ARX-160 next U.S. assault rifle ? [Archive]

variablebinary

07-27-10, 19:39

Could Beretta's ARX-160 be the U.S. next assault rifle ?
http://kitup.military.com/2010/07/italy-has-a-modular-multi-caliber-rifle-in-service-now.html?wh=wh

While I personally don't have an interest in owning the Beretta, I think it brings some very slick tech to the table.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/01-arx-160-assault-rifle.jpg

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/03-arx-160-carbine.jpg

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/picture-10-21.png

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/07-arx-160-stripped.jpg

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/08-arx-160-12-and-16-in-barrels.jpg

Phazuka

07-27-10, 20:06

If the price was right, I'd take one over the SCAR or ACR.

Moose-Knuckle

07-27-10, 21:13

Next US service rifle? Just like the OICW, XM8, 416, or how about the MK16?

It's just another 5.56x45mm lead chunker. :rolleyes:

Personally I want something in the 40 Watt range. :cool:

Business_Casual

07-27-10, 21:24

The cost to roll out a new weapons system - which just sends 5.56 bullets down range the same way the current one does - wouldn't justify the change, now would it?

B_C

Entropy

07-27-10, 22:05

The cost to roll out a new weapons system - which just sends 5.56 bullets down range the same way the current one does - wouldn't justify the change, now would it?

B_C

Agreed. In my opinion the only chance that a new weapon system will get wide spread USGI adoption would be centered around a new cartridge that is outside current platforms in the inventory. 5.56, Grendel, 6.8,....etc all can be utilized in the M16 platform and will likely not induce a change. A mass adoption of .308, 7x46mm, 5.8x42mm, or some other larger cartridge could give the new weapon a kick in the butt. That or the new polymer cartridge or caseless prototypes get wide spread adoption which require a new weapon system.

KTR03

07-27-10, 22:15

Given the procurement issues with the SCAR it doesn't seem like the mil. is going to go with anything evolutionary. It appears to me that the issue is mostly around the 5.56 cartridge performance at range. Don't see how this would be any better than an m16 or an m4. Seems to me like they should step up to a bigger caliber to drive better performance.

deadduck357

07-27-10, 22:20

With CT ammo now a reality the future of brass cased ammo in the military may go the way of the Dodo.

http://kitup.military.com/2010/07/army-closer-to-era-of-lightweight-ammo.html

http://kitup.military.com/2010/07/a-saw-at-half-the-weight-its-for-real.html

http://kitup.military.com/2010/07/lsat-test-shoot-video.html

Dano5326

07-27-10, 22:21

Italian weapons systems = fail

Italian machine industry...

Red Italian cars with Horse or Bull logo = sex

Golden skinned raven haired Italian women = see above

deadduck357

07-27-10, 22:26

Italian weapons systems = fail

Italian machine industry...

Red Italian cars with Horse or Bull logo = sex

Golden skinned raven haired Italian women = see above

How long has the M9 been in service ?

Dano5326

07-27-10, 22:37

ever see someone catch a m9 slide in the face?

what units switched to Sig p226 & 228 after?

what dedicated counter terror units use the M-Nein, non ergonomic maintenance intensive dive weight?

m9 = fail

being general issue has little to do with the viability of a weapon, esp a sidearm.

variablebinary

07-27-10, 23:08

How long has the M9 been in service ?

The M9 is a less than ideal pistol for military use, irrespective of how long it has been in service.

deadduck357

07-27-10, 23:45

The M9 is a less than ideal pistol for military use, irrespective of how long it has been in service.

Same could be said about the M4, but it is what it is.

Bravo30

07-28-10, 00:13

ever see someone catch a m9 slide in the face?

I have.....and it was my face. Well, the back half of the slide anyway...the front half went about 5 yards downrange. :sad:

Dano5326

07-28-10, 00:15

Not here to flog the M9.. those that use it must.
Not sure how often the replace the slide now.. every 1,3,5krds? bleh

Perhaps someday SoCom will focus on the handgun piece and issue .40 M&P's to the minions under their wing.

The oversized unproven overweight Italio-carbine-dealio has yet to bring it to the table in any venue that matters

KTR03

07-28-10, 07:53

I have.....and it was my face. Well, the back half of the slide anyway...the front half went about 5 yards downrange. :sad:

Love your quote.

SIGguy229

07-28-10, 11:52

Next US service rifle? Just like the OICW, XM8, 416, or how about the MK16?

It's just another 5.56x45mm lead chunker. :rolleyes:

Personally I want something in the 40 mega-watt range. :cool:

Took the words right out of my head....

Seems to me, we should skip on the next 5.56 lead thrower and look at the 40 mega-watt option.....

Moose-Knuckle

07-28-10, 15:41

what dedicated counter terror units use the M-Nein, non ergonomic maintenance intensive dive weight?

LMFAO! :D

TehLlama

07-28-10, 15:42

Looks cool, but I see nothing than an MRP can't do, or a revised and improved SCAR/ACR/XCR.

KTR03

07-28-10, 16:34

you know, based on the pic of the thing broken open... They could/should make this as an upper and stock set that works on an AR receiver.

Cincinnatus

07-29-10, 13:18

What's the deal with this around the corner capability? is it a scope like the Aimpoint CEU or a computer that attaches to an eyepiece that lets one see what the weapon "sees?"

grunz

07-30-10, 21:49

Looks like camera to eyepiece display, maybe some sort of bluetooth setup? ;)

Naxet1959

07-31-10, 05:41

But it shoots around corners!:D

RogerinTPA

07-31-10, 10:09

Looks like a very viable weapon, IF it has been vigorously tested, in both the factory and the field by real users. Anyone got a link to the type of testing this weapon has endured or feedback from the troops down range?

m4fun

07-31-10, 20:52

I love the multi-cal idea. Can see this as a toy, not a replacement. For the home owner, you just buy another upper of - no tools to replace it...

MarkG

07-31-10, 21:50

Same could be said about the M4, but it is what it is.

Don't start...:nono:

variablebinary

08-01-10, 00:37

I will take the ARX-160 more serious when I stop seeing Italian pics like this.

The M4 is still the gold standard

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1402/mg8925.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/1037/afghan14pt0.jpg

tampam4

08-01-10, 00:42

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/1037/afghan14pt0.jpg

Well executed subtle bird flipping:D

scenicsquare

08-01-10, 08:33

if there was a dvd of shooting techniques similar to that demonstrated by the italian above, i would purchase the shit out of it.

also interesting to see the mp5k. subguns seem to retain a lot of institutional momentum within the european military community.

Safetyhit

08-01-10, 09:20

ever see someone catch a m9 slide in the face?

I am not disputing this statement, but how often does this occur? Did you see it personally, or just hear about it? In other words, what are the odds?

You endorse the S&W, what about the M&P Problem Thread here ( https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=52771 ) that is now 23 pages long after 3 months? We are not talking about 23 pages of ergonomics here, right?

I get it if you don't like the gun and will assume you have used one extensively. But to talk about it as though it's a piece of shit gives one the impression of bias.

The ARX-160 looks to be a decent weapon so far and until proven otherwise I won't be disparaging it simply because it's a Beretta.

RogerinTPA

08-01-10, 11:49

The term "Your not a SEAL unless you've eaten Italian steel" IIRC, came from SEALS and other SOF back in the day, using very hot 9mm 147 grain machinegun ammo in the Beretta 92s, which caused side cracks and catastrophic failures, injuring the user. The rear half of the slide flew backwards off the gun, hitting them in the mouth. The problem went away when Beretta reinforced the slide and folks started using military standard 124 grain and other normal pressure 9mm ammo.

Same problem with the M4 failures when SOF units used it as a SAW, on high rates of FA fire, causing catastrophic barrel failures. The problem went away when the weapon was used as designed.

kmrtnsn

08-01-10, 12:03

As I recall, that problem was on the early "F"'s. The addition of the stop to the "FS" cured that issue. My old agency carried 96D's for about 7 years, which had the same stop installed. I never heard of a "D" launching a slide and our 155grain .40 was a hell of a lot hotter than any 9mm +P or SMG load out there.

Dano5326

08-01-10, 13:14

Safety

Reg the M9.. The odds of happening aren't germane. 99% of users will likely never reach that point. Some units institutional use of a sidearm will push more rounds through in a week, than police officers in a lifetime. The fact that the design allows it is. Once user confidence is broken you can never go back.

Reg the Italio carbine... The telling tale is the fact that Italian units who can, use M4 variants. They had to overcome institutional and political hurdles to procure a suitable stick.

And yes, I am absolutely biased against all unproven life saving or mission essential operational equipment. Book, cover, etc..... If you aren't, then your delusional fan or a hobbyist. Be it a 4x4 vehicle, tourniquet , radio, or projectile dispenser... everything sucks until proven otherwise.

Esp when it's a bulkier heavier formfactor with clearly inferior ergonomics coming from a house of design w/o sound grounding in solid military armaments.

The rumour about the "hot" 9mm was just that. An excuse Beretta tried to use. It was not the ammo (TZZ 124gr 9mm) it was the high use rate in a SOF unit and shitty metallurgy in a key component.

Safetyhit

08-01-10, 14:00

And yes, I am absolutely biased against all unproven life saving or mission essential operational equipment. Book, cover, etc..... If you aren't, then your delusional fan or a hobbyist. Be it a 4x4 vehicle, tourniquet , radio, or projectile dispenser... everything sucks until proven otherwise.

Your reply makes a ton of sense, please don't misunderstand me. And as far as what you stated above, I could not agree more.

Keep in mind that I was not advocating the ARX beyond saying it "looks to be a decent weapon so far", what I was doing was commenting on the seemingly blind "If it's a Beretta it's junk" assessment. That is an assessment better reserved for Hi-Point, not the oldest firearm maker in the world who still does produce (good or bad) our military's primary sidearm.

As far as the M9 slide issue, I will leave it alone since I don't have the inventory of field experience you do (though I did put thousands of rounds through a 92 without issue years ago and own a so far perfect 90-Two .40). I just have to believe that these were rare instances, even under the extreme stresses you applied. And I emphasize "were" because you seem to speak of them as though they are past tense and another stated they corrected the issue.

Lumpy196

08-01-10, 14:09

I read the article in the OP's link. I didn't see anything that would lead one to question whether the ARX-160 is "the next U.S. assault rifle."

Some may find it titillating discussion, but since this thread is mostly a rehash of a TWENTY FIVE YEAR OLD M9 debate...Its not.

Reseremb

08-01-10, 14:25

also interesting to see the mp5k. subguns seem to retain a lot of institutional momentum within the european military community.

The "institutional momentum" in European armies and LE agencies came from a situation with hundreds of thousands of 9mm rounds sitting in armories (and manufacturers putting money in the aproppiete pouches), and also from a lack of need for a bigger punch by most subgun users.

MP5s are still common in a lot of SOF units here, particularly the SD models, but recent tests showed that the curent weapons are very close to retirement (zero shift, cracks in suppressors, low accuracy,...). In LE intervention units the MP5K and A3/A5 with B&T stocks resists the assault of FN and HK dealers with their P90 and MP7 :happy:

The telling tale is the fact that Italian units who can, use M4 variants. They had to overcome institutional and political hurdles to procure a suitable stick.

Italians units are trying to shift to M4 variants since 2000, San Marco Bn., COMSUBIN and Incursori tried the Stery AUGs in the 90s and after 2001 -and a lot of training with US units rotating through Italy- most of their SOF units are now using M4s in Afghanistan.

Vitor

08-02-10, 17:08

The ARX-160 seems to be a very overlooked weapon, specially since it seems to be a very well thought design. Check how incredibly simple is to switch the ejection side at 4min50s of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JejzPiUYYzg

Oh, I remember a italian poster at the firearmblog talking about the gun. He said Beretta was receiving direct input from troops, about what they liked and disliked.