View Full Version : I'm very curious...Has anyone ever tried to melt down and re-use once fired bullets?
Has anyone tried to melt down and re-cast once fired bullet metals?
If so please let me know how it worked out for you, and how you went about doing so.
I'm not really planning on doing this; I am more so wondering if it is possible at all?
Also I am wondering about the extent of re-use-ability (I know, I know) of the once fired bullet metal. IE- if I was to collect a nice heafty amount of it (100's of pounds from my range) could I recycle it for cash? I know the lead wouldn't be worth much recylcled, but copper would be worth a lot considering how much it has hiked recently (But then again I am not sure if the type of copper used in a bullet is going to fetch much of a $???).
Is most copper used in bullet manufacturing of the same quality or do we have eclectic types/alloys accross the board?
I would love to hear some metalurgists weigh in on this one.
Thanks.
High Desert
07-21-10, 15:42
Cast bullet range scrap can be melted down and reused; I have some on my casting bench right now. But I believe you are inquiring about jacketed bullets too. I have not tried this but have thought about it because lead is getting so hard to get at a decent price.
Some should be easy like the truncated nose Hornady exposed base pistol bullets. It seems the lead would flow out and the copper would float to the top just like wheel weight clips do.
Full metal jacket would seem to require some foundry type temperatures though. It would be interesting to here some further thoughts on this.
HD
Cast bullet range scrap can be melted down and reused; I have some on my casting bench right now. But I believe you are inquiring about jacketed bullets too. I have not tried this but have thought about it because lead is getting so hard to get at a decent price.
Some should be easy like the truncated nose Hornady exposed base pistol bullets. It seems the lead would flow out and the copper would float to the top just like wheel weight clips do.
Full metal jacket would seem to require some foundry type temperatures though. It would be interesting to here some further thoughts on this.
HD
Thanks for the info; good to know. I figured pure lead would be somewhat of an easy go; but pure copper and copper jacketed lead/other materials might be a bit harder to melt and re-work.
I'm interested to see what comes of this thread, I would love to maximize my return from used metal bulletsmaterials; shit I shoot so much if I could save 1/4 of the cash I sepnd on it I could buy a new rifle every month! And that woul dbe awesome!!!!!!
I've always tried to get the most out of everything I use and this seems to be a step in the right direction for getting more out of the bullets I use.
I wonder if commercial ranges collect the copper & lead and recycle/re-uyse it in any way? Any range guys here know if so; please chime in, thanks!
The melting point of copper is 3X that of lead. I think I would re-cast the lead and sell the copper.
You should me able to pour the lead off easily leaving the copper behind.
I know that one of the commercial lead bullet casters here in Ca. is always mining spent bullets (also shot pellets) at shooting ranges for recasting. Cheaper in the long run.
As far as scarp goes, if it is mixed you will always get WAY less than what ever the lower priced metal is. Lead might not be worth much per pound but it also the heaviest metal around, but when you have a pile of lead/copper jackets/dirt or whatever else you wont make much.
As far as scarp goes, if it is mixed you will always get WAY less than what ever the lower priced metal is. Lead might not be worth much per pound but it also the heaviest metal around, but when you have a pile of lead/copper jackets/dirt or whatever else you wont make much.
I would think it would be some what easy to melt down and separate the different materials, would it not be?
If I were to melt the lead out of the equation, then the copper would be left with just a bit of lead I would imagine?
Anyone know how easy or how hard this may be?
Thomas M-4
07-22-10, 11:35
Melting down and recasting lead bullets is common.
What are you wanting to make jacketed bullets?
If so http://www.corbins.com/
They have a kit that lets you use spent 22lr casing into .22 cal jacketed bullets.
Thomas M4:
I'm, not sure what I plan on doing with this info. I may just recycle the copper for some extra ammo cash, or I may try my hand at re-using the materials in new bullets; I am not quite sure yet.
I really just wanted to know if any of this is possible and how hard it may be. If I can collect a bunch of scrap from a few ranges and turn it into some cash or some new ammo; I will be very happy.
Thank for the link, I'll check it out.
I would think it would be some what easy to melt down and separate the different materials, would it not be?
If I were to melt the lead out of the equation, then the copper would be left with just a bit of lead I would imagine?
Anyone know how easy or how hard this may be?
Im sure it is easy, that doesnt mean you will get less money if it isnt separated. I can tell you have never been to a scrap yard.
Im sure it is easy, that doesnt mean you will get less money if it isnt separated. I can tell you have never been to a scrap yard.
Well your instincts are shit wrong, and the condescending tone of your reply very unwarranted and childish; I have been to plenty scrap yards, I understand that I will get less for an impure product (thats grade school knowledge buddy), nothing I said is to the contrary. I am just trying to figure out the logistics; how well I can seaparate, how easily it could be done, and if the cash trade off would be worth the time/effort. I am not arguing if I can get more for a pure product Vs. an impure one; that is quite obvious.
High Desert
07-22-10, 12:32
Thomas M4:
I'm, not sure what I plan on doing with this info. I may just recycle the copper for some extra ammo cash, or I may try my hand at re-using the materials in new bullets; I am not quite sure yet.
I really just wanted to know if any of this is possible and how hard it may be. If I can collect a bunch of scrap from a few ranges and turn it into some cash or some new ammo; I will be very happy.
Thank for the link, I'll check it out.
You mentioned that you shoot a bunch. Casting your own handgun bullets can save some good money on reloading costs. So you may want to consider that too versus just getting the cash.
Its always nice to be in a warm shop casting or reloading while the snow flies. :)
HD
You mentioned that you shoot a bunch. Casting your own handgun bullets can save some good money on reloading costs. So you may want to consider that too versus just getting the cash.
Its always nice to be in a warm shop casting or reloading while the snow flies. :)
HD
Thanks for the reccomendation; I just started reloading not much more than year ago, and I ordered a lead cast and equipment to start casting my own (Has yet to arrive). I talked to a few people who said the copper may be best suited to recycle; rather than buy the expensive equipment to melt it and re-form it; but I have yet to dealve into this too much, that is why I started this thread, for any info I can find from others who have been down this road; or know not to travel it from past experience.
Thanks a lot for your contribution, I appreciate it!
I used to manage a scrap yard...and honestly, I never once saw anyone do this.
We'd get spent brass in on occasion. And we'd take it unless we felt it was from the military base(s) in the area...and being Eastern NC we were within an hour from some bases that did a lot of shooting.
Outside of going to the yards management or head buyer and asking them...I dunno man. Lead and copper have different melting points of course and while I'm sure it would be somewhat "easy" to heat the metals up and separate, I'm not sure it'd really be worth it in the long runs.
For shooting purposes yeah, I'd be all over it. For resale...not so much. Mainly outside of ignorance on my own behalf of doing this, but also out of the nature of the beast of scrappin...it's fickle and not stable at all.
Oh, and yes there are different "grades" of copper. Not sure what your area does but we usually had a #1 Copper (nice, bright, full house/major electrical type stuff) then #2 Copper (smaller gauge, computer wiring and such) and there's a #3 Copper also but we'd only use that if we felt we couldn't get #2 for it at the mill(s).
The jackets should float to the top, just like wheel weights do when you melt those down. Just skim them off the top, flux the alloy and skim that off and cast clean ingots.
Jackets aren't pure copper. IIRC, bullet jackets are a mix of copper and zinc, but I could be wrong. Not sure if there's a scrap market for those. But there defintely is for lead.
GitmoSmoke
07-23-10, 12:22
I have melted scrap jacketed bullets down to recover the lead to cast bullets.
Copper jackets account for very little as a percentage of the bullets weight. If I remember correctly 230 gr. 45acp bullet jackets weighed about 5 gr. each, so 1400 bullet jackets per pound of copper. I didn’t do this enough to make saving jackets worth it to me.
If you can get a large scale operation going it might be cost effective, but I doubt it would make you very much profit if you were just dealing with a scrap yard.
With a casting pot it's very easy to melt down the lead & skim the scrap from the top, including dirt & rocks. If the copper is hot enough when you pull it out of the molten lead, the lead will run off & leave the copper fairly clean. You can use the lead to cast your own bullets or cast them into ingots and see if other bullet casters would be interested in them.
Most FMJs are open at the back. It'll be easy to melt them down as well.
I don't know if it would be worth the effort. I would go ahead & try it. The worst that could happen is that it's too much work for too little return. You'll learn something and expand your experience.
During one camping trip, my sons had dug a pile of bullets out of a bank my family has been shooting into since I can remember. I helped them make tools out of cans & showed them how to safely melt down the lead in the campfire & pour it into a mold we made. They took it to school and got extra credit for it
Thanks for all the info everyone. After I get some more equipment I will post my results here. May be a while though. Thanks again and if anyne else has anything more to add please do so...
With a casting pot it's very easy to melt down the lead & skim the scrap from the top, including dirt & rocks. If the copper is hot enough when you pull it out of the molten lead, the lead will run off & leave the copper fairly clean.
this is what i would think. i'm not a metal guy, buy i did pay attention in science class.
i know the backstop behind the 15-25m berms at our range is probably, by weight, mostly lead. bullets literally spill out all over the place. i bet somebody could possibly make some cash by running a front loader with a big ol' scoop through the 15 feet of lead shale, washing out all the mud, and melting it down. the range has been operational since 1930something, and nobody has ever done any large scale reclamation. i imagine a lot of ranges are the same.
this is what i would think. i'm not a metal guy, buy i did pay attention in science class.
i know the backstop behind the 15-25m berms at our range is probably, by weight, mostly lead. bullets literally spill out all over the place. i bet somebody could possibly make some cash by running a front loader with a big ol' scoop through the 15 feet of lead shale, washing out all the mud, and melting it down. the range has been operational since 1930something, and nobody has ever done any large scale reclamation. i imagine a lot of ranges are the same.
This is somewhat of the reasoning behind my questions. I figure if I go to each and every range in Colorado and 1/2 of them allow me to collect all the lead/copper they have. I might have a significant amount of metal; and could save a ton of money re-casting/reloading it, or sell it off for scrap cash, either way, I am eager to get moving on this one and find out how it works out; hard to find the time though with all the other stuff I do:jester:
Hi,
I've actually done quite a bit of this. I started casting lead bullets for cowboy action shooting a couple of years ago. Looking for a source of cheap lead I ran an ad on Craigslist asking to purchase scrap lead (wheel weights, etc.) I got a response from a great guy who's business is collecting scrap from ranges and selling it after he gets a basic load (40,000 lbs). I offered to pay him what the local recyclers were paying for scrap, but he dropped almost 600 lbs. on me for way under the going rate. Anyway, the actual smelting of the lead is somewhat more difficult than melting down wheel wheights or other scrap. The partially jacketed bullets melt out real easy but 15 or 20% of what I got was completely enclosed and they give the most trouble. You can hit these with a hammer and they will distort enough to melt out, but it's hardly worth the effort. You also have to be careful because the lead heats up inside the jackets and can squirt a skinny stream of melted lead right out of the pot. A cooking screen over the pot is highly recommended (ask your wife, I'm sure she'll give you hers). Have fun and be careful!
Suwannee Tim
08-17-10, 20:10
Recycling bullets is as old as shooting. It is not as easy as it seems. A batch of lead bullets melts just fine but jacketed bullets are another story. Many of the jackets remain cup shaped and many of them will retain lead. The jackets have to be rotated or agitated to get that lead out. The jackets are all but worthless as scrap. Once you have the lead you then have to master the casting process. If you are going to save enough money to buy a new rifle every month my guess is that you spend all your time right now shooting. Where are you going to find the time to master casting? Also, cast bullets are not compatible with the 5.56 or 7.62.
Recycling bullets is as old as shooting. It is not as easy as it seems. A batch of lead bullets melts just fine but jacketed bullets are another story. Many of the jackets remain cup shaped and many of them will retain lead. The jackets have to be rotated or agitated to get that lead out. The jackets are all but worthless as scrap. Once you have the lead you then have to master the casting process. If you are going to save enough money to buy a new rifle every month my guess is that you spend all your time right now shooting. Where are you going to find the time to master casting? Also, cast bullets are not compatible with the 5.56 or 7.62.It's not that difficult to cast bullets. It's not true that cast bullets are not compatible with the 5.56 or the 7.62. You just have to slow things down a bit. I know of one feller who casts bullets for his WWII rifles including the M1 Garand. (Can't think of his name. Stout feller, writes about guns.) Gotta keep the velocities down to around 2000 fps and play around with the loads until you find one you like. Keep in mind these loads are for plinking and hunting, not sending bad guys off to meet their makers
Suwannee Tim
08-18-10, 17:54
I have cast both pistol bullets and rifle bullets, the latter for 30-30, 30-06 and 300 magnum which was pretty much tilting at windmills. The 300 was doable, yes, practical, no. The others more practical. My standards for rifle bullets were pretty high and I seldom met them. I would have been thrilled to get consistent four inch groups at a hundred. Four inches at a hundred is trivial with modern jacketed bullets. So, it really depends on what you standards are and how much time and effort you want to spend doing it. I spent considerable time and effort with mixed results and I gave it up as not worth it. It really has to be a labor of love to make it work well. Jacketed bullets are so much easier to get good results from. I really don't think you want to fire cast bullets from an AR. Again, probably doable but not practical. I don't really know why you would want to except to prove that it can be done. Shooting a 223/5.56 at 2000 f.p.s. or less kind of defeats the purpose of the cartridge. 6.8 might be a more realistic proposition. Pistol bullets are a different matter. I was able to get three and four inch groups at fifty out of good bullets. That's pretty good and better than most people can shoot a pistol. It corresponds to six to eight at a hundred and well within the capability of good cast bullets. Still, it is time consuming and requires a substantial investment if you want good results. I hung with and corresponded with a number of accomplished cast bullet shooters, C. E. Harris just to drop one name. I do not remember ever hearing about a cast bullet 30-06 load that would work semi-auto in an M1. Single shot, sure, it could be done but kind of defeats the purpose of an M1. Here I'm talking about conventional cast bullets with grease grooves and lube. Paper patched bullets as done by Harris I thing could be shot in an M1 but that is really, really a labor of love. Just about everything I remember being done was done in bolt guns, levers and single shots.
Suwannee Tim
08-18-10, 18:10
Unburned tracers in the melting pot were always an adventure.
Unburned tracers in the melting pot were always an adventure.
Fourth of July in the old garage or basement eh?
Suwannee Tim
08-19-10, 19:20
Bullets with moisture inside the jacket can also cause problems. The hazards of steam explosions while melting lead are well known.
Did a small test run last night; went to the range and dug out a nice 5 gallon bucket of dirt/bullets. I washed them in a water/tumbler I made and dried them out in the sun for a few days. I had about 10-20 pounds of used bullets before melting them down, some jacketed mostly lead though. It was easy enough to melt down and separate the lead from copper, pouring the lead out of the jackets (Some lead stayed behind, but very little). I'm holding onto the copper jackets for now to see if I can possibly re-use them in the future.
I haven't cast the lead into new bullets yet (just ingots for now), I will do that this weekend if I can find the time, I just wanted to see how much labor the separation process would be. Not too bad really.
Just a bit of information, I plan to cast .22 lr, .38 special and .357 magnum rounds out of this lead, not 5.56/.223.
That is why I was interested in the copper as well, for rifle calibers. I'll have to wait on that for now and figure out the lead stuff 100% first.
Thanks for all the helpful info I really appreciate it!
I'll post my future findings here as well.
Take it easy everyone.
...I'm holding onto the copper jackets for now to see if I can possibly re-use them in the future...LOL! The used jackets are good for scrap. I don't think it'll be practical to attempt to reuse them for swaging as they've been distorted form firing, but if your determined enough, it's possible you'll prove me wrong :)
LOL! The used jackets are good for scrap. I don't think it'll be practical to attempt to reuse them for swaging as they've been distorted form firing, but if your determined enough, it's possible you'll prove me wrong :)
I'm not betting on anything, but I always enjoy the scientific process. :cool:
Not sure what I even want to try and do with them yet, but when it comes to me I'll have a new journey to take...
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