Loading a side-saddle [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

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platoonDaddy

07-23-10, 22:04

I have always been taught that the brass is always facing down, note the attached picture.

Understand that they are two different loads, is that their way of not confusing the loads?

IrishDevil

07-23-10, 23:42

Correct, it's easier to differentiate. Also, I like to have buckshot rims bottom side and slug rims top side. Looks like they have it the same way in the photo.

Patrick Aherne

07-23-10, 23:57

Brass down works great for sitting in your closet, looking all tactical. Try running around, shooting and moving and you will leave brass-down shells like little Hansel and Gretel breadcrumbs all over the place. For serious use, brass up is the only way to go.

NCPatrolAR

07-24-10, 00:09

Brass up is pretty much a requirement when using nylon shell holders or the old Tac Star side saddles. I've been running brass down in the Mesa Tactical side saddles with no incidents of shells falling free.

Also I tend to keep my sidesaddles full of the same load as to limit the chances of putting the wrong payload in the gun.

IrishDevil

07-24-10, 02:23

When I've used side saddles in 3-gun, I always run brass down for shot, up for slugs. Never had a problem, and there is plenty of running and gunning in 3-gun. I'd say appreciably more than most users will see.

The only time I've seen dropped shells from side saddles, it's either a worn out Tac-Star or a Mesa. When I ran side saddles for 3-Gun I was replacing the Tac-Star twice a year, so they certainly have a short service life.

terrymo

07-24-10, 07:55

I have always had my sidesaddle loaded brass down. The most recent shotgun training I took was from ITTS. The instructor strongly encouraged brass up. His thought was why give Mr. Murphy and gravity more of a chance than they deserve. Although I was resistant to it intitally I ended up not being any slower loading from the sidesaddle brass up after a couple of days. I am still training this way and have not made a final decision. For my simple mind, I find it easier under stress to not have buck and slug mixed in any one location.

DMR

07-24-10, 08:12

There is alot of debate on the topic and several shotgun loading methods are built around shell placement. We recommend 3 Gun Gear sidesaddles to most of our customers, although I also carry Mesa. The 3 Gun are inexpensive and quickly removeable (velcroed on). They come canted so the shells are slightly quicker to load to the loading port if brass down. I see that as the prefered method, with loading to the exection port being an emergancy technic. Given a sidearm I would transition and seek cover vs the load to the ejection port for round after round.

I keep most of my load front to rear brass down, the last two-three rounds are brass up to better load to the ejection port and because they are usualy slugs. This means the majority of my shells are positioned to support my primary loading method.

The 3 Gun are inexpensive enough you can outfit multiple shotguns for the cost of one Mesa also. And finaly they are the OEM for the sidesaddle on the Remington MCS.

m24shooter

07-24-10, 08:53

The first shotgun class I took back in 96 was buck at the front brass down with slugs at the rear brass up. The brass up was done to have tactile differentiation between different loads.
Then I had some classes that were all brass oriented the same way, down. This was done for speed of reloading through economy of motion.
Then I had some classes (and all since then) that were brass up, buck and slug. This was regardless of Mesa or TacStar. This was to make sure your shells didn't fall out. "Brass to the grass means brass in the grass," was commonly said.
With those two types of carriers the shells can migrate out under recoil or movement. If the shotgun has been in direct sunlight for several hours in a hot environment or stowed in a vehicle this is more likely to happen. Especially if the shells are left in the carrier for a long period of time.
The Mesa fix is to replace the tubing inside the shell carrier, or add a stiffener inside the tube. The TacStar fix is to remove the shells for a couple of days or replace the unit.
With the elastic units such as DMR suggests, this seems to be less of a problem, although as with anything else it will eventually get to the point that it too will no longer retain shells. It just seems to take a lot longer and works better if you want to carry brass down than either of the other two. Having just come into possession of this type of carrier, I'm looking forward to seeing just how well it does.
Brass down is slightly faster for loading through the loading port. It saves you a slight movement. This is at the risk of possibly reaching for reloads and not having them there with the shells having fallen out of the carrier.
Brass up is a little slower in that you have to make a slightly longer motion/extra step to load through the loading port, which is the price of keeping your rounds in a more secure orientation.
People are going to argue this forever, and have been.

platoonDaddy

07-24-10, 09:21

Thanks, really great points.

Taking a defensive shotgun class shortly and will be interesting too see what they recommend for their class.

Again thanks for all the input

Rosco Benson

07-24-10, 09:23

It is worth noting that Hans Vang has a "sidesaddle" type shellholder available now. Hans knows shotguns, so I'm sure it is a good piece of kit.

https://vangcomp.com/gun_accessories.html

I went to the TacStar 4-rounds Sidesaddles some time back. They impact the feel and balance of the shotgun less. I'll accept the lesser capacity for my uses.

Rosco

dbrowne1

07-24-10, 10:23

I try to keep it as simple as possible and have heeded the wisdom of those who have seen "brass down" shells go flying out during use. The shotgun is complicated enough already under stress, I don't see myself being able to remember and apply brass up versus brass down for this load or that load.

4 round sidesaddle, all brass-up Brenneke slugs to select slug if needed. Flite control buck in the gun.

As an aside, one of the reasons why ITTS recommends brass up is that the LAPD (where Scott Reitz of ITTS policed and trained) had actual issues with brass down guns losing rounds during deployment of shotguns.

jklaughrey

07-24-10, 10:33

I usually just run and gun with extra shells btw my teeth. J/K, I think brass down is quicker, but brass up is more secure. Although the new design in side saddles is making the gravity issue...well less of an issue.

terrymo

07-24-10, 11:32

I ran a Mesa side saddle for a couple of years without issues, but after seeing 4 of them shear their front mounting hardware off the receiver of 870's in training, I switched to the VangComp DSAC. Not sure if they were improperly tightened in 3 of the cases, but in one L.E. training an officer who is credible said his was properly installed with blue loctite and checked at the start of the 4 day course. His front mounting hardware sheared off and the side saddle was spinning from recoil during a rolling thunder drill. Not saying Mesa does not make good products since this is a small sample of failures and they may have been installed incorrectly, but something to be aware of.

standsalone

07-24-10, 11:42

anything can get sheared off if you bang it hard enough... I have seen buck privates drop m4's and shear off all kinds of shit...

terrymo

07-24-10, 11:54

anything can get sheared off if you bang it hard enough... I have seen buck privates drop m4's and shear off all kinds of shit...

Agreed, cops are no less notorious for breaking things...just to clarify these were sheared/broken from continued recoil

terrymo

07-24-10, 12:23

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/terrymo/100_0355.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/terrymo/100_0354.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/terrymo/100_0353.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/terrymo/100_0352.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/terrymo/100_0351.jpg

m24shooter

07-24-10, 15:02

anything can get sheared off if you bang it hard enough... I have seen buck privates drop m4's and shear off all kinds of shit...
While that is true, the Mesa connectors have been an issue that's been reported. As I understand it, they're outsource for the connector hardware had a bad run. As such, the connectors have sheared/fractured. They also have had issues getting their 930 connectors to work.

DarwinsLilHelper

07-24-10, 19:15

I don't put them brass up or brass down.

Side saddles are one of the biggest pieces of useless Tacticool voodoo out there.

A.) They ruin the balance and pointing characteristics of a weapon that was always meant to be Rapidly employed and aimed at CQB distances, where getting the first accurate shot off is paramount.

B.) Side Saddles are about the slowest and unsteady-est method of reloading a shot gun there is.

C.) Side Saddles impede proper slug transition loading from either the top or the bottom.

D.) Side Saddles impede the rapid employment of the weapon from the weak side muzzle down sling carry position. (You can talk about single point slings all you want, But that old bastard, who's pretty salty with the shotgun, who's innocently and non threateningly carrying that 18" shotgun muzzle down on the weak side, on a conventional sling, sling swivel about mid stock, is the guy you really need to watch. Because He'll slap that thing up and kill two or three of you before your handguns clears the holster.)

I've always had this theory that people just think hanging shotgun shells on the side of a shotgun just makes it look more like a tacticool deadly weapon, rather than like Elmer Fudd's turkey gun and that looking scary tacticool seems to be really important to a lot of people on the Gun Webz.

Fact is...While it doesn't look nearly as tacticool. An Eagle (Site Sponser) Active Shooter Rig. The one with just the webbing, with a Couple of MOLLE dump bags stuck on it. One full of Buck and one full of Slugs. is much much Faster. Carries substantially more ammo and you can even add some velcro to the back and fold up the sling...For those of you that just have to hang it on the shotgun because you can't conceive of keeping track of your gear any other way.

Now I'm sure, that someone will be along shortly to tell me that Shotgun Yoda, Sensi Billy Bob at the uber Tacticool training course says Side Saddles are the greatest thing since the invention of the pump action. Which is fine...But the old shotgun salt who taught me. Imparted this tiny bit of wisdom...and now I'm imparting it to you. "I don't give a **** if Han's Vang is selling them...Hans Vang's got a house payment and a car payment like everybody else and knows there's a demand."

;)

jklaughrey

07-24-10, 20:31

Keep in mind though your post makes some valid points Darwin, some of us are issued weapons in dept configurations which we can't modify. Some weapons we have are equipped with side saddles, some with speed feed stocks. All are mission capable and configured for specific duties. But we will keep in mind your pearls.

m24shooter

07-24-10, 21:12

Side saddles are one of the biggest pieces of useless Tacticool voodoo out there.
That's your opinion, which is fine.
Here's mine.

A.) They ruin the balance and pointing characteristics of a weapon that was always meant to be Rapidly employed and aimed at CQB distances, where getting the first accurate shot off is paramount.
In using the 4 and 6 round sidesaddles, I've never found this to be an issue.

B.) Side Saddles are about the slowest and unsteady-est method of reloading a shot gun there is.
It is far from the slowest and usteady-est. It is right there on the shotgun, mounted in very close proximity to the loading port. It is in the same position and the same place every time. That may not be the case with belts, pouches, bags, pockets, and slings.

C.) Side Saddles impede proper slug transition loading from either the top or the bottom.
Since I've trained to do just that with the sidesaddle, I have no idea how this is true.

D.) Side Saddles impede the rapid employment of the weapon from the weak side muzzle down sling carry position.
Again, absolutely not my experience with them. If I'm slung with a shotgun, it is in African carry. With a sidesaddle. And without this impediment that you've found.

(You can talk about single point slings all you want, But that old bastard, who's pretty salty with the shotgun, who's innocently and non threateningly carrying that 18" shotgun muzzle down on the weak side, on a conventional sling, sling swivel about mid stock, is the guy you really need to watch. Because He'll slap that thing up and kill two or three of you before your handguns clears the holster.)
I have no idea what this prose relates to.

I've always had this theory that people just think hanging shotgun shells on the side of a shotgun just makes it look more like a tacticool deadly weapon, rather than like Elmer Fudd's turkey gun and that looking scary tacticool seems to be really important to a lot of people on the Gun Webz.
I honestly don't give a damn what my shotgun looks like. I care what it acts like. I care that it works. I care that whatever is added to or taken from it serves a functional purpose. That's it.

Fact is...While it doesn't look nearly as tacticool. An Eagle (Site Sponser) Active Shooter Rig. The one with just the webbing, with a Couple of MOLLE dump bags stuck on it. One full of Buck and one full of Slugs.
I have an AS bag. But I don't use it as the primary reload. First, it has to be carried. That means I have to take the time to grab it. If I have that time, great. I may not. Furthermore, I now have a bag hanging off a shoulder that may or not may not stay with me if I have to move around a lot. It more than likely will not be in the same place, unless I take more time to secure it to my belt. I don't like those situations.
In addition, the sidesaddle is always on the gun. I'll always have a reload without having to take any further action.

is much much Faster.
Debatable at best, but I disagree.

Carries substantially more ammo and you can even add some velcro to the back and fold up the sling...For those of you that just have to hang it on the shotgun because you can't conceive of keeping track of your gear any other way.
Keeping ammo on the shotgun has less to do with not being able to master the level of intellect required to pick up a bag and more to do with wanting to always have a reload available without any additional steps. I'd rather set it so that I can't get it wrong as opposed to just managing to get it right.

Now I'm sure, that someone will be along shortly to tell me that Shotgun Yoda, Sensi Billy Bob at the uber Tacticool training course says Side Saddles are the greatest thing since the invention of the pump action. Which is fine...But the old shotgun salt who taught me. Imparted this tiny bit of wisdom...and now I'm imparting it to you. "I don't give a **** if Han's Vang is selling them...Hans Vang's got a house payment and a car payment like everybody else and knows there's a demand."

;)
Again nice prose, but the fact is sidesaddles serve a purpose and they work. Maybe not for you, and whatever shotgun sage it is you follow. If you don't want to use one, that's fine. But I don't think it is necessary to belittle those that do, or attribute them as geardos or incapable of keeping track of their gear.

jklaughrey

07-24-10, 21:19

+1 bring what you have be trained to use it!

standsalone

07-24-10, 21:54

NCPatrolAR

07-24-10, 22:31

Some of my points have already been covered by other posters; but here's my take on it.

A.) They ruin the balance and pointing characteristics of a weapon that was always meant to be Rapidly employed and aimed at CQB distances, where getting the first accurate shot off is paramount.

I, along with countless others, havent encountered this. I use a non-side saddle'ed gun at work, but my training and personal guns have them. I dont see an difference in how any of the guns manuver.

B.) Side Saddles are about the slowest and unsteady-est method of reloading a shot gun there is.

My expereince doesnt agree with this. How can having shells next to the loading port be slower than going to your belt, a pouch, etc? From a pure economy of motion perspective; your hand moves a great deal less when reloading from the side saddle versus other methods.

C.) Side Saddles impede proper slug transition loading from either the top or the bottom.

You have a slight point if you are wanting to go across the top of the gun and load through the ejection port. I do all of my reloading through the bottom of the gun, so it isnt an issue for me and how I run the gun.

D.) Side Saddles impede the rapid employment of the weapon from the weak side muzzle down sling carry position.

How?

(You can talk about single point slings all you want,

Most people are more likely to talk about adjustable two point slings; not single points. ;)

But that old bastard, who's pretty salty with the shotgun, who's innocently and non threateningly carrying that 18" shotgun muzzle down on the weak side, on a conventional sling, sling swivel about mid stock, is the guy you really need to watch. Because He'll slap that thing up and kill two or three of you before your handguns clears the holster.)

Lets leave crap like this out of the discussion. It isnt adding anything and in reality isnt helping your case any.

I've always had this theory that people just think hanging shotgun shells on the side of a shotgun just makes it look more like a tacticool deadly weapon, rather than like Elmer Fudd's turkey gun and that looking scary tacticool seems to be really important to a lot of people on the Gun Webz.

I've always had this theory that people that dont understand how to properly employ items have a tendency to write them off as being "tacticool".

The one with just the webbing, with a Couple of MOLLE dump bags stuck on it. One full of Buck and one full of Slugs. is much much Faster.

Again I ask; how? With the side saddle your hand moves several inches and you know exactly how the shells are oriented. If using pouches like you are speaking of; your hand has to travel several feet to reload the gun and since the shells are loose in your pouch; you are never sure of the orientation of the shell when you grab for it. If you have the pouch sealed; it slows the reload that much more.

Carries substantially more ammo

True and thats the reason we want something like that to carry supplemental ammo for topping off the sidesaddle or reloading the gun during lulls.

and you can even add some velcro to the back and fold up the sling...For those of you that just have to hang it on the shotgun because you can't conceive of keeping track of your gear any other way.

:nono: There goes another dip in the credibility.

Now I'm sure, that someone will be along shortly to tell me that Shotgun Yoda, Sensi Billy Bob at the uber Tacticool training course says Side Saddles are the greatest thing since the invention of the pump action. Which is fine...But the old shotgun salt who taught me. Imparted this tiny bit of wisdom...and now I'm imparting it to you. "I don't give a **** if Han's Vang is selling them...Hans Vang's got a house payment and a car payment like everybody else and knows there's a demand."

;)

Hmmmmm; listen to the advice of professional trainers skilled in the use of the shotgun, factor in personal expereince, etc versus listening to some random guy on the internet with some off the wall comments? Yeah; I think I'll default to the Shotgun Yodas. :D

Oh and let me add this............................ dont start trolling the thread.

ForTehNguyen

07-24-10, 22:59

I dont claim to be a tactical yoda, but heres me screwing around with a reload drill. I dont see how not using a side saddle is going to be faster. It would be a lot slower with a pouch. I haven't had any balance or pointing issues with a side saddle. I've done faster times on a drill like this, but we only did one take for this video. I'm not claiming this is the fastest, this is just the way I trained and it seems to work good. If theres a better way, I have an open mind and I will consider it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw8GkiWs3nE

terrymo

07-25-10, 02:37

DarwinsLilHelper, if you have deployed a shotgun in harms way in the military, as a peace officer, or in a similar occupation, please give us some real world examples of how a side saddle was or would have been be detrimental to you in the specific scenarios you encountered first hand.

Rosco Benson

07-25-10, 08:34

But that old bastard, who's pretty salty with the shotgun, who's innocently and non threateningly carrying that 18" shotgun muzzle down on the weak side, on a conventional sling, sling swivel about mid stock, is the guy you really need to watch. Because He'll slap that thing up and kill two or three of you before your handguns clears the holster.)

If the shotgun-toting fellow is a threat, why would anyone wait for him to start trying to deploy his shotgun before just shooting him? Maybe ol' salty bastard has watched too many westerns.

But the old shotgun salt who taught me. Imparted this tiny bit of wisdom...and now I'm imparting it to you. "I don't give a **** if Han's Vang is selling them...Hans Vang's got a house payment and a car payment like everybody else and knows there's a demand."

Agreed. That is a TINY bit of wisdom.

Rosco

Jamiecov

07-25-10, 09:11

I keep the brass at the top, shell down, but then I combat reload over the top, and my hand goes over the top sliding fore-stock forward, to chamber the shell. However, my buddy, whose hands are a bit smaller then mine, can't hold the shell in his palm facing downwards, so he has to reach under, and so keeps the brass at the bottom. So I would probably try both and see what works best for you.

shootist~

07-25-10, 12:07

Either way "should" work so long as you keep things consistent and use the side ammo saddle first (if loaded brass down). This could also be dependent on the shotgun and ammo used. Pump guns with full power loads generate a lot of recoil (duh). And recoil is your enemy in more ways than one.

I'm not a LEO, but I've been a serious shotgun competitor in various venues for a few decades. For me it's five OO buck - brass down + one slug - brass up; but in my case the shotgun stays unloaded in the front pew of the safe. It's not the primary. The side saddle would give me a quick 1st load and it's always transported or stored in the same condition. Firearm is a M1S90 with 8+2 capacity and I load Federal tactical reduced recoil buck and slugs.

In a match (or training from an unloaded start), the side saddle gets used first due to better loading speed and better dexterity under stress. SS ammo can fall out if enough rounds are fired, but from fully loaded I've never* had a problem if using the side saddle ammo as the next in. [*The exception is starting with a full load of 9 or 10 slugs in the gun.]

Obviously you need to keep the side saddle clear of any lube and degrease if in doubt. And see what actually works with live fire at the range.

556A2

07-25-10, 14:45

Is 3-Gun Gear the only manufacturer that makes a velco attachment side-saddle?

I'd really like one like that, but that only holds 4 or 5 shells since I use field length forends.

Shane1

07-26-10, 12:46

My officers which carry a shotgun are all brass up. For me, it lessens the chance of them falling out. When the sidesaddle starts dropping rounds, it gets replaced. Thier Sidesaddles are loaded with Slugs only. Extra 00/ Slugs are carried on thier plate carriers or a stock pack if they chose to add it. They have the option of having some type of BOB with spare issued/approved shotty ammo in it also. In fact, I encourage them to carry extra ammo. Of course, I also encourage them to get a patrol rifle . :D

platoonDaddy

07-28-10, 06:52

Is 3-Gun Gear the only manufacturer that makes a velco attachment side-saddle?

Vang has a velco attachment side-saddle (6 shells)

https://vangcomp.com/gun_accessories.html

m24shooter

07-28-10, 09:59

Vang has a velco attachment side-saddle (6 shells)

https://vangcomp.com/gun_accessories.html
Be advised the two attach in different ways. The 3 Gun/Remington MCS type uses the adhesive backed Velcro to attach directly to the shotgun, while the Vang uses a plate that the Velcro is stuck to which is then held on with screws to the shotgun.

DMR

07-28-10, 11:37

Is 3-Gun Gear the only manufacturer that makes a velco attachment side-saddle?

I'd really like one like that, but that only holds 4 or 5 shells since I use field length forends.

Mark will custom make his side saddles I believe. He was going to do a run of 6 loop Mossberg ones for one of our customers, but the customer has not panned out yet.

chriskc04

07-28-10, 21:52

Here is what works for me. I have the Mesa 6 shell saddle. In the spot closest to the barrel, I have a round brass up. The next spot is empty. The next four are brass down.

My thinking is that if I run dry, I can grab the forward round, go over the top and feed it into the ejection port in a hurry. The empty spot gives me some room to work with as I'm guessing this will be one of those "oh shit" moments. The rest are brass down for loading the tube.

I do a little IPSC every month, but am not LE or MIL.

LHS

07-29-10, 00:36

I don't put them brass up or brass down.

Side saddles are one of the biggest pieces of useless Tacticool voodoo out there.

Wow... I don't quite know how to respond to this. But I'll give it a try...

A.) They ruin the balance and pointing characteristics of a weapon that was always meant to be Rapidly employed and aimed at CQB distances, where getting the first accurate shot off is paramount.

I've been running shotguns since I was a kid, and I've never had a problem with a sidesaddle ruining the balance or pointing of a shotgun. The weight is near the center of mass. If you find that the weight of four 12-gauge shells impedes your ability to run the weapon properly, then I could suggest some exercise routines to strengthen your arms.

B.) Side Saddles are about the slowest and unsteady-est method of reloading a shot gun there is.

I would counter that they are the fastest and easiest method I've used. They're faster than butt-cuff shell holders, sling shell holders (you want to talk about ruining a weapon's handling characteristics, sling shell holders are the best way to do it), belt shell holders, vests, etc etc ad nauseum.

C.) Side Saddles impede proper slug transition loading from either the top or the bottom.

WTF? Pull slug from sidesaddle. Insert into magazine. Cycle action. Problem solved. Not that difficult.

D.) Side Saddles impede the rapid employment of the weapon from the weak side muzzle down sling carry position. (You can talk about single point slings all you want, But that old bastard, who's pretty salty with the shotgun, who's innocently and non threateningly carrying that 18" shotgun muzzle down on the weak side, on a conventional sling, sling swivel about mid stock, is the guy you really need to watch. Because He'll slap that thing up and kill two or three of you before your handguns clears the holster.)

Again, WTF? I've run shotguns with conventional two-point carry straps and single-point slings both, and never had an issue with the sidesaddle getting in the way of either. The only sling it might tangle with would be a three-point HK-style sling, and who uses those at all these days, much less on a shotgun?

I've always had this theory that people just think hanging shotgun shells on the side of a shotgun just makes it look more like a tacticool deadly weapon, rather than like Elmer Fudd's turkey gun and that looking scary tacticool seems to be really important to a lot of people on the Gun Webz.

I've always had this theory that the shotgun's two major flaws are its limited range and limited ammo capacity. Having four or six extra shells attached to the weapon, in easy reach of my support hand for either select-slug or emergency reloads, quite possibly doubles my ammo capacity, and allows me to extend the range of the shotgun via slugs.

Fact is...While it doesn't look nearly as tacticool. An Eagle (Site Sponser) Active Shooter Rig. The one with just the webbing, with a Couple of MOLLE dump bags stuck on it. One full of Buck and one full of Slugs. is much much Faster. Carries substantially more ammo and you can even add some velcro to the back and fold up the sling...For those of you that just have to hang it on the shotgun because you can't conceive of keeping track of your gear any other way.

While I agree you could carry more ammo that way, dump pouches are hardly ideal. I've seen more than one student, under the basic low-level stress of a training course, fumble a reload out of a dump pouch, including trying to load the shells into the magazine backwards. Having the shells in a known orientation reduces the chances of FUBARing the reload significantly, and increases the speed of the reload since you don't have to figure out the orientation, or correct it. Eagle makes a dedicated shotgun patrol bandoleer that is quite useful, especially for a bedside gun or grab-and-go setup, but simply tossing loose shells into a dump pouch went the way of the dodo around 1917.

Now I'm sure, that someone will be along shortly to tell me that Shotgun Yoda, Sensi Billy Bob at the uber Tacticool training course says Side Saddles are the greatest thing since the invention of the pump action. Which is fine...But the old shotgun salt who taught me. Imparted this tiny bit of wisdom...and now I'm imparting it to you. "I don't give a **** if Han's Vang is selling them...Hans Vang's got a house payment and a car payment like everybody else and knows there's a demand."
;)

When I asked the old shotgun salt who taught me, why he kept going to classes despite all the skill and experience he had, he simply said, "Nobody can teach you everything, but everyone can teach you something." You seem to have a grudge against anyone who tries to teach others some of their accumulated knowledge. Fact is, there are some shitty trainers out there who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, but there are also some truly high-speed guys who have a lot to teach you, if only you'll listen. The best ones don't insist you follow their doctrine, and will tell you up front that you should take from them what works, and leave the rest. Is it so hard to believe that someone might know more about a given subject than you do?

Now, that said, I'll move on to the OP's question.

I've seen several ways to run the sidesaddle. Several folks I know have ragged on shells-down, because under stress and constant movement, the shells can fall out. I've never had this happen, but enough trustworthy and experienced people have seen it that I don't automatically discount the phenomenon.

I've seen half up, half down, sometimes all the same type of shell, and sometimes separating buck from slug. If this works for you, go for it.

My personal setup is alternating up and down, with the front-most shell brass-up. This puts a space between the shell rims, letting my big paws get a grip more easily. Having shells in both orientation lets me reload the magazine with the bottom shells, and do emergency reloads through the ejection port with the top shells. Since my shotgun is purely a home-defense weapon, I don't carry slugs on it, but if you're using it for a patrol weapon you might want to keep some in the sidesaddle.

DMR

07-29-10, 05:22

A small point I left out. The other reason the last two shells in my side saddle are brass up is because I shoot left handed. I found that often when brass down the last shell would hit my Trigger finger under recoil.

http://pro-patria.us/Shotgun/500pro.gif

chriskc04

07-29-10, 09:07

Man, this Darwin guy... I've seen some of his other posts. I'm left wondering why a guy who is such an obvious pro bothers to show us hacks the light. :neo:

Jerry R

07-30-10, 20:28

The two HD shotguns (870 and 1187) are rigged the same - 20" Deer Barrel with Rifle Sights, 8 Shot Choate tube; only difference is the 1187 has a TLR-1 with tape switch on the tube.

Five #4 Buck in the tube, chamber empty
Four Slugs in a Tac-Star side saddle - Brass on top
Five 00 Buck in a Butt Cuff - Brass on top

Seems to handle well for me, and (so far) reloads are not a problem.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/pdogkilr/Firearms/Shotguns/IMG_1172Rem-1187300DPISize1024.jpg