Vickers Tactical/Blackwater/Grey Group Home Defense AAR

[C4IGrant]

Just returned from a 3 day home defense class at Blackwater with LAV. This is my second time in the BW kill houses with LAV and was once again, an excellent learning experience (more on this later).

First, let's discuss getting trapped at Newport News Airport and people on planes. So I get to the airport 2hrs before my flight (2PM). I get checked in and all appears to be cool. A half hour before my flight leaves, they push it back for another 1.5hrs due to bad weather in Atlanta. Cool. Back to the bar for another adult beverage.

Board the plan. Am stuck sitting next to a lady that out weighs me. She is friendly though so I don't mind her fat rolling over into my seat. As we taxi away, the Capt. gets on and says that we are going to HOLD there for 1hr. So now I am trapped in a small seat next to a large woman. Cool.

An hour passes and they decide that they cannot fly to Atlanta so back to the Airport we go. We get off the plane and spend 45 minutes waiting for word to leave. Back to the bar I go.

Get word to board. Get on the plan and for some reason get a new person sitting next to me. This time a thinner male. Cool. Finally some breathing room. As I am sitting there he decides that the arm rest that is between us (neutral territory in my book) is HIS + part of my seat. So I tried the friendly run into his arm with my arm to see if he gets the hint that he is in my space. No luck. For the next 1.5hrs he is in his seat and my seat. Not cool.

We make it into Atlanta (thank GOD) at 10:45. My connection flight is at 10:50 all the way across the airport. GREAT! So I run all the way to the next gate (make it) and am the last person on the plane. Of course someone is sitting in my assigned seat. Cool. I just move onto the next one. This was my mistake. I should have asked for my seat and made the person in it move. The only open seat is next to a woman that out weighs me. In fact she is so big that she cannot put the arm rest down between us. Not cool. She is however friendly and we talk a little. As we are flying the 1.5hrs to Ohio we run into some turbulence. I look over and notice that she is now looking out the window (looked forward the entire time before that). She begins to grab a hold of anything she can (like she is going to fall out of the plane). I ask her if she is afraid of flying. She says no, but does have agoraphobia (fear of open spaces). So when she looked out the window onto the ground below, she flipped out. My thought once she told me that was; "Well don't look out the FREAKING WINDOW then!"

I finally got home at 2AM after starting out at 2PM. :mad:

Did I mention that I don't like to fly???

Break Break

The class was full of quality guys that had been through Vickers classes in the past so their fundamentals and accuracy were sound. Many though had little to no CQB type experience. Not a single "that guy" in the class and was a lot of fun shooting with them.

Things to remember when clearing rooms:

1. Night sights are a good idea when trying to shoot bad people in the dark.
2. Always go to your known.
3. Don't stand in the hallway.
4. Don't stand in the doorway.
5. Know when to move fast and move slow.
6. Communicate with your partner.
7. Manage your ammo and keep your weapon loaded.
8. Shoot controlled pairs (Not double taps).
9. Watch your six.
10. Once you own something (hallway) keep it.
11. If you shoot a bad guy in another room, quickly get into that room.
12. Finger straight is the most important thing. Mechanical safeties not so much.
13. Don't let the threat suck you in.
14. Clear your corners!
15. Stairs suck!
16. Watch out for midgets in hallways.


Common sayings/words heard from LAV:

1. HO-LY SHIT!
2. WTF WAS THAT?
3. WTF ARE YOU DOING?
4. ARE THOSE FIBER OPTIC SIGHTS ON YOUR GUN? WTF?
5. ARE THOSE ADJUSTABLE REAR SIGHTS ON YOUR GLOCK? WTF?
6. THEY CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES AS THEY ARE SHOOTING STI 2011's.
7. WHY DON'T YOU GO AND SEE IF YOU CAN PET THE MOMMA BEAR.
8. YOUR AN ASSTOOL!
9. THIS IS NOT A 3 GUN MATCH.

Common sayings/words heard from the students:

1. No I don't know why I did that.
2. No I don't know what I was thinking.
3. What is my known?
4. That's a COP! Don't shoot it! BANG BANG BANG. What did you say?
5. Move back. "That's a NO SHOOT!" BANG BANG BANG. What did you say?
6. Your going which direction?


Below are pics from TD1. Warm ups, moving shooting, barricade work, etc.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Class.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Class1.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1a.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1b.jpg

LAV SHOWING US HOW IT IS DONE.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/LAV_Barricade.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/LAV_Barricade1.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/LAV_Barricade2.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/LAV_Barricade3.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1c.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1d.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1e.jpg

[C4IGrant]

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Targets.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1f.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1g.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1h.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1i.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1j.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1k.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1l.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1m.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1n.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1o.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1p.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1q.jpg

[C4IGrant]

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2a.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2b.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2c.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2d.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2e.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2f.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2g.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2h.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2i.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2j.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2k.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2l.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2m.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2n.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2o.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2p.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day2q.jpg


C4

[C4IGrant]

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2a.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2b.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2c.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2d.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2e.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2f.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2g.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2h.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2i.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2l.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2m.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2n.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2o.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2p.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2q.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2r.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2s.jpg




C4

[SHIVAN]

Those targets look very good, must have been some good shooters in the class.

[C4IGrant]

Those targets look very good, must have been some good shooters in the class.

Yes. Most of the rounds that were thrown out were less than an inch (typically) and seldom happened.



C4

[Jay Cunningham]

Wish I could have been there; hope LAV does this class again so I can attend at a future date.

[KevinB]

Wish I could have been there; hope LAV does this class again so I can attend at a future date.


Ditto

[C4IGrant]

Wish I could have been there; hope LAV does this class again so I can attend at a future date.

I think he will as it went REALLY WELL.



C4

[chuckman]

I enjoy LAV's instruction. When he once called me "one of Jerry's kids," I didn't know whether to be ashamed or amused (I was both). Sounds like a great course.

[Mr. Smith]

We had a great time and learned a lot in the process.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Larry%20Vickers%20home%20defince/th_P7080899.jpg (http://s807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Larry%20Vickers%20home%20defince/?action=view&current=P7080899.mp4)

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Larry%20Vickers%20home%20defince/100_2185.jpg

The gear from glass was some of the finest.

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Larry%20Vickers%20home%20defince/P7080905.jpg

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Larry%20Vickers%20home%20defince/100_2224.jpg

Look at all the blue force gear slings belts ready mods and chest rigs.

Nice to put a face to some of the names on the forum.

[C4IGrant]

New pics are up!

It wouldn't be a Blackwater class without a Black Bear sighting. This female was about 300-400yds from us with her cubs.


C4



http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/BlackBear.jpg

[M4Guru]

1. HO-LY SHIT!
2. WTF WAS THAT?
3. WTF ARE YOU DOING?
4. ARE THOSE FIBER OPTIC SIGHTS ON YOUR GUN? WTF?
5. ARE THOSE ADJUSTABLE REAR SIGHTS ON YOUR GLOCK? WTF?
6. THEY CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES AS THEY ARE SHOOTING STI 2011's.
7. WHY DON'T YOU GO AND SEE IF YOU CAN PET THE MOMMA BEAR.
8. YOUR AN ASSTOOL!
9. THIS IS NOT A 3 GUN MATCH.

4, 5, 7, and 8 were mine. I may have gotten 1, 2, 3, and 9 at some point as well but I think we all heard those.


We had a great time, everyone was a pleasure to be around. The AAR does not cover the conversations at dinner (and never will...), but those alone were worth the price of admission. I wish we could do this every weekend.

[C4IGrant]

4, 5, 7, and 8 were mine.


We had a great time, everyone was a pleasure to be around. The AAR does not cover the conversations at dinner (and never will...), but those alone were worth the price of admission. I wish we could do this every weekend.

The dinners are always the best. The info that gets passed there is always entertaining.

Good to shoot with you again.


C4

[snappy]

Was hoping to see an AAR for this class. The vid above really shows LV's teaching skills. Thanks for the great pics too. ;)

[chavez_e_chavez]

looked awesome!!! thanks for sharing!!!

[subzero]

I really wish I could have gone to this. If it's held again, I will definitely be there.

[Business_Casual]

4. That's a COP! Don't shoot it! BANG BANG BANG. What did you say?
5. Move back. "That's a NO SHOOT!" BANG BANG BANG. What did you say?

Team Lawyer Up was awesome!

B_C

[Vinh]

The video makes me want to :suicide2: myself for missing this.

[subzero]

Agreed, Vinh.



http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/LAV_Barricade3.jpg

Whoa. Did Larry stick a lightweight barrel into his DD M4? He wasn't kidding earlier this year when he said lightweight stuff is the way to go.

Great pics Grant. Reminds me that I need some body armor like now.

[John_Wayne777]

Sounds like another phenomenal Vickers class. Sorry I couldn't be at this one.

[SeriousStudent]

Single Man Clear Vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyCtnMFB_xs




C4

Lots and lots of lessons in that video. I forwarded the link to several friends, it's a good thing to study.

Thanks for posting the link, Grant.

That class must have been an absolute blast.

[C4IGrant]

Great pics Grant. Reminds me that I need some body armor like now.

Thanks. I would run through the house with my two partners then grab the camera(s) and run through with everyone else.


C4

[C4IGrant]

Was hoping to see an AAR for this class. The vid above really shows LV's teaching skills. Thanks for the great pics too. ;)

Very few folks have LAV's background/resume. So to be able to get into one of these RARE classes is not something to be missed.



C4

[C4IGrant]

Lots and lots of lessons in that video. I forwarded the link to several friends, it's a good thing to study.

Thanks for posting the link, Grant.

That class must have been an absolute blast.


If you think those two vids are good, just wait! We have first person shooter vids coming (helmet cam type stuff), more first person clears and the ever entertaining two man clears! :dance3:




C4

[Jay Cunningham]

Did you manage to get any images from the catwalk down any long hallways?? Always illuminating!

:laugh:

[SeriousStudent]

If you think those two vids are good, just wait! We have first person shooter vids coming (helmet cam type stuff), more first person clears and the ever entertaining two man clears! :dance3:




C4

I will stay tuned to this station then. ;)

[m4fun]

Looks awesome! Good lead for this upcoming class there.

[C4IGrant]

Did you manage to get any images from the catwalk down any long hallways?? Always illuminating!

:laugh:

Sure did. Got pics and vids.


C4

[C4IGrant]

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD3.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD3a.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD3b.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD3c.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD3d.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD3e.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD3f.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD3g.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD3h.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD3i.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD3j.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD3k.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD3l.jpg

[C4IGrant]

So it was TD3 and I was loading mags when I happened to look up at the wall. The majority of the students had propped their AR's against it. Thought it was a cool pic so I snapped a quick one.

Here it is:
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Guns_Used.jpg

Notice the the following:

1. A lot of Suppressed SBR's.
2. Magpul CTR/MOE and LMT SOPMOD's stocks were the most common.
3. Aimpoint Micro's were the majority of optics used.
4. EVERYONE was running a BFG Vickers Tactical 2 point sling.
4. A lot of fixed sights (front and rear) were being used.
5. SF X300's are the dominant lighting option.

The folks in this class came from all walks of life (active duty Mil, Civy's, industry professionals, dealers, etc), but they all came to the same conclusions about gear. This is what is commonly referred to as a clue.

After taking the above pic, I realized that EVERY GUN had a BFG Vickers sling on it. So we decided to do a better pic showcasing the slings and give the good folks at BFG a little love. A couple BFG rigs and belts were also dropped in for good measure.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Guns_Used_Prof.jpg



C4

[SHIVAN]

Is that a suppressed 9mm AR?

[C4IGrant]

Is that a suppressed 9mm AR?

Yep, there was one in the class.


C4

[TacticalIntervention]

Larry, is one of if not my favorite guys in industry. I did the tactical SWAT/Contractor thing several decades and Larry is one of the very few instructors I would still pay to train with. He is that good.

Plus he is almost as ugly as me!

[Titleist]

I wish we could do this every weekend.

...and this was the class I had a spot in but had to drop out of, right?

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[Mr. Smith]

Video from class.

LAV is the best in this environment he really shines.

We have more pics and video as we get uncovered we will get them up.


http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Larry%20Vickers%20home%20defince/th_P7090916.jpg (http://s807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Larry%20Vickers%20home%20defince/?action=view&current=P7090916.mp4)

[BWW]

Grant, Just curious - did you run the m@p/rmr in this class. If so - how did it go. Also, how's the led version working out? - Thanks Brad

[C4IGrant]

Grant, Just curious - did you run the m@p/rmr in this class. If so - how did it go. Also, how's the led version working out? - Thanks Brad

I did run it and it ran well (even suppressed). It was a hit with the folks at the class as well.


C4

[BWW]

C4, I don't want to hi-jack a thread involving Mr. Vickers and y'alls class. Maybe sometime in the future you could update the other m@p/rmr thread. Lots of us with "aging" eyes paying attention. Also, what was LAV's take on this. Thanks again Brad

[SKULL1]

awesome pix and video grant.. someday.. i will be able to attend one of LAV's class..:ph34r:

[M4Guru]

C4, I don't want to hi-jack a thread involving Mr. Vickers and y'alls class. Maybe sometime in the future you could update the other m@p/rmr thread. Lots of us with "aging" eyes paying attention. Also, what was LAV's take on this. Thanks again Brad

We discussed the advantages of the red-dot on a pistol at length. I think everyone there agreed the slight chance of washing out in one very specific circumstance was worth the trade off for ruggedness and lack of electronics. I am going to use the dual illuminated RMR instead of the LED I ad planned on.

Larry liked it as well and is going to set up a Glock 17 the same way I believe

[Mr. Smith]

One man clear vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA4ADfM7PJk

[VA_Dinger]

No question this was one awesome class. LAV instructing, U.S. Training Center’s world class facilities, super nice weather, and a class full of highly motivated students. What more could you ask for? I had an awesome time to say the least.

[Mr. Smith]

Two man clear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mueg9VIT7Ws

[GunSlinger]

We discussed the advantages of the red-dot on a pistol at length. I think everyone there agreed the slight chance of washing out in one very specific circumstance was worth the trade off for ruggedness and lack of electronics. I am going to use the dual illuminated RMR instead of the LED I ad planned on.

Larry liked it as well and is going to set up a Glock 17 the same way I believe

I have an RMR 7moa on order and plan on milling a 4th gen 17 for testing.
Putting a red dot sight in a pistol in theory seems to be a no brainer knowing the benefits it gives on a carbine. The only hold back for me personally for not getting one in the past was the lack of faith I had in the previous products offered. Now that Trijicon is offering this new RMR with no batteries and quality as high as anything they have ever offered I can't resist. (esp. since Grant let me try his set up out)


This Class was Awesome yet humbling. I wish I had possessed some sort of material I could have educated myself on before doing any of the CQB clearing exercises. Even though I am as comfortable as can be on any range doing any drill I was as lost as a BHO at an NRA convention looking for Sarah Brady.

It was really enlightening to see the importance of holding on to the fundamentals when putting them into action. With the slight stress and heat some of the targets were nothing to brag about in the shoot houses.

I had a great time and hope I get a chance to do some more of this in the future.

[grkmec]

Where was this class posted? I had no idea it was happening! I would have loved to have gone.

[GunSlinger]

It was not posted. It was invite only.

[Reseremb]

Equipment question...

Is this the famous Blue Force Gear's Plate Carrier with integrated Ten-Speed pouches? If so, how was the experience? BFG products are great for saving weight, and mixing Ten-Speed with a plate carrier makes sense for a number of configurations.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1d.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1c.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/Day1n.jpg




Also, S&S Precision WeaponLink? Very interesting position for placing it, would be nice to see it working with a G36K.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/BW_CQB/TD2.jpg


Thanks to all the participants for the great AAR, pictures and videos... hope these kind of opportunities keep going.

[zushwa]

That guy in the pictures is like a Grey Group poster boy.....like he hangs out in the store almost everyday or something. :D

[Reseremb]

LOL, Roger, so a little T&E for you guys, uh? Nice excuse when going around the shop picking all the new stuff ;)

S&S WeaponLink and IFM, Arc'Terix "Baller Ass", BFG Plate Carrier... I'll keep my eyes open for when you post more information about how they performed.

Thanks!