted FN, who admitted that the specs of the WWB ammo is causing problems with the FN mags.

I have owned an HK45 and HK45c before. Fantastic guns!

Serpico1985

07-12-10, 15:03

Did you get a chance to put some rounds through Todd's HK45? He mentioned in his last report that you were going to help him out with that.

If you did I would assume your saving your comments for a report on his website or something similar. It seems that if you've shot both you would be able to provide some insight reference the op's question.

Look forward to reading it.

Xamoel,
I think right now the only tall/supressor sights for the HK45 is made by heinie. Shouldn't be too hard to get.

It also seems HK offers far more tigger set ups than the FNP. You've got 9 difference variations to switch the controls around plus a few different combinations of the LEM trigger (using different springs).

The price of mags is still retarded and HK dosen't have a good reputation for customer service in the past. Latley the guys at HKUSA have been getting great reviews for customer service so it seems that is changing.

Good luck

6933

07-12-10, 15:49

HK; hands down.

xamoel

07-12-10, 17:01

pretty much the responses i expected to hear.
i've heard there were feeding issues with the mags of the fnp, but they should be resolved by now i guess?

does someone maybe own both, and could provide some further details, f.e. regarding triggers and overall perfomance/reliability?

99HMC4

07-12-10, 17:04

+1 for the HK45. One of the best pistols I ever owned....:D

The Dumb Gun Collector

07-12-10, 17:34

I ran about 13k of ammo through my Hk45 before I got tired of shooting it. Excellent gun. I have enjoyed shooting the FN also. Between the two I would pick the HK45 but I really don't think you can go wrong.

John_Wayne777

07-12-10, 18:09

Did you get a chance to put some rounds through Todd's HK45? He mentioned in his last report that you were going to help him out with that.

I did indeed. I'm writing up my thoughts on the almost 600 rounds I got to put through the pistol Saturday.

TAZ

07-12-10, 23:38

What do you intend to do with this one and only one 45???

Cant speak first hand for the FN as I only handled it in the store, but that thing was HUGE for my hands. To put things in perspective the HK was with the small backstrap was still an RCH too big for my teeny hands. I ran my HK45 with the light LEM trigger and it was good to go. The LEM takes some getting used to though so give yourself a chance if you go that route.

I guess between those 2 the HK would be my choice, but knowing what you intend to do may give people more to go on.

xamoel

07-12-10, 23:43

i wonder if the FNP feature a polygonal barrel?

if not, that would be definitely be a disadvantage, wouldn't it?

edit: good point. it's primarily supposed to be a SD and hunting gun.

forgiven

07-13-10, 00:15

HK45 - easily.

The FNP45 is just alright, the rear slide serrations are pretty sharp and the mags aren't great with WWB, (which is what I normally buy to practice with).

- The HK45 is probably the best .45 on the market -

vecdran

07-13-10, 02:41

HK45 by a standing mile.

opmike

07-13-10, 04:08

i wonder if the FNP feature a polygonal barrel?

if not, that would be definitely be a disadvantage, wouldn't it?

No.

And the type of rifling used should probably be the last thing to concern yourself about when trying to decide between these two guns.

The HK45 is a more established platform at this point, and with universal praise. That would be my route.

xamoel

07-13-10, 07:53

i just thought that the general consensus was that polygonal rifling makes a barrel more durable and is to be preferred when having the choice.

TOrrock

07-13-10, 08:55

I really liked the FNP-45 Military prototype that both JW777 and I shot and handled, the FNP-45's ergonomics actually work better for me with my wookie paws than the HK (of which I've owned 2), but I honestly feel that the HK45 is probably one of the most bomb proof .45 ACP semi auto pistols made, period.

The FNP-45 Military was one of the softest shooting .45 ACP's I've used.

Bullet has just left the muzzle.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Subgun%20Aug%202-3%2008/P1000828.jpg

And you can see the ejected case.....recoil management was excellent for me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Subgun%20Aug%202-3%2008/P1000829.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Subgun%20Aug%202-3%2008/P1000790.jpg

Skyyr

07-13-10, 10:48

If price is no objection, go with the HK45. It's based on a VERY well-established platform (and is well-established as its own platform as well) and has a proven trials record. As others have stated, it's virtually bomb-proof.

HOWEVER...

If price is a factor, I would not feel under-gunned with the FNP. I actually posted an FNP/X vs HK thread a few weeks back as both guns are very similar, both ergonomically and functionally. The FNP offers virtually everything the HK45 does... for less. I think the HK has had more testing and refinement, but few will ever run their guns hard enough for that to even matter.

kmrtnsn

07-13-10, 10:49

xamoel

07-13-10, 11:00

the LEM trigger is definitely one of the main advantages i see over the FNP, i really hope to see a DAO version of it soon, as they already produce one for the FNp 357 i think.
i also don't need a decocker and manual safety, let's hope they get rid of them soon.

btw in europe the price difference between those two guns is only 50€, both of them cost around 1600€.

maximus83

07-13-10, 11:04

Have tried both, like both, but the H&K is a well proven performer already, with some good public reliability testing results available as was mentioned. Also the FN is just HUGE, personally I would not want to even try to carry it in any kind of CCW scenario. So if I had to choose between these two, for myself, it would be the HK45. Now, if you'd let me choose whatever I wanted, then I'd stick with my M&P mid-size .45 (adding the APEX duty kit, which I plan to do soon). And my second choice, which I'd also take over either the HK or the FN, would be one of my tuned 1911's. http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=649042&postcount=63

Home defense? Duty weapon? Sure, if those were your scenarios then the FN becomes a viable choice, maybe even the preferred choice if (a) You like it and shoot it well, and (b) Its reliability is established. The high capacity has to be appealing, and would be a significant advantage in home defense or duty use provided that its reliable. I just haven't seen much evidence either way yet on the reliability of the hi-cap FN mags.

xamoel

07-13-10, 11:09

CCW unfortunately isn't allowed here anyway, so that wouldn't matter for now.
indeed, not much on the internet about long-term reliability of the FNP-45s.
but as FN is a major company that equips quite a lot of army branches, i think that shouldn't be an issue, considering the FNP-45 tactical was developed for the joint service pistol program.

John_Wayne777

07-13-10, 11:29

Never put too much faith in the fact that a company sells XX product to the military as a guarantee that their YY product is good.

xamoel

07-13-10, 12:26

I am an owner of multiple HK's, I love the ergos and the LEM trigger. That said, the only thing that keeps me from buying an FNP or FNX is that I don't care for DA/SA handguns. Rumor around here is that FN has a trigger group more to my liking in the works, we'll see.

would you mind posting a link to your source? i'm quite interested in it!

surely right, military contracts are often awarded by budget, not performance....

kmrtnsn

07-14-10, 00:01

Xamoel,

Google the FNX here at M4C, someone mentioned it in the FNX thread. I shot the FNP, I really liked it. For the $$$ it is one hell of a polymer pistol. At one time I guess they offered a DAO but no longer. If they fix the trigger group, I'll add one to the stable.

Stay safe,

Ken

Pappabear

07-14-10, 02:15

If I was going to put a can on it, the FNP is ready out of the box. I own both and shot both quite a bit. (Not the tactical FNP just FNP45). Both are great guns. Handle both and choose one, can't go wrong.

John Bonham

07-14-10, 03:23

I am kind of partial to the FNP 45. It fits my hand like a glove and the stippling feels great.

loupav

07-14-10, 10:21

Does anyone know if the FNP series was developed by FNH Belgium or FNH USA?

Just curious, thanks.

xamoel

07-14-10, 10:27

sorry, don't really know.

i've been thinking about some things i'd like to see on the FNP (i really like the idea of having the MRDS, if the FNP had the following, i would definitely prefer it over the HK45):
-DAO without MS
-polygonal rifling
-yellow rear (orange tritium lasts only 5 years, yellow 12)
-maybe a little better ergonomics for people with smaller hands
-maybe some sort of recoil reduction, like f.e. dual springs
-striker firing mechanism would be awesome, but that would surely require a redesign.

what are the odds of seeing any of those features f.e. in a FNX-45 Tactical? probably around 2020 i guess...

SuicideHz

07-14-10, 10:42

Damn, wish I could find the pictures of the FNP-45 with the FDE Osprey!!

redsox20

07-14-10, 11:11

Damn, wish I could find the pictures of the FNP-45 with the FDE Osprey!!

something like this

http://www.silencerco.com/Silencerco/#/45Osprey%20Dark%20Earth%20Edition%20Features/

mashed68

07-14-10, 11:23

If your biggest concern is eat all ammo and reliability then go with the HK, its been proven.
Personally, I'd take the FNP45. I love how it feels [I also like glock 21's if that tells you something] and I've always been a fan of FN.

SuicideHz

07-14-10, 11:29

Yeah, This:

http://www.silencerco.com/Silencerco/#/45Osprey%20Dark%20Earth%20Edition%20Features/ (http://www.silencerco.com/Silencerco/#/45Osprey%20Dark%20Earth%20Edition%20Features/)

damn. Doesn't work this way. go to the page linked above, click products, click info under 45 osprey FDE and look at image on FNP-45

Palmguy

07-14-10, 11:48

xamoel

07-14-10, 12:56

sounds good, but the more i think about it, the more i like the concept of the pre-milled slide!

is there any other gun with that feature right now? or do we just have to wait till this idea becomes mainstream?

az larry

07-14-10, 15:55

I picked up an FNP45 and like it a lot. I put on the Ameriglo suppressor sights thinking once the FNP45 Tac came out I'd buy the threaded BBL and be all set. I have no use for the milled slide.

Unfortunatley, FNH won't sell the threaded bbl and I don't care for shiny stainless aftermarket bbls. I'm hoping someone will buy an FNP tactical who wants to run a red dot but no can, so I can trade bbls plus some cash.

My FNP45 shoots very well. I used to have an HK Tac and never liked it, nor the Mark 23. The FNP looks huge but doesn't feel huge. Hard to explain unless you shoot it.

But I'm super pissed that FN won't sell the threaded bbl, and I'll be damned if I'll buy another pistol just to get the friggin bbl.

CQC.45

07-14-10, 22:59

Between the two, I would go HK45 (LEM)

Given my own choice, the M&P45

warpigM-4

07-14-10, 23:10

HK hands down

ColdDeadHands

07-15-10, 07:08

If the FN fits your hands then go or it...for me the grip feels much worse then the Glock 21 grip. I'd personally go for the HK45 between these 2...

xamoel

07-15-10, 09:46

brutus895

07-15-10, 10:05

Haven't shot the FNP, but have handled it several times. I'd have to say HK all the way.

TOrrock

07-15-10, 10:16

on the FN forum i heard that the FNP doesn't have a polygonal barrel. but as i read the specs of the FNP-45T, it definitely says "hammer forged", and only polygonal (or pretty close to polygonal) barrels are made using the hammer forge process, correct?

Just because a barrel is hammer forged, does not mean it's polygonally rifled.

I would not get wrapped around the axle about polygonal rifling....it's nice, but not a deal breaker (for me).

xamoel

07-15-10, 10:51

alright, my knowledge of hammer forging doesn't extend very far, maybe i understood something wrong.

i'm just trying to weigh the pros and cons from what i know about the guns already.

John_Wayne777

07-15-10, 12:13

xamoel

07-15-10, 12:53

i've heard some of those things as well, but the only problem regarding the FNP-45 T (for now) is some winchester white box ammo not feeding properly, either due to out of spec length of the cartridge or extremely tight tolerances of the mags.

hopefully no frame cracking issues or anything else will come up, but the .45 line of the FNPs has been around a while, don't know what issues they have?

Mr. Goodtimes

07-15-10, 18:03

I would go with the HK45 simply because I thought the FN was a brick. Also, FWIW, i just thought that all of the FNP line of handguns felt sort of "cheasy" compared to other plastic guns such as glock, smith and wesson, and HK.

whiterabbit05

07-15-10, 18:28

I admittedly know very little about the new FN line of handguns...but I have heard some disturbing things:

- Use of sub-standard polymer in the fire control system, leading to critical failures.
- Frame cracking
- Use of sub-standard metal parts, including injection molded sears that are butter soft

Etc.

Can someone who does know the guns well comment on those things?

The very first FNPs had problems with the FCG cracking. This problem has been fixed by beefing the FCG up and cracking issues are now almost unheard of.

Haven't heard of frames cracking or sear issues...

Cincinnatus

07-15-10, 18:49

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=31077

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=41096

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=30181

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=28953

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=36668

Cincinnatus

07-15-10, 18:59

I admittedly know very little about the new FN line of handguns...but I have heard some disturbing things:

- Use of sub-standard polymer in the fire control system, leading to critical failures.
- Frame cracking
- Use of sub-standard metal parts, including injection molded sears that are butter soft

Etc.

Can someone who does know the guns well comment on those things?
They (FN) do use MIM parts. http://www.phillipsplastics.com/assets/files/MIM%20Gets%20Tough.pdf

Tango374

07-16-10, 01:10

If its between the two, I'd lay down more coin for the HK. I did not care at all for the extremely large frame of the FN. Just too big for my hands to feel comfortable.
Never fired it though....

Magic_Salad0892

07-16-10, 03:01

I've never owned a .45 variant of HK, but I have owned a 9x19mm USP.

Just from how well that gun handles, go with the HK.

Kool Aid

07-16-10, 08:29

HK45. Mine is not a picky eater. After 12,000 rounds, most of which were my own reloads, it has been flawless.

Leprechaun

07-16-10, 16:05

Hands down the HK45 is the winner.It is well built, accurate and reliable

Alien

07-16-10, 21:39

HK45 or HK45c.

xamoel

07-18-10, 01:24

thanks for all your input, but i just can't justify buying a 2000$ pistol if i'm not 100% convinced of it. and atm neither the HK45 nor the FNP-45 does that for me.

i'll probably wait for a new version without MS and DAO of the FNP-45, or maybe HK will start producing some higher-capacity .45s.

loupav

07-18-10, 10:29

Which of the two pistols costs $2k?

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_47_913/products_id/52296

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_245/products_id/53896

I shot 265 rounds through my HK45 yesterday and I couldn't be happier with the weapon. 1500 +/- 25 rounds since a cleaning and it just keeps going. Another 500 rounds to hit the 2000 challenge.

In any case, good luck in your search. Have you given much thought to an M&P45 or a Glock 21?

Cincinnatus

07-18-10, 11:37

Th Hk45 is usually about $850-1100 and the FN45P is usually around $650-800. Neither is close to $2k.

CyberM4

07-18-10, 11:52

ColdDeadHands

07-18-10, 12:20

Th Hk45 is usually about $850-1100 and the FN45P is usually around $650-800. Neither is close to $2k.

I believe the OP is from europe...guns are more expensive there for the most part.

Edit* Checking some german sites confirms that some of the weapons are more expensive; Glocks are ~$699 and a HK P30 is $879....Beretta 92 FS Inox is ~$1300...

xamoel

07-19-10, 07:25

Omega Man

07-19-10, 10:52

Im curious as to what you find lacking in the HK45? Im not sure there is such a thing as a perfect pistol.

xamoel

07-19-10, 11:25

f.e. i'd like a higher map capacity, more options on night sights, and, most of all, i'd love to see the MRDS mount of the FNP-45. on every handgun basically.

Serpico1985

07-19-10, 11:36

xamoel,

In reference to the two issues you have the HK45. There was a thread over on hkpro forums where a member designed a new extended base plate that added plus 2 to the HK45 fullsize 10 round mag. Haven't checked it in months but if I'm not mistaken he had the part fabricated and was t&eing it. I have no idea if it is available. If you spend some time over there you could find it and contact the guy who designed it.

Currently there are two night sight options for the HK45. One is meprolight tru dot nite sights with a novak style 3 dot design. The other is the Heinie straight 8's.

Good luck

Omega Man

07-19-10, 11:39

It would be nice if HK would come out with a 12, or even 14 rd mag for the HK45.

Cincinnatus

07-19-10, 12:28

indeed i am from europe.
the HK45 used to cost around 1500USD, but since it is no longer produced in germany, i'd have to import it, that makes it quite expensive. 1800 euros for the FNP-45, and 1500 for the HK45.

since neither is "perfect" imo, i'm just gonna wait till something new comes out, as i can't justify spending that much money on a handgun.

In that case, you could go with a Glock 21. And if you want a RDS on a pistol, competive shooters have all types of mounts to put one on a handgun. Not as low profile as the FN, true, but they are an option. IMO, I think a laser would be better on a pistol than an RDS anyway if you were going to use it for defense.

DarwinsLilHelper

07-19-10, 12:35

I'm also pretty sure there is no perfect pistol.

My only problem with the H&K. Is that every time I see the grip on one. The theme song from some long forgotten childhood Spiderman cartoon starts running though my head. The Grip seriously looks like something out of a Spiderman Comic book. Which given the fact that the grip works fine ergonomically, is very small potato's in the grand scheme of things.

My problems with the FNP series are a little more serious than how they look. In fact tacticool good looks is about all the FNP series has going for them. Because inside they're cheap plastic and poorly cast MIM (Metal Injection Molding).

The FNP fire control group is a prime example of Computer Assisted Design gone horribly wrong in the execution. I'm sure the design looked fine on a computer model. Where all of the parts were the proper ISO tolerance. The only problem being that Phillips Plastics wasn't able to produce a MIM cast metal sear to those tolerances.

I'm also pretty sure the plastic Fire Control Housing didn't flex every time the trigger was pulled in double action, in the Computer Assisted Design Animation of "How the trigger should actually work." either.

You see. The FNP fire control groups problem isn't just one problem, but several design execution problems, that combine to produce a synergistic failure.

The two pieces of the FNP DA/SA split MIM Sear ride on a sear pin that runs horizontally though the fire control group. The tolerance of the holes in both halves of the MIM sear Group, that the sear pin goes though are out of spec. The holes are to large for the pin allowing both sides of the sear group to tent upward during the trigger pull, in a ^ shape. The hammer hangs up on the -^ side of the tented sear causing a FTF.

I've been told (well actually hysterically screamed at. ) That FN has fixed the problem and that the problem only occurred in early FNP's, but I have yet to run into anyone, that can actually tell me how or when it was fixed. This supposed fix seems to be based more an article of unquestioning faith in the Tacticool FNH pistol gods than on any substantiated information.

Every picture I've seen of the FNP .45's and the FNX's shows the same plastic fire control housing and the same MIM Split Sear.

Winfields link in this thread clearly shows Phillips Plastics is the caster of FNP .45 sears. (Thanks for that link Winfield...It was a puzzle piece I'd been looking for and wished I'd had sooner.)

The Tactical Version of the FNP .45 goes for about a grand. It's really the version intended as the competitor to the H&K's higher end modified USP's and P-30's. For a grand I believe that FNH could have come up with steel sear components and a metal fire control housing similar to what Sig was able to do in the $500.00 price range with the Sig 250 series stainless fire control housing.

In the final analysis. The FNP .45 Tactical is a $1000.00 Flat Dark Earth High, Speed Low Drag Uber tactical Pistol on the outside, with the MIM and Plastic guts of a $399.00 Taurus 845 or 24/7 inside.

loupav

07-19-10, 23:57

Wow! Thank you Darwin.

Could you please send me the link? (PM me if necessary.)

Thanks,
Louis

Omega Man

07-20-10, 00:04

Very informative post, Darwin.

DarwinsLilHelper

07-20-10, 00:29

Loupav: The Phillips Plastics link is in one of Winfield813's posts on page 3 of this thread. About midway down the page. It's in a post all by itself.

I'd repost the link but that would be unnecessarily redundant.

I think my favorite part is the place where Phillips Plastics assure us all that these parts can't be produced any cheaper.

It reminds me of the interview with the astronaut. Where they ask him "Whats it like to ride in the space shuttle" and the astronaut replies "It's like riding in a machine with 500,000 moving and electrical parts, all subcontracted to the lowest bidder."

I'm not sure I'd want to bet my life on a MIM sear and a plastic fire control housing produced by the Lowest Possible Bidder.