View Full Version : Post EMP Prioritization, Gathering, Preparation
savage_here
08-02-10, 16:35
I know there's an older thread or two on the book, One Second After. But, I wanted to start a new thread to discuss some practical issues that the book brought to mind and see how the folks here would handle things.
First off, I don't want to get into a long discussion about what electronics will go down and what won't. Let's just assume, for the sake of this discussion, that virtually all will be totally destroyed.
First thing that came to mind and that was touched on briefly in the book is that there would be no credit or debit transactions and so anything that you were going to procure would either have to be purchased with cash, bartered for or stolen. So, I'm wondering how many people keep a supply of cash (you don't have to say how much or divulge anything too personal if you don't want to) on hand for this type of situation. Going to the bank will be a no-go since they won't be able to access any records manually.
The follow-up would be what would be the things that you'd want to procure immediately keeping in mind that the "store" would have to be in walking distance and you'd have to have a way to cart the items back home? Bulk food, water, meds, sanitation supplies (TP, fem prods, bleach, etc.), additional weapons, additional ammo?
Next, if you wanted to get ahold of drugs/medications, etc., how would you go about it? Obviously you can walk into Walgreens, Target, etc. and get over-the-counter stuff. But, you'd most likely want to get at least some antibiotics, etc. so, what would be your plan there?
There is going to be a short time period where people are still trying to figure out what's going on. Most will think that it's a "blip" and everything will return to normal soon. One of my questions deals with timing. Looting will start at some point and then food and especially medicine will be gone for good. How many would "jump the queue" on that front and break into a pharmacy or something like that sooner rather than later to procure antibiotics, specialized meds, etc.? I know it's not a comfortable situation or question, but it's something I've been pondering.
This thread can go as far as we want to take it. If you want, after initial gathering, preps, etc. we can talk about bugging in or bugging out, defense of your stores/person/property, banding together, exclusion of others, etc.
Should be interesting.
if you live in anything other then a rural area with surrounding farms and a low population density. The first thing you need to do is plan how to get there and quickly. Even if you have some food put up in storage the unrest and unpreparedness of the majority and break down of civil authority will allow it to be quickly stripped from you. The aforementioned rural area will quickly defend them selves from the rushing hoard. Since you will most likely have to identify a place and get there quickly on foot or bicycle if need be. The quicker you bug out and the more you can bring with you in skills or material the quicker you will be accepted. Yes I do keep some cash on hand but the limiting factor is how much can you carry?
shittercrewchief
08-02-10, 17:43
You also need to think about the fact that cash may not be worth anything.
In a wordl where electronics run dmn near everything it would be like goin back 100 years in a few minutes.
best form of cash will be barter or the loud end of our carbine.
And get out the city fast.
I agree that cash will be worthless after a couple of days when people realize things are not going to go back to normal. Food and clean water will be first priority, and once they are in place a means to defend yourself and your family once people start roaming around looking for supplies.
I think it will be next to impossible to be completely prepared if this were to ever take place. Plug the lowest hole in the bucket first, then move your way up and plug the next hole, whether it be food, weapons, ammo, or medical supplies, each is just as important as the other.
High Desert
08-03-10, 10:58
In the situation you are talking about, money will be worthless.
Guns and ammo are good, but dont go overboard. You need food, med supplies, water, shelter too.
I think the best thing we have ever done was build a large pantry. We follow the principle of "stock what you eat and eat what you stock". By building up a large food supply we reduce our trips to town and more importantly only buy food on sale. My wife used to be an accountant and tracks every penny we spend. Because we only buy food on sale, it has made a tremendous impact on our expenses.
HD
On the subject of how to attain antibiotics, in one of the threads on here, someone mentioned that AB's for fish are the same as AB's for humans, and "say your fish had a cough" at a pet shop and you can get AB's without trying to fake an illness for Doc Rx'ed AB's
The follow-up would be what would be the things that you'd want to procure immediately keeping in mind that the "store" would have to be in walking distance and you'd have to have a way to cart the items back home? Bulk food, water, meds, sanitation supplies (TP, fem prods, bleach, etc.), additional weapons, additional ammo?
Backpacks and bikes most people have, and that would work for short store trips. However, the store is the last place I would want to go at the beginning of an emergency. Long lines, slow to non-existant service, and a dwindling to poor selection of products. Just-in-time delivery that crumples and stock levels that will be gone in a flash. No thanks. Waste of time unless you have almost nothing laid up in store.
Next, if you wanted to get ahold of drugs/medications, etc., how would you go about it? Obviously you can walk into Walgreens, Target, etc. and get over-the-counter stuff. But, you'd most likely want to get at least some antibiotics, etc. so, what would be your plan there?
Antibiotics? As mentioned earlier... Go see a veterinarian, or a pet store/animal supply store. Know what you want before you get there, don't do this if you havne't a clue about the medications being sold. Have cash if you can at all, as a backup have the best barter you can muster, unlike some - I do not consider guns or ammo as barter except perhaps with the most trusted of associates. That might be reasonably doable in the early stages of a long term emergency.
If you really need a human pharmacy, you can try your luck at the pharmacy of your choice, or all of them, but gooooood luck! I'd imagine that the chance of success is very low. You should have a supply of essential meds already if you have any inclination of preparing for such senarios.
There is going to be a short time period where people are still trying to figure out what's going on. Most will think that it's a "blip" and everything will return to normal soon. One of my questions deals with timing. Looting will start at some point and then food and especially medicine will be gone for good. How many would "jump the queue" on that front and break into a pharmacy or something like that sooner rather than later to procure antibiotics, specialized meds, etc.? I know it's not a comfortable situation or question, but it's something I've been pondering.
Understanding the collective conscience of any group of people is complicated and best left to people who have a really good feel of a particular community. I think elevated petty thefts will happen in relatively short order in a prolonged time without power, meds are very high on the list of certain types of people in my understanding. I would say pharmacies are picked clean sooner rather than later, perhaps even before looting or any mass breakdown in order. I don't even know that such will happen in all communities, some will have hair triggers for that behavior while others will resist for a long time or may never succum to it.
have you seen those funny pictures on the internet from third world countries showing an overloaded bicycle. I plan to duct tape some lumber to 2 cycles instant cart if it works. Most people do not know what emp is which is the scenario. Knowledge is power. Money will still be good for the 48 hours or so since there will be an information vacuum. That is the time to act then as mentioned get out to the death trap packing as light as you can. Fish hooks and fishing rods instead of cans of tuna. The east coast will be a death trap the die off in a populated area will be close to 100%. The only way of surviving is to Move out to low density area quickly while you still can
Loved the book, gave it to my mom, she gae it to my grandma, they both loved it. GF reading it now.
Anyway. My major "fear" is that this happens while my I am at work. This means that I have to treck 17+ miles back him in dress shoes, pants and shirt. Not the best idea. Having cloths in the car that would help me make the treck are a plus.
I rarely have cash on me, maybe $10 because I use plastic for everything, makes it easier to keep track of expences and so forth, so I would be f*cked in that sence. Having a pile of cash at home for such an emergency is not a bad idea, but I don't know if it will worth anything after the first day or two as others have said.
I live/work in the suberbs so I don't know if I will be leaving right away. I will agree that going to a rural are would be safer, but unless I take over someone elses home, where would my family and I stay?
This has already been discussed with my parents, we will all make our way back to their house. My GF and I will go to our condo first to pick up our dog and cat, gather all the firearms and ammo and make our way to my parents [2 miles]
My closest friend is a pharmacy tech. He has already been instructed to gather all the antibiotics, pain meds, and general healthcare needs he can get and make his way to my parents where his contribution will be met with food and protection.
After that we will have to gather food. We have some supplies but I see them lasting no more than 3 weeks to a month with my 6 people in the house. We will need t procure more. Initialy cash will work, but when it is no longer worth the paper its printed on, force will be the only way. Living in the retarded state of NJ, I am fairly sure that my family and I will be able to present more firearms than the majority. Therefore I have a really messed up suspision that we will be able to defend ourselves and if need be take to survive. In a situation like shown in the book, the hell with everyone else. I say this based on a small sample group, but in my entire family of say 70 or so people, my parents and I are the only ones who have firearms aside for my uncle who has a Beretta 92fs and one box of ammo in the house since he thinks there is no need for it and buys ammo at the range, for the range. None of my friends aside for 2 NJ LEOs have firearms either. So out of the 175+ names in my phone, there are 11 firearms. 4 of my own, 2 of my parents, 1 of my uncle and 2 each of the LEO's [personal carry and issue weapon] My father and I are the only ones in personal posession of rifles.
Also, creating an aliance with other show may have firearms would be a good idea.
Once all needed supplies are procured, we would hunker down and wait for the angry mob.
There is also a very large field behind my parents house, farming would have to become a regular activity as well as hunting for deer.
You also need to think about the fact that cash may not be worth anything.
In a wordl where electronics run dmn near everything it would be like goin back 100 years in a few minutes.
best form of cash will be barter or the loud end of our carbine.
And get out the city fast.
More than a 100 years, try 1000. 100 years ago, people still knew what they were doing with out cars, planes, computers. today, 95% of the population doesnt know what to do with themselves when the power goes out and theres no internet or tv. 1500 years ago, the tribes of Europe were busy pillaging and forgetting everything the Romans had done. 1000 years ago, farming techniques were just being discovered, farming on a "large scale" that is, providing for more than just your own family, 700 years ago, large communities were forming cities, formal Governments were being shaped from the ashes of Europe. They dont know how to fend of themselves when they cant go to the grocery and get what they need. Look at New Orleans the days following Katrina. Imagine that on a COUNTRY scale.
Luckily for me, I farm, and we have equipment still from 60+ years ago. tractors without computers, or many electronics, a 1967 GMC 3/4 4x4, that as long as the battery has juice, starts.
We also have the 2nd largest Amish population in the country in my county, and the vast majority of them, while untrusting of us "modern folk", are more than willing to help with things of this nature.
An event like One Second After would set us back to the Middle Ages(Europe for the next 1000 years following the Fall of Rome). If you think Katrina was bad, this would be horrible.
lonewolf21
08-10-10, 13:25
Tag. Damn I love this site.
One of my first priorities will be to get in touch with the local LE depts., the local Nat'l Guard, and the large contingent of FBI in the area to hopefully get them to see the necessity of locking down traffic through the area and protecting our resources. Some of the above are wife's patients and I know some. Should be able to get through. I could bike to the HQ's of each in 10min. Will be picking up an early 60's F-100 shortly so shouldn't have to bike. Prep's for family well under way.
If one has to scramble at the last minute to get prep's started/done; it's too late for you. Fu** keeping cash, go for silver rounds or gold; always accepted. Keep some liquor around; depending where you live it may or may not be valuable. Plenty of shine around here. Cigs would be valuable as well.
One of my first priorities will be to get in touch with the local LE depts., the local Nat'l Guard, and the large contingent of FBI in the area to hopefully get them to see the necessity of locking down traffic through the area and protecting our resources.
go for silver rounds or gold; always accepted. Keep some liquor around; depending where you live it may or may not be valuable. Plenty of shine around here. Cigs would be valuable as well.
There won't be much traffic to lock down. And the vehicles and radios those agencies have will be useless.
Gold and silver won't be much use till several years after the event. Guns and ammo, a preexisting network of useful people, and general supplies are what needed for the short term.
Long term will be anything useful in restarting local civilization.
Fuzzy-Reticle
08-10-10, 21:20
On the bright side it will be tough for the CC companies to send you a bill for all the stuff you bought preparing and stockpiling. :D
In all seriousness I think having silver coins and or gold coins along with ammunition (especially .22 in mass quantities) is a smart choice. I think the system would breakdown fairly rapidly especially in areas of dense population.
On the bright side it will be tough for the CC companies to send you a bill for all the stuff you bought preparing and stockpiling. :D
In all seriousness I think having silver coins and or gold coins along with ammunition (especially .22 in mass quantities) is a smart choice. I think the system would breakdown fairly rapidly especially in areas of dense population.
+1 for the .22 in mass quantities. You can do a lot with a .22, and ammo's cheap and low-bulk. .22 rimfires have killed a lot of out-of-season deer. If SHTF, save the real bullets for real trouble, and use .22s for close-range hunting.
There will be plenty of traffic; foot and motorized. Most military vehicles are EMP shielded as are Pierce Fire Engines. Older vehicles w/o circuit boards are GTG. Tube radios will work just fine and most mil. comm. gear will work as well. There also be radios that were shielded, purposefully or not, that will still fctn. It's stopping the foot traffic that is a priority.
Gold and silver have been valuable during previous SHTF situations throughout history. The last thing I'm going to do is trade guns and or ammo to someone that may eventually use it against me. There is a reason gold and silver are sought after. They have many uses in an industrial society.
kihnspiracy
08-11-10, 03:35
It would be like a Mad Max movie if it happened on a national level. Things would get ugly real quick. Most people have less than a weeks worth of food in their cupboards nowadays. Everyone is too involved with American Idol, bigass tv's, reality shows, etc to prepare for any kind of SHTF event.
arizonaranchman
08-14-10, 10:26
It would be like a Mad Max movie if it happened on a national level. Things would get ugly real quick. Most people have less than a weeks worth of food in their cupboards nowadays. Everyone is too involved with American Idol, bigass tv's, reality shows, etc to prepare for any kind of SHTF event.
Very true. An event like this would result in an absolute and complete breakdown in society and infrastructure. It would be an utter madhouse to say the least. Being in a remote rural area is one of your only options in the long run. Looting, rioting and hooliganism would be rampant on a biblical scale.
Zombies is a good way to visualize this sort of scenario...
NO cash
NO infrastructure
NO power grid
NO way to provide supplies/goods to people like food/fresh water
NO fuel
NO transportation other than bikes and horses
NO system of records at all - it's all electronic now
NO retirement system - if you did have one it's been vaporized
This sort of scene would just about be beyond anything you can imagine. Somalia would be like Beverly Hills...
The time to get the supplies for a post emp scenario is now. Every time the store has a sale on canned goods don't buy half a dozen cans, buy 6 dozen and get some shelves to store them on. Trying to go to rural areas after a disaster just makes you a refugee in the eyes of the people who live in the rural areas. It may mean taking a lower paying job or doing without the conveniance of having a 24 hour super wal-mart just down the road but now is the time to have a place in the country or in a small conservative town. Buy yourself a place where you can raise most of your own food and start doing it now. The best gardens are in established seed beds where most of the weeds and rocks have been rooted out not on newly broken unfertilized ground.
We have a one year supply of canned food already stored at our house along with bulk flour, sugar and yeast. We have horses for transportation, bulk kerosene for lanterns, wood backup heat and hand tools for gathering wood and repairing items. We are on good terms with our nearest neighbors and watch out for each other with the agreement that we band together in the event of disaster for mutual defense. Our tractor is a 1954 ford that will still run in the event of emp and next years garden will be twice the size of this years and the ground is already being worked and conditioned.
To sum it up you need to have your supplies ready now and when the disaster happens hunker down and be safe at home wether the disaster is emp, terrorist attack, financial meltdow, hurricane or blizzard. Don't be one of those who rush to the store as the blizzard/ hurricane approaches and stands in long lines trying to search for what they need among the picked over shelves trying to get the last can of beans or the last bottle of meds.
I keep a good supply of ammo, food, and water ready. I have some dogs that I sure would hate to have to eat.
What this thread just brought to my attention is that being active duty military I could be in the Stan or Iraq and my wife be here going through that....:eek: Got to train her up that is damn horrific in my mind.
If we where home depending on the situation we could get to post and have resources and protection. Protecting the family is my #1 priority in that event. Everyone elses A** can wait in line. I sure wouldn't be biking to the police I feel they'd be about worthless once the first shock wears off and hysteria hits i.e. about the time it take me to get to the police all the while my wife is stuck at home.
Now I have some planning to do.
MSP "Sarge"
08-24-10, 16:24
af__tt
Dog? Dude you are hard core. haha. I just looked at my dog. I don't know......
Gary
af__tt
Dog? Dude you are hard core. haha. I just looked at my dog. I don't know......
Gary
Worst case scenario! It'd be the hardest thing to do.
To add some info to this thread, I just had a Federal Agent in my store (friend of a friend). He came into get some work done on a firearm.
After about 5 minutes, the agent said to me; "Do you have an EMP proof storage container." Uhm, no I said. He advised me to either make one or buy one ASAP!
So the Govt believes and or knows something is coming, but there is no discussion about it from them.
C4
arizonaranchman
09-08-10, 10:20
To add some info to this thread, I just had a Federal Agent in my store (friend of a friend). He came into get some work done on a firearm.
After about 5 minutes, the agent said to me; "Do you have an EMP proof storage container." Uhm, no I said. He advised me to either make one or buy one ASAP!
So the Govt believes and or knows something is coming, but there is no discussion about it from them.
C4
Anyone know how you'd "EMP-proof" a storage container?
Interesting comment from your friend! I suspect the times we're living in now are far more critical than anyone realizes. We're at a crossroads here in the USA and at this point headed on the WRONG path being lead by a treasonous leadership. If we don't correct the direction we're headed we'll be living in a high-tech totalitarian state in the very near future. We probably do now, but at this point the State wears a mask of benevolence because it's easier to load us into the train cars with BS and assurances than at the point of a bayonet. But that mask will come off eventually as they become increasingly bold.
Anyone know how you'd "EMP-proof" a storage container?
Interesting comment from your friend! I suspect the times we're living in now are far more critical than anyone realizes. We're at a crossroads here in the USA and at this point headed on the WRONG path being lead by a treasonous leadership. If we don't correct the direction we're headed we'll be living in a high-tech totalitarian state in the very near future. We probably do now, but at this point the State wears a mask of benevolence because it's easier to load us into the train cars with BS and assurances than at the point of a bayonet. But that mask will come off eventually as they become increasingly bold.
Take a filing cabinet, line it with foam and cardboard. You can also use ammo can and such. It is called a "faraday box."
C4
dennisuello
09-08-10, 11:11
http://www.aussurvivalist.com/nuclear/empprotection.htm
To add some info to this thread, I just had a Federal Agent in my store (friend of a friend). He came into get some work done on a firearm.
After about 5 minutes, the agent said to me; "Do you have an EMP proof storage container." Uhm, no I said. He advised me to either make one or buy one ASAP!
So the Govt believes and or knows something is coming, but there is no discussion about it from them.
C4
:blink: Oh that's just great to hear:(
To add some info to this thread, I just had a Federal Agent in my store (friend of a friend). He came into get some work done on a firearm.
After about 5 minutes, the agent said to me; "Do you have an EMP proof storage container." Uhm, no I said. He advised me to either make one or buy one ASAP!
So the Govt believes and or knows something is coming, but there is no discussion about it from them.
C4
Wonder if a fire proof gun safe would offer protection?
Wonder if a fire proof gun safe would offer protection?
Excellent protection, especially if it was grounded.
On another forum, someone once suggested buying microwave ovens, cutting off the power-conducting leads, and plugging it in to act as a Faraday cage.
I suggested getting a metal locker and grounding it to a water pipe in the basement as being much cheaper and easier.
I see no real threat which would require me to store anything in a Faraday cage in my home, but if one sometime emerged, the locker in the basement will be my choice.
EchoMirage
09-08-10, 20:30
taken from the posted link about EMP:
Grounding a Faraday box is NOT necessary and in some cases actually may be less than ideal. While EMP and lightning aren't the "same animal", a good example of how lack of grounding is a plus can be seen with some types of lightning strikes. Take, for example, a lightning strike on a flying airplane. The strike doesn't fry the plane's occupants because the metal shell of the plane is a Faraday box of sorts. Even though the plane, high over the earth, isn't grounded it will sustain little damage.
taken from the posted link about EMP:
Grounding a Faraday box is NOT necessary and in some cases actually may be less than ideal. While EMP and lightning aren't the "same animal", a good example of how lack of grounding is a plus can be seen with some types of lightning strikes. Take, for example, a lightning strike on a flying airplane. The strike doesn't fry the plane's occupants because the metal shell of the plane is a Faraday box of sorts. Even though the plane, high over the earth, isn't grounded it will sustain little damage.
While an aircraft in flight isn't hard-wired to ground, it is grounded, albiet weakly. All attaching a hard ground does is to provide a fast path for excess charge to disperse. If your Faraday cage isn't grounded, any excess charge accumulated on the exterior will dissapate through the air or through the feet of the cage (if not insulated). Attaching a hard wire to ground simply provides a faster way to remove this excess charge.
polymorpheous
09-09-10, 15:21
"Gauging the Threat of an Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack is republished with permission of STRATFOR.
Read more: Gauging the Threat of an Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack | STRATFOR
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20100908_gauging_threat_electromagnetic_pulse_emp_attack?utm_source=SWeekly&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=100909&utm_content=readmore&elq=bbf608c3a0324a88b93982a18b2e084f
Article posted today.
Good article - there is little to suggest individual EMP hardening is necessary.
Fried Chicken Blowout
09-09-10, 22:50
I keep a good supply of ammo, food, and water ready. I have some dogs that I sure would hate to have to eat.
What this thread just brought to my attention is that being active duty military I could be in the Stan or Iraq and my wife be here going through that....:eek: Got to train her up that is damn horrific in my mind.
Have you read the book One Second After? Some of the book covers that exact fact of life. Scary thought...
NatGeo channel has a program about Solar storms/Flares that is directly related to EMP. Its a good program, we're entering a Solar Maximus which means odds for significant CME's (coronal mass ejections) hitting us and taking down a lot of electronics go way up.
I too had the question about a fireproof gun safe. What worries me is that I placed my phone in my safe, closed and locked the door then called it. It rang. Now I realize wavelengths differ and all that but does anyone have any evidence of protection??
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