View Full Version : Optics for LMT MWS
Crow Hunter
08-03-10, 12:09
I have a LMT MWS on order and I was wondering what kind of optics to put on it.
What optics are you using on your MWS, KAC SR25, OBR, SCAR H (Other 7.62 rifle)?
What is your reasoning behind using that particular optic?
The only .308 rifles that I have shot/own either have hunting scopes or iron sights only.
Failure2Stop
08-03-10, 17:17
Application will make a bigger difference in optics choice than caliber.
If your use mirrors the performance envelope of a 5.56 gun, the optics will be pretty similar.
One neat aspect of the new "higher power" low-power variables is that they let you put longer legs on the rig with a projectile that can do more work at long range without being relegated to mid distance and further only.
Crow Hunter
08-04-10, 07:02
I should have been more descriptive.
Sorry about that.
I was wondering what optics would best utilize the increased capabilities of the platform.
I was kind of leaning towards the ACOG but your comment about the variables has got me to thinking...
Mission drives gear, even if "mission" is just an overdramatic way saying how and what you want to shoot, at what distances, under what conditions. Be realistic, and you'll narrow it down a good chunk.
I don't have any of these guns you speak of. If I did I would look into either Night Force or Schmidt and Bender. In the few reviews I've looked into everyone seems to agree that the S&B has better glass. They also cost as much as those .308 guns you listed! Well, hopefully that gives you a start?
My MWS is set up with a NIGHTFORCE 2.5-10x24.
I may replace it with the S&B 1-8 once it hits the market and I can get some trigger time behind one.
I'm using a US Optics SN-3 ERGO 3.2-17x44 on my OBR. My reasoning is that I wanted it for precision shots. If I was going more for quick acquisition, I would have put an RDS or a lower powered scope like a 1-4 or even a 2.5-10.
atlantaguns
08-09-10, 14:43
What about a fixed 6x? I have a TA648 and I think it's great on a 7.62
That's a bit bulky and heavy, given what's available. The Brits are using that on their MWSs, but that's mostly because they had the things lying around after being used as a GPMG optic. The reticle basically matches the round they're firing, so they just slapped them on. It works, but there's better, lighter, more flexible options out there when you don't have somebody with glittery stuff on their collar (or epaulets) telling you what you may or may not use.
NF optics are a very reasonable choice, especially the 2.5-10x and they offer lots of other magnification options; same with a lot of the Leupold optics.
The S&B 1x8 is gonna be sweet, but I'm keeping an eye our for one of these babies: http://www.premierreticles.com/pdfs/2010-V81-8x.pdf
*boing*
I got a NF 2.5-10x32 with LV reticle in a LaRue SPR sitting in my closet waiting for my LMT 308 MWS to get here. Looked at the TA55 ACOG, too.
I have decided to give a 1-4x accupoint a try on my mws. I feel like that is a nice scope to go with the "battle rifle" theme I am leaning toward. I believe the triangle reticle will allow hits on a torso sized steel plate with out any trouble out to about 300 yards. Past that I am still unsure of how well the accupoint will work because I have zero experience with one.
Has anybody gotten their hands on the updated Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5? As I understand it they have increased the brightness of the reticule making it a much more attractive option.I am in the same boat as I am picking up a new optic for a trip to the Ghan and I am leaning towards a variable optic.
I have decided to give a 1-4x accupoint a try on my mws. I feel like that is a nice scope to go with the "battle rifle" theme I am leaning toward. I believe the triangle reticle will allow hits on a torso sized steel plate with out any trouble out to about 300 yards. Past that I am still unsure of how well the accupoint will work because I have zero experience with one.
I am leaning in that direction too. I am currently running a T1 and it works well..but I feel that a little more magnification would be nice. I am kinda liken the no battery idea.
Crow Hunter
08-10-10, 08:12
I haven't decided on an optic, but I have decided on a "mission".
I want to be able to make effective hits on a man sized target out to 600 yards. I guess it would qualify as a DMR.
What optic would be the best for this?
I have a TR24 that I have thought about using for this role like m1ajunkie but I am not sure that it has the features that I want to get me out to 600 yards. (I can dial it up but I don't have any means of ranging other than Mk1 eyeball.)
I would prefer an optic that would have a method of ranging built into the optic (mil-dots, BDC tree with chest width stadia, etc) and either a means of holding over or finger adjustable turrets that can be clicked up.
My experience with optics are as follows:
Aimpoint M4s (6920)
Leupold VXII 2-7x scopes (Browning A-Bolt)
Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14x (Colt 6724)
Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x (6920)
I don't own or have any experience with other optics so I am not sure what is out there that will meet my wants. (Notice I didn't say needs, I don't know what I need, I am not that experienced.:fie:)
The only "ranging" that I have done in the past is with the Leupold Vari-X 3 scopes. If you bracket the chest of a deer and look at the ring zoom setting and you approximate the range.
So what do you guys think?
I haven't decided on an optic, but I have decided on a "mission".
I want to be able to make effective hits on a man sized target out to 600 yards. I guess it would qualify as a DMR.
What optic would be the best for this?
I have a TR24 that I have thought about using for this role like m1ajunkie but I am not sure that it has the features that I want to get me out to 600 yards. (I can dial it up but I don't have any means of ranging other than Mk1 eyeball.)
I would prefer an optic that would have a method of ranging built into the optic (mil-dots, BDC tree with chest width stadia, etc) and either a means of holding over or finger adjustable turrets that can be clicked up.
My experience with optics are as follows:
Aimpoint M4s (6920)
Leupold VXII 2-7x scopes (Browning A-Bolt)
Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14x (Colt 6724)
Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x (6920)
I don't own or have any experience with other optics so I am not sure what is out there that will meet my wants. (Notice I didn't say needs, I don't know what I need, I am not that experienced.:fie:)
The only "ranging" that I have done in the past is with the Leupold Vari-X 3 scopes. If you bracket the chest of a deer and look at the ring zoom setting and you approximate the range.
So what do you guys think?
I would look at the leupold 1.5-5x mk4 scope. It has 1/2moa adjustments with a bdc elevation turrent, illumination, and a more precise reticle than the accupoint. I do not own one and only have about 5 min worth of range time on one so I am no expert. If I find I don't like the accupoint due to lack of ranging or hold over capabilities, then this leupold is my second choice.
...
I would prefer an optic that would have a method of ranging built into the optic (mil-dots, BDC tree with chest width stadia, etc) and either a means of holding over or finger adjustable turrets that can be clicked up.
Do some research on the various reticles choices available on the Nightforce 2.5-10x32. All have target knobs, and the reticles are available in:
A) Mildot Reticle - Generally the favorite for Ranging distances.
B) MOA Reticle - for the people like me that are too lazy to learn how to think in Mils, (but can run ballistics software).
C) Velocity Reticle - Three slightly different fixed configurations for either Low Velocity, Medium Velocity, or High Velocity bullets. It's very important to know the ballistics of your load before making a choice here.
It's also important to match the reticle and turrets to the same configuration. (Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA).
atlantaguns
08-11-10, 20:15
I haven't decided on an optic, but I have decided on a "mission".
I want to be able to make effective hits on a man sized target out to 600 yards. I guess it would qualify as a DMR.
What optic would be the best for this?
I have a TR24 that I have thought about using for this role like m1ajunkie but I am not sure that it has the features that I want to get me out to 600 yards. (I can dial it up but I don't have any means of ranging other than Mk1 eyeball.)
I would prefer an optic that would have a method of ranging built into the optic (mil-dots, BDC tree with chest width stadia, etc) and either a means of holding over or finger adjustable turrets that can be clicked up.
My experience with optics are as follows:
Aimpoint M4s (6920)
Leupold VXII 2-7x scopes (Browning A-Bolt)
Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14x (Colt 6724)
Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x (6920)
I don't own or have any experience with other optics so I am not sure what is out there that will meet my wants. (Notice I didn't say needs, I don't know what I need, I am not that experienced.:fie:)
The only "ranging" that I have done in the past is with the Leupold Vari-X 3 scopes. If you bracket the chest of a deer and look at the ring zoom setting and you approximate the range.
So what do you guys think?
Conditions would have to be VERY bad for you not to be able to hit minute of man @ 600 with a 4x 7.62 system. And if they were that bad you wouldn't hit with a 10x either.
Failure2Stop
08-12-10, 06:05
Conditions would have to be VERY bad for you not to be able to hit minute of man @ 600 with a 4x 7.62 system. And if they were that bad you wouldn't hit with a 10x either.
If you can see and identify that which you are shooting.
Its the primary advantage of high magnification.
I have 2 AR Platforms in .308
1) 20" REPR with Nightforce NXS F1 model - this weapon fills my fire support platform needs for engaging multiple targets out to 800-900 yards using 175 grain FGMM. It backs up my precision bolt guns (.338 LM) that are for single kills out to 1500 yards.
2) 16" MWS that is waiting either the 1-8X SB or Premier when they hit the market. It will be my trunk gun for CQB and distances out to 600 meters with 168 grain TAP. One of you guys needs to take one for the team and buy both the SB and Premier and do a head-to-head review...
I have decided to give a 1-4x accupoint a try on my mws. I feel like that is a nice scope to go with the "battle rifle" theme I am leaning toward. I believe the triangle reticle will allow hits on a torso sized steel plate with out any trouble out to about 300 yards. Past that I am still unsure of how well the accupoint will work because I have zero experience with one.
If that is your requirement or "mission" for your MWS, then the TR24 AccuPoint with the triangle reticle will work great. Anything beyond 300 yards, and you will want something with more legs and a better ranging reticle.
On my 5.56 16" middy patrol rifle, the TR24G's green triangle works well from 0-300yards. I have no complaints.
If I was outfitting one of these .308 AR platform rifles for myself, I would probably opt for something with more magnification (atleast 6x) & a better ranging ret.
If that is your requirement or "mission" for your MWS, then the TR24 AccuPoint with the triangle reticle will work great. Anything beyond 300 yards, and you will want something with more legs and a better ranging reticle.
On my 5.56 16" middy patrol rifle, the TR24G's green triangle works well from 0-300yards. I have no complaints.
If I was outfitting one of these .308 AR platform rifles for myself, I would probably opt for something with more magnification (atleast 6x) & a better ranging ret.
I would like something with more than 4x, but still want the 1x as most of my shooting is 100 yards and in. I make it to the 300 yard range about 1x per month and the 650 yard range about 1x per year so until I get some time with the accupoint it seems to be a nice optic for what I intend to use the mws for.
When I get the 18" stainless barrel I will get an optic with more magnification for sure.
I would like something with more than 4x, but still want the 1x as most of my shooting is 100 yards and in. I make it to the 300 yard range about 1x per month and the 650 yard range about 1x per year so until I get some time with the accupoint it seems to be a nice optic for what I intend to use the mws for.
When I get the 18" stainless barrel I will get an optic with more magnification for sure.
Beyond 300 yards you can probably dial your DOPE. If you paint in a couple of marks on the elevation dial for 400/500/600 yard drops, it's pretty easy to spin these up as required.
Of course, this is for practical accuracy, not for true precision stuff.
I recently got an 18" SS MWS.
How do I know if the NF 2.5-10x32 is right for me?
Can this shoot out to 800/1000m fine? Could one hunt with this scope? I suppose those are my only two needs, and hunting is optional.
Was thinking of getting the mil/mil model to keep things simple.
(And yes, of course I used the search function).
I recently got an 18" SS MWS.
How do I know if the NF 2.5-10x32 is right for me?
Can this shoot out to 800/1000m fine? Could one hunt with this scope? I suppose those are my only two needs, and hunting is optional.
Was thinking of getting the mil/mil model to keep things simple.
(And yes, of course I used the search function).
Depends on what you are shooting at that range. 10x was suitable for a long time, but when more power is an option most people like more power. If lots of shooting will be done at that range, I would opt for more. If most shooting will be done shorter then you may find that sufficient. Honesty with ourselves about what we really will do with it makes things easier. If anyone has been dishonest with himself about how much/what use an item will get, it is me! Honesty will save you from frustration.
I would second your move to go mil/mil. I cannot fathom why some people still choose mixed units of measure.
Most of the ranges around here only go out to 100yd, sometimes 200yd.
Once I have this rifle I would try to go out of my way into shooting at longer distances, at least 500m.
The consensus I've seen in research is that if its 10x or less, then SFP is OK, but if it's higher than 10, then FFP is preferred.
Most of the ranges around here only go out to 100yd, sometimes 200yd.
Once I have this rifle I would try to go out of my way into shooting at longer distances, at least 500m.
The consensus I've seen in research is that if its 10x or less, then SFP is OK, but if it's higher than 10, then FFP is preferred.
Having a 1-4, 1-8, 2.5-10, 3-18, and a 5-20... FFP is always preferred besides in a 1-4 power in my opinion. Perhaps not so ironically, my 1-4 is the only SFP optic I own.
More specifically, if you plan to mostly live at or above 50% of magnification AND your reticle is mil/moa hash/dot/grid, choose FFP.
If you plan to at least spend a lot of time shooting at minimum magnification and especially if your low end power is 1x, I'd carefully consider SFP because a visible reticle is better than a very hard to see reticle. It really depends on the magnification max and min as well as the specific reticle to determine if any given optic is usable at minimum power FFP.
Speaking of honesty, I guess that the NXS 2.5-10x32 popped into my head because those are often mounted on SPR type rifles. I would guess that I would shoot at 10x more just because you could better see the target.
My weird logic goes that while an SPR and LMT MWS are not in the same calibers, their use-cases are pretty much similar (DMR type riflery), therefore I guess I assumed that any glass decently suitable for an SPR should also work OK with an MWS.
Let's just say that my goal is to have a rifle that can pull DMR duty. I want it to be able to hit steel targets and silhouettes out to 1Km as my upper limit.
So with this information, am I looking at the right scope? (in spite of the fact that it's SFP)
Another option could be for me to look at Vortex stuff which I hear is pretty decent or the NF NXS 3.5-15x50 (which is what was on my actual rifle when owned by a previous owner). I do wonder if the larger NXS would add too much weight and be too long and thus make this rifle less mobile. I would like to take it hunting given that chance.
TheChunkNorris
07-15-15, 01:44
Went with a Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x32 and love it. It really depends on what your budget is and when you'll be shooting.
For reference:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/14/74428e1501a2b833a42f886089a46519.jpg
I did have a Zeiss Conquest at a time.. Think it was a 6.5-20x50.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/14/5e17a6b50f42e67f1d1747a2c7c320ec.jpg
Speaking of honesty, I guess that the NXS 2.5-10x32 popped into my head because those are often mounted on SPR type rifles. I would guess that I would shoot at 10x more just because you could better see the target.
My weird logic goes that while an SPR and LMT MWS are not in the same calibers, their use-cases are pretty much similar (DMR type riflery), therefore I guess I assumed that any glass decently suitable for an SPR should also work OK with an MWS.
Let's just say that my goal is to have a rifle that can pull DMR duty. I want it to be able to hit steel targets and silhouettes out to 1Km as my upper limit.
So with this information, am I looking at the right scope? (in spite of the fact that it's SFP)
Another option could be for me to look at Vortex stuff which I hear is pretty decent or the NF NXS 3.5-15x50 (which is what was on my actual rifle when owned by a previous owner). I do wonder if the larger NXS would add too much weight and be too long and thus make this rifle less mobile. I would like to take it hunting given that chance.
If you can afford a Leupold Mk6 3-18x44 with a H-59 reticle, I'd go for that before anything else. Just saying.
Leupold MK6 3-18
Leupold MK6 1-6
Leupold MK8 1.1-8
Nice but pricey options.
Leupold MK6 3-18
Leupold MK6 1-6
Leupold MK8 1.1-8
Nice but pricey options.
I will second that. TMRD for the 1-6 and Horus reticles for the rest.
If you intend to use a NF 2.5-10x32 at 10x all the time, it has a pretty tight eye box due to the small exit pupil. The x42 version is much more forgiving, but for the price of that you could snag the MK6 3-18 for not much more (unless you want the horus reticle).
I use my 2.5-10x32 out to 600 yards on a regular basis, and like it, but as soon as the light starts to go down in the evening and your pupils dilate larger than the exit pupil of the scope, it's tough to use unless you back off the magnification.
If you intend to use a NF 2.5-10x32 at 10x all the time, it has a pretty tight eye box due to the small exit pupil. The x42 version is much more forgiving, but for the price of that you could snag the MK6 3-18 for not much more (unless you want the horus reticle).
I use my 2.5-10x32 out to 600 yards on a regular basis, and like it, but as soon as the light starts to go down in the evening and your pupils dilate larger than the exit pupil of the scope, it's tough to use unless you back off the magnification.
This is helpful. Thank you!
I would look hard at either the Leupold Mk6 3-18x or NF F1 ATACR 4-16x, either in H59, with LE price edge going to the Mk6, but probably more rock solid of an optic going to the NF. If you need to run this type rifle as a cqb weapon get an offset T1. 8 & 10x is ok for minute of man past 500, but if you attend a match where you are shooting sub moa targets past 500 you will really want that extra magnification.
If you are really feeling froggy look at the S&B Ultra Short.
Leupolds have never proven to track all that well and i don't like their locking turrets
my choices are NF ATACR F1 or Vortex razor 3-18 both great, i have em both i have sold basically off all other scopes except vortex and NF, i'm done with scopes that don't track, and companies that think too highly of their own stuff (i.e.; S&B)
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