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brickbd
08-01-10, 01:44
Are gang members getting military training?

Chicago cop who served in Afghanistan and Iraq has seen a rise in US gang graffiti in the Middle East

By Frank Main
The Chicago Sun-Times

CHICAGO — Being in a street gang is now forbidden for members of the U.S. armed forces. But you might not guess that if you were to visit U.S. military bases in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to soldiers who have recently served there.

Jeffrey Stoleson, a Wisconsin corrections official, returned from Iraq in January with photos of gang graffiti on armored vehicles, latrines and buildings. Stoleson, a sergeant with a National Guard unit, was there for nine months to help the Army set up a prison facility outside Baghdad.

"I saw Maniac Latin Disciples graffiti out of Chicago," Stoleson said, adding that there was a lot of graffiti for Texas and California gangs, as well as Mexican drug cartels.

A Chicago Police officer — who retired from the regular Army and was recently on a tour of Afghanistan in the Army Reserve — said Bagram Air Base was covered with Chicago gang graffiti, everything from the Gangster Disciples' pitchfork to the Latin Kings' crown.

"It seems bigger now," said the officer, who previously served a tour in Iraq, where he also saw gang graffiti.

Now back in Chicago, the officer said he has arrested high-level gang members who have served in the military and kept the "Infantryman's bible" — called the FM 7-8 — in their homes. The book describes how to run for cover, fire a weapon tactically and do the "three- to five-second rushes" seen in war movies.

"It's scary," he said.

In 2006, Stoleson saw similar graffiti in Iraq during another tour of duty there. That year, the Chicago Sun-Times reported on gangs in the military — and published several of Stoleson's photos of gang graffiti.

Congress eventually banned members of the military from belonging to street gangs. And last November, the Defense Department added the ban to its rules.

Spokesmen for the Army and Defense Department said they could not provide figures on how many soldiers have been thrown out of the military or otherwise disciplined as a result of gang membership.

Stoleson, who stressed he was not speaking for the Wisconsin Department of Corrections or the Army, said it appears the problem is worse than ever. He warned that soldiers who return to gang life back home are especially dangerous because they know military tactics that they can use against the police and the public — as a Marine did in 2005 when he killed a police officer and wounded three others in a California ambush.

"Gang members are coming home now with one or two tours," he said. "Some were on the field of battle."

Civilian contractors in Iraq are part of the gang problem overseas, Stoleson said. He said he was involved in destroying a large quantity of drugs confiscated from U.S. contractors in Iraq.

Stoleson, who is a member of the International Latino Gang Investigators Association, said some police departments in California are now tracking whether gang members were in the military.

A second Chicago Police officer, who searches homes for drugs and guns, said gang members targeted by his team are sometimes current or former members of the armed forces. That becomes part of the team's pre-raid briefings because the suspect is an increased safety risk with military training, the officer said.

"We recently arrested a guy in the reserves for crack [cocaine]," the officer said. "He was a gang-banger."

Stoleson said that, on his previous tour in Iraq, he was friends with a soldier who associated with the Maniac Latin Disciples when he grew up in Chicago.

"We talked a lot about it. He said the military was the only way he could break free," Stoleson said.

But those aren't the people Stoleson worries about.

"My problem is the guys who go into the military to continue the lifestyle," he said.

T.J. Leyden, a former white supremacist, was one of those guys. He said he recruited fellow members of the Hammerskin Nation into the Marines when he was in the corps in the late 1980s and early 1990s and sent stolen Kevlar body armor and helmets to fellow skinheads back home.

"I wore white supremacist T-shirts, and I hung a swastika flag out of my barracks," said Leyden, who was kicked out of the Marines for drinking and fighting. "I hated America. The only reason I was a Marine was because they were the baddest of the bad."

Leyden, who lives in Utah now, said he quit the white-supremacy movement in 1996 because he was worried "my sons were becoming me."

He began working against the movement and founded Straight Talk Consulting, giving lectures to students and advising the FBI, the National Guard and other organizations about gangs in the military.

Leyden said his informants have told him that skinheads and street gangs are still entrenched in both the regular military and the National Guard.

"The military needs to wake up," he said.

C-grunt
08-01-10, 03:39
This was basically common knowledge when I was in. You could pretty much point out the nazis and gang members.

jklaughrey
08-01-10, 09:29
It was par for course growing up in L.A. Knew of many childhood "friends" who were gang affiliated that were instructed to join the Army or Marines. Some even told to join Navy and become Corpsman. Only the brightest were told, the rest were told to go to college(prison). Many gangs are shifting from common street thuggery and hustle to more sophisticated operating status. They are using the knowledge and training we are giving them. Many even use their GI bill money to continue their education, to better further the gangs influence. Recruitment needs to be more stringent.

ICANHITHIMMAN
08-01-10, 10:03
Wow I had no idea I guess I'm nieve to a point when it comes to things.

Rider79
08-01-10, 10:51
There was an episode of Gangland on the History Channel that addressed this specific issue.

GermanSynergy
08-01-10, 12:40
While there may be gang members in the military- we have to ask this question;

How many of them are really in any Tier 1 or C/A unit, and how many of them go into an MOS like Supply, Transportation, etc?

While at Ft.Hood, most of gang affiliated members were assigned to Corps Support Command (COSCOM) units, not combat arms. Not saying there aren't any, but the chances that a gang banger from Oakland, DC, Chicago etc can enter the military specifically for combat training, keep their noses clean & become Soldier of the Year are pretty low, as most of them lack the self discipline to show up for formation/work much of the time, and are constantly on their NCO's shit list.

Having dealt with some of these types as a military policeman, I can tell you that many of these individuals are chaptered out, desert or go AWOL before completing their first enlistment. Many are arrested/prosecuted by civilian authorities while off base, after committing various felonies on their off duty time.

The military is a representation of society as a whole, and it is inevitable that some bad apples are permitted to enlist.

kmrtnsn
08-01-10, 13:01
Had a POS former marine (he gets a little "m", he was never worthy of the title) in my USBP class a decade ago, real POS, neck to nuts with gang tats. How he ever passed a backgound investigation I'll never know. He is currently serving 5 years of federal time for dope smuggling on the job. Can't wait for him to get out, looking forward to arresting him while he is on probation. "Oye, Remember me, Cuz?"

GermanSynergy
08-01-10, 13:27
Had a POS former marine (he gets a little "m", he was never worthy of the title) in my USBP class a decade ago, real POS, neck to nuts with gang tats. How he ever passed a backgound investigation I'll never know. He is currently serving 5 years of federal time for dope smuggling on the job. Can't wait for him to get out, looking forward to arresting him while he is on probation. "Oye, Remember me, Cuz?"

Smuggling dope on the job? We had one guy like that- he was quickly discovered, court martialed and got prison time in Leavenworth...

Honu
08-01-10, 13:58
I would think they could say OH gang tats ? sorry you dont get in !
or Gang tats sure first you re going to remove them on your dime then come back and join
or
time for a skin graft our training Corpsman will do that for you they need the practice

NEXT !

jklaughrey
08-01-10, 14:22
Keep up the good work German. I know when I was active we had 2 that were front line operational. 1 actually "converted" to a honest Marine. The other one was involved in smuggling live explosive ordinance off base with a few other enterprising criminals. He is of course at Leavenworth. I know he got a lengthy sentence, how long I don't know. Either way vigilance is the key to our success with this problem.

Surf
08-01-10, 14:28
We have very large bases here from every branch of service. It is pretty common knowledge about gang members and the military, even represented on the actual bases themselves. It has been this way for the 20+ years that I have been on the job.

skyugo
08-01-10, 19:19
While there may be gang members in the military- we have to ask this question;

How many of them are really in any Tier 1 or C/A unit, and how many of them go into an MOS like Supply, Transportation, etc?

While at Ft.Hood, most of gang affiliated members were assigned to Corps Support Command (COSCOM) units, not combat arms. Not saying there aren't any, but the chances that a gang banger from Oakland, DC, Chicago etc can enter the military specifically for combat training, keep their noses clean & become Soldier of the Year are pretty low, as most of them lack the self discipline to show up for formation/work much of the time, and are constantly on their NCO's shit list.

Having dealt with some of these types as a military policeman, I can tell you that many of these individuals are chaptered out, desert or go AWOL before completing their first enlistment. Many are arrested/prosecuted by civilian authorities while off base, after committing various felonies on their off duty time.

The military is a representation of society as a whole, and it is inevitable that some bad apples are permitted to enlist.

I'd imagine some of these "bad apples" straighten their shit out in the military too. Hell, i'd think most of them join with that at least kind of in mind.
It seems like some kind of wacky paranoid news spin that gangs are using the military as some kind of combat training cash cow. :ph34r:

decodeddiesel
08-01-10, 19:43
This was basically common knowledge when I was in. You could pretty much point out the nazis and gang members.

Agreed. My f'ing E7 drill instructor was openly a crip from South Central LA for crying out loud. I met many people who were gang affiliated, Black Panthers, KKK, Neo-Nazis, etc.

ETA: I will add this though, aside from the DS in OSUT I rarely if ever met a gang related fellow in 11B land, especially in the 101st. Now, the Neo-Nazis and KKK were a different story.

GotAmmo
08-01-10, 19:49
Gangs... White Supremecists.... we have it all... and most of the White Supremecists I've seen have been in Ranger Battalions

And now adays with some BCT's receiving advanced marksmandship techniques prior to deployments... it is conceivable that our gangbangers in P.O.G units are learning how to slice the pie or tact reload better then the grunts.

GotAmmo
08-01-10, 19:52
I would think they could say OH gang tats ? sorry you dont get in !
or Gang tats sure first you re going to remove them on your dime then come back and join
or
time for a skin graft our training Corpsman will do that for you they need the practice

NEXT !

When I signed into Ft Stewart we had tattoo inspection... for males and females. but once you get it... noone checks of course.

But i do know the Army offers free tattoo removal

Nathan_Bell
08-01-10, 19:58
I'd imagine some of these "bad apples" straighten their shit out in the military too. Hell, i'd think most of them join with that at least kind of in mind.
It seems like some kind of wacky paranoid news spin that gangs are using the military as some kind of combat training cash cow. :ph34r:

Not new, not paranoia, and not just second stringers.

One to 1.5 million have served in Iraq.
Assuming that just one percent are shitbags that went in under the idea of learning to help their homies and 10% of them kept their word, you still have over 1,000 combat vets that are willing and able to eat the average police department's lunch if push comes to shove.

Those of you that have done one or two deployments. Do you not know how to completely **** up the operations of a government above the level of feudalism, simply by having had to fight that approach?

1-1.5 Million (depending on source) have been deployed for the GWOT, and the gangbangers are a noticeable minority to those that deployed along with them. There are 850k to 1.2 M gangbangers in the US. You think they won't have as noticeable impact there as well?

Business_Casual
08-01-10, 20:22
Not new, not paranoia, and not just second stringers.

One to 1.5 million have served in Iraq.
Assuming that just one percent are shitbags that went in under the idea of learning to help their homies and 10% of them kept their word, you still have over 1,000 combat vets that are willing and able to eat the average police department's lunch if push comes to shove.

Those of you that have done one or two deployments. Do you not know how to completely **** up the operations of a government above the level of feudalism, simply by having had to fight that approach?

1-1.5 Million (depending on source) have been deployed for the GWOT, and the gangbangers are a noticeable minority to those that deployed along with them. There are 850k to 1.2 M gangbangers in the US. You think they won't have as noticeable impact there as well?

OK, counselor, I'll buy that. But what is the end game for the gang that wants to "completely **** up the operations of a government" and how would that suit their business model? It would seem that most US gangs, in some way or another, sort of need the normal operation of the rest of society for their structure to work properly.

B_C

JSantoro
08-01-10, 21:50
Yep, not particularly unique. The Corps' 9th Comm Bn is known as "9th Crime" for a reason.

Gentoo
08-02-10, 01:19
How much of a problem are these guys for the other people in their unit? How about to their officers?

dookie1481
08-02-10, 15:30
How much of a problem are these guys for the other people in their unit? How about to their officers?

In 4.5 years in the USMC infantry, I NEVER heard of someone who was openly affiliated or even suspected of being such. Not in my unit, nor in any Bn. where I had friends.

I'm sure it happens, just saying that I doubt it's that prevalent in combat arms.

Jay

decodeddiesel
08-02-10, 16:27
Sadly, White Supremacists are everywhere in Army Combat Arms.