Bolt Gun, Tac Rifle and LR

[jwfuhrman]

Ok, so Ive been reading up on calibers and what not and have decided that the 243 WIN is the caliber I want. What Im not sure on is the Action I want. Remington and Savage both make excellent platform.

Here is what Id like to use it for:

Long Range(600-1000) competition
Tactical Precision Rifle competitions

Id like to have the option of a box magazine(just to for higher capacity).

Just any info in those areas would be handy. Im new to the Bolt gun game and I know alot of you guys in this forum are smarter than I am.

I dont have a heck of alot of cash. Id love a GA Precision gun but funds aren't there for that. Basically, Id like a "starter gun" that I can upgrade over time into my "perfect" bolt gun.

[javentre]

If you're looking for a starter gun, I assume you're buying something off the shelf? If so, you need to look at the twist rates offered and what bullets you want to shoot.

When I last looked at the Remington lineup, the twist rates for the .243 really limited your bullet choices.

[jwfuhrman]

I agree. I think 1/9 is the best Ive seen out of any thing. Im debating on the Savage EDGE just to get started then build off that platform. I have a family member that is a gunsmith, actually helped Sinclair Intl on a lot of projects over the years when they were still local. He's done alot of barrels over the years so I thought about tryin to find just a Savage action and a Krieger barrel blank.

But I really dont know.

[glockeyed]

the edge design is so new there is about 0 aftermarket support. I also believe its more to compete with the remmy 770 model.

i just started and should have my rifle together this weekend. i ended up with a savage 12 varmint, in .223.

[jwfuhrman]

glockeyed - thats actually another model I was looking at, but in 243. 243 Win may be an odd caliber to use, but the more I read on it, the more I know its the right choice for what I want it for. George Gardner(sp?) of GAP used the 243 Win to out shoot 260 Rem and 6XC in the Snipers Hide Cup in 2006. His 115gr load was out shooting everything else. Plus Ive more and more of the top shooters from competitions like that are using 243 Win or 243 AI. Im sticking with 243 Win for avaliblity(sp)

The family member that is the gunsmith prefers the Savage action over the R700 action but Im still torn between the two. Maybe I haven't been looking in the right places but seems theres alot more out there for Remington actions than Savage.

[javentre]

George Gardner(sp?) of GAP used the 243 Win to out shoot 260 Rem and 6XC in the Snipers Hide Cup in 2006.

It's the indian, not the arrow. George is a talented shooter.

[glockeyed]

im going 223 because i don't reload, and its the cheapest match ammo i can get. plus this is just to get my feet wet.

although the 700 platform is the most popular its also the oldest.

from what i have read, savage seemed like the best out of box for a lower price. there is also the ease of caliber swaps.

my project was supposed to be buying a cheap tikka lite, cheap glass and see if i liked it lol.

[jwfuhrman]

I like the Savage Model 12 because it has a "bull barrel" of sorts. Thats the biggest selling point for me so far. Im not entirely sure what Im doing yet, so we'll see.

[glockeyed]

this is a pretty cool tool http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/finder/

[crossgun]

I honestly believe that if you are considering buying a barrel that without a doubt you should go with the 700 action.

There are just more options and its well proven in all arenas like a Glock pistol. To me buying the Savage would be like buying a 1911 from Para.

I have Remington 700 Tac rifles in 300win, 308, 223 and just finished a 260 which I really like. Look at the bullet offerings as the BC is higher on 264 vs. the 243.

Spend some time over at Snipers Hide. There is a ton of great info over there on bolt guns as well as a lot of used equipment for sale.

Unfortunately precision rifles aren’t cheap but they also don’t have to cost what some of those guys are getting.

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

There are other options. I have 4 custom rifles. All built on diffrent actions.

300 Win mag on a HOWA action
300 WSM on a FN SPR action
260 Rem on a Rem 700 action
260 Rem on a McMillan action

Of the 4 actions listed the HOWA was the most true from the factory. I would get a HOWA for your rifle but sence you are going to re barrel buy a long action for your build like a 3006 or 270 something with a .432 boltface. The howa is my pick as it comes with a M16 extractor, intigral bolt lug, fluted bolt, great factory trigger and steel bottom metal.

[jwfuhrman]

The main reason I was lookin at 243 Win is what Ive been reading at 6mmBR.com and snipershide.

Plus heres this part of the 243 Win article from 6mmBR.com -

.243 Win For Tactical Comps We asked GA Precision's George Gardner why he chose .243 Winchester for his Tactical Comp Gun. He replied, "Why would I run anything else? Think about it. I'm sending a .585 BC 115 at 3150 fps--that'll shoot inside the 6XC and .260 Rem with ease. I'm pretty sure I have found the Holy Grail of Comp Rifles. There are no brass issues like you can get forming .260 brass. I don't have to worry about doughnuts, reaming necks--none of that. And the choice in brass is great too--run Lapua if you want max reloads and great accuracy. Run Winchester if you're on a budget, and so you won't cry if you lose some cases in a match. I can get 10-round mags, and feeding is 100% reliable, since the case is identical to a .308 except for the neck. Accuracy-wise, I don't think I'm giving up anything to the .260 Rem or the 6XC." We then asked George if he'd considered using a .243 AI instead: "Yeah, the cases look cool with that 40° shoulder, but I think the standard .243 feeds a little better. And I don't think I really need the extra performance of an improved case. Run the ballistics for my load--115 moly DTAC at 3150 fps. You've got less windage than a 2950 fps 6.5-284, with cheaper brass, cheaper dies, cheaper bullets, and less recoil."

[jwfuhrman]

But the more I think about it, maybe I should just go with 308. There are more loads out there, more info, and just more stuff in general for a 308 Bolt gun that anything. I really like the Savage guns, so Im set on those.

Just need to decide between 243 Win or 308 Win

[Gutshot John]

Just need to decide between 243 Win or 308 Win

Are you intending on reloading?

[jwfuhrman]

yep, I have dies and components for all of my calibers.

I think Im just going to go with 308. I have match ammo for it already, and have base load figured up for my other 308 guns that I can start with. No need to add another caliber.

I realllllllyyyyyy like the Savage Model 10 FCP - McMillan they have listed on their site(Savage website).

For $1300 MSRP, I think thats a damn good starting gun. Just gotta put a little more $$ back now haha.

[Gutshot John]

I would think that if you're reloading than the financial benefits are less tangible.

It also seems that a prime virtue of reloading is that you can create your ideal ballistic performer. If the .243 delivers what you want I'd say stick with that. You can always get both.

There is probably ample data for .243 to get you started and you can always start collecting your own.

I think you can get a nicer rifle for a better price but that's up to you. Savage will certainly do the job.

[carbinero]

my goodness, if it's even a question, go with the 308.

...likewise with the 700. I picked up a D___k's ADL varmint 26" barrel NIB for $460. 1/2" at 100. Switch to a better trigger and stock later. At the same time, you can get good bottom metal and detachable mag e.g. Badger.

[jwfuhrman]

Im set on 308 and Savage action. Lot of the guys over at 6mmBR.com and Snipers Hide have been recommending me the Savage actions vs a Remington Action.

[Gutshot John]

Im set on 308 and Savage action. Lot of the guys over at 6mmBR.com and Snipers Hide have been recommending me the Savage actions vs a Remington Action.

Can you explain your reasoning for being "set" on it? What advantages do you perceive in the Savage? If it's a cost issue you mentioned an MSRP of $1200, you can get a nice remmy, plus a custom stock or more money for your optic (a much more important choice) and easily shoot sub-MOA.

Why are they recommending it? Is it what they have? Every bone-fide sniper I know overwhelmingly recommends Remmy. It remains the "standard" by which all others are judged.

The savage can't be the only rifle recommended at snipershide, I'm sure lots recommended the Remington action as well.

[carbinero]

I follow SH as well, and the Savage isn't the overwhelming recommendation at all. The main pros usually mentioned are: ease of swapping barrels, and trueness of receiver. Remington gets the nod on availability of parts, service, ubiquity...you will see a firm pro-Remington vote if you look up Randall (ar15barrels), posting at calguns.

Several years ago I bought a Savage as my "starter," but instead of turning it into what I really wanted, I sold it and bought a 700. It's just a better platform if you want the greatest variety of options in the future (consider your Detachable Mag interest and what's out there for 700: Badger, AI, Stiller, etc.) That's also why I bought an ADL...because I would replace the stock and bottom metal anyhow.

[jwfuhrman]

never said it wasnt the only recommended rifle on SH. Remington gets alot of recommendations, but for the uses that I want out of my build, the Savage is the preferred. Benchrest, F-Class, even some Tactical Long Range.

From 6mmBR.com

I would get a Savage 12 BVSS or Savage 10 FPC-McMillian Then you would have everything, good action, trigger, a good stock and a good barrel. You can get custom barresl pre-chambered. You can have a Krieger fitted to either actions. You can buy a used gun and changed to what you want. The Savage, you can change the bolt face to what you want, not so for the Remington.

[Gutshot John]

never said it wasnt the only recommended rifle on SH. Remington gets alot of recommendations, but for the uses that I want out of my build, the Savage is the preferred. Benchrest, F-Class, even some Tactical Long Range.

Respectfully I don't think that's correct. There may be proponents but it's certainly not preferred. Identifying the same needs there are better rifles and the 700 can fill all of those roles. This past week I was shooting 1000-1100 yards using a Remington SPS.

Relevant to Benchrest and F-Class those tend to require very high-end rifles and I'm not sure that at your price point one will be preferred.




From 6mmBR.com

I would get a Savage 12 BVSS or Savage 10 FPC-McMillian Then you would have everything, good action, trigger, a good stock and a good barrel. You can get custom barresl pre-chambered. You can have a Krieger fitted to either actions. You can buy a used gun and changed to what you want. The Savage, you can change the bolt face to what you want, not so for the Remington.

This logic is somewhat flawed as one might make most of the same arguments in favor of the 700. Have you fully considered the individual who proffered this advice? I'd wager there are many precision shooters here who have a reputation that you should consider who might disagree.

The 700 lends itself to far more customization than the Savage. Barrels, stocks, and other parts enjoy far more availability. As for the trigger it is far superior on a Remmy imo, especially when you're talking about stock. I've shot both, if you have and you still prefer the Savage trigger that's a subjective choice.

I can't speak directly to the "bolt face" argument but I'm not sure how much of a virtue that is. A high-end custom rifle maybe but you haven't really identified a need for such a thing.

Again if you prefer the Savage (you like the trigger, you like how it points, you like the feel or balance) than that's a legitimate subjective choice but there is no objective advantage of a Savage. The Remington can do everything the Savage can and probably then some.

[carbinero]

When it comes to subjective, I much prefer the 700 safety to the Savage. But if you like the Savage I'm sure it will do the job for you. Just make sure rationale fits actual intended :)