View Full Version : HK45 vs USP 45 vs. P30 in .40 - I'm torn
While the HK45 is a little more comfortable to hold than the USP 45, I can't say I like it enough more to go from 14-round capacity to 11-round capacity. I think it really sucks that the HK45 loses 3 rounds of capacity in comparison. One of the things I love about my G21SF is the 14-round capacity, so in thinking about going with an HK45, I can't help but be drawn to the USP 45 instead.
Can anyone here help me get clearer on making this choice decisively? If I go with the USP 45, do you think that would that be a mistake?
Or, another option would be to go with an P30 in .40 cal to benefit from the new design, reasonably potent caliber, and still have relatively high-ish capacity? Is this perhaps the best all around compromise?
I have a USP 45 compact and I love it it just fits well in my hand and I use the Hi-cap Mags if you can't kill it in 11 rounds then run :D just practice your mag swaps
John_Wayne777
08-05-10, 23:59
While the HK45 is a little more comfortable to hold than the USP 45, I can't say I like it enough more to go from 14-round capacity to 11-round capacity. I think it really sucks that the HK45 loses 3 rounds of capacity in comparison.
Speaking as someone who carried the USP...I don't. I'm willing to trade a little capacity for a gun that has a grip that isn't the size of a brick. Capacity is nice, but it's not the primary concern one should have in a pistol. The HK45 is much more svelte and much better handling than the old brick-like USP .45. S&W went with a 10 round capacity in the M&P .45 for the same reason...a gun that fits people better is going to be a better performer overall, even if capacity suffers somewhat.
Can anyone here help me get clearer on making this choice decisively? If I go with the USP 45, do you think that would that be a mistake?
It's your money...nobody can tell you that but you. Personally speaking, I have no use for the USP now that H&K has the newer generation handguns out. They handle much better. With trigger time on both I greatly prefer the HK45.
Or, another option would be to go with an P30 in .40 cal to benefit from the new design, reasonably potent caliber,
All the service calibers are reasonably potent. To the point where picking one over another comes down to very tiny (and in real life) often almost irrelevant differences for most people. The P30 is a good handgun in .40 or 9. It's a bit more readily available and cheaper to feed in 9 than in .40.
I'm looking forward to the pending arrival of my P30's.
Buy which feels best in your hand. Don't go by which holds more rounds. Heck try carrying a Colt 45 for 35+ years. All I had was 7 rounds. Now with the HK45 I gain 3 more rounds. I bought the HK 45 by how it felt in my hand. Not which carries more rounds.
With the HK 45, the grip fit was perfect for me, medium size hands, compared with the full size G21 and USP 45, the HK 45 melted into my hands. I handle the HK 30 and like it. For pricing, if compared with the Glock, you can't beat the pricing on G19/23.
I have no problems shooting a good 9mm (ammo) and the Glock
G26 is my current off duty carry, the G19/23 is my next buy, I like the P30 but the cost is a bit high.:(
I've really always loved the USP, but never loved the Variant 1 triggers in DA or the size of the grip.
The Hk45 still has the same, or similar trigger mechanism, but the grip is like an ergonomic dream.
If you are sweating capacity, then the choice really should be: Do I drop down to a P30 9mm or a Glock 17/19. The difference in three rounds between the USP and Hk45 is a non-issue, and just a marginal increase in capacity.
With my G17, I can carry a 17rd mag in the gun, +1 in the chamber, and use Arrendondo +3 extensions on my reload mags for 19rd reloads - it really won't take 20rds due to the springs and floorplate. (Thanks Ken Hackathorn, for the protip. :D)
I think the .40S&W is too snappy, and the theoretical gain in projectile mass, is not enough for me to want to use it over a 9mm. Plus the cost of ammo to practice, etc.
I think your choice would be 9mm P30 with 15+1 or the Hk45 with 10+1. Or as I said, if capacity is you main concern, a G17 with 17+1.
gtmtnbiker98
08-06-10, 13:36
Shoot all of them and then decide. Don't purchase blind or based upon other's opinion on a forum. Yes, the USP 45 is a large firearm but the HK45 is also large.
You never mentioned the intended purpose of the firearm. That also helps in rendering opinion. Of those mentioned, I own the HK45, HK45c, P30 9mm, and the P30S .40. Shivan mentioned the recoil of the .40, but when shooting it through the P30S, it handles the .40 as well as the M&P .40 which is rumored to handle the cartridge better than all others.
It always intrigues me how much weight a shooter places on capacity. It all boils down to your personal comfort level and ability. After all, handguns are poor performers in self defense situations, anyway.
If you are around Ohio, you are welcome to shoot any one of mine, I own all of the models mentioned and then some.
It's personal choice, but I chose the HK45 and HK45C. The handling is far better than the USP series, in my opinion.
Thanks for all of the replies.
It seems my appreciation for higher capacity is not so commonly shared. While I understand that most defense situations are not likely to require higher capacity, it seems to make sense to me that if I have the choice of several firearms that are somewhat comparable in size, reliability and shootability, that choosing one with higher capacity is a wise thing to do... to a point, of course. And I guess that particular point is one of the differentiating factors among us.
I have a 21SF which I like quite a bit and it shoots well for me. It doesn't possess the most wonderful feel in the hand of all the guns I might choose from, but it feels pretty good, I can shoot it well, and it offers great capacity for a .45.
So I guess I struggle a little bit with replacing it with a gun which feels somewhat better in the hand but gives up 3 rounds of capacity. I like the low bore axis of the 21SF (of all the Glocks, really) and wonder if the high bore axis of the HKs might bother me somewhat.
I guess the M&P 45 full size would be another option.
Along with my G21SF, which is an at-home gun that I don't carry, I have a G30 which I really do love shooting and carrying... it handles wonderfully, is a soft shooter, has all the accuracy and reliability I could ask for, and it has as much capacity as the HK45... so I guess I struggle with giving up the 21SF for another .45 which is much larger than my G30 but offers no greater capacity.
I guess I'm just at one of those "restless" times when I think that perhaps I might do well do switch up my guns for something different... I have read a lot of buzz about the M&P45 and the HK45, so that stirs up some thoughts of changing up my armaments to a degree. But at the same time, I'm relatively content as I'm set now.
Perhaps I'm doing just fine with my G30, G21SF, G23, and G19 and have no need to change horses... I'm probably just adrift at the present time and wondering about what a change to an HK45 or USP 45 - as an at-home defense pistol - might do for me...
Don
I think you have answered your own question.
There is nothing that you will gain by switching. I have tried them all over the years and carried all of your choices on Duty or off.
Capacity is a none issue, most modern defence or duty ammo in service calibers behaves about the same. You will gain a little from expansion in the 45 ,but counter that with rate of fire and recovery time/splits on target with a 9mm.
If you are seriously looking for an upgrade in your home defence pistol get a new Benelli shotgun:D
Limey.... hey buddy, nice to see you here!
You're right... I'm more than well set for defense guns and just have that recurring "itch" to try something else out. I've been mostly a .45 guy over the years, but carrying mostly the G23 for the last couple of years. Now I'm considering carrying nine for the greater capacity, quicker return to target/higher rate of fire/shorter split times.
Out of curiosity, what would your preferences be for on-duty and off these days?
The USP45 magazine holds 12 rounds, not 13. There is a 2 round difference between the USP and HK45.
The USP45 magazine holds 12 rounds, not 13. There is a 2 round difference between the USP and HK45.
Perhaps I was mistaken. I thought the HK45 was 10+1=11 and the USP45 was 13+1=14, a 3-round difference.
It seems my appreciation for higher capacity is not so commonly shared.
I don't think anyone dissuaded you from a higher capacity, at all. Quite simply, a difference of two or three rounds is a moot point. At least in my book.
If you want capacity, then get capacity. Go to a G17 with +3 extensions. That would be 19 in the mag and one in the gun. Three mags is 58 cartridges vs. 37 for a USP45 and three mags vs. 40 for a G21 with three mags.
I don't think anyone dissuaded you from a higher capacity, at all. Quite simply, a difference of two or three rounds is a moot point. At least in my book.
If you want capacity, then get capacity. Go to a G17 with +3 extensions. That would be 19 in the mag and one in the gun. Three mags is 58 cartridges vs. 37 for a USP45 and three mags vs. 40 for a G21 with three mags.
Woooo, there. Let's don't get carried away with that. ;) If capacity were the be-all, end-all for me I would have gone all 9mm years ago. My only thought was that I just got the impression that perhaps I valued 14 rounds in the gun over 11 rounds in the gun a bit more than some others, that's all. And that's just a matter of personal preference, no right nor wrong either way.
I'm not uncomfortable with 11 rounds in the gun, but if I can have a gun which is otherwise quite comparable that holds 14, I view that as a nice benefit, but not the only deciding factor. If 14-round capacity was a requirement, I wouldn't even be considering the HK45. But this gun is not going to be a carry gun for me, so I don't need to keep reduced size in mind for carry. Right now my G21SF is one of the home-defense pistols and I was just tossing the idea around in my head to perhaps replace it with something that is a bit more comfortable in the hand. I am relatively content with the G21SF, though.
I know I'm just bumbling around this whole proposition... I'm not considering this because I NEED to, just because I'm feeling the itch to change things up a bit, that's all.
And through all this, I'm beginning to focus in on the M&P45 ever more. I have an M&P40C which is a good gun. The reason I don't use it, though, is because I can carry and shoot my G30 just as well and I view 11 rnds of .45 a bit preferrable to 11 rnds. of .40. But the M&P45 is another animal. I need to learn more about the variants of the M&P45, so I'm doing some searches now.
I know I'm just bumbling around this whole proposition... I'm not considering this because I NEED to, just because I'm feeling the itch to change things up a bit, that's all.
I can identify with that sentiment. It can be really cool to get a new gun whether you need it or not. :dance3:
If you want to work with an H&K maybe consider getting a used USP 45 fullsize. the things are big, tough, reliable and built like tanks. You can probably pick up a decent used one for a lot less than the newer model H&K's. Since you are not going to carry it the large size shouldn't matter.
I can identify with that sentiment. It can be really cool to get a new gun whether you need it or not. :dance3:
If you want to work with an H&K maybe consider getting a used USP 45 fullsize. the things are big, tough, reliable and built like tanks. You can probably pick up a decent used one for a lot less than the newer model H&K's. Since you are not going to carry it the large size shouldn't matter.
Eliakim... that sounds like a good idea. First, though, I really need to get my hands on a full size USP. I know I like the USP compact in .40 as I've shot that and really like the cocked and locked carry option. (Can't stand DA/SA guns generally, but this gun can be run like a 1911, which I'm totally happy with.) But if the USP full size 45 is substantially larger, that might not be as good, or not bad either. As I said, I'm ok with my 21SF... really like it, actually.
Just this evening I started thinking about the M&P45 and got an idea... if I bought a M&P45 Full size (4.5") and a M&P45 Compact (4"), could I put the 4" slide from the Compact on the frame from the full size and make an M&P45 middy? Two guns make three?
I had the chance to handle and fire the FN FNP .45 tactical this weekend. Very nice shooter and an excellent price for what you get. Now you may not need the tac model, but the civi is a great pistol as well and for a little over 600bucks a heck of a deal. IMO!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=183493104
civvy model:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=182683360
I'm a huge HK fan, but have seen a lot of other pistol step up over the past few years....You're probably G2G with a Glock, M&P, SIG SP2029....I've seen handled the Taurus 24/7, but have not fired soooooo......
I had the chance to handle and fire the FN FNP .45 tactical this weekend. Very nice shooter and an excellent price for what you get. ...the civi is a great pistol as well and for a little over 600bucks a heck of a deal. IMO!
That civi model looks nice. We're fortunate to have a number of good models to choose from! How does the FN45 grip compare to the G21SF grip, do you know?
Eliakim... that sounds like a good idea. First, though, I really need to get my hands on a full size USP. I know I like the USP compact in .40 as I've shot that and really like the cocked and locked carry option. (Can't stand DA/SA guns generally, but this gun can be run like a 1911, which I'm totally happy with.) But if the USP full size 45 is substantially larger, that might not be as good, or not bad either. As I said, I'm ok with my 21SF... really like it, actually.
Just this evening I started thinking about the M&P45 and got an idea... if I bought a M&P45 Full size (4.5") and a M&P45 Compact (4"), could I put the 4" slide from the Compact on the frame from the full size and make an M&P45 middy? Two guns make three?
You like the USPc 40 S&W. Have you looked at the USPc 45?
You like the USPc 40 S&W. Have you looked at the USPc 45?
I have not. Definitely worth a look!
I've shot more than my fair share of the 40 in Glocks but don't any more. I just don't like the snappy recoil. The only pistol, including the P30, that tames the recoil for me sufficiently is the M&P in .40.
Much prefer the HK .45 over the USP for handling. Less block in general and easier to carry. I'm also a big fan of the 21SF and M&P .45. As always read Hilton Yam on comparison of these pistols.http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?95530-Battle-of-the-Plastic-.45-s-A-Review-by-Hilton-Yam
I've shot more than my fair share of the 40 in Glocks but don't any more. I just don't like the snappy recoil.
I know what you mean. I just LOVE my G23 for size, capacity, feel, but it isn't very enjoyable to shoot because it doesn't seem to tame .40 like some other platforms do. I will probably let my G23 go for that reason, unfortunately.
The only pistol, including the P30, that tames the recoil for me sufficiently is the M&P in .40.
I have an M&P40C and it does make shooting .40 fairly comfortable! Also, I've got two Browning Hi-Powers in .40 and those are really comfortable to shoot .40 with. But the most luxurious shooting .40 I know of is the STI Edge... shooting .40 in my Edge feels about like shooting 9mm! Great HD/RV gun, but a bit much for a CCW. It shoots like it was made by Cadillac, though! Reaalllly nice.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/STI%20Edge/Edge_1284.jpg
Much prefer the HK .45 over the USP for handling. Less block in general and easier to carry. I'm also a big fan of the 21SF and M&P .45.
I agree again... I love my 21SF. And I've pretty much decided to pick up an M&P45 Full size and an M&P45 Compact. At LE pricing, I can get both of those guns for somewhere around the price of the HK45. And if you put the top end from the M&P45 Compact on the frame of the M&P45 Full Size, you get an M&P45 MIDsize. Basically, buying two = get three M&P45's. :dance3:
As always read Hilton Yam on comparison of these pistols.http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?95530-Battle-of-the-Plastic-.45-s-A-Review-by-Hilton-Yam
Good reference.
Thanks for your input everyone. M&P45 Full and M&P45 C will be ordered on Monday.
Magic_Salad0892
08-14-10, 18:08
I'd go with HK .45-C.
But for capacity it'd be Glock 17 with factory +2 baseplates, or Arredondo +3.
I'd rather have the factory ones though.
.45 isn't a caliber geared toward capacity. 9x19mm is good for that.
I can't find a niche that .40 fills, so I'd just stay away from it.
Thanks for your input everyone. M&P45 Full and M&P45 C will be ordered on Monday.
Great choice. S&W has really done a great job on the M&P's and has done nothing but improved fit and finish since they first arrived. The full size M&P .45 does a great job allowing for fast and very accurate fire. It's pretty easy to carry as well. As much as I like the HK45 it's really pretty hard to recommend one HK 45 over two M&P's.
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