View Full Version : Standing accuracy at 200 yards
What is considered acceptable accuracy at 200 yards with a carbine from the standing position?
At the range today I was only able to hit a 8" gong about 1/4 of the time from the standing. I could see by when I broke my shots that I was probably missing just a couple inches high right/low left according to the natural sway of my sight picture (Aimpoint H-1 and I am a lefty).
Kneeling and sitting I was hitting about 1/2 to 2/3 of my shots, again with some random sway having an effect.
Prone I was hitting about 9/10 times and had almost no movement both supported and unsupported.
I asked a guy the other day that shoots rifle competion what kind of groups does he shoot. I forget exactly what kind of competition he shoots but they use open sights and strap jackets on themselves with heavy gloves to shoot long barrel AR's. He said standing he generally keeps the shots in the bull at 200 yds. I think he told me the bullseye was 13" for 200 yards.
Wouldn't want him shooting at me. The trick is to haul butt before he can get his gloves and that jacket strapped on... ;)
independentrider1
07-17-10, 07:00
What is considered acceptable accuracy at 200 yards with a carbine from the standing position?
At the range today I was only able to hit a 8" gong about 1/4 of the time from the standing. I could see by when I broke my shots that I was probably missing just a couple inches high right/low left according to the natural sway of my sight picture (Aimpoint H-1 and I am a lefty).
Kneeling and sitting I was hitting about 1/2 to 2/3 of my shots, again with some random sway having an effect.
Prone I was hitting about 9/10 times and had almost no movement both supported and unsupported.
Sounds like you need Appleseed. www.appleseedinfo.org
John Hearne
07-17-10, 07:37
Second the recommendation for Appleseed....
What is considered acceptable accuracy at 200 yards with a carbine from the standing position?
At the range today I was only able to hit a 8" gong about 1/4 of the time from the standing. I could see by when I broke my shots that I was probably missing just a couple inches high right/low left according to the natural sway of my sight picture (Aimpoint H-1 and I am a lefty).
Kneeling and sitting I was hitting about 1/2 to 2/3 of my shots, again with some random sway having an effect.
Prone I was hitting about 9/10 times and had almost no movement both supported and unsupported.
Switch to Irons at that distance and you'll see a remarkable increase in hits. (good standard A2 or similar irons... not that HK shit or MBUS stuff)
I'm garbage shooting standing, but holding one foot groups slow firing at that distance is definitely attainable. Sitting should be a much more frequent hitting affair at 200m, so I'd add another +1 for Appleseed, or other fundamental oriented shooting. I know I'm a just an OK shooter, but that has made such an improvement.
200 yards and closer is the standard against an F-type, pretty large:
http://www.odcmp.com/Photos/08/AllArmy/dsc00963_std.jpg
Girls can do it:
http://www.odcmp.com/Photos/08/AllArmy/dsc00967_std.jpg
http://www.odcmp.com/Photos/08/AllArmy/dsc00977_std.jpg
E-type left, F-type right:
http://i26.tinypic.com/2wdylut.jpg
http://www.odcmp.com/Photos/08/AllArmy/dsc01031_std.jpg
http://www.odcmp.com/Photos/08/AllArmy/dsc_5920_std.jpg
http://www.odcmp.com/Photos/08/AllArmy/dsc_5837_std.jpg
Robb Jensen
07-17-10, 13:04
I practice shooting 200yds offhand as much as I can.
At last weekends 3gun match at Blackwater on Range T12 we had to shoot some steel that was 175-200yds and you could use a barricade for support. One piece of steel was at 200yds but you had to shoot it offhand to be able to see it through a car window, the car was at 100yds. I got it on the 2nd shot. Many people couldn't hit it.
That's the kind of 3gun stage that separates the rifleman from the hosers.
Standing 100 and 200 with my AR series can be fun.
I don't enjoy standing with my FAL trying to string out a bunch of hits unsupported for very long. The extra pounds and extra length hanging out there really take their toll on me. I'm still trying to rebuild my lower back/core strength after blowing up a few discs and facets.
200 yards and closer is the standard against an F-type, pretty large
What is the size of the black area on the F-type?
One piece of steel was at 200yds but you had to shoot it offhand to be able to see it through a car window, the car was at 100yds. I got it on the 2nd shot. Many people couldn't hit it.
That's the kind of 3gun stage that separates the rifleman from the hosers.
What size of steel and what kind of sight or optic used?
I think next time I go to the rifle range I will throw some paper up at the 200 and shoot for group from different positions instead of just shooting at the steel. Although I have to say, not getting to shoot steel very often, it is very satisfying, so I wish the range had differing sizes of steel instead.
organdonor
07-17-10, 16:43
I can shoot sub MOA groups standing at 200 yards. With an AK. :cool:
Biz Kizzle
07-17-10, 16:52
I can shoot sub MOA groups standing at 200 yards. With an AK. :cool:
i do that also but prefer to do it while eating a sandwich blindfolded. ;)
independentrider1
07-17-10, 17:14
The stance in these photos is very good except they have a perfectly good sling they are not using. If they were to utilize the sling their shots would be much more accurate.
200 yards and closer is the standard against an F-type, pretty large:
http://www.odcmp.com/Photos/08/AllArmy/dsc00963_std.jpg
Girls can do it:
http://www.odcmp.com/Photos/08/AllArmy/dsc00967_std.jpg
http://www.odcmp.com/Photos/08/AllArmy/dsc00977_std.jpg
E-type left, F-type right:
http://i26.tinypic.com/2wdylut.jpg
http://www.odcmp.com/Photos/08/AllArmy/dsc01031_std.jpg
http://www.odcmp.com/Photos/08/AllArmy/dsc_5920_std.jpg
http://www.odcmp.com/Photos/08/AllArmy/dsc_5837_std.jpg
I can shoot sub MOA groups standing at 200 yards. With an AK. :cool:
====================
I can too...if I can use a two shot group picking the best two shots out of a 100...:no:
.
organdonor
07-17-10, 18:30
i do that also but prefer to do it while eating a sandwich blindfolded. ;)Yeah... right. :rolleyes:
Mike Miller
07-17-10, 18:35
The stance in these photos is very good except they have a perfectly good sling they are not using. If they were to utilize the sling their shots would be much more accurate.
I'm not sure how it is in the Army, but in the Marines we were not allowed to use the sling for support in the standing on rifle quals
Yeah, that nonsense started in '07. Pretty idiotic, given how much like a competition course of fire Table 1A is. However...
From MCO 3574.2K, pg 3-3: "The rifle sling will be adjusted to the parade configuration for web slings. For three-point slings, the sling must be worn in its standard three-point configuration or hanging free from the body. Three-point sling body loop is not authorized."
Someone with half a brain knows that you can adjust a 3-point snug enough to provide support in the offhand, and because they don't specifically define "standard configuration" to say that you cannot do so, all you have to do is put on your Brig Lawyer hat, and be prepared to Request Mast if you run into opposition. If it's not in [angels sing] The Order [/angels sing]
Also, I've seen it successfully argued that the adjustable 1-point, being not mentioned in the least, and therefore not being specifically forbidden...is therefore authorized (we ain't the Red Army, where unless it's authorized, it's forbidden). You can snug that up too.
This stuff affects pros/cons, FitReps, and promotion, so game the game. Do stuff the hard way in practice, so you know you can do it that way, but when the rubber meets the road....give yourself every advantage you can within the boundaries defined by the precious freakin' Marine Corps Order governing the Marksmanship Program.
I.e., cheat your ass off.
Robb Jensen
07-17-10, 19:54
What size of steel and what kind of sight or optic used?
I think next time I go to the rifle range I will throw some paper up at the 200 and shoot for group from different positions instead of just shooting at the steel. Although I have to say, not getting to shoot steel very often, it is very satisfying, so I wish the range had differing sizes of steel instead.
A rectangular piece of steel hanging upright about 12"x16" or so. It's unpainted down their too. So the gray color blends in dirt back ground and makes it very hard to see. My Scope is a Burris 1-4x XTR at 4x for that stage.
The stance in these photos is very good except they have a perfectly good sling they are not using. If they were to utilize the sling their shots would be much more accurate.
I was under the impression that using a sling for support on an M-16/M-4/AR without a free floating barrel negatively affects accuracy. Is this just an urban legend?
Standing 100 and 200 with my AR series can be fun.
I don't enjoy standing with my FAL trying to string out a bunch of hits unsupported for very long. The extra pounds and extra length hanging out there really take their toll on me. I'm still trying to rebuild my lower back/core strength after blowing up a few discs and facets.
Back in the day I set up my webgear so that I could rest my arms on double mag pouches at 2 & 10 oclock when on patrol with a FAL as we were not allowed slings. I could rest my elbow on the 10 oclock mags to add support for standing shots to 400. Cheat if you can:p
I was under the impression that using a sling for support on an M-16/M-4/AR without a free floating barrel negatively affects accuracy. Is this just an urban legend?
Yes, but usually not as much as the sway from shooting completely unsupported will make you inaccurate. Two steps forward, one step back is still one step forward.
In a match or for quals shoot by the rules.
There are no rules in a gunfight. You wanna use a sling, you should if it racks kills. After the fight when you're sorting shit out and counting the dead no one's going to care what you were wearing or sporting -- just who won and who's still alive.
If you maneuver, run, and shoot better tight and slung up do it.
Sharpshoot what you want, but we'd appreciate pictures and scores instead of keyboard quarterbacking.
Yeah, that nonsense started in '07. Pretty idiotic, given how much like a competition course of fire Table 1A is. ...give yourself every advantage you can within the boundaries defined by the precious freakin' Marine Corps Order governing the Marksmanship Program.
I.e., cheat your ass off.
Couldn't agree more - since they've made it a game, play to win. I run ESS eyepro to get a maximally consistent cheekweld. I still haven't seen a valid reason not to game the Table II in similar ways, and I can't help but screw around during the T3/T4 shoots.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.