Am I a paranoid gun cleaner?

[masternave]

I didn't grow up with guns, so I'm having to rely on the wisdom of the internet, and since this is the wisest part of the gun-internet, I ask this here:

I clean my CMMG AR-15 (i.e., strip, soak in CLP, scrub each piece, oil with CLP, put back together, usually run a bore snake, or jag and patch the barrel) after every time I shoot. Is this completely necessary? I see a lot of shooters on this and other forums that run their guns several thousand rounds without cleaning. Is cleaning defined more strictly than what I've been doing? How often do you clean your firearms, and what does that entail?

Thanks. I know I ask a lot of stupid questions on this forum, but ya'll are so helpful! :P Thanks for all the advice.

[Beebs08]

i clean my gun after each use, but i don't always give it the full cleaning. since i spent a good chunk of cash on my gun, i want to take care of it. i always clean the barrel and lube the bcg after each use, and either every other time or when i get close to 500 rounds, i'll pull it completely apart and scrub everything and do what you are talking about.

also, i've been using automatic transmission fluid as a cleaner and regular mobil1 motor oil as a lube, and it has worked great on my gun so far, and its pretty cost effective. hope this helps.

[rychencop]

i clean after every 3rd or so range trip. no need to clean it every time.

[Iraqgunz]

I punch the barrel and chamber and do a wipe off of the BCG and inside upper. I then apply some light lube and reassemble. The last two times I pretty much did a wipe down and put them back in their resting spots.

[ST911]

Working guns: Internal and external wipe-down, visual inspection of parts, brush the chamber, pull a boresnake once, lube generously, and reload. 10 minutes if I go slow and am distracted.

Gun guns: Knock the chunks out, relube generously, shoot them until the stop running.

[Hmac]

Just finished a Defensive Edge course in Princeton today, lots of shooting in lots of rain. I added a liberal amount of WD40 to the above.

[Blankwaffe]

I basically follow the -10 in regards to PM for weapons going to be stored for any amount of time.If the rifle is to be used again within a few days I'll knock the chunks off,inspect the parts,clean the chamber with a chamber brush and punch the bore a few times before relube.
Basically I follow the old saying "the sun never sets on a dirty weapon."
It helps me keep Mr.Murphy at bay especially in the area of corrosion here in the toilet bowl.

[Littlelebowski]

I didn't grow up with guns, so I'm having to rely on the wisdom of the internet, and since this is the wisest part of the gun-internet, I ask this here:

I clean my CMMG AR-15 (i.e., strip, soak in CLP, scrub each piece, oil with CLP, put back together, usually run a bore snake, or jag and patch the barrel) after every time I shoot. Is this completely necessary? I see a lot of shooters on this and other forums that run their guns several thousand rounds without cleaning. Is cleaning defined more strictly than what I've been doing? How often do you clean your firearms, and what does that entail?

Thanks. I know I ask a lot of stupid questions on this forum, but ya'll are so helpful! :P Thanks for all the advice.

Yes, this is unnecessary.

[Littlelebowski]

Just finished a Defensive Edge course in Princeton today, lots of shooting in lots of rain. I added a liberal amount of WD40 to the above.

Bad. WD40 dries and cakes on.

[GermanSynergy]

Just finished a Defensive Edge course in Princeton today, lots of shooting in lots of rain. I added a liberal amount of WD40 to the above.

Why did you add WD40?

[ucrt]

Just finished a Defensive Edge course in Princeton today, lots of shooting in lots of rain. I added a liberal amount of WD40 to the above.

====================

I always heard that guns were allergic to WD40?? Leaves a "varnish" like coat that makes guns gill-fart.

The only good thing I've ever used WD40 for, was years ago when I had a Land Cruiser, to dry out a distributor cap when I was foolish enough to drive in water that was too deep.


.

[ghost762]

I clean my M9 ever Sunday morning here in Iraq and I don't even get to shoot it. :jester:

[Hmac]

I have to agree, gill-farting would be a problem for any firearm.

[whiskey6]

Its not an AK. Keep on keepin' on.

[ChicagoTex]

Unless you're in a gun-hostile environment (such as salt-water or large amounts of dust/dirt in the air) or shooting corrosive ammo, thorough cleaning on any kind of regular schedule is largely optional. As demonstrated by members on this site, you can run a quality AR for tens of thousands of rounds, only stopping to clean crud off the extractor when it builds up too much.

Note however that regular lubrication is necessary for reliable operation, how much and where depend on the gun you're running. In the case of the AR, several forum members with way more experience than I have already posted guides on the subject.

[Pal]

Cleaning it after each use shouldn't cause you any problems, it's probably overkill but if it makes you happy why not. Its usually not necessary. I clean most fireams after each use too.

[Blankwaffe]

Another thing important to note is other than parts inspection,lubrication and corrosion concerns(very humid environment here),I also alternate between steel cased and brass case ammunition from one day to the next.
That said Ive found that when using strict diets of steel cased ammo alone, its good practice to clean the chamber every 400 rounds or so to keep the weapon functional.
A basic cleaning as outlined in the -10 helps keep the weapon in functional condition no matter what can/mag of ammo I grab going out the door on the next use.Plus when I put the weapons away I consider them to be in grab and go condition,particularly defensive situations,so all the above applies for me.
IMHO a few minutes spent doing at least a minimal PM after use is not much effort to expend in keeping my somewhat expensive and trusted weapons in the best condition I can.
Same philosophy translated to my hand tools,vehicles etc...

[Texas Patriot]

I like to clean after each use. Several reasons why I do that.
1. I live in a relatively humid environment, near Houston, so its a good idea to not give the elements an opportunity to get a foothold with rust, corrosion and other bad juju.
2. I plan to use my weapon for a SHTF situation if ever needed for that. Sometimes, if you get into that situation, you will get little or no warning and taking time to clean a dirty weapon is the last thing I would have "spare time" allotted to when there are so many things to do then. I would hate to have to use my weapon suddenly and have it fail on me just because I didn't take 15 minutes after the last shooting to clean it up.
3. It makes me feel good when, on one of those occasions that I am showing my rifle to a friend of mine and as I present it, and open the action, all is clean and oiled instead of dirty and gunky.

That's it for me. Others may not need a clean weapon at the ready like I think I do. To each his own.

[Jay Cunningham]

I do not trust a clean firearm.

Think about it - you are taking a known quantity, and then messing with it and subsequently staking your life on it.

After I disassemble, inspect, clean, and reassemble a firearm I make sure to put several magazines through it before I can trust it again.

[ChicagoTex]

After I disassemble, inspect, clean, and reassemble a firearm I make sure to put several magazines through it before I can trust it again.

There's a surprising "so crazy it's brilliant" logic to that. I'm intruiged by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter :D

Seriously though, never thought of it that way.

[Jay Cunningham]

There's a surprising "so crazy it's brilliant" logic to that. I'm intruiged by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter :D

Seriously though, never thought of it that way.

Don't have a newsletter, but I do have a blog (http://www.thekatar.net/) you can subscribe to.

:thank_you2:

[rushca01]

Went through an EAG class in june which was about 1300 rounds down the pipe, put about 500 down the pipe before and after the class and it has not be cleaned yet. I bought the upper new before the class (Colt 6921 upper with BCM bcg). The only thing I have done is wipe down the outside of the gun, get's real dirty around the ejection port. The only reason I do this is so it doesn't get people dirty if they want to look at it etc...

[seb5]

I'm with Katar. I rarely detail clean my AR, my Glocks, or my Precision 308 bolt gun. For me this started years ago when I was shooting at a local club and I noticed a trend with the custom 1911 guys, of which I was one.

After the match or training the guys would detail strip and clean vigorously, reasssemble, load and carry till the next match. I noticed over the years that many of these shooters had minor feeding issues or seating issues with those first mags that had been loaded. I'm not talking about major malfunctions or something that happened with regularity but it happened occasionally and frequently enough that several of us decided to shoot, clean, shoot, then carry. This was over 20 years ago and is just a habit now.

After watching the young Marines in Iraq carrying thier M-16's with no finish because of excessive "cleaning" and a few classes I applied the same pracrtice to the AR series.

[RogerinTPA]

I didn't grow up with guns, so I'm having to rely on the wisdom of the internet, and since this is the wisest part of the gun-internet, I ask this here:

I clean my CMMG AR-15 (i.e., strip, soak in CLP, scrub each piece, oil with CLP, put back together, usually run a bore snake, or jag and patch the barrel) after every time I shoot. Is this completely necessary? I see a lot of shooters on this and other forums that run their guns several thousand rounds without cleaning. Is cleaning defined more strictly than what I've been doing? How often do you clean your firearms, and what does that entail?

Thanks. I know I ask a lot of stupid questions on this forum, but ya'll are so helpful! :P Thanks for all the advice.

Eh.....yes you are.....BUT if it makes you happy and sleep well at night, go for it.

No reason to adopt a "scrub scrub scrub" cleaning schedule. Over cleaning has done more to wear and damage parts than actually shooting the weapon. If necessary, the bolt or BCG will get a hose down/wipe down IF issues develop. I'm one of the guys who only clean every 3-4K rounds (primarily Wolf and Brown Bear) fired. With me, it's a reliability/confidence/lazy thing:p. I like to know that my ARs can run up to 4K rounds with just lube. On the flip side of the coin, others say cleaning after every session provides that warm fuzzy for reliability. Just don't over do it. I'm with Kater. If you're going to do a Parris Island scrub, do a function check, then test fire a few mags to insure the weapon is working properly.

[whiskey6]

I do not trust a clean firearm.

Think about it - you are taking a known quantity, and then messing with it and subsequently staking your life on it.

After I disassemble, inspect, clean, and reassemble a firearm I make sure to put several magazines through it before I can trust it again.

Then you start the proses over again.:jester:
No, really, that's worth chewing over.

[thegeneric]

Excessive cleaning, esp the barrel can cause unnecessary wear. Although I really haven't seen the negative results of such.

I guess it depends on how often you go to the range. When it got to the point that i only shot once every other month or so, I made sure that I stored my guns away clean. If I knew I was going to the range a few times in one week, I would just clean at the end of the week.

[ChicagoTex]

Excessive cleaning, esp the barrel can cause unnecessary wear.

It'd take years of multiple-times-daily detail cleaning for it cause excess wear to anything but finish, especially on a chrome-lined barrel AR-15.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[thegeneric]

It'd take years of multiple-times-daily detail cleaning for it cause excess wear to anything but finish, especially on a chrome-lined barrel AR-15.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

It would also take many thousands of rounds over a long time span to shoot out a barrel correct?

Like I said, I have never seen a barrel messed up by excessive cleaning either, just stating what I understand.

[ChicagoTex]

It would also take many thousands of rounds over a long time span to shoot out a barrel correct?

Rounds down the pipe are much more wear-inducing than cleaning (and are generally done much more rapidly, increasing the wear factor exponentially with residual heat increase).

My point is, while theoretically true, excess cleaning causing anything beyond finish wear is so slow and remote as to be entirely negligible. It's therefore not a sound reason against cleaning more than is truly necessary, and to list it as one drastically exaggerates it's effects.

In short: you're technically right, but it's a tiny detail that some people latch onto too much, and then use as an excuse to neglect their weapon, and that's where my concern is.

[thegeneric]

Rounds down the pipe are much more wear-inducing than cleaning (and are generally done much more rapidly, increasing the wear factor exponentially with residual heat increase).

My point is, while theoretically true, excess cleaning causing anything beyond finish wear is so slow and remote as to be entirely negligible. It's therefore not a sound reason against cleaning more than is truly necessary, and to list it as one drastically exaggerates it's effects.

In short: you're technically right, but it's a tiny detail that some people latch onto too much, and then use as an excuse to neglect their weapon, and that's where my concern is.
A well thought out and worded response. I accept your logic. I guess my fear of damage sustained while cleaning stems from the more dramatic effects of improper cleaning techniques rather than frequency.

[Littlelebowski]

In short: you're technically right, but it's a tiny detail that some people latch onto too much, and then use as an excuse to neglect their weapon, and that's where my concern is.

Do tell us about the neglect that you've seen.

[ChicagoTex]

I guess my fear of damage sustained while cleaning stems from the more dramatic effects of improper cleaning techniques rather than frequency.

Indeed, a fool jamming around their steel cleaning rod every which way destroying the chamber and muzzle can be a terrible thing whether it's their first cleaning or their five millionth.

[ChicagoTex]

Do tell us about the neglect that you've seen.

On another forum not to be named but not directly AR related I came across a lot of armchair armorers who would, out of one side of their mouth, claim that they needed to clean as little as possible as not to damage their gun from excess cleaning, but at the same time complain about most major service autopistols being unreliable for them because they'd linked the activities of lubrication and cleaning together. And since they didn't clean their gun because it would "damage it", they also didn't lube it.

Yeah, how's that for irony? :suicide:

[Blankwaffe]

On another forum not to be named but not directly AR related I came across a lot of armchair armorers who would, out of one side of their mouth, claim that they needed to clean as little as possible as not to damage their gun from excess cleaning, but at the same time complain about most major service autopistols being unreliable for them because they'd linked the activities of lubrication and cleaning together. And since they didn't clean their gun because it would "damage it", they also didn't lube it.

Yeah, how's that for irony? :suicide:

Man this is has always been a highly debatable subject,with extremes on both ends of the spectrum.
So here is my ramble on the subject.

Ive seen a number of pitted bolt tails here and over on ARFCOM due to lack of maintenance,so it does happen.The chrome chambers and bores on the AR's let alot of folks escape corrosion issues in that area.
With that said I have seen numerous poorly maintained non-chromed pistol barrels and rifle barrels damaged by either undersizing of the bore due to surface rust and or pitted as a result.
Ive seen bolt guns rust and pit bores in a two month time frame during hunting season due to environmentals and lack of attention.
Ive also seen heavy corrosion damage to exterior surfaces from daily carry and poor PM.
What folks dont consider most of the time is that the environment plays a huge role.For instance taking your weapon from a 70F house out into 90F+,and in my case matching humidity/dew points,the weapon will frost up like a cold brew.Same can be said for the reverse temperature situation.This also can affect ammuntion.If the weapon is not given some sort of attention it can take a toll.
Then you have to also take into account some of us have acidic finger prints,large doses of sweat and acidic soils.
Not to mention the crap that can end up in the bore from daily use,carry and transport.Ive seen everything from pine needles to potato chip crumbs in the bores of my weapons,and somehow they always manage to get right down against the bullet or into the chamber.
Then there are parts that fail that should have been caught during a routine PM/inspection.
Namely springs,fasteners,roll pins and damaged hard parts etc..
So yes I have also seen damage to functional weapons from lack of inspection and maintenance.

On the flip side I have also seen weapons damaged from ham fisted cleaning practices and poor back yard gunsmithing.
Washed muzzles and serious finish damage to the parts enough to alter the dimensions and resulting functional issues.
For instance I had a friend who was convinced that the best way to remove the carbon from his AR's bolt tail was to routinely run it on a wire brush wheel of the shop grinder.What he could not understand is that the bolt tail is a bearing surface and acts as part of a mechanical seal within the rear of the carrier gas chamber.Undersizing that area is not conducive to reliable function.Much more damaging than that little bit of carbon remaining on the bolt tail.
For another example,I recently had to recut the crown on my uncles 7400 due to his ham fisted cleaning rod technique.Simple use of a muzzle guide would have prevented the damage,but not consider until too late.

The most common things I see folks do that are harmful to the weapon and its finish is using metal objects as scrapers and steel brushes in an attempt to get that last little bit of carbon off the parts.There is absolutely no need to use screw drivers,picks,spring plates from stripper clips,paper clips,nails,dirll bits or steel brushes etc. to clean anything on the weapon.If the weapon is routinely PM'd and most importantly lubricated frequently then hard carbon deposits will be limited as the CLP with work to keep it soft and displaced within the lubricant film.
Same can be said for routine use of harsh or caustic solvents.Ive seen a number of nice bright bores etched from excessive/longterm use of strong ammonia based solvents.

The sharpest object I use to clean my weapon is a finger nail and maybe a chop stick to push a patch around in tight areas.Other than that I use a standard USGI tooth brush,chamber brush,bore brush and CLP with patches.Every once in awhile I use a bit of Hoppe's #9 to get the layer of Wolf poop from the bore.
If I have a large amount of carbon build up on the bolt tail,gas rings or similar,I'll soak the carbon off in CLP or Hoppe's No.9.

I dont personally know anyone who tries to do a white glove inspection type cleaning anymore.In fact with most of the AR receivers coming coated in dry film lube nowadays,I dont see how one could reach white glove clean unless the dry film lube is removed.
I will also say I have never personally damaged a weapon,or had a properly PM'd weapon fail to function.If I had, I would have to rethink my PM procedure and techniques.
So I believe that having a basic PM routine and inspection parts is an advised practice.Letting a weapon run for several thousand rounds with no inspection of parts and lube only may be fine for a training/range gun.But I could not be confident enough to want to stake my life on it over the long haul.Parts have to be somewhat clean to inspect them,so its two birds killed with the same stone in my book.

What I guess it all comes down to is what works for each individual and what confidence each of us have in our weapons and skill set.
My last word on weapons PM is its like everything in life,do it in moderation or it becomes excessive.If you dont think there is a need to do PM on your weapons routinely,thats fine too roll with what you got.
So I guess there are two sides of the coin to look at here,but its not worth arguing over and thats for sure.

[platoonDaddy]

Just finished a Defensive Edge course in Princeton today, lots of shooting in lots of rain. I added a liberal amount of WD40 to the above.

Did you ever think about Break-Free in lieu of WD? Our Armour would kill if he saw a can of WD-40 in the platoon area. It is the penetrating properties that are harmful to metal surfaces.

Just my $.02 on WD-40

[RogerinTPA]

On another forum not to be named but not directly AR related I came across a lot of armchair armorers who would, out of one side of their mouth, claim that they needed to clean as little as possible as not to damage their gun from excess cleaning, but at the same time complain about most major service autopistols being unreliable for them because they'd linked the activities of lubrication and cleaning together. And since they didn't clean their gun because it would "damage it", they also didn't lube it.

Yeah, how's that for irony? :suicide:

I would consider not properly lubing your weapon(s) as one of the most negligent and dumbest things an individual could do. Cleaning and lubing, are two separate processes.

Don't confuse proper cleaning techniques (which their is a thread here) and ridiculously ignorant cleaning techniques which damages the weapon.

Some weapons need more cleaning than others. Those that don't have correct chambers (Read .223 tight chambers, BM, Oly, Stag) that often get popped primers or have problems shooting steel cased ammo (stuck case) often need to clean the chamber more than those that have true 5.56 chambers.

[RogerinTPA]

Did you ever think about Break-Free in lieu of WD? Our Armour would kill if he saw a can of WD-40 in the platoon area. It is the penetrating properties that are harmful to metal surfaces.

Just my $.02 on WD-40

Never ever heard of that.:rolleyes:

It is a Water Displacement, 40th attempt. It is a light lube which prevents corrosion. It also turns into a yellow/orange paste after a while. I've used WD-40 to hose down my BCGs and uppers forever. It does well to break up the crude. Just use it as a cleaner, then use any flavor weapon lube to properly lube the BCG. Since I ran out of my last can of WD-40, I have made the switch to "ballistol" to perform the same function.

[Jake Bauer]

I'm a paranoid gun cleaner too. I spend way much more time cleaning my guns (yes, after every time I shoot them). I clean the bores till I get an almost mirror shine and I wipe the bolts and chambers til I see no more black/gray/brown whatever color on them and coat just about everything internal with gun oil or CLP. I'm just not satisfied until they're spotless, which I wish I could break away from because I spend hours on a single gun sometimes.

[masternave]

Really good answers so far... definitely reconsidering some things.. and relieved I don't have to toothbrush clean it every shoot. :)

[Teufelhunden]

te however that regular lubrication is necessary for reliable operation, how much and where depend on the gun you're running. In the case of the AR, several forum members with way more experience than I have already posted guides on the subject.

Mine stays wet enough that there is a wet ring around the pins and upper/lower junction once I start shooting from the lube the BCG sheds. I stay at the point where my BCG looks like it has a sheen on it, and before shooting, will add a couple of drops to the gas ports. If I'm shooting Simunitions through my rifle, I'll run a line of Slip2000 EWL down the visible length of the BCG in the ejection port.

The most religious thing I do as far as cleaning is to run the snake down the bore after a session of sims as the projectiles leave residue behind. I know the first live round out will probably take all that with it, but the idea of planning to put a live round down a barrel which I KNOW has some kind of obstruction in it makes me a uncomfortable.

Otherwise, the most regular thing I do is check my BCG when I pull it out of my cruiser to make sure the GA heat hasn't dried the Slip 2000 out. The EWL is better than CLP about drying out, so I only need to reapply once a month or so, which I usually end up doing in the course of prepping the gun for firing.

[ChicagoTex]

I know the first live round out will probably take all that with it, but the idea of planning to put a live round down a barrel which I KNOW has some kind of obstruction in it makes me a uncomfortable.

It should. Most crap that accumulates in the bore that people think will be "pushed out" with the next live round/copper jacketed round actually doesn't and gets pressed into the rifling instead. Obviously, if there's enough of it, you actually do have a pressure-increasing obstruction and that, of course, is a bad day.

Keep snaking after sims, it's a really good idea.

[skyugo]

wipe and lube is a good idea. don't gotta go nuts.

i always did the bore on my AR every 400-600 rounds. the bolt got a wipe down and relube every range trip though.

carry guns get a decent cleaning every time out.