Help diagnose my problem

[Rated21R]

Went to the range on Monday and put about 100 rounds (50 each) through my M&P full size and compact. I was getting consistent low right with full size and then consistent low left with compact. What I am doing wrong?

[RSA-OTC]

Tough to say with our being there, but I have read on the M&P forum were changing the grips from small thru large adapters have changed peoples point of impact.

I have huge hands and thought when I got the M&P 45 I would use the large adapter which felt the best in my hands. In practice the Medium works best for me. Right from the holster during the draw the front sight naturally comes right up into the center of the rear sight. With the large adapter the front sight was alway to one side and I would need to adjust my sight picture.

Also I have read threads where the sights were off from the factory. Look to see if either the front or rear sights might be slightly off center.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Finger placement on trigger.

[JSantoro]

I'd do another session to see if the problem consistently replicates. If you can eliminate all the "dope behind the gun" variables by shooting off a sandbag and whatnot, you'll either discover it IS something you're doing or that it's the dope ON the gun.

I took 300 rounds to make sure that my 9c was shooting high-right because of sights and not me. Had the rear drifted, bye-bye problem.

I completely understand the desire to NOT blame the gun (took 2100 rounds and having Todd shoot my M&P.45 to get to the point of admitting that the trigger sucked; I'm a bit slow...), but it's one of the variables, too.

[Jay870]

Mechanical mis-alignment of the sights aside...

First thing I'd look at is "milking the grip", or squezzing the entire strong hand harder as the trigger is pulled. A common symptom of this is a low-right shot for a right handed shooter. On the full size your pinky has all kinds of leverage to pull the gun low right as you tighten the grip. On the compact, you probably don't have your pinky on it at all unless you're running an extension.

This creeps in my shooting every now and again especially when I'm too focused on speed. What I do to eliminate it is to put all of my focus on pushing the trigger straight the rear using only the "proximal inter-phalangeal joint" (see image) without even really worrying about the target. I just want to focus on the sensation of a consistent grip pressure throughout the trigger pull.

http://www.eorthopod.com/sites/default/files/images/hand_finger_joint_anat01.jpg

[Rated21R]

Thanks all. I will take another trip to the range to see if it continues or if the suggestions provided work.

[ROCKET20_GINSU]

Without seeing you shoot, knowing your proficiency level or the location size of groups I would guess flinching. I've seen some solid SAO 1911 shooters start flinching and tossing their rounds low when they have to work a longer SFA trigger.

GU

[jeffreywt]

using only the "proximal inter-phalangeal joint"

Interesting image. Perhaps it works for you to use the joint of your finger but the consensus is to use the pad of your finger, is it not? Using the joint will pull my shots right (for a right hander). Using too little finger will push my shots low and left, especially with a Glock trigger.

Also, I have found that using the joint will lead to an improper grip by not keeping the bore in-line with the rest of your arm. Todd Jarrett is famous for explaining this technique on YouTube. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5640

[ck1]

Not enough info to help out... First off, are you right-handed or left-handed? Second, what does your grip look like (got a pic)?
Sounds like a grip issue to me.

My best advice would be to not get too caught up in your trigger-press until you've got your grip figured out, a lot of guys end up chasing their tails in that area when really their grip was the culprit all along... IMO the trigger-press thing gets too much attention sometimes, and proper grip rarely gets enough, you'll end up ironing that part out later once your grip gets you 90% there.

I think you'll find lighter striker-fired guns like Glocks and M&Ps are WAY more sensitive to grip issues than heavier guns like 1911's, Sig's and Beretta's which will let you get away with more, and that's before you've mastered their different triggers... Two different sized guns/grips just makes things even more tricky.

Check this out, at about 1 min and 30 sec in he shows just how it's done (and he's pretty good):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvJzFdcYSag

Hope this helps.

[nrose8989]

Interesting image. Perhaps it works for you to use the joint of your finger but the consensus is to use the pad of your finger, is it not? Using the joint will pull my shots right (for a right hander). Using too little finger will push my shots low and left, especially with a Glock trigger.

Also, I have found that using the joint will lead to an improper grip by not keeping the bore in-line with the rest of your arm. Todd Jarrett is famous for explaining this technique on YouTube. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5640

You miss read his statement. I had to take a second read to fully understand it as well. He is not saying place your joint on the trigger, but isolate the trigger squeeze movement at that joint. Meaning place the pad of your finger on the trigger but all rotation happens on that joint instead of the entire finger.

[jeffreywt]

You miss read his statement. I had to take a second read to fully understand it as well. He is not saying place your joint on the trigger, but isolate the trigger squeeze movement at that joint. Meaning place the pad of your finger on the trigger but all rotation happens on that joint instead of the entire finger.

Hey, you're right. That does make sense. Sorry for misreading your post Jay820!

[arizonaranchman]

Try benchresting them and eliminate the human error. If still low and to one side then change to a shorter front sight and drift the rear sight a tad over to adjust for windage.

Could be in your trigger pull as already mentioned.

[Jay870]

You miss read his statement. I had to take a second read to fully understand it as well. He is not saying place your joint on the trigger, but isolate the trigger squeeze movement at that joint. Meaning place the pad of your finger on the trigger but all rotation happens on that joint instead of the entire finger.


Hey, you're right. That does make sense. Sorry for misreading your post Jay820!

Thanks for clarifying nrose8989, you're exactly right. I didn't make it as clear as I could have.

[Julian]

Finger placement can work like a windage adjustment for a pistol. Try different placement with the same sight picture and check the results.
Take a look at Defoor's blog from a week or two ago, he addressed this issue.