View Full Version : Sig Pro or HK?
Mr. Goodtimes
07-14-10, 09:30
I'm replacing my Beretta 92FS. I've found the slide mounted safety to be unacceptable and am looking to replace it with something similarly priced. While the gun has been utterly reliable and dead nuts accurate, I'm very concerned that should I ever need to actually use the gun in a serious social circumstance, the safety could potentially do me in.
I'm looking strongly at the Sig Pro 2022 in 9mm. My big question is, at around 300-400 dollars more, is an HK P30 worth the extra coin? Especially with the new "small" grip for the 2022.
I dont have the ability to shoot the weapons before I buy them but both feel good in the hand and the ergonomics are good.
The guns main use will be CCW and a home defense weapon. Are there any problems with the SP 2022? I hear almost nothing about them. The few reviews I have read have been very favorable but I'm looking for some more.
The local city PD, Richmond, VA, carries the SIG Pro in .357 SIG and haven't had any glaring issues.
I'll say that the P30 will be more sustainable as far as holsters, sights, etc.
FWIW I am not sure what prices you are looking at but around where I live it is possible to find the SP2022 at very good prices which makes the HK about twice as expensive as the Sig.
I was where you are 2+ years ago. I looked at every gun that my LGS/R had in stock. It came done too the P30 and SIG maybe the P226. Don't remember. I bought the P30. It fit my hand the best.
I had a SP2022 9mm a while back. It was a good performing pistol. However, I have large hands and I thought that the grip width was just too fat. Kinda like holding a Glock 21.
I think that you'd be more satisfied with the H&K.
Mr. Goodtimes
07-14-10, 09:46
Holsters were a concern, and I do have to give a slight edge to the P30. Im a lefty and I really liked the paddle style mag release.
Pick the one that fits you the best. But yes, it wouldn't surprise me if the HK was well worth the extra coin. All my HKs were.
I've had both. The P30L was the latest.
P30L, hands down, if you can afford it and not hurt yourself financially.
Between the two I'd say go with the H&K.
JeepDriver
07-14-10, 11:25
I have 3 USP's and a 9mm 2022.
I love my 2022 ! I waited and waited to buy a Sig Pro, only because I never liked the previous frame style. After the 2022 came out and I handled it I knew I had to have one.
Mr. Goodtimes
07-14-10, 11:28
Buds is selling the P30L for $779.00 shipped right now... seems like a steal deal to me. Thats $805 bones including my dealers transfer fee, which makes it $100.00 cheaper still than a 226 E2.
EDIT: Includes night sights as well!
I don't have any experience with the HK, but I have been very pleased w/ my Sig Pro.It is a little chunky however and I need to dress accordingly if I am going to CCW it. But I guess that goes for most double stack service pistols.
It is in my opinion a great value and could easily be a $600 pistol (paid a little under $500 for mine).
Mine came standard w/ night sights.
My .02 cents.
gtmtnbiker98
07-14-10, 13:01
The P30 is easily twice the pistol when compared to the SP2022, so you could expect to pay more, even twice. You get what you pay for.
Buds is selling the P30L for $779.00 shipped right now... seems like a steal deal to me. Thats $805 bones including my dealers transfer fee, which makes it $100.00 cheaper still than a 226 E2.
That's a very good price for the SA/DA IMO. I read in your previous post that you prefer the mag release of the HK. If so I say buy the HK as no amount of money can make up for not getting the one that feels better to you.
Iv'e never owned a Sig Pro, but ive heard mostly good things about them. They are a bit on the bulky side compared to a P30. Sig just recently released them with a smaller grip attachment, than had been previously available. I think they are a great value. But if you have the extra coin, go with the P30. It's been my favorite pistol for a while now.
I bought my Sig Pro because it was the highest quality pistol I could afford at the time due to budget constraints. That being said, I have been very pleased with it's reliability.
variablebinary
07-14-10, 16:28
The SIG Pro is too big for my tastes. It's a very bulky pistol.
I'd go HK in this instance
NinjaMedic
07-14-10, 18:37
I love my SP2022 in .40 S&W. It has been my everday carry pistol for almost six years now, in a raven concealment IWB holster for most of the last two (?, maybe longer). I put 500-1000 rounds through it a year in addition to my other firearms with zero issues. I also have several metal sigs (226, 229, 239), glocks (17, 22, 23), a springfield xd, an FNP40, a usp tactical, and a couple of other various pistols. I have shot both a P30 and an HK45 and like both a lot. I think both weapons are excellent choices. That being said I would save the money and get an SP2022 or a G17 and spend the rest on ammo.
NinjaMedic
07-14-10, 18:39
Also I would never in a million years characterize the SP2022 as "bulky" compared to an HK but to each his own I guess.
It's on the thick side, compared to a P30.
variablebinary
07-14-10, 20:56
Also I would never in a million years characterize the SP2022 as "bulky" compared to an HK but to each his own I guess.
Hold an HK P30 and SIG back to back. There is a huge difference.
And just in general, the SIG Pro is a brick, especially for it's magazine capacity and barrel length.
The 228 is smaller, weighs less, has the same capacity and same barrel length.
NinjaMedic
07-14-10, 22:18
The P228 weighs 825g, the P229 905g, and the SP2022 only 715g. Not sure of a direct comparison weight of the P30.
The P228 and P229 are 1.5" wide, the P30L is 1.4", while the Sp2022 is only 1.3" inches wide.
So the Sig Pro series is thinner and lighter than either the P228 or the P229 and is in-fact thinner than the HK P30.
Please dont post shitty information. If you subjectively feel that the Sig Pro series pistols are "bricks" thats fine, I disagree, however you are more than welcome to give your opinion just like me. That being said dont make statements of fact based on incorrect objective information easily accessible. It is the whole purpose of this great site to post hard, verifiable facts for others to learn from. Have a good evening and stay safe.
TheSmiter1
07-15-10, 00:34
I've always wanted an HK. I'd use any excuse to get a new firearm to either get an HK P30, P2000, P2000sk, or just get an M&P.
In this case, I'd say the HK, simply because of all the praise it gets from individuals with lots of experience. Especially around here. Lots of experience here, with words of wisdom that carry weight. I'd listen to the experts, in this case.
variablebinary
07-15-10, 03:38
The P228 weighs 825g, the P229 905g, and the SP2022 only 715g. Not sure of a direct comparison weight of the P30.
The P228 and P229 are 1.5" wide, the P30L is 1.4", while the Sp2022 is only 1.3" inches wide.
So the Sig Pro series is thinner and lighter than either the P228 or the P229 and is in-fact thinner than the HK P30.
Please dont post shitty information. If you subjectively feel that the Sig Pro series pistols are "bricks" thats fine, I disagree, however you are more than welcome to give your opinion just like me. That being said dont make statements of fact based on incorrect objective information easily accessible. It is the whole purpose of this great site to post hard, verifiable facts for others to learn from. Have a good evening and stay safe.
People can read the specs for themselves. And no one just carries or shoots width, they carry a whole pistol. By volume the 2022 is larger than fullsize glocks and M&P's, and is certainly larger than a 228 and 229 which I didnt mention but I added for reference.
The SIG 2022 (Sig Pro) is a nearly a whooping 60 cubic inches, without any benefits to barrel length or capacity.
Plus the 2022 grip is awful compared to the P30, which has one of the best feeling grips in the business
2022
**Overall Length 7.4
**Overall Height 5.7
**Overall Width 1.4
**Barrel Length 3.9
**Weight 30.2 oz
Pistol Volume 59.05
229
**Overall Length 7.1
**Overall Height 5.4
**Overall Width 1.5
**Barrel Length 3.9
**Weight 32.0 oz
Pistol Volume 57.51
228
**Overall Length 7.1
**Overall Height 5.4
**Overall Width 1.5
**Barrel Length 3.9
**Weight 29.1 oz
Pistol Volume 57.51
HK P30
**Overall Length 6.99
**Overall Height 5.43
**Overall Width 1.37
**Barrel Length 3.96
**Weight 26.07 oz
Pistol Volume 52
Glock 17
**Overall Length 7.62
**Overall Height 5.43
**Overall Width 1.18
**Barrel Length 4.49
**Weight 25.04 oz
Pistol Volume 48.82
M&P 9mm
**Overall Length 7.63
**Overall Height 5.5
**Overall Width 1.2
**Barrel Length 4.25
**Weight 27 oz
Pistol Volume 50.36
This is mostly irrelevant since the OP has indicated he is leaning towards the HK but I though I'd post some useful info and my impressions of the Sig SP2022 in 9mm since I got to test drive one for a few days.
The SP2022 is not small by any means but it's no 'brick' either. It is what it is, i.e. a service pistol and is used as such by police/dept of corrections in europe. The SP often fits the exact same leather holsters the XD9 does (per manufacturer specs as Don Hume for example) which makes the SP fairly typical for a service pistol size wise. It is also true that the capacity could be better with regards to its size but I personally do not consider 15 rounds of 9mm to be a deal braker. The fact that most SPs found on the market come with night sights is also very nice in my book. I could be wrong but it seems to me that most US made SPs come with night sights while most german made ones don't. Any which way check with the seller if you're buying one online, don't just assume it will come with night sights. Also the german made SPs have a different slide finish than the ones made in the US.
Unless you're a big guy the SP2022 is probably not the best suited pistol for daily CCW, however the grip itself is easy to manage if you have normal to large hands (the pistol comes with two different size grip inserts that can also be swapped for a CT laser grip). I have average sized hands and had no problem shooting the Sig. In fact I really liked the meatier grip a lot but that is something for each and everyone to try for themselves. I shot about 500 rounds through a SP2022 in 9mm and found the pistol to be very accurate and soft shooting. The one I tried did not appear to be ammo sensitive and ate everything I fed it including but not limited to WWB, Wolf and Win Ranger +P. The gun ran without a single malfunction. Follow up shots were quick as the pistol soaked up a lot of the recoil and returned back on target effortlessly. The first DA shot was very manageable and did not result in any obvious flyers. Although it had more travel than I like, the trigger of the gun I tried was excellent overall wether in SA or DA. I do mean this: that trigger was actually better than on some Sigs/HKs I shot before and that cost twice as much as the SP (!) Overall I was very impressed with how the SP2022 performed. The person I borrowed the Sig from paid $440 for his (new, OTD price). If you like the thicker than usual grip and can find a SP in the $400 to $500 range, I honestly think you are getting a lot of gun for the money. I actually spotted one for just over $400 at one of my local gunshops a few days ago and I think I should just go ahead and buy it before someone else does, slap a light on it and use it as a HD gun.
I have not shot the particular HK model the OP is considering so I can't comment on it except to say that if it is anything like the HKs I tried it should be a good gun but I seriously doubt is 'easily twice the gun the Sig is' and also that I would not pay retail for it (or most of the Sig or HK lineups for that matter... but I'm cheap). However the deal the OP found seems appealing for the SA/DA version and since that is the gun he seems to favor, I think he should simply go ahead and buy it. As usual YMMV.
The P30 is easily twice the pistol when compared to the SP2022, so you could expect to pay more, even twice. You get what you pay for.
Based on what criteria?
The P228 weighs 825g, the P229 905g, and the SP2022 only 715g. Not sure of a direct comparison weight of the P30.
The P228 and P229 are 1.5" wide, the P30L is 1.4", while the Sp2022 is only 1.3" inches wide.
So the Sig Pro series is thinner and lighter than either the P228 or the P229 and is in-fact thinner than the HK P30.
Please dont post shitty information. If you subjectively feel that the Sig Pro series pistols are "bricks" thats fine, I disagree, however you are more than welcome to give your opinion just like me. That being said dont make statements of fact based on incorrect objective information easily accessible. It is the whole purpose of this great site to post hard, verifiable facts for others to learn from. Have a good evening and stay safe.
Anyone who has any experience with Sigs knows that the widest portion of the pistol is on the upper part of the grip which houses the decocker. This is where Sig takes its width measurement, and is not where the SP2022 feels like a "brick". In order to have interchangible grips, Sig had to add a significant amount of bulk to the lower areas of the grip which effects ergonomics. Even with the smallest grip, the SP2022 had increased grip circumferance from the upper part of the grip from the hand web to the trigger guard over the classic series P228 and P229. I have a LOT of trigger time with all three models. I've also been a Sig armorer for 5 years and worked on a lot of DOI pistols. The best way I can describe a SP2022 is like having a P229 with Hogue wrap-around rubber grips only not as ergonomic or as secure in the hand.
If you want to go with the Sig, I advise going with the P229 over the P228 or SP2022. Otherwise, the H&K is a better overall package.
gtmtnbiker98
07-15-10, 14:19
Based on what criteria?Mine. Oh and 20,000 rounds in under a year through my primary P30L. The SP2022 was too big for my liking, so I much prefer the P30 to all others. It simply works for me, so it is well worth the premium.
I really like my p30L and would say go with the HK just because I have had great luck with it accurate and reliable so far. My wife shoots it well (small Hands) and I shoot it well (larger hands).I have only owned mine a short time but have already put the better part of 3000 rounds downrange and it has been flawless. But don't listen to me look at what other tests have been done out there by people that really know about this stuff Todd G for example has put 91K + downrange a fair bit of reading but well worth it yes it is Todds fault:D that caused me to buy one and then another for my wife
here is the link to his test.
http://pistol-training.com/archives/category/range-reports/p30-thursday
As an owner and shooter of a SP2022, I do think it is a solid pistol and probably the best bang for the buck in the pistol world. I have seen them in Texas Academy stores for $460 with night sights and 2 magazines. If you are looking for a low cost replacement then I think the SP is a no brainer. It is not however IMHO as slick of a pistol as a Sig P series, the ergonomics are not as nice, and it is a little on the "clunky side."
I have not shot the P30 so can't comment other than to say that those with far more shooting experience are lining up to sing its praises.
Is it worth the extra $400? Only you can decide - how much is $400 worth to you :confused:
Mine. Oh and 20,000 rounds in under a year through my primary P30L. The SP2022 was too big for my liking, so I much prefer the P30 to all others. It simply works for me, so it is well worth the premium.
Yeah but "easily twice the pistol"? Sounds like fanboy bias to me. No offense.
NinjaMedic
07-15-10, 21:43
gtmtnbiker98 i find it difficult to believe that you send 20,000 rounds a year downrange through a single weapon unless you work full time as a firearms instructor. Thats around 400 rounds a week and I assume that being on this site you probably practice with at least a carbine as well. If you can truly devote the resources (time and money) it takes to send 500 rounds a week downrange then you are a lucky man. I am just skeptical.
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