SPR or Recce?

[wild_wild_wes]

SPR or Recce? I can only afford one, sort of.

I have a Nightforce 1-4X and a NF 2.5-10X32 waiting to be put on future builds. I am torn over putting the 2.5-10X on an 5.56 SPR, or a 16" AR10. The question I have is wether the 2.5-10X would be a better fit for a 7.62 gun, since as I have seen opined on TOS by an experienced AR builder/shooter, "Both the SPR and Recce can make hits over 400 yards, but beyond that they are just poking .22 holes". But, lots of guys have Mk12 clones and seem to think they are useful, and they seem to be doing well in actual combat....but is that because they are available, and 7.62 precision rifles generally are not, yet? The LMT MRP .308 16" rifle seems to be making a big splash in the role formerly held by the SPR.

So, given the limitations of the 5.56 cartridge, would it be a better option to have only a Recce as a precision rifle in that caliber with a 4X optic, and a 7.62 for longer range shooting with a more powerful scope?

[twitch1706]

I don't think having only a Recce in 5.56 is a bad thing, and aside from that it looks to me like your reasoning is fairly sound. I'd say throw the 2.5-10x on the 7.62 and call it a day.

[500grains]

Everyone needs a .308. Another .223 is great, but when SHTF is will be nice for you to be able to achieve better barrier penetration than the .223 offers, should you decide that the occasion warrants it. For example, if you wanted to punch through the door of a 1974 Ford LTD at 800 yards, with a .223 SPR do it?

So if you are sacrificing a .308 to get a .223 recce or SPR, I would advise going for the .308 instead. Down the road when finances permit them of course you can add the SPR or recce .223.

[ucrt]

SPR or Recce? I can only afford one, sort of.

I have a Nightforce 1-4X and a NF 2.5-10X32 waiting to be put on future builds. I am torn over putting the 2.5-10X on an 5.56 SPR, or a 16" AR10. The question I have is wether the 2.5-10X would be a better fit for a 7.62 gun, since as I have seen opined on TOS by an experienced AR builder/shooter, "Both the SPR and Recce can make hits over 400 yards, but beyond that they are just poking .22 holes". But, lots of guys have Mk12 clones and seem to think they are useful, and they seem to be doing well in actual combat....but is that because they are available, and 7.62 precision rifles generally are not, yet? The LMT MRP .308 16" rifle seems to be making a big splash in the role formerly held by the SPR.

So, given the limitations of the 5.56 cartridge, would it be a better option to have only a Recce as a precision rifle in that caliber with a 4X optic, and a 7.62 for longer range shooting with a more powerful scope?

==================

I would say set up a RECCE with the 1-4X first. If SHTF, most of us couldn't justify shooting a "long range" threat. Really and truly, is some turk-deville a 1/2 mile away with a 9mm Highpoint a "threat" to you?

I'm not saying, don't have long range capability (eventually) but have 0-250 yard protection first and foremost.

But that's just me.

.

[wild_wild_wes]

Yes, barrier penetration penetration is the other big factor. Another would be crosswind performance.

I was exchanging IMs on TOS with a guy who recently came back from Afghanistan where he was a DM; he was satisfied with the Mk12....but I see he just bought a 16" AR10T for himself.

[500grains]

. If SHTF, most of us couldn't justify shooting a "long range" threat. Really and truly, is some turk-deville a 1/2 mile away with a 9mm Highpoint a "threat" to you?


.

Perhaps not, but a gang that is systematically setting fire to buildings or cars and moving your direction is a threat. It probably would not be best to wait until they torch the next door neighbor's house before trying to put an end to their conduct.

[wild_wild_wes]

The NF 1-4X I have has an FC-2 reticle. Is this usable as a "precision" scope? Let's say, out to 300-400m.

[seb5]

The NF 1-4X I have has an FC-2 reticle. Is this usable as a "precision" scope? Let's say, out to 300-400m.

I had one for about 2 years so can't remember the hold overs and such but it is good to 400. It's much better at 300 but you can hit man sized targets with ease at 400. I wouldn't call it a precision rig but it's a capable combat rig. I sold it to fund a TA-33 HG, which I like a lot but am not sure the NF was a more multi faceted optic. I still have a NF 2.5-10 on a Noveske and it's a great precision rig but not worth much inside of 100.

[Failure2Stop]

"Both the SPR and Recce can make hits over 400 yards, but beyond that they are just poking .22 holes".

Yeah, but if you poke a hole in the right thing, caliber is academic.
Really, the heavy weight 5.56 does a lot better than "just .22 holes" anyway, even at long range.

Don't get me wrong, I am a firm believer in 7.62, but when it comes to stuff I have to buy, financing becomes a much larger issue- from initial investment to sustainment, 7.62 hurts a lot more. If you can afford it, it's a viable route.

Really, the biggest performance difference between an SPR and a Recce is the optic. Either way, adherance to loose concepts and definitions isn't worth wasting much time; identify your needs, budget, and personal preferences and assemble something that fills your defined role, not the role nebulously defined by some random SEALs in '02.

[ucrt]

Perhaps not, but a gang that is systematically setting fire to buildings or cars and moving your direction is a threat. It probably would not be best to wait until they torch the next door neighbor's house before trying to put an end to their conduct.

=========================

Good point. In our subdivision, I always figured I'd go "help" them defend their property before the "problems" got to me. Reckon it would be better to defend the neighbors from my property.

.

[benthughes]

The only 7.62 platforms I'm interested in carry a fairly hefty price tag, primarily the Larue OBR or LMTs offering. I'm not sold on the LWRC SABR and the SR-25 is way beyond what I'm willing to spend. For my uses I can't justify a AR-10 style rifle over a bolt action with a magazine. My current .308 is a FN PBR with 18" barrel and brake and it gets he job done.

That being said I've set up my ARs to be almost identical in 5.56 and 6.8 SPC. I can practice and compete with my 5.56 and hunt or whatever with my 6.8 which feels almost identical. The operation is the same with a negligable difference in recoil, weight and ammo capacity ( using Barrett mags). I don't think you necessarily gain any range, just better effect at any range you'd use your 5.56 for. My 6.8 has a Larue stealth upper reciever, WOA barrel, 13.2" Larue handguard and PWS muzzle break and mirrors my 5.56 Larue stealth upper. I use a nightforce 2.5-10 with FC-2 reticle and get sub MOA results ( awesome barrel !!). I wouldn't use it in close quarters and, thank God, shouldn't ever have to. I would love to have a 1-4 with FC-2 reticle but will likely go with a Trijicon TR-24 with green arrow reticle.

At this point, ammo prices for 6.8 and .308 are about the same with much better availability of .308 and of course the .308 will do everything the 6.8 will do and do it better.

For anything beyond 300 yards I'd prefer a bolt action rifle over AR platform anyhoo. Within 300 yards 5.56 is fine for 2 legged critters, 6.8 is better. I've taken caribou at just under 200 yards with a 6.8 with 115 Gr Barrett ammo ( using a sierra hollow point ). I'm interesting in loading up lighter 90 Gr Barnes TSK to see how those do. Thanks for listening to my rambling.

[TehLlama]

If you've already got a .308 that will have similar handling, the 5.56 makes the most sense in a Recce setup, especially with the 1-4x24mm optic on it (I've got an SR-15E3 that will wear a Vortex PST 1-4x soon). I don't see the FC2 reticle as a limitation until you're pushing past 400m. Something like a TSX 62gr is underrated for performance out to 300m.

A relatively light, handy 16" rifle with a variable optic and a light should handle most anything you throw at it, if you don't have a specific mission for an SPR, then it's not necessarily the best use of funds (though they're fun)

[et2041]

[QUOTE= For example, if you wanted to punch through the door of a 1974 Ford LTD at 800 yards, with a .223 SPR do it? [/QUOTE]

Note to self: Forget possible home invasion - Prepare for 74' Ford LTD's.:blink:

[decodeddiesel]

Personally I am leaning toward a Noveske 16" Recon barrel with a Rifle Length URX-II as my next upper. I am thinking this will be a great all around rig, with an honest 1 MOA capability, but it should also be able to hang in there during a high intensity carbine class. Like F2S said, it all comes down to optics...

[wild_wild_wes]

I guess I'll never know unless I shot both....

Thank you all for the input; I will have my 5.56 SPR build completed, and start buying parts for the 7.62....expensive, so it will take a while to get that one together. Then I'll trial it with the SPR's scope, and decide if it is worth it to buy another NF, or keep it on the 7.62 and sell the SPR upper. The Recce project is a go anyway, since that seems the best use for the NF 1-4X.

[sayndesyn]

.223 and then for long range threats homemade claymores to wake you up as they become close range threats? :D

[TAZ]

Not sure about the SPR being limited to 400m, but I'll defer to people who have had to use it in real situations.

If I were in your shoes, and had the Rece and SPR available the Rece would get the 1-4 and the SPR the 2.5-10. The Rece with the 1-4 will meet most urban needs be it CQB or reach out over a few blocks. The SPR I wouldnt want to have to take into a building. I love my SPR and it shoots very well, but when I think about needing to clear a room or anything short ranged like that it wouldnt be my first choice for sure.

I am also thinking about putting together a 308 gas gun, since I cant afford to buy an LMT (hoping they start making parts available over the next year or so to build with). That kind of rifle IMO screams for a 1-8.

[wild_wild_wes]

Got the first component for my .308 precision rig....a Noveske 16" barrel. So, I guess this will be a heavy Recce....

[decodeddiesel]

Got the first component for my .308 precision rig....a Noveske 16" barrel. So, I guess this will be a heavy Recce....

Good choice, honestly it won't be that heavy.

I like Noveske's Recce Light barrel but it just isn't readily available. The more and more I think about it the more I am leaning toward a BCM 410SS 16" and having it dimpled under the hand guards by ADCO (ala SR25 EMC). This could be an option with your Noveske if you are really worried about weights, but probably not worth it.

[boltcatch]

Threads like this is why I like my carbine that as a 12" rail and 16" barrel w/ Ops Inc brake and suppressor. I'm too cheap and lazy to deal with 2 different uppers or rifles, but an extra optic or two is easy. :dirol:

[NickW]

I went the 1-4X route on a 18" JP CTR02. I use the gun for 3gun as well as defense. The JP gives me a rifle length gas system, adj. gas block, lightened bolt carrier and comp to make a really soft/flat/accurate shooting rifle. However, due to JP's bbl profile the rifle is not heavy at all and balances real well.

I put the NF 2.5-10X32 on a Savage Mdl. 10PC (precision carbine) in .308 (accutrigger and accustock). The bbl. on my savage had been cut back to 18" and threaded by first owner. I put a comp on it and it worked out great. I like my combo- Med weight AR with 1-4X and a more precision short bolt gun in larger .308cal w/ larger magnified optic that shoots lights out and is still easy to carry/shoot. Going the bolt gun route vs. gas gun in .308 saved a boat load of cash that could be spent on other gear, ammo, etc. My .02