Pellet gun or .22 for kid? [Archive]

Bimmer

07-19-10, 13:55

Hi all,

My daughter will be five years old in October, and I think I'm ready to get her a gun for her birthday.

I don't want anything too expensive (>$200), but I don't want something that's going to immediately fail or get boring too fast, either.

I have a Marlin bolt-action .22, but it's a full-size rifle, and she's 3'6" and 45lbs... both the barrel and the stock are too big (and too heavy) for her.

After a lot of research, my first thought is to get her a Savage Cub Mini Youth. They're small and light enough for her to handle, but they have decent triggers and sights (unlike the "chipmunk").
They even come with pink stocks (I'm really ambivalent about that, though).

Option 2 is some kind of .177 pellet gun...

The advantage of the Savage is that I've handled them, and they seem sturdy. I've shot .22s, and I know the limitations of the cartridge, but I figure a single-shot .22 is pretty much fool-proof.
The disadvantage of the pellet gun is that I remember airguns being crappy, prone to breakdown, and generally disposable...

The advantage of the .22 is that it's a real gun, and we could take it to the real range. Of course, it's also a disadvantage that we'd HAVE to take it to the real range to shoot it... It's only a 15-minute car ride, but loading everything in the car and driving somewhere would demand that much more than just shooting a pellet gun off the deck into the backyard...

Anyway, does anybody make airguns that are (1) decent quality, (2) inexpensive, and (3) designed for kids?
Gamo seems to make nice guns, but they're explicitly for adults (not sized for kids).

Please advise,

Bimmer

99HMC4

07-19-10, 16:17

My 3 1/2 year old Son has a Buck BB gun and a 10/22. Get both. He shoots the shit out of them and he loves (as do I) every minute of it....

RancidSumo

07-19-10, 16:25

khc3

07-19-10, 17:30

If at all possible I would tack another $100 onto that price range and look at a CZ scout. It is single shot but can be upgraded to five or ten round mags by just changing the mag. I love my CZ rimfire and I think you would too. (also comes in pink if that matters)

http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-452-scout/

I got one of those for my daughter when she was about 7. She recently proudly gave it to her little brother after I gave her my 452 military trainer.

The Scout is a fine little gun.

Gutshot John

07-19-10, 17:53

3 1/2? 5? Am I the only one a bit uncomfortable with this?

Get yourself a .22 and let your kid shoot it but giving a child of this age a firearm isn't doing anyone any favors.

thopkins22

07-19-10, 18:02

3 1/2? 5? Am I the only one a bit uncomfortable with this?

Get yourself a .22 and let your kid shoot it but giving a child of this age a firearm isn't doing anyone any favors.

You're probably misinterpreting "give." I received my first rifle when I was five as a gift from my grandfather. A single shot .22lr...but it stayed in the safe and I was only able to shoot it when he was there. It wasn't really mine in the legal sense of ownership...but nobody else used it and it gave me some pride and responsibility of ownership.

I don't think anyone is advocating giving a five year old a rifle to keep loaded under their bed for the boogeyman.

Giving himself a rifle that will be primarily used by his son is almost certainly what's being discussed.

Smuckatelli

07-19-10, 18:11

The CZ-452 Scout is a good rifle to teach on.

I bought it for my 8 yr old son because until he finishes treatment; contact sports have to be avoided. We took our youngest (6 yr) out with us, she really got into shooting.

To address John's concern; you are right to be uncomfortable but the rifle stays in the safe except when they are on the range. My youngest daughter now wants a pink scout.......I ain't gunna admit that I own a pink rifle, so those rifles are the kids rifles:D

Anecdotal, my son doesn't feel comfortable pointing toy guns at friends anymore.

ChicagoTex

07-19-10, 21:05

I grew up on single-shot pellet/bb guns. The benefit of being able to shoot indoors is tremendous, and they're quieter and don't really recoil (.22s DO recoil a little bit, it's minor to adults, but may be the difference between fun and intimidation to a small child). It's what I personally recommend for everyone starting shooting from scratch, regardless of age.

No matter what you choose, starting off with a single-shot is absolutely the way to go. Kids have a low patience threshold and seek instant gratification, give them something that reloads quickly (or instantly) and they'll just waste ammo, rather than learning to make their shots count. When they get good enough that missing at reasonable range distances is basically impossible, you can introduce something quicker.

Preferred User

07-19-10, 22:29

The only issue I see with a pellet/BB gun is the effort required to cock it. A "springer" takes quite a bit of effort to cock. A PCP (pre-charged pneumatic) takes a big bicycle type floor pump or scuba tank refill. So with either of those an adult will have most of the work. Would the adult doing most of the work be discouraging or take some of the fun out of shooting? Not sure.

Also while there is not recoil in the traditional sense, there are a lot of moving parts, especially in a springer that make the gun move off target when fired. And in some of the air guns the report is every bit as loud as a .22 report.

FWIW I have quite a bit of fun hunting with my PCPs and I have some younger relatives (7+) that love them as well, so I do not mean to deride pellet guns. They are just different.

ChicagoTex

07-20-10, 00:03

Surf

07-20-10, 00:05

I built my son a Noveske based rifle for his 5th birthday and he also has a .22 bolt rifle waiting. He is 6 now and he doesn't shoot the real weapons yet but he knows they are for him someday if he does well with school and all of his activities. I just picked up a set of full functioning, full weight DA/SA Sig Sauer P226 Airsoft pistols so that I can continue his education on weapons. At 6 years old, he has a greater understanding than most adults. :)

M4Fundi

07-20-10, 00:42

Red Ryder, fun, safer and fun. oh and cheap

ChicagoTex

07-20-10, 00:50

Red Ryder, fun, safer and fun. oh and cheap

a swell suggestion for a kiddo. I always wanted one, but I outgrew Red Ryders by the time I was about 7...

Bimmer

07-20-10, 13:55

Am I the only one a bit uncomfortable with this?

Get yourself a .22 and let your kid shoot it but giving a child of this age a firearm isn't doing anyone any favors.

Yes. I've seen enough people (much older than 5) handle guns poorly to be uncomfortable with ANYBODY else having access to a gun.

And yes. As several others here have pointed out, this is what I'm talking about. The gun stays in the safe until it's time to shoot, and the gun is only handled with very close supervision (from me).

Bimmer

Bimmer

07-20-10, 14:02

If at all possible I would tack another $100 onto that price range and look at a CZ scout...

Yes, thanks, I've heard of these, and I've heard nothing but ejaculatory praise for them but I eliminated the CZ because (1) I don't like open sights on a rifle, and (2) the rear sight should be at the back of the receiver.

I think it's really really really important that she learn to shoot with iron sights, so the iron sights need to be really good.

My Marlin 25 came with the same sights as the CZ, and I hated them enough to replace the rear sight with a Skinner aperture, but the aperture is still too far forward...

And the CZ is also bigger and heavier than the Savage...

Bimmer

DTHN2LGS

07-20-10, 14:18

I would suggest a BB gun to start, simply because it is an American tradition. (imagine picture of waving American flag icon here)

Then get the .22 as well and keep it in the safe and teach the kid to shoot it safely too. I started with a single shot Stevens my grandfather passed down to me. The size of the kid should determine which .22 to get, getting one too big for them will not make it easy to handle safely.

Bimmer

07-20-10, 15:37

I would suggest a BB gun to start, simply because it is an American tradition.

I never had a BB gun. Friends did, and I can remember them being slow, frustrating, and inaccurate. I don't have good BB gun memories...

The size of the kid should determine which .22 to get, getting one too big for them will not make it easy to handle safely.

The Savage Cub is about as small and light as they come... really, it's only 3lbs, and the length of pull is so short that it's awkward for me to shoot.

Bimmer

M4arc

07-20-10, 15:40

My son was a little older, eight, when I bought him a S&W M&P 15-22 from G&R. He freaking loves it!

Bimmer

07-20-10, 15:56

My son was a little older, eight, when I bought him a S&W M&P 15-22...

I hear you... I already have a .22 conversion for my AR!

My daughter is tall and long-limbed for her age, and with the stock collapsed all the way, she can shoulder the AR (we tried it out).
However, it's still a loooong reach to the forearm... this is going to take a couple more years.

Bimmer

99HMC4

07-20-10, 17:26

3 1/2? 5? Am I the only one a bit uncomfortable with this?

Get yourself a .22 and let your kid shoot it but giving a child of this age a firearm isn't doing anyone any favors.

Good God, give me a little credit....:rolleyes: Hes really safe with it and he knows only to soot it when we leave him home a lone and hes outside playing on the pool cover......;)

ThirdWatcher

07-20-10, 18:40

I started the Warrior Princesses out with BB guns (as they don't make all the noise that firearms have). We always treated them with the respect that all firearms deserve. Being girls, they never really had the desire for toy guns, so it really wasn't too hard to always obey the four rules. Ultimately, they graduated to Marlin .22LR single shot bolt action rifles and then repeaters and revolvers.

They each got their own weapons and didn't have to share them (to create a sense of ownership). We lived away from town, so I let them keep their firearms in their bedrooms (w/o ammo). By the time they entered the Army, they were perfectly comfortable living with their firearms.

The rule you gotta go by with young people though is you don't shoot when they're shooting. You have to coach them and be ready to deal with issues like FTFs, etc. While I normally enjoy shooting rather than watching it, I really grew to enjoy watching them shoot.

usmcvet

07-21-10, 06:39

I've been down this road three times. I bought the little Marlin for my son when he was a few months old. I sold it a few years later when i saw a Savage Cub. It was twice the gun. The safety and peep sight did it for me. I bought a Cricket in pink for my little girl. I was disgusted with that safety it was IMO a POS! I bought her a Pink Savage Cub. Then we adopted our third at age four and i bought her a Pink Daisey Red Rider because she liked her brothers Red Rider. I just did not see the point in duplicating the. 22s at the time.

I would buy her both a Cub and Red Rider in pink. They are what they are but they are super light and a good way to teach the fundimentals. Id also get her the pink Cub it is an awesome little gun. That is why wed did any way. The freaking smile on her face when she sees the pink stock will be priceless.

The high quality pellet guns i've seen are just too big for little kids.

rob_s

07-21-10, 06:52

We bought the boy a .22 for, IIRC, his 10th birthday. We got the Ruger 10/22 youth model. If we had the space to shoot an airgun at home or the rifle at the range, I would have gotten him an airgun first. We do have some airsoft that we shoot on the patio but it's not the same thing.

usmcvet

07-21-10, 07:01

The 10-22 will be our next gun if the kids enjoy their bolt guns. I just emailed my local shop and asked them to order another Savage Cub! They are all locked in the safe. Even the bb guns.

My kids don't have toy guns just real ones. I've always told them if they would like to see their gun to ask and we will go get it.

Please let us know what you end up doing.

Avenger29

07-21-10, 10:21

I had a Crossman .177 cal BB and pellet gun, you had to pump it to charge it (either from 1-10 pumps depending on how much velocity you wanted).

It was VERY frustrating to use. The pump was hard for me to use at the age (it's not a back and forth pump, you swing it down and back up- hard for a kid and it pinched me a lot).

Also, eyepro is exceptionally important with BB guns simply because they have HIGH likelihood of ricochet if you shoot pretty much anything other than paper.

I think a .22 would be much better. Also, the gun I had had open style sights. Which means I got pretty good with them, but they also ingrained a 6 o'clock hold mentality that I'm still trying to break. It's the way the manual instructed me to shoot and I never knew of any other way until much, much later.

I HIGHLY suggest a .22. Also, don't dismiss CZs just yet. TechSIGHTs makes their excellent sighting system for the CZ bolts as well as the Ruger 10/22 and a couple of the Marlins. Check them out pronto. http://www.tech-sights.com/

Also, don't forget you can load a semi with a single round in each magazine to simulate a single shot. CZs also have a plus in that they take a single shot adapter (included with the Scout model).

Bimmer

07-21-10, 12:33

My kids don't have toy guns just real ones.

Please let us know what you end up doing.

I don't think "toy" guns are a good idea, either.

We were at a friend's house last weekend for a birthday party, and one of the kid's had a toy gun. It was really, really disturbing to see kids pointing guns at each other pulling the trigger (click).

Worse, our hosts (Germans) knew that I'm a gun owner (this is exotic over here), and therefore thought I would approve of their 5-year-old having a toy gun.

Anyway, I've got another month or two to mull this over, but I'm back to the Savage Cub...

Bimmer

Bimmer

07-21-10, 12:40

... don't dismiss CZs just yet. TechSIGHTs makes their excellent sighting system for the CZ bolts...

Also, don't forget you can load a semi with a single round in each magazine to simulate a single shot. CZs also have a plus in that they take a single shot adapter (included with the Scout model).

I like the idea of the TechSights, but then that's another $70, and then the CZ would cost almost double the Savage...

And it's not that it really has to be a single-shot (it's easy enough to load any bolt action one round at a time), it's that there isn't anything as small and light as a Savage Cub.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the Scout. If I didn't already have a decent .22 bolt action for myself, then I'd want a 452 (for me). For a little kid, though, I think the Cub is going to be better...

Bimmer

Gutshot John

07-21-10, 13:05

I genuinely have no problems with children handling/using firearms with proper supervision.

It's less about whether a child should have firearms as it is about having the physical and intellectual faculties to understand consequences if they handle them improperly at <5 years of age. My little nephew just got his first .410 at 8 and is going hunting with his dad and me. He's proven himself to be completely responsible and is a genuinely good kid.

I have no problem "giving" (whether to keep or in trust) a child a firearm once they've demonstrated a thorough awareness of what it means to be responsible. I grew up in the shadow of a firearms tragedy in my family. Was it the fault of adults? Yes probably but the children still have to live with the consequences of their actions.

Since I don't know anyone here I can't give "credit" to people I don't know any more than I can condemn them without knowing the facts. The ages mentioned made me (and probably others though reasonable people can disagree) "uncomfortable" but if you're being a responsible parent, I'll take that at face value.

Bimmer

07-21-10, 13:24

It's less about whether a child should have firearms as it is about having the physical and intellectual faculties to understand consequences if they handle them improperly at <5 years of age...

I agree entirely.

I would NOT trust my almost-five-year-old daughter with a gun. I really don't trust most adults with guns.

My plan is to hang over her (literally) to make sure that she's handling the gun correctly at all times. When I take her to the range, I'll be taking HER to the range, and NOT doing anything else.
I've seen too many so-called "parents" at the range who set up their kids with a .22 and a brick of ammo at one table and then go shoot their own guns at another table. Uh-uh. No way. Not me.

As for the "intellectual faculties to understand consequences," again, I doubt that most adults have this — just look at how people drive.

In any case, my daughter now rides a two-wheeler. Of course I always ride with her, but I can only be sooo close.
Even if she's on the sidewalk (and when there's a sidewalk, she IS on it), she still has to cross streets and look out for cars pulling in and out of driveways.
Thankfully, she's already had a couple minor spills and scraped up her knees and elbows enough to know that riding her bike is serious business and that she needs to be really, really careful.

Hopefully I can teach her the same thing about guns without anybody getting hurt!

Bimmer