View Full Version : Administration looks for excuse to crack down on US Citizens
Business_Casual
07-23-10, 06:19
Finds jackpot - bearded high school kids!
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/suspected-american-terrorists-islamic-ties-causing-concern-law/story?id=11230885
B_C
I'm curious as to what this kid actually did, because the article is very long on fluff and very light on details. I certainly hope it's something more than just participating on an internet forum for all the resources that seem to have been used in building and bringing a case against him.
John_Wayne777
07-23-10, 08:00
I am by no means an expert on national security or intelligence and I'm certainly not arguing that it's impossible for somebody in government to do stupid things...
...but that being said, I do know that generally there is a lot more to the story than what we are presented with in the media.
arizonaranchman
07-23-10, 10:28
In this day and age I trust the government about as much as the criminals.
variablebinary
07-23-10, 12:10
I am by no means an expert on national security or intelligence and I'm certainly not arguing that it's impossible for somebody in government to do stupid things...
...but that being said, I do know that generally there is a lot more to the story than what we are presented with in the media.
If people saw half the threats and dangers to Americans that passed through our mission ops daily they wouldn't be able to sleep at night.
And media certainly has no idea.
If people saw half the threats and dangers to Americans that passed through our mission ops daily they wouldn't be able to sleep at night.
And media certainly has no idea.
Where are you operating that you see/hear such incredible dangers and threats to Americans?
variablebinary
07-23-10, 13:41
Where are you operating that you see/hear such incredible dangers and threats to Americans?
PM me your name and number. I'll have some people call you and tell you how to get here. Though, you'll need to block out a chunk of your calender :p
PM me your name and number. I'll have some people call you and tell you how to get here. Though, you'll need to block out a chunk of your calender :p
Ok, so you're thousands of miles away overseas. That answers my question.
RancidSumo
07-23-10, 14:00
Ok, so you're thousands of miles away overseas. That answers my question.
No look at his location. He's from Utah so those people he is talking about are missionaries :jester:
variablebinary
07-23-10, 14:15
No look at his location. He's from Utah so those people he is talking about are missionaries :jester:
Don't start. You're close. I'll send a bunch to your house :fie: :p
RancidSumo
07-23-10, 14:19
Don't start. You're close. I'll send a bunch to your house :fie: :p
They'll have to fight with the droves of them that are already here over my soul.
If people saw half the threats and dangers to Americans that passed through our mission ops daily they wouldn't be able to sleep at night.
And media certainly has no idea.
Thumbs up for that post.
ChicagoTex
07-24-10, 01:25
I hate to admit, but I honestly don't remember when maybe planning to join an alleged terrorist organization that doesn't operate in the jurisdiction of the United States became a crime.
When they find evidence he plans to commit an actual criminal act, then we can talk, until then... how is this shakedown defensible?
Reminds me of the 5 year old kid that was arrested by the Bush Administration because his name was on a "watch list"...
Actually it doesn't but the title of this thread seems to suggest that cracking down on U.S. citizens is something new with the current administration. I used the above example (an actual incident that took place within 6 months of 9/11) to illustrate that while you may have recently just turned on Fox News for the first time, government has been violating civil liberties for the last 150 years!!!
dwhitehorne
07-24-10, 05:53
I for one am glad they are catching some. I remember when I first saw this map and saw my hometown Herndon, VA prominently displayed. I do think it is interesting that this time last year terrorism no longer existed in the news until the underwear bomber and the Ft Hood shootings woke us back up. David
http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_Files/UN_Images/Terrorist.network.map.gif
Business_Casual
07-24-10, 06:12
Reminds me of the 5 year old kid that was arrested by the Bush Administration because his name was on a "watch list"...
Actually it doesn't but the title of this thread seems to suggest that cracking down on U.S. citizens is something new with the current administration. I used the above example (an actual incident that took place within 6 months of 9/11) to illustrate that while you may have recently just turned on Fox News for the first time, government has been violating civil liberties for the last 150 years!!!
You must be a lot of fun at cocktail parties.
The post was meant to be somewhat tongue in cheek, and to be infotainment. Apparently, the most dangerous terrorist we can find is a bearded high school kid that emails Al Queda affiliates inbetween algebra assignments.
The point is, the current administration thinks the way to fight the Islamic jihadi threat is to treat it is a criminal issue and that prosecuting Americans is a higher priority than finding and killing actual jihadis overseas, so that misguided high school kids in the US would have to play WoW instead.
B_C
rickrock305
07-24-10, 10:11
The point is, the current administration thinks the way to fight the Islamic jihadi threat is to treat it is a criminal issue and that prosecuting Americans is a higher priority than finding and killing actual jihadis overseas, so that misguided high school kids in the US would have to play WoW instead.
B_C
Maybe you didn't read the entire article, but we have people like Faizal Shahzad, David Headley, Najibullah Zazi, Colleen LaRose, Nidal Hassan, etc., right here in our country. Yes, dealing with terrorists in our midst already should be a priority over killing terrorists thousands of miles away. And when we're dealing with citizens of this country, they do have rights afforded to them. So what other choice do we have than to treat it as a criminal issue? Are you suggesting we just stripping their rights and start shipping off our own citizens to Guantanamo without due process?
This particular kid was actively trying to join Al Shabaab. IMO thats borderline treasonous and constitutes a bit more than a "misguided kid". Who's to say he wouldn't become the next Nidal Hassan? Not very much of a stretch for a kid actively trying to join a terrorist organization and posting death threats on the internet for people drawing mohammed.
Its not just this administration either. There have been many cases where I believe the government has gone too far, for example the Liberty City Seven who were basically coerced by the FBI into doing what they were charged with. But as far as this Chesser case, I believe he is more than just a misguided kid. He was actively trying to join a terrorist organization. He was posting death threats to people on the internet. He's obviously serious about his beliefs and should be dealt with as such.
"I hate to admit, but I honestly don't remember when maybe planning to join an alleged terrorist organization that doesn't operate in the jurisdiction of the United States became a crime."
ChicagoTex, it's been a crime for almost 10 years.
TITLE 18 United States Code § 2339A
§ 2339A. Providing material support to terrorists
(a) Offense.— Whoever provides material support or resources or conceals or disguises the nature, location, source, or ownership of material support or resources, knowing or intending that they are to be used in preparation for, or in carrying out, a violation of section 32, 37, 81, 175, 229, 351, 831, 842 (m) or (n), 844 (f) or (i), 930 (c), 956, 1091, 1114, 1116, 1203, 1361, 1362, 1363, 1366, 1751, 1992, 2155, 2156, 2280, 2281, 2332, 2332a, 2332b, 2332f, 2340A, or 2442 of this title, section 236 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284), section 46502 or 60123 (b) of title 49, or any offense listed in section 2332b (g)(5)(B) (except for sections 2339A and 2339B) or in preparation for, or in carrying out, the concealment of an escape from the commission of any such violation, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 15 years, or both, and, if the death of any person results, shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life. A violation of this section may be prosecuted in any Federal judicial district in which the underlying offense was committed, or in any other Federal judicial district as provided by law.
(b) Definitions.— As used in this section—
(1) the term “material support or resources” means any property, tangible or intangible, or service, including currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel (1 or more individuals who may be or include oneself), and transportation, except medicine or religious materials;
(2) the term “training” means instruction or teaching designed to impart a specific skill, as opposed to general knowledge; and
(3) the term “expert advice or assistance” means advice or assistance derived from scientific, technical or other specialized knowledge.
No look at his location. He's from Utah so those people he is talking about are missionaries :jester:
Thats a good one..:p
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-24-10, 11:24
In general, what I derive from the map is, live someplace cold or that has good BBQ and you'll do OK.
http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_Files/UN_Images/Terrorist.network.map.gif
You must be a lot of fun at cocktail parties. B_C
I actually rock at cocktail parties.
The point is, the current administration
B_C
This is where you fail and where you go from being "tongue and cheek" to completely partisan and guilty of exactly what you accuse me of. Which, is my only point. You act like this is something new, which it is not, which is why I speak up. I'm actually waiting for the thread that says: "Current administration guilty of inventing murder" or something equally as asinine.
Cheers!
Business_Casual
07-24-10, 13:12
It's True!
B_C
ChicagoTex
07-24-10, 17:18
TITLE 18 United States Code § 2339A
PATRIOT Act, as I suspected... :rolleyes::mad:
Even under this statute I think they're stretching to charge these kids that haven't even been able to join yet.
The gang bangers are still a bigger threat than any Islamic radicals. More people are killed every year by drunk drivers in this country than by radicals worldwide.
Not that it isn't a real threat, but not as big as one that it has been made to be by the government, it's just a great source of revenue and a way to pass new laws with out question because of "patriotism".
PATRIOT Act, as I suspected... :rolleyes::mad:
Even under this statute I think they're stretching to charge these kids that haven't even been able to join yet.
Wouldn't it just be attempted X or conspiracy to commit X in that case? I think so.
Conspiracy under 18USC371 requires two or more participants and an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy. The underlying crime must be an enumerated violation of U.S. Code.
The gang bangers are still a bigger threat than any Islamic radicals. More people are killed every year by drunk drivers in this country than by radicals worldwide.
Not that it isn't a real threat, but not as big as one that it has been made to be by the government, it's just a great source of revenue and a way to pass new laws with out question because of "patriotism".
Not disagreeing with you on your points but you bring something awesome up!
We need a: War On Dr. Dre! A War on The Town Drunk (with c-130s and all), A War On Teen Drivers, On Texting Drivers, On Pot Holes, On High Fructose Corn Syrup, On Gluten, On Star High School Quarter Backs That Knock Up Our Daughters, and of course, On Starbucks, and Wallmart.
Death to all things that make our lives less then cushy safe! God forbid we live our lives without fear, and take on the responsibilities of our own existence...
Not disagreeing with you on your points but you bring something awesome up!
We need a: War On Dr. Dre! A War on The Town Drunk (with c-130s and all), A War On Teen Drivers, On Texting Drivers, On Pot Holes, On High Fructose Corn Syrup, On Gluten, On Star High School Quarter Backs That Knock Up Our Daughters, and of course, On Starbucks, and Wallmart.
Death to all things that make our lives less then cushy safe! God forbid we live our lives without fear, and take on the responsibilities of our own existence...
Haha damn Mac5.56....spot on!!!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.