thumbs fwd grip disabling slide lock [Archive]

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sadmin

07-30-10, 14:03

Sry0fcr

07-30-10, 14:19

TriumphRat675

07-30-10, 14:29

I have this issue with M&P's. I've moved my thumb on top of my support hand thumb; problem went away.

tb-av

07-30-10, 14:49

Might want to look at the thread I just started. Grip and Accuracy. Someone posted a nice link in there that specifically addresses the thumbs forward grip.

YVK

07-30-10, 15:22

It seems really sensitive as I dont have this issue on my 17, 17L, 22, or 34.

I find it interesting, since the distance to slide stop should be the same, and 34 comes with extended slide stop which is even easier to engage inadvertently.

Anyway, I have the same problem, and it's been well reported. I find it easy to correct by rolling strong side thumb out a bit - but it is only easy when I pick the gun up from the table. When drawing from holster under time pressure when I want to really grab it and go, I still at times have this problem, although it has been getting better with practice. When shooting with right hand only, I can pretty much guarantee it won't lock back.

As I said, it will get better with practice.

If you think it is bad with G-19, try shooting H&K P30...

NCSt8man1999

07-31-10, 22:40

Had same problem with .357 Sig 229R. Used the above recommended method of placing the thumb on top the support hand thumb and it went away. Takes a lot of work to break and rebuild that muscle memory, though.

M4Fundi

08-01-10, 01:26

I hate it when that happens. It usually happens to me when I can't get out and practice, but am doing alot of dryfire at home and I get sloppy and train into it. Then I go out and embarrass myself at a competition and (Zak Smith laughs at me) and I have to dryfire carefully out of the habit... till next time:p

bulbvivid

08-01-10, 07:05

Disclaimer-I'm not an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Is your support-hand wrist completely cammed forward to where it rides straight along the frame as high as it can go, or do your thumbs angle up in some fashion?

I used to have more of an angle to my thumbs, and my strong hand thumb would more or less rest on the slide stop, which would cause a failure to lock back. Now, the meat at the base of my thumb basically covers the slide release, to where, as far as this problem goes, my SH thumb can't even get to the slide stop.

Sounds to me like you need to cam your wrist forward.

https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5727&stc=1&d=1280664215

Here's the thread tb-av is referring to: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=720800

A good article to read: Handgunsmag.com (http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/index.html)

sadmin

08-01-10, 07:32

I will snap an image later of my grip. Im engulfing it, my thumbs almost completely in line with the slide, very high on the gun. Its definitely my strong hand thumb, i will adjust that.

Thanks for all the tips guys. I will try to cam my wrist more as well as do some dry fire work.
Part of the reason is I bought this pistol used, and the previous owner had a Comminoli safety installed on it, so it protrudes out far enough to force me to rest my strong thumb on it...
I need to have it ripped out, or grind it down pretty far.

LHS

08-01-10, 08:35

Happens to me with my Beretta 92. I just started training to bend the last joint of my thumb back and out of the way, and now it doesn't happen anymore.

JSGlock34

08-01-10, 20:39

Happens to me with my Beretta 92. I just started training to bend the last joint of my thumb back and out of the way, and now it doesn't happen anymore.

This is how I've dealt with the same problem when I shoot Glock pistols; I've simply had to train myself to bend my thumb out of the way as part of my grip.

I've read that some professional Glock competitors actually file down the slide stop to mitigate this problem; I haven't tried this solution but before I managed to change how I grip the pistol I was sorely tempted.

John Hearne

08-01-10, 20:56

I'm a long time Sig shooter. I tried the dominant thumb offset but it didn't work 100%. I transitioned to a thumbs high grip and like it much better. I've tried camming my wrist and find that it does aid shot to shot recovery. What I found was that it also affected my precision work with the pistol to an unacceptable degree. I just prefer to grip front to back with my dominant hand and strongly side to side with the support hand and keep my thumbs out of the equation.

http://thecurmudgeon.freeservers.com/sig_grip_side_overall.jpg
http://thecurmudgeon.freeservers.com/sig_grip_side_closeup.jpg

one

08-02-10, 02:34

I had this exact same problem with my 19 and thumbs forward gripping.

Since the parts are not that costly and easy to find I went ahead and cut and ground down the lever until there's almost nothing left of it. I was careful to leave enough that it does actually make the hook over the side of the frame.

So far so good on any reliability issues and it has "helped" to prevent the failures. I can't say that it's 100% prevented the failures but at least they are a distinct rarity now.

I did think about positioning my thumb more off the frame as others have said. And that's really probably the best advice here, but I'm so ingrained to grip as aggressively as I do that I would wind up right back where I started against the frame before I knew what I was doing.

At any rate with Glock parts being easily located and common I'd say it woulnd't be hard to pick up an extra piece to experiment with. You'll find it's actually easier to use a cut off wheel to take off most of the lever as opposed to a grinding wheel. It's tuff stuff.

Kyle Defoor

08-02-10, 09:30

http://www.kyledefoor.com/2009/06/sig-sauer-secrets.html

John_Wayne777

08-02-10, 10:18

Are you sure it's actually your thumb that is disabling the slide lock and not the meat of your weak hand? I have trouble disabling the slide lock on pistols but generally because my tendency to grip the gun high generally leads to the pad of my hand below the base of my thumb deactivating the slide lock. I find that the only way to combat this is to slightly lower my grip on the gun.

I'd also pay real close attention to what Kyle posted, folks. It's a tried and true technique that solves this problem for most people.

billy-s

08-02-10, 13:54

http://www.kyledefoor.com/2009/06/sig-sauer-secrets.html

This. Me and Klye used to work together and he helped me out with this issue.

The key is not in dry practice but in live fire repitition of one round mags.

Start with the pistol in hand and do a lot of reloads. Once the pistol consistanly locks to the rear then do the same but from the draw.

Once your thumb placement becomes natural start inducing stress to get your mind off the thumb placement and see if you can consistanly get slide lock. If not then back to controlled emergency reload drills working on thumb placement.

mark5pt56

08-02-10, 16:28

I echo Kyle and Billy. Due to the shape of my hands it keeps the strong thumb down and out a tad to keep the Glock bite away and also as JW777 mentioned-my weak had thumb base from kicking the slide lock up(I use the small one)

uscbigdawg

08-05-10, 19:12

Strong hand thumb down and weak hand thumb up as little as necessary. I know it's common sense, but I think it's the best solution with compromising other things.

Rich

Surf

08-06-10, 23:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIlDZUiBVvI

5:30 I talk about the issue in general. 7:40 I reference Sig Sauer's in particular and how I modify the thumbs forward grip as mentioned above. I am traditionally a 1911 guy and I learned to run my thumb tight to the slide on top of the safety, but I have been carrying an issued Sig for over a decade so an altered grip was a necessity. After a decade of running an altered grip, it comes pretty normal now.

Alaskapopo

08-07-10, 00:29

gun - glock 19
my idpa times are hurting due to me never (95%) getting a slide lock on an empty magazine. my thumb is bumping it just enough, causing me to have to A) recognize el snatcho B) fumble /rack on reload.

Does anyone have any methods besides hovering over the slide lock? It seems really sensitive as I dont have this issue on my 17, 17L, 22, or 34.

I had this issue on Sigs back when I shot them. I know this will horrify some but I cut the tab off the slide stop. It still locked back after an empty mag but my hand would never cause it not to lock back. I pull back on the slide to release it after inserting a fresh magazine so it was not a big deal for me. I installed a new slide stop when I sold the guns. Its a cheap part on a Glock you could give it a try. I shoot thumbs forward and feel it would not make sence to change a grip that works so well because of a gun issue. Modify the weapon instead.
Pat

uscbigdawg

08-07-10, 12:54

Another fix is to just put the support thumb on the side of the frame.

Rich

mike_556

09-13-10, 13:43

http://www.kyledefoor.com/2009/06/sig-sauer-secrets.html

THANKS!!