View Full Version : BiPod
jfiganiak01
07-15-10, 13:30
Anyone have any suggestion for a bipod for a Daniel Defense M4 Carbine. I am new to the AR's and was just trying to get some ideas. Thanks.
Buy once, cry once.....get a Harris BRMS w. notched legs and in my case an ADM BP qd bipod mount and then a Harris BRMS(I had to buy the pod and mount separately but I just prefer ADM and so that the route I went.....if you do not want ADM mount like me just go the easiest route and most fast way and order the larue mount and BRMS in a combo direct from larue.
This is the best unit on the market imho and has been the industry standard bearer for quite some time.
Two things.....
1.) BRMS is a bench type bipod so if you plan to shoot differently with your bipod than you most likely need a larger model.
2.) Its great to have that qd bipod to pop on when doing some groups or something with your DD m4, however I strongly rec. not keeping a bipod on the DD m4 until the actual moments you happen to be using it....the bipod mounted is going to wreck the balance of a lighter and much shorter rail than bipods traditional work well on.
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=172
I agree with the Harris/LaRue combo, but I like this one a little better:
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=263
It has the LaRue mount "built in" to the bi-pod, making it a little lighter and lower profile. The only drawback is that in can then only be mounted to a rail and not a regular swivel stud.
Here are some other photos:
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2766/arrightfrontacogb.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2918/arleftside.jpg
... just go the easiest route and most fast way and order the larue mount and BRMS in a combo direct from larue.
If you don't have rails, then the easiest and fastest way to mount a Harris bipod is to use Harris's own "AR" adaptor...
It's just a sling swivel that fits inside the lower handguard and pokes out through one of the existing holes.
Best of all, it retails for $10 or so...
Bimmer
Why do you need a bipod on a carbine?
I agree with the Harris/LaRue combo, but I like this one a little better:
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=263
It has the LaRue mount "built in" to the bi-pod, making it a little lighter and lower profile. The only drawback is that in can then only be mounted to a rail and not a regular swivel stud.
Here are some other photos:
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2766/arrightfrontacogb.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2918/arleftside.jpg
I must say, that is one helluva fine specimen for my take at least on what a true Recon rifle should be...or as some call it for reasons unknown to all but prob. Crane Works....Recce Rifle. Hell lets call it the Seal Recon Rifle:D] I am quite the fan of a baby nxs.....dynamite package with respect to glass quality, highly compact size and being built more tough than an M1A2 Abrams main battle tank. Nice job on thinking that build out component to component;)
I too would agree about latest larue/harris with Mark's additional mods to it......very sexy piece of kit but so is the slightly older model.
ThirdWatcher
07-15-10, 20:48
It has the LaRue mount "built in" to the bi-pod, making it a little lighter and lower profile.
+1 You normally don't need a bi-pod on a carbine, but I have one of these in my rifle case just in case I change my mind. :D
devildogljb
07-15-10, 21:17
Look into grip pods, love mine, but make sure you dont buy off of ebay alot of air soft fakes on there
Why do you need a bipod on a carbine?
+1 Beat me to it.....
You have a built in support device on your carbine, it's called a magazine. Use it!
Harris is a good choice. Recently I have been testing a Versa-Pod and like it as well.
My bull barrelled bench upper has a harris bi-pod with swivel and loves it.
My carbine upper has nothing but handguards.
More expensive and strictly a rail mount setup, but I'm lovin' my Atlas.
This is my primary rest and I shoot (with fair success) to 700 Meters. The advantage is being able to load some forward pressure into the bi-pod for better stability.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4021/4691886012_120274aac7_b.jpg
I must say, that is one helluva fine specimen for my take at least on what a true Recon rifle should be...or as some call it for reasons unknown to all but prob. Crane Works....Recce Rifle. Hell lets call it the Seal Recon Rifle:D] I am quite the fan of a baby nxs.....dynamite package with respect to glass quality, highly compact size and being built more tough than an M1A2 Abrams main battle tank. Nice job on thinking that build out component to component;)
I too would agree about latest larue/harris with Mark's additional mods to it......very sexy piece of kit but so is the slightly older model.
Thanks for the kind words, Trident. This is the second AR I have put together, and so I had a better understanding of exactly what I wanted going into this one. Starting with a clear purpose definately helps define the componenets going into the build.
I agree with your assessment of the compact NightForce. It is built like a tank, which makes it a little heavy, but in my opinion, well worth it.
The question raised: Why use a bipod on a carbine? The answer is based on the individual and the mission must be defined before the individual can answer the question.
I have two carbines, a 10.5" sporting a T-1 and a 16" wearing a Short Dot 1 X 4. I consider the 16" my "longer range" carbine. While I can get hits past 100 yards with a magzine supported hold with the SBR, I can do it much faster and more accurately at 200 yards with the 16" and a Grip Pod. The little bit of extra stability provided by the tiny bipod legs of the Grip Pod make a huge difference.
I could see using a lightweight dedicated bipod like a Harris BRMS on the 16" gun, but for me the Grip Pod works well enough as a vertical grip and bipod. On the SBR, I can't see using either and I have a Larue FUG in the shortest configuration on it for CQB ranges.
So, as to the OPs question, if the mission is CQB out to 200 yards, probably wouldnt recommend a bipod; a Grip Pod is a good option. If you anticiapte lots of shooting past 200, a Harris 6-9 or 9-13 BRMS is light, and relatively inexpensive for a dedicated bipod. The Atlas is a more expensive, but very highly regarded bipod and I would like to try one. I would go with the small Harris and adapter since you can use it on rails or studs.
Someone will come along to explain why a bipod isn't necessary even at 200+, but then that goes back to being a matter of individual choice.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/DWood13/DSC_0644.jpg
More expensive and strictly a rail mount setup, but I'm lovin' my Atlas.
This is my primary rest and I shoot (with fair success) to 700 Meters. The advantage is being able to load some forward pressure into the bi-pod for better stability.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4021/4691886012_120274aac7_b.jpg
HOT damn, 2 sexy precision based guns w. NF now in this thread....can somebody say gun porn:D
I am glad you posted up that Atlas....do you have time w. the BRMS and if so can you elaborate on your thoughts on the differences b/t the two. I can say for sure the Atlas really looks like a great unit and appears to be a good bit more robust.
eta....now I see three sexy guns....S&B works too:)
...
I am glad you posted up that Atlas....do you have time w. the BRMS and if so can you elaborate on your thoughts on the differences b/t the two. I can say for sure the Atlas really looks like a great unit and appears to be a good bit more robust.
Trident,
I've had the standard S model Harris since Christ was a Corpral ;), but not the BMRS version. The Harris "S" served me well and it's still attached to a .308 bolt gun. (The attachment point on the 700 VSSF .308 is a sling stud, so the Atlas won't work without adding a piece of rail.)
Actually the Harris is probably the more robust - but a better word might be "stiffer". Lean into the Harris and everything slides forward, whereas the Atlas has some spring in the leg pivot area and allows some forward pressure or "loading" - which is an advantage to precision shooting (IMO).
The bi-pod "loading" thing is also aided by the slightly different angle of the Atlas' legs to the bore line Vs the Harris (note the pic I posted). Mr. Atlas grips the surface of the ground (or bench) better as a result.
The Atlas also swivels on both the horizontal and vertical planes, whereas the Harris only swivels on the vertical plane. That's not quite as big a deal as it might sound, however. The downside on the additional Atlas function is if you pivot off to the side to engage a second target and then pick up the gun, the Atlas stays off centered. The Harris, not having that function stays centered to the bore.
The additional Atlas function is worth having, however (IMO) - engaging a string of targets left and/or right of center is noticeably smoother and takes less effort.
On the vertical plane (correcting for uneven ground) - the Atlas stays where you rotate it. The Harris is spring loaded and you may have to fight it just a little. Not a big deal here either, but a slight advantage to the Atlas.
The Atlas legs will deploy in three separate positions: 45* forward, vertical, or 45* rearward. I've yet seen a need for the 45* angles, but could envision a situation where someone might - shooting downhill or under and obstacle; and you need to keep your noggin low and out of sight. (Probably never in my lifetime.) Also each leg will store either full forward or full rearward.
The legs on the Harris are faster to deploy since you just start them into motion and they snap into place (spring loaded). The Atlas legs must be pulled downward (one at a time) and then rotated into the appropriate notch. Advantage to Mr. Harris, at least in a 3-gun competitive environment.
No advantage to either on extending the legs, just different systems.
The Atlas seems to do more with less, if that makes sense. It's a very streamlined setup.
Trident,
I've had the standard S model Harris since Christ was a Corpral ;), but not the BMRS version. The Harris "S" served me well and it's still attached to a .308 bolt gun. (The attachment point on the 700 VSSF .308 is a sling stud, so the Atlas won't work without adding a piece of rail.)
Actually the Harris is probably the more robust - but a better word might be "stiffer". Lean into the Harris and everything slides forward, whereas the Atlas has some spring in the leg pivot area and allows some forward pressure or "loading" - which is an advantage to precision shooting (IMO).
The bi-pod "loading" thing is also aided by the slightly different angle of the Atlas' legs to the bore line Vs the Harris (note the pic I posted). Mr. Atlas grips the surface of the ground (or bench) better as a result.
The Atlas also swivels on both the horizontal and vertical planes, whereas the Harris only swivels on the vertical plane. That's not quite as big a deal as it might sound, however. The downside on the additional Atlas function is if you pivot off to the side to engage a second target and then pick up the gun, the Atlas stays off centered. The Harris, not having that function stays centered to the bore.
The additional Atlas function is worth having, however (IMO) - engaging a string of targets left and/or right of center is noticeably smoother and takes less effort.
On the vertical plane (correcting for uneven ground) - the Atlas stays where you rotate it. The Harris is spring loaded and you may have to fight it just a little. Not a big deal here either, but a slight advantage to the Atlas.
The Atlas legs will deploy in three separate positions: 45* forward, vertical, or 45* rearward. I've yet seen a need for the 45* angles, but could envision a situation where someone might - shooting downhill or under and obstacle; and you need to keep your noggin low and out of sight. (Probably never in my lifetime.) Also each leg will store either full forward or full rearward.
The legs on the Harris are faster to deploy since you just start them into motion and they snap into place (spring loaded). The Atlas legs must be pulled downward (one at a time) and then rotated into the appropriate notch. Advantage to Mr. Harris, at least in a 3-gun competitive environment.
No advantage to either on extending the legs, just different systems.
The Atlas seems to do more with less, if that makes sense. It's a very streamlined setup.
That is such a great assessment and that most certainly schooled me on the subject I asked for. Thanks much;)
Last question for you after already taking so much time with that great report above.....notice any diff. little as they may be in your groups shooting bench b/t the two?
That is such a great assessment and that most certainly schooled me on the subject I asked for. Thanks much;)
Last question for you after already taking so much time with that great report above.....notice any diff. little as they may be in your groups shooting bench b/t the two?
Sorry - I'm unable to compare the Atlas and Harris bi-pods side beside on the same rifle. The Atlas needs a rail mount and the SPR was built with this in mind.
A comparison would not be fair to my Harris model either - it's one size longer than the Atlas and sets a little high for the bench. It's primary use was for 3-Gun back when I was a serious competitor. Our match director was fond of working in some long shots taken over or through weeds and brush. It worked fine for that.
But since you are making me work so hard on the Atlas verbage :D I decided to snap a pic of my 12x18" gong from the last range session - just for bragging purposes. :o
It's 5 consecutive hits at 700M (765 yards) using the Atlas from the bench. I don't use a butt bag and find that not to be disadvantage, btw.
I do admit that conditions were perfect and the shooter was having an above average day. Extreme spread for the five is 5.5" (but only Molon could calculate the mean radius). Ammo is a 77gr SMK reload.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4077/4800434994_e75d456e5c_b.jpg
Sorry - I'm unable to compare the Atlas and Harris bi-pods side beside on the same rifle. The Atlas needs a rail mount and the SPR was built with this in mind.
A comparison would not be fair to my Harris model either - it's one size longer than the Atlas and sets a little high for the bench. It's primary use was for 3-Gun back when I was a serious competitor. Our match director was fond of working in some long shots taken over or through weeds and brush. It worked fine for that.
But since you are making me work so hard on the Atlas verbage :D I decided to snap a pic of my 12x18" gong from the last range session - just for bragging purposes. :o
It's 5 consecutive hits at 700M (765 yards) using the Atlas from the bench. I don't use a butt bag and find that not to be disadvantage, btw.
I do admit that conditions were perfect and the shooter was having an above average day. Extreme spread for the five is 5.5" (but only Molon could calculate the mean radius). Ammo is a 77gr SMK reload.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4077/4800434994_e75d456e5c_b.jpg
I lost this thread and luckily google helped me out, must of logged of for that day before this latest reply by you which is awesome info.
All your hard word with the verbage and schooling should not go to waste as I am really close to buying another bipod, perhaps on Mon.
Its b/t the new modded larue or this Atlas which I really want more and feel is prob. the better choice however, its quite radical from anything I have fielded before and so before I shelled out the $230 or so for it I figured I get all the info I could on it.
Bottom line, we shoot eerily close SPRs w. nxs 2.5 (x32) and I have no problem going straight to the rail and actual think its the much more logical solution then using the bipod adapter that tends to become loose being the weakest leak most times. You make one point that almost sells me on the Atlas.....Its your primary rest. If this is the better pod to shoot groups from the bench from then the harris like I have become so used to than I will roll with the atlas.
Great shooting by the way, and that is really pushing the performance envelope of a 18" SPR...very impressive. Wish I readily had that type of real estate to even make that attempt. Anyway pal, I surely appreciate all your excellent info on these Atlas pods as they still are kinda Gorillas in the mist in terms of the non bolt shooters world.
TRIDENT82,
Thanks for the kind words.
If you have researched the Atlas, I'm sure you've seen where the QD version comes with an ARMS throw lever - or you can order sans rail attachment and then chase down a LaRue or ADM attachment point.
The only place I found a QD Atlas in stock at the time was at US Tactical Supply - and that was with the ARMS rail mount. So that's what I went with. The ARMS mount has a little metal clip on one side that can be a pain when mounting the Atlas to the rail. Sometimes it's not positioned just right and you have to slide it into position with you finger in order for everything to mesh up with the rail. The engineering on the ARMS QD could use some improvement.
It's not a "major" issue, - and otherwise the ARMS QD lever works very well - but I thought I would throw it out as "food for thought".
You have straight schooled me now officially on this atlas;) I did see the one with the ARMs mount but IIrc it was close $280 and then saw the two other models that were priced at $225 or so, makes sense now.
The very last question I promise:D....Is yours the most current model (V8) or the older V7 model?
Is yours the most current model (V8) or the older V7 model?
Maybe a Flat-Head Six?
Well I had to go look it up: No push button on mine so I guess it's a Version 7. For sure it's not the Version 5, which is also shown on the Atlas site and the pics at US Tactical Supply also appear to be a V5.
Mine does not have the split ring on the bottom of the tension adjustment wheel.
Ok, thanks brother;)
Not sure if you have checked out the info on snipershide...but here is a nice thread I have been reading along with a cpl. others on that site. Thanks once again for all your tremendous help and hopefully sooner or later I will have a shiny, new bipod:)
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1840129
I had not seen that one before hunting for the newer V8 model, but earlier Sniper's Hide posts are what got my interest up. I've gleaned lots of good info from there as well as from M4C.
Still waiting for Bobro Bipod to be in-stock.
Who knows when though....:sad:
I just can't seem to justify the cost of an Atlas for the type of shooting I do. I'm thinking about a Harris BRMS but the "Harris Bipods" website doesn't seem to actually be affiliated with the company other than selling the product.
The Larue looks interesting, I might have to take a closer look at it.
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