View Full Version : need help with troy folding battle sights
ok...i have a s&w m&p 15t with troy BUIS and an eotech 512...i let the shop boresight the gun...shot it under 500 rds now and laser boresighted 2 more times and still can't get it sighted in...i have had zero problems laser boresighting my remington 700 with leupold mk iii scope or the m&p 15/22 that i bought last weekend...iron sights and the scope are now dead on with it and it takes about 10 rds to get it dead nuts on after lasering it at home...just cannot seem to get it right on the .223...i'm gonna put the 15/22 scope on the .223 and laser it tomorrow and see if i can get it dialed in with the scope...this way i will know its an issue with me, the BUIS and the eotech...i think the front post is too high and the gunshop didn't give me the tool for adjusting the front post...the rear is windage only, no elevation...
anybody got ideas??? i went through 180 rds in two days and got more and more frustrated as the days went on...at 25 and 50 yds nevertheless!!! i have other people telling me it's the gun but i want to exhaust all of my efforts before blaming the weapon...i've never had a gun kick my ass like this one has!!!
I think you forgot to mention where it is hitting...?
If your elevation is the problem then, yes, you do need to adjust the front post. You don't need a special tool. Just push the little spring loaded pin down with the tip of a bullet and use a needle nose pliers to turn it (preferably wrapped in something like masking tape so you don't mar the sight). Rightie tightie (down) leftie loosie (up).
I just got my M&P15PSX with M&P Troy folding battle sights not too long ago. We bore sighted it at 20-25 yards at the store, and then it took me about 40 rounds, shooting 4 shot groups, to get dialed in at 50.
it's all over the place...high/left...high/rt...missing the paper, hell i am lucky to hit the dirt when shooting at the ground...
spamsammich
07-25-10, 15:11
sounds like a loose barrel nut rather than a sight problem if your sights are on tight. get the gun on paper at 7 yards, then 25, then 50.
yeah, i was planning on the short distance sighting in next as well...i just finished laser boresighting the 15/22 and the .223 now and they both look good again...so its off to the range again...
i was going to do the bow "walk back method" that i use on my bow sights to get this thing straightened out...thanks for the help...i did figure out the front post and dropped it down quite a bit, so we'll have to see what happens next!!!
I have Troy sights on my SR-556. The last time I was at the range I could not raise the point of impact at 50 yds (hitting 8"low). when I had a chance to look at it the tool would not stay in the front sight. Removed the post to check out the the post hight. and found I could screw the post all the way down with out the spring. Put it back together with the spring in place and found the problem was I could not get enough leverage to keep the sight adjusting tool in place, rigged the tool with a knob, now I can keep it in the holes.
Verify your sights are on securely, if you are a competent shooter, and are familiar with how to sight in an AR15, the next issue would sound mechanical.
Not to sound condescending, but have you read the manual? If not: http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/other/S&W_M&P15_Rifle_Manual.pdf
Start with irons at 25 yards. Use a large target. Shoot from the prone or bench. Point of impact should be about 1.5" low. Then, move to 50 yards and fine tune your final zero.
With the irons set, adjust the EOtech optic so that the center dot is on the tip of the front sight post. Check at 25 yards and finalize with a 50 yard zero.
If that does not work, have someone else shoot the gun. If the does not work, send it in for service.
Not to sound condescending, but have you read the manual? If not: http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/other/S&W_M&P15_Rifle_Manual.pdf
Start with irons at 25 yards. Use a large target. Shoot from the prone or bench. Point of impact should be about 1.5" low. Then, move to 50 yards and fine tune your final zero.
With the irons set, adjust the EOtech optic so that the center dot is on the tip of the front sight post. Check at 25 yards and finalize with a 50 yard zero.
If that does not work, have someone else shoot the gun. If the does not work, send it in for service.
not sounding condescending, but all of the above has been tried...i have been shooting the M16/AR15 platform since '91, my wife has been shooting these since '86...so we do have a little experience with them...my dad is a pre-nam Navy vet and i also had a buddy of mine shoot it as well...
these new fangled folding battle sights are my issue i believe, as the 15/22 has elevation and windage adjust on the rear and i was able to get them sighted in within 5 minutes of breaking it out of the box...
hopefully the front post adjustment i did will cure the issues when i sight it in at 7, 25 and then 50...but i won't know more until i get to the range next weekend...thanks for all of the comments, i knew where to place my problems to get answers!!!
The Troy sights are an excellent product. Love mine. Keep us informed. Haven't heard of any probs. with them before; includes discussions with some high speed/low drag guys. Make sure you have Loctite(blue) on the threads.
The Troy sights are an excellent product. Love mine. Keep us informed. Haven't heard of any probs. with them before; includes discussions with some high speed/low drag guys. Make sure you have Loctite(blue) on the threads.
yeah, that's why i think it's me!!! the wierd thing is that when i was shooting 150 plus yds it was still way high, that's why i was stumped...it shot high close in and high out to beyond 150...i'll get it this weekend for sure!!! thanks for all the comments!!!
Are you sure they are genuine Troy sights and/or what is the front sight mounted to?
Try removing the front and rear sight and placing the top rail of the upper on a peice of glass (long mirrors work good) to see if the fore-end rail is canted and /or otherwise not in proper alignment with the receiver's top rail.
Are they HK or M4 style? How are you aligning the sights when you shoot?
they are m4 style sights...aligning the front in the middle of the peep, center of target on top of the front post...i sighted the scope to drill bullseyes at 25yds and 50yds today, using a 3x9x40 scope($60 @dicks)...at a hundred, it was still not poking good groups like i get with my 30-06 with a leupold on it, may need to change the scope for a better one...
back to the sights...the adjustment to the front sight, bringing it up about 4 turns definately helped!!! i was shooting very well at 25 and 50 with the irons and then went to the eotech 512...worked great!!! but when i went to 100, i'm still poking holes the size of a pie plate, and that isn't good enough for me...
the rear iron is about a 1/4" from the edge of the right side though...if i go to the irons from the 15/22 with windage and elevation on the rear(old style/non-folding carry handle style) it's dead on centerline of the rifle...
I would look into how your front sight is mounted, what it is mounted to and it's relationship to the barrel.
everything looks down the middle of the barrel...the front sight is mounted to the top rail, it is a m&p 15 tactical with s&w insignia troy folding battle sights...
if i go dead down the center on the rear sight, it puts me off to the left of the target...this is holding the front sight perfectly centered into the large peep...i flipped to the small peep and it seemed to help me concentrate more on the front post on the shorter distances, though i know it's for the long distance shooting...i just think that i shoot more with my head down and to the right of center which moves the rear sight right of center...holding my head up to center with my nose on the charging handle and the stock collapsed does not work for me for comfortability...i like to have that stock fully extended and arms in a comfortable shooting position...i guess i could try to keep my head up and centered, thus moving my eye to the center of the weapon...it's tough to change a practice that is enforced through years of shooting that way...
co-witnessing the eotech512 to it and it sits atop the front post flawlessly...the system shoots well, just gotta get used to the sight being on the right side a bit and shoot more...practice will get me where i want to be!!!
Crow Hunter
08-01-10, 16:31
You did sight it in using the small aperature didn't you?
If you are trying to sight it in with the larger aperature, you will be all over the place. It isn't a precision aperature. It is meant to be used up close and/or in low light against person sized targets and you will get large group dispersion because your eye can't center it as repeatedly every time. If you are hitting within a pie plate at 100 yards with the large aperature repeatably that is what you should pretty good actually.
If you are having trouble seeing through the small aperature, take the stock in a couple of notches to get you closer to the aperature it will help.
Also, if you have it sighted in for dead nuts on at 25 yards, it SHOULD be high at 150 yards. Don't forget your line of sight over the bore is roughly 2.5 inches so if you are hitting dead on at 25 yards, the arc of the bullet will put it close to 8 inches high at 150 yards. It won't cross your LOS again until out past 300 yards. Don't forget, laser bore sighting just shows you what the bore is pointing at, your bullet, unlike the laser, starts falling the instant it leaves the bore. If you are used to conventional hunting rifles you will get different results because the stock on the AR-15 is straight and as such the sight line is significantly higher than the bore as compared to a standard stocked hunting rifle that has drop in the stock to bring your sightline back closer to the bore.
To make a long story longer. If you want to shoot tighter groups with your iron sights, sight it in with the small aperature for around 1.5 inches low at 25 yards. That will keep your LOS closer to the trajectory of the bullet instead of lobbing the bullet out there in a high arc.
Use the large aperature for shooting close range moving people in low light. :D
yeah, i used the small aperature on the 25, 50 and 100...thanks!!! i just have to get used to shooting the platform again...this is the first one that i have actually owned and not uncle...plus they've made some improvements over the past 20 yrs, like the collapsable stock and these folding sights...
but these sights operate similar in nature to an archery peep with to a degree...you can get a smaller or larger aperature, depending on your ability to see in the low light conditions...i am quickly approaching 40 and finding my eyes are having issues adjusting to the light and darkness...it used to only be noticeable to me at dawn or dusk, especially during dusk in baseball season...i guess getting old does suck...
and normally all we did with them in the uscg was rifle quals...for boardings some of us carried m-16s, some had remmy 870s and the officers normally just carried a sidearm, beretta 92s...
I don't trust mechanical boresighters. what I do to get on paper is remove the upper and BCG and secure the upper in sandbags or mechanical rest.
look through the bore from behind and "sight in" at a distinct spot at least 100 yards away - I like to use the upper corner of a target stand centered in the hole so I get both a vertical and horizontal index.
now, without disturbing the alignment of the upper adjust your sights to this same spot. it will probably take a few cycles of adjusting sights, checking original bore alignment, refining sight adjustment, etc... but once they align perfectly, you are going to be very close to dead-on at this point.
reassemble the rifle and make final POA/POI adjustments with ammunition of choice...
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