View Full Version : looking for a polymer carry pistol, G36/XDM .45C
first post!
so i have been considering getting a non 1911 pistol for a while now just to have, but i havent been able to find something that i like. but recently i have taken a liking to the glock 36 and springfield XDM .45. im weighing the pros and cons of each as a carry piece, and wanted your opinions. note: if i were to get the XDM, it would be the compact when it comes out in .45. and if i got the glock, i would get an extended slide release (where can they be found?)
i so far love the feel of the XDM and the glock, but i noticed that whenever i draw the glock, my sight allignment is way off and my front sight is high. i have to force myself to aim lower. i think this is because the grip on the 1911 that i am used to is a bit steeper, and the glock 36 has a largely curved backstrap. i do not have this problem with the XDM.
opinions, pictures and suggestions would be nice.
thanks!
-Joe
Littlelebowski
07-12-10, 20:34
S&W M&P .45
You can use the backstraps to make it fit your hand. Rock solid reliable. Great weapon. Expect more recommendations like this one.
from my experiences, i dont like the M&P. i am open to try it again, but i dont see myself getting one.
-Joe
Glock or M&P, also HK.
XD variants are not on the list for any serious purpose. See the other threads on XDs for why.
Army Chief
07-12-10, 21:08
I guess you can tell that I'm not really a Glock guy: I saw the thread header and clicked in to see if perhaps someone had managed to make a pistol variant of the standard German Bundeswehr (HK) service rifle. I guess that still wouldn't have qualified as a carry pistol, but I digress ... ;)
AC
I went thru a number of 45's, over the past few years, including some high end 1911's. The polymer pistols were the HK45, HK45 compact, Glock 21 and XD45. The HK45 fullsize was the most controllable and the most accurate of the polymer pistols. It blew the G21 and XD away. No comparison.
I would avoid a G36. The G30s are a far better choice.
I've heard that the G36 has reliability issues but I have no hands on experience with that gun.
I would suggest the M&P 45 or 45c, particularly the compact. What didn't you like about the M&P's?
I've also shot a HK45 and while I haven't put a lot of rounds through one, I liked what I saw. I do think the fullsize is a bit large for carry, maybe the compact would be better?
If you're not set on getting a duty style gun only, perhaps take a look at a Kahr .45
thopkins22
07-13-10, 00:46
Are you absolutely, 100%, no way in hell you'll use something else, dead set on a .45acp?
Personally I think you should go read DocGKR's stickies in the Terminal Ballistics Information forum here, reevaluate your choice of caliber, and then pick a handgun that's best suited to that particular caliber.
Helpful hint...modern ammunition has rendered most of the differences in calibers moot, but the shootability/affordability/size(capacity) of the smaller calibers remains the same.
Take a look at the FNP-45 too.
Concealed carry in .45 ACP? That is simple--M&P45 midsize or HK45c. Of course a G19 would also be a GREAT choice...
thanks for the replies guys.
from what i remember, i didnt like the feel of the M&P; it just didnt feel comfortable to me. it was a while ago, so i think that its probably time i try again. but i dont have high hopes.
the HK .45 is not for me. my friend has one and it is nowhere near my style. i dont like the sights, hate the controls, the grip is big and bulky, and the weapon itself just doesnt feel right. definately a nogo.
i tried to like the FNP .45, and i definately didnt. the controls were wierd, small, and hard to access, as well as the slide.
and i have never liked any glock that ive held (including the G21) because of comfort and control issues except for the G36; but as of now, i still like the XDM .45 more. does anyone know when SFA may release the compact .45?
the prolem with many of these pistols is that they are full size, and i am looking for a compact carry piece as an alternative to my fullsize
1911 for those rare times i choose to carry something else; i just like the thinness of the 1911.
as far as caliber, yes im settled on .45. no changes there at all. ever.
-Joe
Masakari;
Sounds like you've already made your mind up..Seriously I'd give a midsize or compact M&P another look, either one with a Apex Dcaek kit installed would make a excellant CCW that would be hard to beat.. I used to own a XD..I'm sorry, but it had too many little quirks/gimmicks that I did'nt like.Add the fact it would'nt feed LSWC's (I reload) and these are a very common bullets in use in .45 acp's, and mediocre accuracy, It did'nt work for me.. By all means try before you buy..Do a little research, Do a search on XD's on this forum, and sit down and read..you may rethink the XDm after reading up a little..
Masakari;
Sounds like you've already made your mind up..Seriously I'd give a midsize or compact M&P another look, either one with a Apex Dcaek kit installed would make a excellant CCW that would be hard to beat.. I used to own a XD..I'm sorry, but it had too many little quirks/gimmicks that I did'nt like.Add the fact it would'nt feed LSWC's (I reload) and these are a very common bullets in use in .45 acp's, and mediocre accuracy, It did'nt work for me.. By all means try before you buy..Do a little research, Do a search on XD's on this forum, and sit down and read..you may rethink the XDm after reading up a little..
I would have to agree with Ralph and others who have posted on this subject many times in the past. If you check most serious firearms forums you will see the XD in any form is not thought very highly of.
yeah, its just that i really do like the XDM alot. but i will surely look into those statistics, and try all weapons for myself before i buy them.
so right now, the 3 possibilities are XDM .45 compact, G36, and S&W M&P, pending a trial of all three.
-Joe
chavez_e_chavez
07-13-10, 16:17
i carry a xd.40 and love it... double stacked a tad big but whos counting
yeah, its just that i really do like the XDM alot. but i will surely look into those statistics, and try all weapons for myself before i buy them.
so right now, the 3 possibilities are XDM .45 compact, G36, and S&W M&P, pending a trial of all three.
-Joe
There is no XDM45c, and even if there was, Springfield's MO so far for making "compact" XDMs is to leave the grip length the same (i.e. long) and chop .7" off the barrel.
Personally, from reading your posts I think you might be placing an arbitrarily high importance on "comfort".
DocGKR's post is the answer to this thread, IMO.
first post!
so i have been considering getting a non 1911 pistol for a while now just to have, but i havent been able to find something that i like. but recently i have taken a liking to the glock 36 and springfield XDM .45. im weighing the pros and cons of each as a carry piece, and wanted your opinions. note: if i were to get the XDM, it would be the compact when it comes out in .45. and if i got the glock, i would get an extended slide release (where can they be found?)
i so far love the feel of the XDM and the glock, but i noticed that whenever i draw the glock, my sight allignment is way off and my front sight is high. i have to force myself to aim lower. i think this is because the grip on the 1911 that i am used to is a bit steeper, and the glock 36 has a largely curved backstrap. i do not have this problem with the XDM.
opinions, pictures and suggestions would be nice.
thanks!
-Joe
Oh wow, you picked two of the worst 45's out there. Look at the M&P (best 45 on the market IMHO) and the HK45.
The M&P mid-frame 45 is just about as an ideal CCW 45 out there.
C4
JacksonDavion
07-13-10, 17:50
Something to consider when looking at the M&P 45 is that how if "felt" to hold the gun really means nothing without shooting it. I used to think that Glocks "felt" horrible and I didn't like them. After actually putting several hundred rounds through one I came to learn that they grip and shoot quite well, despite still "feeling" horrible to my hands.
Also, having owned an XD .40 at one time in my life and an M&P 45, I can tell you that the M&P is far and away a better gun. I don't own either anymore since I switched to 9mm as a standard round, but I still miss the M&P 45. That said, you might want to read up on what Doc said above about the G19.
so i have been considering getting a non 1911 pistol for a while now
Welcome.
You've made the first step towards getting over the romance of the 1911. Soon, you'll be addicted to reliable pistols. :cool:
I don't know anything about the XD other than I wouldn't even consider one given the other opinions today. The G36 is a dog and probably the most troublesome Glock they make. The G30SF would be an opinion that I'd seriously consider.
If you want to stick to striker fired pistols take a hard look at the M&P45c or M&P45 (mid-size). Those are excellent 45s and the mid-size M&P45 is high up on my must buy list and could become a serious contender as my primary CCW eventually.
If you don't care about it being striker fired then look at the HK45c. There's really nothing to say about these because they are overbuilt and stone reliable. They are probably one of the most accurate handguns I've ever fired.
You can train yourself out of drawing with the sight high. It's not that hard. But I would get a G30 instead of a G36 for greater reliability and more rounds don't hurt either. The M&P .45 grip is too short for me and may be for you too. The G30SF grip is actually too small for me but I'm probably in the minority there.
But you should really just get a Glock 19. ;)
Looks like M4arc and i posted at the same time and I have to agree with his recommendation of getting the mid-size M&P. If you are really stuck on .45 it's excellent and gives you a full grip on the pistol. Easy to conceal, works great for gun games, home protection, its really a do it all .45.
SeriousStudent
07-13-10, 21:15
I owned a G36, and sold it. It was one of the rare ones that was reliable. No issues with over 900 rounds through it. That's very rare. It's the only Glock I would never buy new, but would only buy from a trusted source, after a trial range session.
I really did like it, but did the math. Virtually the same size as the G-19 I already owned. Plus it cost half as much to practice with. Plus it's harder to find holsters for it, etc.
I got more out of it than I put into it, so I was way ahead.
If I was starting over from scratch, I'd get the M&P in 9mm. But I already have a metric butt-load of money invested in the Glock 9mm platform, so I sold all my .45 pistols but one.
jstephens202
07-14-10, 11:57
I have a Glock 36 that has been "Glock Perfection" in the 10 years and probably thousands of rounds I've had thru it. I must be one of the lucky owners as I have read on the 'net how much trouble others are having. Seems like you either get a good one or you don't.
When not carrying one of my Springfield 1911's, my G36 is my go to gun. Hot weather, deep concealment, or anytime the situation calls for a fanny pack(yes, I use one and yes my friends give me a hard time- right up until that Glock in it may be needed!).
Try all the guns you can and pick what works/feels best for you!
I've had a bunch of 1911's over the years and a couple of G30's. I carried a G30 for two years. It was fine,no problems,easy shooter. I keep gravitating back to my G19's. I do like compact guns and if I ever decide to "carry" a .45 again I think I'd roll with an M&P compact for my own use.
S&W M&P .45
You can use the backstraps to make it fit your hand. Rock solid reliable. Great weapon. Expect more recommendations like this one.
+1 He said pretty much all that needed to be.
Brother.. not being a a$$ but it sounds like you have your mind made up. If you really want the XD then get it. with the addition of the poster above that is 2 G36s that i know have ran. I had one and hated it never would run 100%. My partner at work carried one for a back up but it wouldnt run.
I am a Glock guy and really like my G21. Not a huge fan at all of the Xd lines
and before you dismiss HK make sure you try the new ones. I hated the USP 45's but im LUSTING over a HK45 with the Light LEM in it..
good luck and let us know what you get
Ga Shooter
07-16-10, 10:45
I have a perfectly running G36 with Heinie Straight 8 sighs and Raven holsters. That said I will be selling it in the next few weeks because I am switching to a 9mm platform due to the cost of ammo and training. I have never had any problem with mine and it is a dream to carry but expensive to feed.
The G36 is an easy carry .45 but it is limited by 6 round magazines. Unlike other Glocks, you can't use a high cap as a spare either, since the G36 mag is single stack.
That being said, I carry one and have had none of the issues so widely reported on the Internet. Or should I say the issues widely "parroted" on the Internet since I don't believe the majority are speaking from experience with the gun?
You should listen to those speaking from actual experience, and no doubt some of that has been bad. Mine has been good. I have a Kimber Warrior that I would never recommend for carry or HD, even if Pat Rogers thinks very highly of it. Others may love it, but my experience has not been good.
I am going to buy an extra mag holder so I can carry two spares for a 19 round total for the G36. I have complete confidence in my G36, but someone should come along shortly to dispute that.
The G36 is an easy carry .45 but it is limited by 6 round magazines. Unlike other Glocks, you can't use a high cap as a spare either, since the G36 mag is single stack.
That being said, I carry one and have had none of the issues so widely reported on the Internet. Or should I say the issues widely "parroted" on the Internet since I don't believe the majority are speaking from experience with the gun?
You should listen to those speaking from actual experience, and no doubt some of that has been bad. Mine has been good. I have a Kimber Warrior that I would never recommend for carry or HD, even if Pat Rogers thinks very highly of it. Others may love it, but my experience has not been good.
I am going to buy an extra mag holder so I can carry two spares for a 19 round total for the G36. I have complete confidence in my G36, but someone should come along shortly to dispute that.
I have never owned a G36 so when I want to know about a gun that I don't own, I go to a trusted instructor(s) that sees a lot of guns in classes and find out what is working and what isn't.
I am sure that your G36 runs. The thing is though, that you have a statistical sampling of one. Then I often wonder if people that have a certain brand gun that runs, if they REGULARY attend training with it? How many rounds a year are fired through it, etc, etc.
Every gun runs sitting in the safe or in a holster. I could go and get a hi-point pistol, shoot it 100rds a year and claim it is the best pistol ever.
As far as an instructor liking one type of gun or another, you must ask the following questions;
1. Do they receive the guns they "like" for free?
2. Do they get paid to shoot the guns they like?
3. Are they "gun guys?" Meaning do they know anything how guns are built and what goes into making a quality one.
4. How many students do they supervise a year in training? Do they keep a running record which guns run and which ones don't?
5. When they see a malfunction, are they knowledgeable enough to firgure out what is causing the problem?
C4
Fuzzy-Reticle
07-16-10, 14:10
For a Poly pistol the Hk is really tough to beat and as mentioned the M&P .45 is also a great pistol.
If your not stuck on poly I would consider either the SIG 220 compact or a 1911 Officers from any of the better brand names.
I love my Glocks but don't own any in .45 as I always thought they felt clumsy and fat in the ass.
The Glock 19 is pretty much perfection in my world. I wouldn't consider ever leaving the house without it.
Just my two cents.
well guys, thanks for all of the advice. i went out and groped all of the pistols in question, and i have honed in on my decision even more.
firstly, i found out that i have never held the M&P before; it was a sigma. so yeah, the M&P is awesome.
i also decided that i like the Glock 30 alot more than the Glock 36.
and as a note, im not looking for any double action hammered pistols, so weapons like the HK .45 are out for sure. im only interested in polymer striker fired pistols.
right now, here is what im looking at, in order:
-Springfield XDM .45 compact (when it comes out)
-Smith and Wesson M&P .45 mid size with magazine safety, no thumb safety
-Springfield XD .45 compact
-Glock G30 .45
each one has its own pros and cons, and im weighing them now. the XDM still tops the list though. if the M&P had those extra 2 rounds (8 vice 10) that would be nice. i like the XD's extended slide release and ambi mag release, and the M&Ps ambi slide release. the G30 is the smallest. the grips on the XDM and M&P are modular, the XD is comfortable, and the G30 has too much of a palm swell.
right now its still looking like the XDM, but the M&P .45 midsize is close...
-Joe
RogerinTPA
07-20-10, 19:36
As others have stated, the mid size M&P45 with the 10 round cap is the ideal .45 if that's what caliber you are set on. I suggest finding a range that rents them and shoot a couple of boxes through it, and the HK. The XDs...fagettaboutit.
well, i hear alot on the internets, mostly from those without firsthand experience. so the people dissing the XD just dont do it for me. i would rather ask a friend who owns one (and i have)
but the HK is a nono. and i didnt know they made 10 round mags for the M&P. hmmm...
-Joe
Go buy the XD. Make yourself happy.
Let us know how it holds up for you.
i have a friend that's in the same situation...he wants the kimber pro carry 1911 but doesn't want to spend the coin...i told him get the hk 45 compact, but he doesn't want to spend the coin...just bought a $2K safe...told him he can get a mp 45 compact for $589, he doesn't want the glock either, his dad has one and he used it for his ccw class...i told him he can spend less and hope and pray that cheap hi-point or whatever doesn't go click when you need it to go bang, or invest in something worth putting in the nice fatboy 64...
btw, i did check out the mp 45 compact today with the manual safety and i did like it...interchangeable palm swells and feel was nice...didn't like the breakdown though...i did like the way my xdm 40 broke down for cleaning, it was sold last weekend for a mp 15/22 though...
RogerinTPA
07-20-10, 19:55
well, i hear alot on the internets, mostly from those without firsthand experience. so the people dissing the XD just dont do it for me. i would rather ask a friend who owns one (and i have)
but the HK is a nono. and i didnt know they made 10 round mags for the M&P. hmmm...
-Joe
Not on this forum. Those who speak about them here...."have" first hand knowledge.
Here's a link to the M&P Middy we have spoken about with 4 inch barrel and 10 round cap: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/53541
masakari,
FYI--the standard magazine capacity for the M&P45 mid-size is TEN rounds; in fact the 8 rd mag made for the M&P45c will not fit into the M&P45 mid-size.
How much good TRAINING have you had?
Before spending a lot of money on a pistol you think "feels" good, I'd strongly suggest you use your resources to get more knowledge and experience. Magpul Dynamics, EAG, Trident Concepts, VTAC, CSAT, Vickers Tactical, Pistoltraining.com, ITTS, TigerSwan, etc... have all offered superb instruction––I can highly recommend any of them.
Once you have improved your abilities, then pick ONE reliable, durable pistol type and master it. For example, purchase two or three G19's (one for training, one for carry, one extra) and really learn to run it over tens of thousands of rounds and multiple years of use.
I carry a G36. I'm a retired LEO and served as a firearms instructor for my agency. Which is one of the largest in the country. I'm a Glock armorer and I know the trials and tribulations of the G-36. I bought mine in 2000 and to date I have fired 7,250 rounds through it (Give or take a hundred. Yes, I'm a geek and I keep track as best I can.) In that time I've had only one major issue with it. It does not feed Speer Gold Dot 230gr. hollow points well. I know others that have reported the same issue and others who report no problems at all with that ammo.
There was a recall about five years ago on the some G36 pistols to correct a potential safety issue with the trigger safety. Insofar as the problems go, the biggest issue I heard when working in the training unit was failure to feed. The G36 is a small gun. Especially when you consider the size of the projectile it fires. As such, it is more prone to "limp wristing" than the other Glock pistols. It's my unscientific opinion after training and qualifying thousands of police officers that a good many of them limp wrist their gun from time to time. A longer slide weapon like a G17, G22 or G21 is less prone to malfunction from this than the shorter guns and thus most shooters don't have a problem with these guns.
Further, we noticed that the subcompact G26 and G27 would malfunction at a higher rate than the larger guns. The G27 .40 S&W more so than the G26 9MM. The G36 malfunctioned more than the G27. Again, it's my unscientific opinion that the combination of a heavier bullet and a shorter action have the effect of making the gun more prone to malfunctioning when fired with incorrect technique.
I've not experienced many malfunctions with mine other than the Speer Gold Dot HP issue. I've had a few hiccups with Wolf .45 ACP, but I have the same issues in my 1911 with that ammo too. I can run UMC or Winchester Walmart though it all day long. I've done a few combat pistol courses with my G36 in which hundreds (As many as 1,000) rounds were fired with no cleaning done with nary an issue. I trust my G36.
I'm not saying there aren't lemons out there. Glock "Perfection" is a myth. It's a machine and it can fail. It's that simple. However, I think a good many of the problems being reported are the result of operator technique. I noticed dramatic improvements in the malfunction rate when one-on-one instruction was provided and the shooter's technique was honed. Even shooters with 20 years of experience sometimes drift from good technique. Myself included. The internet is a funny place. A few people start reporting issues. Then it becomes a panic. Next comes the tirades and what follows is the equivalent of an electronic lynch mob that wants Glock blood. Things tend to get overblown in a hurry.
My advice is rent or borrow the short list of guns that you've made and put 100 rounds through each of them. That's 100 good rounds. This gun will protect your life and the money spent is worth it. Make an informed decision. Good luck.
Edit: One more thing. Stay away from the +1 and +2 additional round magazine floor plates. I can't tell you how many issues were solved when those plates were removed. If you need a place to rest your pinky finger, get the floor plate that replaces the factory one, but does not alter the capacity.
oh, ok well the M&P i tried out in .45 had the 8 round mag, so i guess it was a compact. but the midsize would probably be better.
i dont like talking about my personal qualifications, but for the record im a Marine and do have combat pistol training. i know what im doing for the most part. im a 1911 guy and own a kimber TLE/RL and absolutely love it, no issues. but i just want the option of having a pistol like this if for no other reason than to just have one non-1911, because i know ill be buying more 1911s over the years.
you guys do provide great information, and i am putting it all into account of course.
-Joe
Congratulations on your service to our Nation.
There are very different levels of pistol training within the USMC--the shooting packages done out at Range 130 by SOTG are generally excellent, some of the other Marine Corps "combat pistol training" was not...
It is all about experience and perspective.
FWIW, after carrying 1911's for over 20 years, I personally will not use any 1911 with a Schwartz firing pin safety (like on the Kimber II pistols) as I have seen high numbers of them fail.
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