View Full Version : KB'd my 9mm AR today...
Well I spent the day at the range today with my new BCM 11.5" upper and tried to put some rounds through my 9mm AR.
I put about 100 rounds through the 9mm with no problems. It sounded great with the Matrix9 on it.
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/51/159d607da2a40c2ec313049687436729.jpg
Down at the 50 yard range I proceeded to put another mag through it. Then all of a sudden BOOM. One of the rounds blew shit all over my face and arm from out of the ejection port.
I turned the rifle over and saw an obliterated case halfway out of the ejection port:
http://www2.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/51/7c7b9ef2c72df853735f68e25344e50e.jpg
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/original/7c7b9ef2c72df853735f68e25344e50e.jpg
I dislodged it and was like "holy $hit!" I almost went to put the mag back in after I cleared it but thought to check the chamber. Sure enough, there was a 147gr. Rainier with it's a$$ sticking out of the chamber.
So I knew that was it for the day as far as the 9mm went as I hadn't brought any steel cleaning rods to try and bang it out with.
So I get home and go to pound it out. Rod goes about 9" into the 10.5" barrel. I ghasp very loudly. I bang on it with a hammer and it drops the rest of the way. I then proceed to bang VERY hard with the hammer until I pop out not only one, but two bullets.
I must have had a squib round- it went about 3" into the barrel. This poor case didn't stand a chance when the second bullet decided it wasn't going to move past the chamber.
I'm so thankful I didn't blow myself up. I got down on my knees in the garage and gave the guy upstairs a big thanks.
Click on links below pictures for larger images.
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/45/376171ca4e39f8d61176d3faf2328ce3.jpg
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/45/e2f983e7dfe5c707fc55d7a210d288b2.jpg
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/original/e2f983e7dfe5c707fc55d7a210d288b2.jpg1
http://www2.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/51/5a1265feb5b35c42b3c27e46cd906e7c.jpg
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/original/5a1265feb5b35c42b3c27e46cd906e7c.jpg
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/45/2ebc4f894761f06338bac19a7b39310d.jpg
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/original/2ebc4f894761f06338bac19a7b39310d.jpg
http://www3.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/51/98283178b2078d420f703cb2fab79456.jpg
http://www1.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/51/385835ddf067c03b8db4e0b2d68c667d.jpg
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/original/385835ddf067c03b8db4e0b2d68c667d.jpg
Click the above link. This one shows some really nasty deformation in the brass!
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/45/605fa2a52d79bddb731589fd2be43a2f.jpg
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/original/605fa2a52d79bddb731589fd2be43a2f.jpg
http://www4.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/51/e401ef2923c5939b5a78556de8438680.jpg
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/original/e401ef2923c5939b5a78556de8438680.jpg
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/45/1cd61fe2290d9b7b85228ac391011c83.jpg
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/original/1cd61fe2290d9b7b85228ac391011c83.jpg
http://www4.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/51/feaa3195c66045f1d0e777fc9b9ff3c4.jpg
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/original/feaa3195c66045f1d0e777fc9b9ff3c4.jpg
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/45/3b281c34e55ab8f13ee3f455cec13804.jpg
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/original/3b281c34e55ab8f13ee3f455cec13804.jpg
Squibbed bullet on right, KB bullet on left:
http://www.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/45/4fcd11062b4d5f638d2628e02e1c7110.jpg
I had one popped primer in the BCM that was a BITCH to clear too. It had gotten itself on top of the bolt, in the cam pin channel behind the pin.
Had to pull the pins and slide her off forward to get her apart.
What a day...
Wow! Good day to give thanks for sure... Glad you are OK! How is the rifle?
So the rifle is fine then?
With a bullet already lodged in the barrel, this could have turned out A LOT worse than it did.
Good to hear that the damage to you was minimal.
What damage was done to the gun?
-Jeff
I don't think any damage at all was done to the gun.
I took off the handguards and measured the OD of the barrel in front of the chamber. 0.669" everywhere I measured it.
Inside of chamber is clean now and looks fine. No outside visible evidence of damage- no deformation, discoloration, anything of that sorts.
I should chuck it in the vice and remove the barrel and take some pictures as well as measure the chamber and areas in front with the calipers as I rotate it to make sure nothing is out of round.
I guess this is one reason to go with Colt? HP tests? MPI etc.?
The barrel is marked 2/99. Isn't that awful old. Has it's bayo lug though.
Thanks for the good words guys. I walked away with nothing more than sunburn and dirty sunglasses.
You may want to wear more than sunglasses when you shoot.
I see rookies do that a lot, shoot with sunglasses or none at all.
How long have you been shooting?
PALADIN-hgwt
06-10-07, 08:54
xxxxx
Heavy Metal
06-10-07, 12:49
Silver primer in a Winchester case. It was a reload.
I usually always wear safety glasses. It's been all indoor shooting for me for so long, I mistplaced my tinted glasses and all I had was clear. It was too sunny for clear but then again I had one too many KBs for plain sunglasses too...
Yes, they were reloads. 3.6 grains of Accurate #5 and CCI Small Pistol Primers.
I usually always wear safety glasses. It's been all indoor shooting for me for so long, I mistplaced my tinted glasses and all I had was clear. It was too sunny for clear but then again I had one too many KBs for plain sunglasses too...
Yes, they were reloads. 3.6 grains of Accurate #5 and CCI Small Pistol Primers.
Glad you're OK. I'm sure you fun meter pegged on that one.
Were they crimped?
Yes, Crimped.
Would it have been worse had it happened earlier at the 25yd when I was bump firing from the shoulder?
Now that I've gotten it to run reliably suppressed after ramping the bolt and such, it is very easy to bump from the shoulder- controlled to a certain extent.
Outside of chamber measures 0.999" +/- 0.001 all the way around front to back.
Area in front of silver ring measures 0.800" +/-0.001 all the way around, front to back.
It was a tight fit going in and coming out of the A1 upper but it spun smoothly and went back in without a hitch.
Should I engrave a little 4 leaf clover on the side of this upper, same spot Noveske's cross goes? :D
Yes, Crimped.
Would it have been worse had it happened earlier at the 25yd when I was bump firing from the shoulder?
Now that I've gotten it to run reliably suppressed after ramping the bolt and such, it is very easy to bump from the shoulder- controlled to a certain extent.
That's weird. Only thing I can think of was no powder dispensed in the squib case or a contaminated primer that didn't ignite the charge properly. AA#5 ought to dispense easily, it's not like it's a bulky, flake powder that doesn't meter well.
I've used up a pound of AA#5 on 9mm and 45 so far. I used to use like .43cc on the rounds for the 92fs to get it to cycle but it was loud in the Colt. I JB welded a 1.06cc disk shut and redrilled the hole. It was way too small so I took a small unibit step drill bit and hand reamed the hole little by little to get up to 3.6.
The nice thing is, even with the small hole, the top is wider than the bottom so the powder fills that small hole better and funnels through more easily.
I always try to remember to shake the powder feeder well after I turn it back "on" (lee) so I always get a full load.
I don't know what happened. I'm just lucky it didn't blind me.
I shouldn't be surprised it didn't ruin the receiver- after all- look at the casing. It looks like the brass literally liquified and then quickly cooled forming that weird texture.
I am very thankful the barrel didn't bulge at all. Thankfully this is blowback and any resistance is quickly overcome and all the energy is blown out of the ejection port- the bullet never even tried to make it into the barrel.
I use a Lee measure and I always visually confirm the charge bar slides all the way over the drop chute. If you short stroke the handle, the bar won't slide far enough over and you'll get a short fill. If you don't have the swivel adaptor, get one. It allows you to position the measure so you can watch the whole process very easily.
I'm also wondering about your funnel-shaped charge cavity. Ball powder typically doesn't bridge, but if it's a significant enough taper, that's maybe what's going on. Do you have all the disks? I would think with the supplied disks you ought to be able to get very close to 3.6 grains without too much difficulty.
Glad your not dead or missing something!
C4
Glad your not dead or missing something!
C4
so was i! it would have shortened our range trip a bit :D
i was sitting right next to him at the bench rest when it went. i heard a word of surprise, and asked if it'd jammed (some low power rounds earlier at the 25yd range weren't fully cycling)... obviously this was a different situation. once i saw the case, i was very thankful there were no injuries!
I've used up a pound of AA#5 on 9mm and 45 so far. I used to use like .43cc on the rounds for the 92fs to get it to cycle but it was loud in the Colt. I JB welded a 1.06cc disk shut and redrilled the hole. It was way too small so I took a small unibit step drill bit and hand reamed the hole little by little to get up to 3.6.
The nice thing is, even with the small hole, the top is wider than the bottom so the powder fills that small hole better and funnels through more easily.
After rereading this, are you trying to load 3.6 grains of powder or are you trying to create a cavity that yields .36cc's of volume?
If 3.6 grains, then change your strategy. AA's starting load is 4.8 grains of powder, so if you are loading 3.6 grains, that's way too light. Load the 4.8 and don't worry about the noise. Also, Lee's data lists their smallest cavity, the .30cc cavity, yielding somewhere around 4.8 grains. In my experience their data is pretty conservative so I wouldn't be surprised if it yields a bit less, but given you are using a tapered chamber with perhaps a charge weight less than what they list for the smallest cavity, i could see where you might be getting bridging and less than full charge weights.
Thanks Grant (there I go "tugging your nuts again as xkaper would say)
Yes, the smallest disk is .30cc. I am trying to load 3.6grains. I found that .30cc yields about 4.8. Much more than I wanted.
I suppose I've had my fun and now loads should be at the 3.0cc.
I've got another 200 rounds maybe of the light loads.
Those are spooky quiet. We were hearing the 9mm rounds whizz down range and whacking the berm. It was outrageous. The only noise on our end was the loud clacking of the bolt.
I had to resort to these low loads to get the suppressor quiet and the rounds to stay subsonic out of this barrel.
The last 7 boxes of WWB 147 grain I got were very loud out of the 92fs at an indoor range. They may not have been true subsonics and I know they were cracking.
I'm also thinking the suppressor is out of whack a little. I may contact Doug at SRT to check into it. It's throwing the rounds VERY high out of the A1. Maybe 2' high at 25yards with the front post up flush with the top of the base inside of the ears.
Glad you're ok man.
I've turned into one hell of a eye protection nazi because of similar stuff that's happened with me.
Stop reloading 9MM ya cheap Bastard and buy factory......
lesson learned.....
hey i'm not loading because it's all that cheap- if i spent the time it takes to reload behind my computer at work drawing contours on property, i'd make more than enough on OT to buy factory SS as opposed to what I load.
Point is I read it was fun and calming to do. It's also nice when you need ammo for a shoot the next day and you can just go into the garage and load it up.
Also, i wasn't having as good of luck with factory 147 grain as I was hoping for.
I hear ya... Glad you still got your Eye balls Mission capable...;)
TheDutchman
06-11-07, 07:14
Dutch's #1 AR-15 rule is not to shoot reloads through my guns. Factory only.
I've had plenty of crappy factory ammo. reloads, when done right, are better than factory, because you control the quality.
You may want to wear more than sunglasses when you shoot.
I see rookies do that a lot, shoot with sunglasses or none at all.
How long have you been shooting?
The Oakley SI line offers ballistic lenses in their sunglasses. I wear a pair of XX 20's when it's sunny. They are of a "wrap around" design and probably protect my eyes a lot better than most Walmart brand safety glasses.
SuicideHz, I'm glad to hear you're okay.
Stephen
The Oakley SI line offers ballistic lenses in their sunglasses. I wear a pair of XX 20's when it's sunny. They are of a "wrap around" design and probably protect my eyes a lot better than most Walmart brand safety glasses.
SuicideHz, I'm glad to hear you're okay.
Stephen
+1
I know several guys who eyes have been saved by Oakley sunglasses in Iraq and Afghan...
Its all I wear when I work, and civilian shoot (you can take that two ways :D )
AR15barrels
06-11-07, 10:12
Stop reloading 9MM ya cheap Bastard and buy factory......
lesson learned.....
I shoot a LOT of 9mm every year.
When you consider it cost me $3 a box to shoot my reloads, the savings is considerable.
With a Dillon press running a powder check die, it's almost impossible to load a squib.
As for the OP, look closely down the bore for rings like this:
http://ar15barrels.com/tech/bulged9mm.jpg
ETA: That barrel was not mine, it was sent by a customer.
I have not had a squib in over 5 years (knock on wood).
Heavy Metal
06-11-07, 14:17
+1
I know several guys who eyes have been saved by Oakley sunglasses in Iraq and Afghan...
Its all I wear when I work, and civilian shoot (you can take that two ways :D )
Eyepro is such a good idea, it makes you wonder why the .mil didn't think of it sooner!
Heavy Metal
06-11-07, 17:56
Put a TIGHT PATCH on a jag and see if it finds a loose zone where the bullets were stuck.
No, no rings as in shiny/dark/shiny again.
Bore is perfectly shiny chrome lined.
Nope, no loose spots.
Like I said, the outside measures like I listed above.
The other rounds I have loaded will not be used much and when they are used, they won't be bumped.
Yeah, I saw the "never use reloads" response while at the office today and wanted to comment now when I got home but see that's been done.
More people have KB's from factory ammo I think than they do with their OWN reloads.
Sure, you can get cheap reloads from some hillbilly that probably KB a lot in other people's guns but that's because he doesn't give a crap.
Well, I'll start loading again and use the minimum that lee suggests.
For spooky quiet maybe I'll start on that suppressed Nagant revolver...
Rock-N-Ruin
06-11-07, 18:07
I have been reloading for over 15 years, and like said above with the proper equipment (dillon 550 w/powder check die, etc.) I havn't had a squib in many years either..You can get considerably better ammo by reloading vs. store bought ammo, IMO and when it costs under $4.00 per box/50, for 9mm and around $5.00 a box for .45 the savings is worth it. but if your afraid of reloads, please buy factory ammo.. I have been alot more saftey oriented since seeing all the KB's lately on Glock Talk and some other sites.. I do not shoot on public ranges either to limit the possibility of accidents.. Glad your allright and no one got hurt.. I see alot of people on these forums bashing the use of reloads, .. I think it's kind of insulting to those of us who have been reloading safely for years.. if your careful and minimize your distractions at the bench you can reproduce the quality of the best factory ammo or better, you can tailor your loads to reduce your recoil etc... It is possible to get a bad factory round, not very common but it can happen. Please be careful, everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!:D
If Lee made a 4 hole progressive I'd probably go a lot slower and pay more attention to each and every round.
With the turret press you sort of get into a rhythm and that's probably where the problem occurred.
AR15barrels
06-12-07, 10:34
If Lee made a 4 hole progressive I'd probably go a lot slower and pay more attention to each and every round.
With the turret press you sort of get into a rhythm and that's probably where the problem occurred.
Get a progressive press like a Dillon 650 that has a powder checker and does not allow you to turn the press backwards.
That pretty much ensures that every round has powder unless you don't put a battery in the powder checker...
Thanks Grant (there I go "tugging your nuts again as xkaper would say)
:rolleyes:
CarlosDJackal
06-13-07, 21:52
I'm glad to hear that the damage was mininal (to you and your gun). Am I correct in assuming that you were shooting reloads?
Thanks! Yes, reloaded myself :(
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