View Full Version : PVS-14 helmet mount faves
've come to realize that I would like a little more adjustment in my PVS-14 helmet setup. Currently I'm running the USGI mount and J-arm, and I just can't get the adjustability I want out of it so I'm shopping around for something a little better. Currently my sights are set on a Notoros INVG, I like that when stowed it won't throw my PVS 3 feet above my head, and it seems like it's a little easier to fine tune the adjustments. I'm also considering the Wilcox L4 G24. I already have a VAS shroud and I like the low profile so whatever I choose has to work with it.
So, those things in mind, what is your favorite setup and why do you like it? I've already got a little information from Clasky on TOS but would like some more opinions from others using these systems as well.
Some swear by the wilcox mounts. But I found them to be just a little too overcomplicated and finnicky. I've been a big fan of the Norotos Titanium arms, in combination with the universal shroud.
I thought the VAS mount was just chinsy for what's being mounted on it.
Your first instinct is pretty good. Norotos works great.
've come to realize that I would like a little more adjustment in my PVS-14 helmet setup. Currently I'm running the USGI mount and J-arm, and I just can't get the adjustability I want out of it so I'm shopping around for something a little better. Currently my sights are set on a Notoros INVG, I like that when stowed it won't throw my PVS 3 feet above my head, and it seems like it's a little easier to fine tune the adjustments. I'm also considering the Wilcox L4 G24. I already have a VAS shroud and I like the low profile so whatever I choose has to work with it.
So, those things in mind, what is your favorite setup and why do you like it? I've already got a little information from Clasky on TOS but would like some more opinions from others using these systems as well.
The Norotos INVG is very good. I don't however like the release tab, as it is very small and nearly impossible to get at with gloves on. That being said the stow feature of the INVG for the PVS 14 is the best going.
The Wilcox G24 is a good choice as well. I use this one exclusively for mounting the NVD BNVDs. One other thing is the G24s angle seems to work the best on the Ops Core helmets as they have a steeper forward slope.
Some swear by the wilcox mounts. But I found them to be just a little too overcomplicated and finicky. I've been a big fan of the Norotos Titanium arms, in combination with the universal shroud.
I thought the VAS mount was just chinsy for what's being mounted on it.
The Wilcox are a complicated mount to be sure, What did you find finicky about them? My only wish is that I could somehow convert the Wilcox to a detent, force to overcome like the Norotos for the swing arm.
Interesting you found the VAS shroud chinsy, what do you feel is it's shortcoming? They are solid and I have never seen one break.
IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
The Wilcox are a complicated mount to be sure, What did you find finicky about them? My only wish is that I could somehow convert the Wilcox to a detent, force to overcome like the Norotos for the swing arm.
Interesting you found the VAS shroud chinsy, what do you feel is it's shortcoming? They are solid and I have never seen one break.
I found that while in the dark making any adjustments to the arms became an excercise in frustration. It was way too easy to accidentally hit the break away feature just trying to adjust the vertical travel. The Norotos', even the advanced ones, are very simple, and the controls seperated so you can't hit something accidentally.
As for the VAS, it just felt of less quality in comparison to the Norotos universal or 3/1-point systems. Generally when I shoot with NODS it's carrying them around all day, and then being able to clip them on with one hand. I found the wilcox's to be a two handed affair at best.
I found that while in the dark making any adjustments to the arms became an exercise in frustration. It was way too easy to accidentally hit the break away feature just trying to adjust the vertical travel. The Norotos', even the advanced ones, are very simple, and the controls separated so you can't hit something accidentally.
As for the VAS, it just felt of less quality in comparison to the Norotos universal or 3/1-point systems. Generally when I shoot with NODS it's carrying them around all day, and then being able to clip them on with one hand. I found the wilcox's to be a two handed affair at best.
When you say you hit the break away feature do you mean that you were accidentally switching the switch or do you mean you were actually knocking the mount from it's base?
As for ease of mounting either the Norotos is simple plug, push and it latches itself. With the Wilcox mount I can do it one handed, I take the mount in my right hand and with my thumb I actuate the lock once the mount is plugged into the base. Not quite as quick as the Norotos but not too bad either.
To the Op, what lack of adjustment are you finding with the USGI "Big Army" mount? Oh and what kind of helmet are you using this on?
With the INVG and the Dual Dovetail mount you will NOT have the same "swing in front of your eye" adjustments found on the current headset adapter AKA "the J Arm." Heck even the Wilcox Arm does not have the same adjustment range as the current J Arm.
If I were going to get an upgraded mount with just the PVS 14 in mind I would go with the INVG Just for the stow feature alone, as that is worth the price of admission RIGHT THERE.
IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
To the Op, what lack of adjustment are you finding with the USGI "Big Army" mount? Oh and what kind of helmet are you using this on?
IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
Specifically vertical adjustment. The USGI rhino mount only has the tilt and fore-aft movement and I've found that while I can make it work, I feel like my head is at a weird angle. I'm using the PT-Alpha helmet so I'm curious if that's the issue or I really just can't get the rhino mount to adjust where I need it. The big draw to the INVG mount was the ease of vertical movement, and the ease of stowage is a bonus. I like being able to flip up the USGI mount without finding a button and carrying that through to the INVG seems like it would be a nice feature to have.
I'm not hands-on familiar with either it or the Wilcox G24 so I'm taking a gamble here but it seems like the INVG would be just as easy if not easier to adjust, and because it uses a screw to change height that it would be less prone to needing readjustment than the Wilcox. I would be worried that banging the lever would throw it out of alignment easier than something twisting the screw. I'm assuming that it's the lever that changes height on the G24 and not the screw on the side. It seems like a fair assessment but having never used either I'm looking for input.
I'm undecided on the break away feature of the G24, and if having that outweighs any benefit the INVG has. Also, while it stows lower than the USGI mount, it appears that it still has a higher profile than the Notoros. I also realize that I will be losing some side-to-side swing adjustment by going with the Notoros dovetail over the Wilcox twisty but I guess that's just something I'd have to try to decide.
I'm also thinking I may need to upgrade to a different helmet instead like the Fast BUMP where the shroud is mounted more vertically. That may solve my problems with the rhino mount but being just as wallet destroying it's kind of a wash as to which avenue to approach first.
My vote is upgrade your base helmet first, then go for a nice INVG mount.
Well, I think it would be hard to comment any further than what Titleist and IPSC have already said. Between these two mounts, they pretty much have it nailed. But, for what it's worth, here is my anecdotal information.
I really like both INVG and G24 mounts. My personal use mount is the G24 in a VAS shroud. But, I wouldn't turn my nose up at the INVG. I really like the INVG's "push to overcome" mechanism because it allows you to use gross motion instead of fine motor skills. This is a good thing in the middle of a drama. But, it can also be a good thing in general because you don't have to search out a release button. However, it is a double edged sword in that it allows the system to inadvertently flip up if it is banged on something by accident. The G24 has a push button release lock. I haven't found this be a problem, but I train for it so I can use it by feel. I approach it the same way I retrieve magazines from a pouch. I place hand on what is known (in this case, the flip arm of the G24), and run my fingers straight back along the rail to the button. The button is circular and easy to feel. In this way, I know that my fingers will always make contact with the proper button. While I understand what Titleist said about accidentally releasing the other buttons, I feel it is a training issue, not a gear issue. But, to each his own.
Shroud Interface mechanisms are also worth mentioning. This category is also a tie, but for different reasons. The INVG comes out of the box with the standard USGI back plate. I have never liked this interface because it is kinda cheap-feeling. I've broken a couple of them and accidentally released the lever, dumping my NODS more than once (thank God for 550 cord). It has always been accidental while performing other tasks. I might get some webbing caught against it or something like that. But, the bottom line is the release is pretty touchy. The saving grace is that Norotos's ingenious engineering team has developed a modular system that allows you to swap back plates. They have a proprietary plate that locks into a proprietary shroud, making it much more stable.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/clasky/EE/Helmet_Mounts/3shrd_3.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/clasky/EE/Helmet_Mounts/uni_shrd_3.jpg
But, you have to use the proper shroud for this back plate.
Wilcox has a very cool breakaway feature that allows you to set the mount. The G24 uses a shuttle switch to set it for hard mount(ain't coming off unless you release it) or breakaway (allows the mount to pop free from the shroud under 100 ft/lbs pressure). And, while the G24 interfaces with the same shrouds as the INVG, the Wilcox system uses a more robust release lever that requires more deliberate action to release.
As for the VAS shroud, I really like it. It is well made, lightweight, jump-rated, and stays secure to the helmet.
I was waiting for Clasky to pipe in on this discussion. My experience with NODs have been mostly self taught and by gleaming information from people more experienced than I am, obviously since I don't kick down doors at night for a living. So that puts my experience in a certain category that the guys from TNVC obviously trump.
That said, I've fumbled with the Wilcox mounts, and just found the INVG mounts more intuitive based on my needs. As Clasky pointed out it probably IS a training issue and not gear issue.
I really do like how flat the wilcox mounts lay in comparison to the surface of the helmet they're mounted on. Even with the INVG and Norotos Dovetail mount you still have to be hyper-aware when moving through a structure or in and out of a vehicle. It's REAL easy to whack the NODs against the top of a door.
The wilcox does have some nice features like the extra add ons like the retractable lanyard. But generally I find the INVG in combo with the 3 or 1 point mounts to be really simple to use. I love the universal shroud, but I'm still a huge fan of the 3/1 points that all you to just index it on the bottom of the plate, push in. Doesn't get simpler than that.
Thanks for the input, Clasky.
Specifically vertical adjustment. The USGI rhino mount only has the tilt and fore-aft movement and I've found that while I can make it work, I feel like my head is at a weird angle.
Ahhh that is right, I had forgot about that. Usually what ya wind up doing is cranking the tilt of the mono way nose down in order to get the eyepiece close enough to your eye. Then ya walk around with your chin lifted working on a nice case of neck strain. Norotos has plates with extra holes drilled in them for moving the mount up but your are still stuck with the folded height problem.
I'm using the PT-Alpha helmet so I'm curious if that's the issue or I really just can't get the rhino mount to adjust where I need it. The big draw to the INVG mount was the ease of vertical movement, and the ease of stowage is a bonus. I like being able to flip up the USGI mount without finding a button and carrying that through to the INVG seems like it would be a nice feature to have.
The PT alpha helmet padding is thick Thick THICK placing the whole affair far away from your eye. I am not a big fan of the PT alpha. The Ops Core bump Helmet is a GRAND idea but, like you said wallet busting. Heck you could probably do a MICH helmet cheaper.
I'm not hands-on familiar with either it or the Wilcox G24 so I'm taking a gamble here but it seems like the INVG would be just as easy if not easier to adjust, and because it uses a screw to change height that it would be less prone to needing readjustment than the Wilcox. I would be worried that banging the lever would throw it out of alignment easier than something twisting the screw. I'm assuming that it's the lever that changes height on the G24 and not the screw on the side. It seems like a fair assessment but having never used either I'm looking for input.
The Wilcox height adjustment lever when locked down is VERY Solidly locked down, I mean it is very hard to get undone. Once it is undone though the up and down movement is completely loose. The screw knob on the INVG is cool though as it acts as a micro adjustment to get the height EXACTLY where you want it.
I'm undecided on the break away feature of the G24, and if having that outweighs any benefit the INVG has. Also, while it stows lower than the USGI mount, it appears that it still has a higher profile than the Notoros. I also realize that I will be losing some side-to-side swing adjustment by going with the Notoros dovetail over the Wilcox twisty but I guess that's just something I'd have to try to decide.
The break away feature is a "nice to have" IMHO, and unless you are going to possible getting in and out of vehicles or running through doorways with your NVD on your head the benefit is negligible. I have always been afraid that if I ever smacked the 14 hard enough to pop the break away feature, the 14 was going to be done. Granted a neck injury is a worse thing but I don't feel this outweighs the features of the INVG.
I'm also thinking I may need to upgrade to a different helmet instead like the Fast BUMP where the shroud is mounted more vertically. That may solve my problems with the rhino mount but being just as wallet destroying it's kind of a wash as to which avenue to approach first.
On the Helmet selection, Consider finding a different helmet. I have used the Bell faction with great success and I am in the middle of modifying a Protec helmet at the moment. I picked up said Protec skate board helmet CHEAP on overstock.com and I am retrofitting it with helmet pads an Ops core VAS shroud and suspension system.
Now all that being said have you considered either of the face mask options? Norotos makes a nice one as does L3 / Litton.
In closing I think if your purely going to be mounting a PVS 14 and not dual tube goggles, the stow feature of the INVG is the shining star here. All the other features are great as well but the stow takes the cake. Also a few posts up I said that the Dual Dovetail Adapter (DDA) does not give you side to side movement, that is true BUT.... I just talked to Norotos this morning and they have changed the DDA to where it now adjusts side to side. I ordered one today and I will report back next week on how well it works.
IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
militarymoron
07-15-10, 19:18
for those who have used the norotos face mask - does it interfere with the electronic hearing protection (sordin, peltor etc)? it also looks like it's limited to USGI j-arm use, not the wilcox or norotos adapters (correct me if i'm wrong).
it also looks like.......
.....Hannibal Lecter but that may or may not be a problem depending on your circle of friends.
The main problem with the face mask is that it doesn't offer any sort of noggin protection. I'd like at least a little something, and anything I'm doing that doesn't require some sort of head protection I probably won't be doing long enough for the skull crusher to start, well, crushing. It looks like it flips up though which is kinda cool. It's just not something I'm looking for, and yes, it would appear that it only utilizes the USGI j-arm.
I don't think I'll be getting in and out of vehicles all that often or running through doors with it flipped up. I think the forward stowage of the INVG would also negate that for the most part, and any spill I might take that's enough to activate the breakaway feature of the G24 is probably going to be bad enough to either toast the PVS, or toast me. It's good to hear that the Notoros dovetail has side-to-side adjustment too, I think that's putting it over the G24 right now.
I'll take a look at some other helmet types. If nothing else I can use my PT helmet when I snowboard and pick up something else to try. I'm also interested in how the new dovetail performs and will hold off purchasing until I can see a review.
Thanks for the information guys, I've got a lot to consider.
for those who have used the Norotos face mask - does it interfere with the electronic hearing protection (sordin, peltor etc)? it also looks like it's limited to USGI j-arm use, not the wilcox or norotos adapters (correct me if i'm wrong).
The Norotos face mask does not interfere with any kind hearing pro or headset use. The suspension is simply flat nylon. There is no plastic wrapped around your head like the skull crusher.
Also the mounting options of the face mask are either the USGI mount for the standard Head Set Adapter (J arm) for the PVS-14 and the PVS -7 or the Navy Dovetail for the PVS-15 and PVS-18. When you order it you simply have to specify which mounting option you want.
IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
militarymoron
07-15-10, 21:16
thanks for the info IPSC_GUY.
johnny - i'm looking at the face mask purely from a comfort point of view. no protection needed.
thanks for the info IPSC_GUY.
johnny - i'm looking at the face mask purely from a comfort point of view. no protection needed.
You're right, and I should have clarified, it's not something that I'm particularly looking for, and the lack of protection is only my reason for discounting it. I was only speaking to my needs.
I've heard several people say that they're very comfortable and they can go for long periods of time wearing them and not even think twice. If I were looking for a setup for long duration of wear and didn't need a helmet it's definitely the setup I would go with. And if nothing else it's scary!
thanks for the info IPSC_GUY.
johnny - i'm looking at the face mask purely from a comfort point of view. no protection needed.
The Norotos Face mask is very comfortable for long term wear as is the L3/Litton mask. One funny thing with either is finding a hat to fit over it...
Also another bit of advice for the Norotos mask, unless your absolutely going to be diving the mask (as in Scuba diving) get the leather pads over the submersible pads. The submersible pads are some sort of plastic that become horribly sticky in any humidity above 15%.
IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
Ok I got the new Norotos Adjustable Dual Dove Tail in today and basically what they have done is, put a small horizontally moving track under the dovetail mount. There is an easy to reach and turn, thumbscrew that locks down the side to side movement. I was expecting something that swung on a pivot like the J arm but this combined with the other axis of movement on the INVG provided all the adjustment needed to place the Monocular exactly where I wanted it. This new "adjustable" Dove Tail will retrofit to older Dual Dove Tails. I have not had a chance to ask Norotos yet but I Imagine they will sell just the new part.
My only complaint now, about the whole set up is the fact that the DDTA places the On / Off switch of the PVS 14 (if run over the right eye) inboard, in front of your nose. If run over the left eye it places it outboard. In other words you have to use your left hand to manipulate the On Off switch. You can use your right but you have to reach either completely over the top of the mounted 14 or twist your hand around unnaturally to reach the switch. Now this is not a big deal and will require some getting used to but not a deal breaker. Again the stow feature of the INVG outweighs just about any negative of the system.
All in all it gets an IPSC_GUY two thumbs up.
IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
....put a small horizontally moving track under the dovetail mount. There is an easy to reach and turn, thumbscrew that locks down the side to side movement....
Would you mind posting a picture of this?
Would you mind posting a picture of this?
Here is a pic of the Version2 Dual Dovetail Mount from Norotos. It has been out since January (SHOT Show) and is the only model they are shipping. You can see there is an adjustment screw that tightens the rail slider for the positioning it over the eye, laterally. It is a pretty good solution considering what they have to work with. I have not experienced any sort of play in the mechanism.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/clasky/NORO_dul_doveV2_1.jpg
Thread resurrection.
this video made me order an INVG mount and dovetail for my PVS14s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5WtcZmTuYU
I let yall know how it turns out.
Paul_Santiago
10-09-10, 21:24
Thread resurrection.
this video made me order an INVG mount and dovetail for my PVS14s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5WtcZmTuYU
I let yall know how it turns out.
Have you got yours yet? Mine (INVG) is kinda sloppy really. I like the idea but the detent on the tringular arms is not solid.
Paul
I am wondering if I should replace the standard RHINO Mount-J Arm on my PASGT.
If so, which system would fit and which would work best?
Have you got yours yet? Mine (INVG) is kinda sloppy really. I like the idea but the detent on the tringular arms is not solid.
Paul
I'm trying to decide between the G24 and the INVG. I've read a couple of those type of comments about the INVG. Where is the slop? Just on the triangular arm?
I'm currently running a USGI Rhino w/ J-arm on an Ops-Core shroud.
Works reasonably well, my biggest complaint is how chintzy the J-arm connects to the Rhino arm.
Sorry for the necro-bump, but this thread has some great info and is relative to my current interests. Any new options since this thread died, or are the INVG and G24 still the top choices?
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