View Full Version : new to 5.56 reloading
Ive been making nothing but .45 for many years and decided to start making my own 5.56. I had to separate all my brass from nato and winchester 223, and now only use the Nato 5.56
I have a rock chucker supreme with a piggy back 4.
I purchased some lee dies and after 20 rounds, the unbreakable pin broke. I went out and bought a RCBS 87580 universal Decapping die and continued with no problems.
All of a sudden, my bullets are not tight in the brass, and I
was able to twist them around. I dont know if its my human error or
what, but I felt uncomfortable with the lee dies and sent them back to
midwayusa today. I emailed rcbs and asked them to recommend a
die set for me, as I already have a universal decapping die. They
told me to buy the small base set for .223
I have now read where the small base wants you to trim off some of the brass and that you end up not getting as many uses out of the brass as with the full length set. X-Dies are on sale now, but Im just really confused as what to buy. I have FMJ 55g boat tail, and some
varmint grenades that have no crimp ring around them and are smooth. Lastly I have some Vmax 55g that does have the crimp ring, but the tip of the bullet seems to be longer, and I may need to
change the length of the die for setting these bullets and do them as a separate bunch.
I am using lake city brass, CCI primers, Varget powder ( all three bullets Im using 24.5 grains of Varget) so I am using the universal decapping die on a single stage lee D and decapping, then Im using
my RCBS Prep center to do everything else, and the crimp is removed
I dont know at this point if I should put brass in tumbler to get rid of
lube, as I figure I need the lube for the resizing die ?????
The first 20 I made before the pin broke seem nice and tight, but Im going to be very careful when I go to the range and just fire one at a time, or should I just use my hammer and take everything apart, and
it sure is different making bottleneck rounds rather then just straightwalled .45
I would appreciate any advice. I have many reloading manuals, but
Im hoping for info on what is the best for me and the SAFEST.
Last thing......If human error on my part, when I do get the new dies
and set things up, should I just try to make some bullets with no primer or powder, and then take a pair of pliers to test how well the bullets are seated?
Thanks for your help.
Mike
***********************************************
I spoke with a man at Hoffmans Gun Center today, and he said when I broke the pin and stopped using that die, it stopped resizing my brass....I thought the second die did that? anyway, ive ordered
the small base set, and we will just have to see how it goes. None of my reloading books really help me very much with any of this, that
I have read, so I will just have to watch some videos on youtube.
Thanks for your help and advice.
The RCBS small base resizing die is ideal for an AR. I'm using that set and it does not over-size the brass. Ideally you need a chamber check gauge to set the resize die.
I trim my brass every loading with an electric trimmer, but others I know only trim the first time and get by OK. (I mostly load heavy bullets (77 SMKs) for precision (without getting overly anal about it), btw.)
Do load some dummy rounds (no powder or primer) and manually run them through your rifle several times. Check overall length before and after to be sure the bullet is not being forced back into the case. Check any other way that sounds reasonable as well, to make sure you get good bullet pull.
It's very unlikely you will have any problems (especially with 55 grain bullets) if getting good case mouth tension, but it's potentially a problem when you load heavy bullets (68 - 77 grains). I have one problem-child upper that is unsafe with heavy reloads for this reason. (And two rifles that have never had this issue.)
Your on the right track and your head is certainly in the right place from a safety standpoint.
Lube only when you are in the resizing stage. Running the freshly sized cases through your vibratory cleaner is an excellent way to remove the lube. It does shorten the life of your tumbling media, but I don't know of a better way.
I have always had good luck with Lee dies. I also use an Xdie. I have never found a need for small based dies with my reloading. You should have a good case gauge. If the resized brass drops in and out of the case gauge, and you still don't have good retention. Maybe you should measure the bullets themselves. I have never encountered a resizing die that was machined incorrectly. But I suppose it is possible. Fellas that are used to resizing straight walled pistol cases sometimes find setting the die for bottle neck cases tricky. Make sure the resizing die is set correctly and I would have bought a case gauge before spending money on small based dies. Some fellas use them,but I think you'll find the general consensus is that they are not necessary for most of us.
I may be reading your post wrong, but are you using a universal decapping die as a replacement for the sizing die? If so, that's not going to resize the case. The bullets would be loose in the case neck as a result.
I have been using the same set of RCBS SB dies for decades. They are GTG. Usually I break a decapping pin when a Berdan primed case gets in the mix.
Contact Lee and get a new stem for your dies. If they're less than 2 years old they'll replace it free under warranty, otherwise it will run a couple of bucks.
I've used Lee dies for years and they work fine. Not knocking any other mfg, just saying in my experience Lee dies get the job done. I also don't think you'll need a SB resizer unless you are resizing brass that was fired in a generous chamber to begin with (e.g., a SAW or some other FA weapon) or your chamber is really tight to begin with.
I've checked resized cases using the RCBS SB dies I have. Measuring just above the web they resize the case Less than my factory Hornady TAP cases and to the exact same dimensions as some of my other factory ammo.
Checking some 2nd reloaded LC brass just now = .372"
Factory 75 gr .223 TAP = .370"
Factory '09 IMI M193 = .372
Factory SSA 77gr 5.56 /w New LC brass = .372
With the lee 3 die set, I figured the first die decapped the primer and the second die was the resizing die..........from talking to the guy at hoffmans, he said there is a ball thing in the lee first die that also
does something with the brass. So when I replaced the lee first die with the RCBS decapping die, I was missing out on a entire step.
What really bothered me was the second die would also take out the
new primers I had just put in, if I was not paying attention.
So now I will set up the Lee D single stage press with the rcbs decapping die, and take the primers out of all of my 5.56 brass.
Then I will use my brass center to get rid of the crimps and slightly
debur the inside and outside of the brass. Because Im not doing anything tight, I wont need to lube at any point here. Once all of my
brass have the crimp out, I will never have to worry about them until my next set of brass, but I will be buying new brass, and not new military loads, that have to go through the whole process again.
Ive measured the nato lake city brass with my MIC and for the most part, all of em are right at the 1.760, where they would not need to be trimmed. They have all only been fired once.
When I get the new dies in the mail, I will make many rounds with no primers or powder and try them out for how the feed into the
smith and wesson MP15 and I will be very very careful. Sure seems
so much more complicated then when I was making .45 rounds. But its just new to me, and after I get some confidence that what Im doing is safe and CORRECT, then I will feel much better.
Thanks for your help !!!!!!!!
Sounds like you might not have read the instructions that came with the dies.
A three die set normally has one size/decap die, a seater die and a crimp die. The decap/sizer die is almost always one unit in a basic set. All three must be adjusted in the press per the die makers instructions.
Any measurements to the brass must be done after they are resized.
I may be reading your post wrong, but are you using a universal decapping die as a replacement for the sizing die? If so, that's not going to resize the case. The bullets would be loose in the case neck as a result.
I have been using the same set of RCBS SB dies for decades. They are GTG. Usually I break a decapping pin when a Berdan primed case gets in the mix.
Yes. You misread it. Nothing in my post says anything about a universal die. I'm not the guy with a problem. I use an Xdie. RCBS makes it. I resize the first time with a Lee resizing die so I don't have to change the setting on the Xdie. After that, all resizing is done with the Xdie. The Lee die also has a stronger decapping pin. RCBS pins are awful IMO. If you don't know how the Xdie works. Do a search. It has been talked about before. You can bend pins with some brand dies while decapping crimped primers. Crimps vary a bunch. Some are easy to decap, and some are a lot tougher. If the tension is set correctly on the Lee resizing die, it should slide before you break it. I have broke one Lee pin in 26yrs. They are inexpensive to keep on hand.
With the lee 3 die set, I figured the first die decapped the primer and the second die was the resizing die..........from talking to the guy at hoffmans, he said there is a ball thing in the lee first die that also
does something with the brass. So when I replaced the lee first die with the RCBS decapping die, I was missing out on a entire step.
What really bothered me was the second die would also take out the
new primers I had just put in, if I was not paying attention.
So now I will set up the Lee D single stage press with the rcbs decapping die, and take the primers out of all of my 5.56 brass.
Then I will use my brass center to get rid of the crimps and slightly
debur the inside and outside of the brass. Because Im not doing anything tight, I wont need to lube at any point here. Once all of my
brass have the crimp out, I will never have to worry about them until my next set of brass, but I will be buying new brass, and not new military loads, that have to go through the whole process again.
Ive measured the nato lake city brass with my MIC and for the most part, all of em are right at the 1.760, where they would not need to be trimmed. They have all only been fired once.
When I get the new dies in the mail, I will make many rounds with no primers or powder and try them out for how the feed into the
smith and wesson MP15 and I will be very very careful. Sure seems
so much more complicated then when I was making .45 rounds. But its just new to me, and after I get some confidence that what Im doing is safe and CORRECT, then I will feel much better.
Thanks for your help !!!!!!!!
If you have any brass that was primed after being "just" deprimed (but not resized), then you will need to lube those. Otherwise you will stick the case in the die.
I'm trying to figure out which lee 3-die set you have: the one with a FL resizer, a neck sizing collet die and a seater, or the one with a FL resizer, a seater and a factory crimp die. When you mentioned that sometimes the second die would deprime the case, it leads me to believe you have the first setup, the one with the collet resizer, which functions as a neck resizing die only. This type of die is useful for bolt actions, but not for ARs. You should FL resize at each reloading.
Did your die set come with a set of instructions? If so, are you referring to them?
If you have any brass that was primed after being "just" deprimed (but not resized), then you will need to lube those. Otherwise you will stick the case in the die.
I'm trying to figure out which lee 3-die set you have: the one with a FL resizer, a neck sizing collet die and a seater, or the one with a FL resizer, a seater and a factory crimp die. When you mentioned that sometimes the second die would deprime the case, it leads me to believe you have the first setup, the one with the collet resizer, which functions as a neck resizing die only. This type of die is useful for bolt actions, but not for ARs. You should FL resize at each reloading.
Did your die set come with a set of instructions? If so, are you referring to them?
I read the instructions carefully and had another friend who reloads 5.56 all the time, come over and help me set it up. I sent all of the Lee stuff back a few days ago, so I cant refer back to the instructions again.
776391 Lee Deluxe 3-Die Set 223 Remington $28.99 is the set I had bought.
The Lee Deluxe Rifle 3-Die set includes a full length sizing die, collet neck sizing die and bullet seating die. Use the full length sizing die to produce ammunition to factory-new specifications using cases fired in other guns. The collet neck sizing die will allow you to produce ammunition that is fire-formed to the chamber of one rifle. Shellholder, powder measure, storage box and load data included.
So from what I have read....I should NOT have had the 2nd die (COLLET NECK SIZING) in at all, as I would only need a full length
and never a neck sizing...........oh boy !!!
Thank you so much for your help !!!!!!!
Mike
I may be reading your post wrong, but are you using a universal decapping die as a replacement for the sizing die? If so, that's not going to resize the case. The bullets would be loose in the case neck as a result.
I have been using the same set of RCBS SB dies for decades. They are GTG. Usually I break a decapping pin when a Berdan primed case gets in the mix.
Hi Tom, you read it right.......after I broke the unbreakable pin, I exchanged for the rcbs decapping die, not knowing that the lee first die also was for resizing....the second die I was using was for necks only, and I should not have even have had that in, as a semi auto CAR4 needs full length sizing, and not the neck.
Thanks for your help, you hit it right on the button!
Sounds like you might not have read the instructions that came with the dies.
A three die set normally has one size/decap die, a seater die and a crimp die. The decap/sizer die is almost always one unit in a basic set. All three must be adjusted in the press per the die makers instructions.
Any measurements to the brass must be done after they are resized.
I agree. OP-I don't think you've got the process down and understood. I agree with reading the directions again......or if you're like me sometimes....read them for the first time:p
BTW- my brass resized by the Lee resizing die measures .375, just above web at the resizing mark. The Xdie resizes to the exact same place but measures .374. Both will easily drop in and out of a Wilson case gauge. I like these two resizing dies because they resize further down on the brass then some other brands do. Especially dies made especially for progressive presses. These are sometimes beveled to help with auto indexing.
I sent back the lee die set and now with the RCBS and some help from a fellow reloader, I am making rounds that are great !!!
Using skype (video and audio live) I was able to have a friend with the same die set as mine (small base rcbs) tell me how his was set up
using a micrometer and after I set mine up like his, with just a small
tweak to let shoulder not be compressed, I am good to go !!!
Thanks for the help guys !
BTW- my brass resized by the Lee resizing die measures .375, just above web at the resizing mark. The Xdie resizes to the exact same place but measures .374. Both will easily drop in and out of a Wilson case gauge. I like these two resizing dies because they resize further down on the brass then some other brands do. Especially dies made especially for progressive presses. These are sometimes beveled to help with auto indexing.
Herd48,
I'm curious what your fired but not resized cases measure. I'm getting a caliper reading of .374" for unsized brass (just above the web) and my RCBS SB sizer takes them to .372" [add something less than .001" if I use an old Starrett micrometer]. This is out of a Noveske 18" SPR barrel, btw.
Probably just a difference in our calipers, but a relative comparison to your sized VS unsized dimensions would be interesting since I'm using SB dies.
Hi Shootist,
My fired brass (from a Rock River Arms rifle) measures 1.7 61 for total length and for my resized brass it is 1.7 64 for the total length.
Im sorry I do not know what the "web" is, but I set my caliper to .374 and nothing from the top of the neck to the bottom of the shoulder is that short..........Only my base, near where the primer is measures around that.
I am using a frandford mic that seems ok.
If you could just better explain what you would like, I will gladly do
the measuring.
Sorry Im a ditz when it comes to nomenclature
http://s968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/CTguy1955/remingtonar15.jpg
No problem - the web is that .376" measurement near the base of the brass from your SAAMI spec sheet, which is solid metal. Just above that, or about .25" above the very bottom of the case is the measurement I'm talking about being .374" (or .375" with a diff tool) for a fired case.
More importantly *to me* is the fact that my RCBS small base die reduces this measurement only .002" from my fired brass size in the Noveske SBR barrel. Of note, brass from a different (chrome lined) NATO chambered barrel is resized about .0025". My sizer dies are setup using a case gauge, btw.
So if the RCBS SB die sizes a fired case only .002 to .0025", just above the web, from cases fired from two NATO spec chambers, what is the similar reduction in size for a standard die?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.