Trying to decide which upper to get...

[JSTICFRALL]

I can't decide which upper to get next. I'm looking at either the:

DDM4V3 http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPr...p;idcategory=57

Addax Combat Elite http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPr...p;idcategory=57

or

Adams Arms Tactical http://westernsportonline.com/index.php?ma...products_id=396

I've been reading up on piston uppers for a while now but I'm still not sure if it would be the best idea in the world. I don't want to turn this into a "which is better" debate as far as piston or DI go. I'm weighing the options of build quality, features, etc. Any input? I'm open to other suggestions as well. I just can't freakin decide which way to go. I was also looking at Spikes Tactical as another option.

My main use for the gun is gonna be range/home protection/s.h.t.f./carbine courses in the future.

[9DivDoc]

In the above header you will see the large initials BCM
click on them...no search would be complete without
a thorough examination of the Bravo Company product line

BTW what you are looking for is a 16" BCM middie...light wt...with a micro aimpoint..and some kind of light
(I'ma Malkoff fan myself)...I'd go for a Daniel Defense Omega rail.

[Belmont31R]

If I were going to buy a piston in an AR it would be either LMT or LWRC. But if I really wanted a piston gun I would buy one that started life out as a piston gun like the ACR or SCAR (more heavily on the SCAR). Piston AR's are getting better but they still come with their own set of issues.


DI will suit your needs just fine, and you can get parts from just about anyone. With proprietary parts you are stuck with that one company, and with some of the smaller no name brands if they go TU what are you going to do for parts in the future?


All you need to do to keep a DI gun running is keep it lubed, start out with a quality gun, and keep up with basic maintenance.



Another vote for BCM although there are quality brands besides them like Daniel Defense, LMT, Colt, etc.

[JSTICFRALL]

I totally forgot to mention that I looked at BCM. They're another tempting company to go with and I've heard nothing but good things about them. Nice things is that I wouldn't be stuck with whatever BCG comes in the uppers and I'd get to choose which one I wanted. Definitely looking towards a chrome BCG. Any downsides to using those? The only experience I've had is with the standard phosphate that my RRA upper had.

[Belmont31R]

I totally forgot to mention that I looked at BCM. They're another tempting company to go with and I've heard nothing but good things about them. Nice things is that I wouldn't be stuck with whatever BCG comes in the uppers and I'd get to choose which one I wanted. Definitely looking towards a chrome BCG. Any downsides to using those? The only experience I've had is with the standard phosphate that my RRA upper had.



They are a little easier to clean but thats about it. BCM also sells their BCG with the IONBond finish which is pretty cool stuff. Very wear resistant, and it has the same excellent BCM BCG underneath it.

[JSTICFRALL]

Any reason why you guys would pick BCM over DD? Are BCM's CHF barrels made in house or are they outsourced from another company?

[hikeeba]

Correct me if I'm wrong - because I probably am wrong - but I do not believe BCM BFH (CHF) barrels are made in-house. I think Bravo Company has all of their branded components manufactured to their specific and stringent specs by outside sources. Not that there is anything wrong with this. If my theory is correct, it explains how BCM is able to provide top-notch products at competitive prices. Bravo Company may assemble their complete uppers, complete lowers, and complete rifles in-house, but I am guessing they do not forge or finish receivers, forge or turn barrels, or actually manufacture any other components. Again, I could be completely wrong on this.

When I was doing my own barrel research several months ago, I came across info that indicated their SS410 barrels came from an outside source. The manufacturer was a well-known, well-respected name that I recognized at the time, but the name escapes me now. I also want to say that there was one guy at the company that turned all the BCM SS410 barrels, too. Again, I could be misrembering that stuff, since it was months ago, and during that time I was reading a ton of stuff about all sorts of different barrels.

[JSTICFRALL]

I figured that was probably the case. My biggest concern with the upper I decide to go with is barrel and BCG quality (which is everyone's concern, right?) I want to get an upper that I have to "upgrade" down the line and not have to pay tons of money for. I'm kinda putting myself at $1k or less. I've heard lots of good things about DD's barrels. What exactly is it that makes cold hammer forged barrels so much better other than strength? Does the process result in reduced variances in movement creating better accuracy?

[Biggy]

Daniel Defense will be coming out with their cold hammer forged 14.5" and 16" lightweight (.625"approx) profile middy barrels in 4-6 weeks.

[organdonor]

Supposedly CHF barrels possess greater longevity. Unless you're shooting competitively or attending a lot of carbine classes; I doubt you'll ever exceed the limits of a good chrome lined, mil-spec barrel. Having said that, there's no reason not to go with DD.

[JSTICFRALL]

Daniel Defense will be coming out with their cold hammer forged 14.5" and 16" lightweight (.625"approx) profile middy barrels in 4-6 weeks.

I like the sound of that!

[hikeeba]

I think you're on the right track in cosidering your barrel and BCG to be first and foremost. I feel the barrel and BCG comprise the heart of the rifle. Skimp on those items, and you've got a Dick Cheney of a rifle. Granted, DC is stil alive, but not without some modifications.

There's gobs of info out there in The Google about cold hammer forging, and barrel making in general. From what I understand, cold hammer forging produces a barrel that is not necessarily more accurate than a conventionally produced barrel, but it will likely have a longer life span. Basically speaking, a conventional (or 'cut') barrel starts as a steel bar that is turned, drilled or reamed for the bore, and then the rifling is cut into the bore. In cold hammer forging, a reamed but not rifled barrel blank is placed around a mandrel that contains a reverse image of th e bore (with rifling). The cold hammer forging machine then hammers the barrel onto the mandrel, which forces the bore to take on the shape of the mandrel which includes the rifling. The cold hammer forging process puts more stress on the barrel, further aligning its particles, and therefore creates a stronger, more durable barrel that will last longer when compared to a similar cut barrel that is used in the same manner.

At least that more or less what I've read, anyways. Cold hammer forging is a much faster process than conventional cutting, but the reason you don't find dirt-cheap CHF barrels is because the equipment is apparently very expensive. Back to the accuracy issue, there are plenty of variables that can affect each process, so it's probably impossible to say which method produces a more accurate barrel. I guess that would depend on the proficiency of the maker, the barrel specs, and how well their equipment is maintained.

[JSTICFRALL]

Well that pretty much answers my question, thanks man. I didn't realize the process was so involved! It definitely makes a lot of sense though. I figure if I'm spending so much on a quality upper I might as well go CHF for the barrel and call it a day.

[Entropy]

I've been very pleased with BCM products. They really are the best bang for your buck AR on the market right now. You will also read a lot of posts in this forum from guys who have put many thousands of rounds downrange with them, along with instructors and other experts that have been impressed with their performance.

You can get a wide variety of 16" mid-length BCM uppers from here:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-16-Mid-Length-Group-s/27.htm

Here's a stripped down 16" hammer forged barrel, mid-length, BCM upper:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16%20bfh.htm

[carl15]

Correct me if I'm wrong - because I probably am wrong - but I do not believe BCM BFH (CHF) barrels are made in-house. I think Bravo Company has all of their branded components manufactured to their specific and stringent specs by outside sources. Not that there is anything wrong with this. If my theory is correct, it explains how BCM is able to provide top-notch products at competitive prices. Bravo Company may assemble their complete uppers, complete lowers, and complete rifles in-house, but I am guessing they do not forge or finish receivers, forge or turn barrels, or actually manufacture any other components. Again, I could be completely wrong on this.

When I was doing my own barrel research several months ago, I came across info that indicated their SS410 barrels came from an outside source. The manufacturer was a well-known, well-respected name that I recognized at the time, but the name escapes me now. I also want to say that there was one guy at the company that turned all the BCM SS410 barrels, too. Again, I could be misrembering that stuff, since it was months ago, and during that time I was reading a ton of stuff about all sorts of different barrels.

I've read plenty of places FN does their barrels but have not confirmed.

[Belmont31R]

I've read plenty of places FN does their barrels but have not confirmed.




There are only a few companies in the US that hammer forge barrels. The equipment is way too pricey for a relatively small shop like BCM or Noveske to be doing their own CHF barrels. I think KevinB said their SR15 barrels come from Colt Canada....

[SuicideHz]

True, Noveske does not make any barrels in-house. It's all done by employees of another shop, who punch our of that company and punch in under Noveske's time and begin work...