Kydex vs. Leather holster [Archive]

SeaSoldier

08-07-10, 09:52

I much prefer kydex for my M&P's and Glocks. When I use kydex my preference is Raven Concealment. I will not however use kydex for any of my 1911's or HiPowers, blasphemy in my opinion. I prefer Kramer horse hide holsters when not using kydex. They are at least as durable as kydex, nearly as fast and don't remove the pistols finish like kydex. Very few shooters draw from Kramer horse hide holsters enough to wear one out in a lifetime, they are bomb proof.

orionz06

08-07-10, 10:01

Kydex, there are no variables, moisture concerns, and in general it is a cheaper material. For my purposes, a nicely made leather holster will only be seen on my nightstand or on the internet, the money is better served for other things.

oboe

08-07-10, 10:01

Would you use the Kramer for concealed carry? If I had only one prized handgun that I used for everything, including CCW, would I want to go with Kramer rather than Kydex?

Since you like Kramer leather, why do you use the Kydex at all?

dojpros

08-07-10, 10:13

Kydex-faster. cheaper, thinner and typically faster to get from the maker.

I concur re Kramer for leather and have called their horsehide nature's kydex.

mattjmcd

08-07-10, 10:22

I think kydex is also faster/smoother to reholster, which to me is a big deal in classes and other high-rep situations.

YVK

08-07-10, 10:50

IMO, Kydex vs. leather is too much of generalization for a discussion. The analogy would be to discuss polymer-framed pistols vs. all-steel on a basis of frame material only. I look for specific benefits that given holster may or may not offer me; what it is made of is secondary.
I carry my Glock 19 in Raven and in horsehide VM-2. I like RCS stuff and have a bunch of it, but VM-2 is more comfortable, more stable and probably is more durable. On the other hand, Phantom is light compatible, can be worn OWB and IWB, and is cant-adjustable - features made possible because it is made of kydex. For me the in/out speed difference is negligible, and price difference is irrelevant - the functionality is the key. In light of this it can be seen why I don't subscribe to philosophy "kydex for less expensive guns, leather for more expensive gun". My most expensive gun has a kydex holster, and two more on the way - because I can't find a leather holster that I like for it.

Beat Trash

08-07-10, 11:32

I used a Kramer horsehide IWB # 3 for an off duty gun (S&W 3913) for several years. It's a great holster.

When I started carrying a Glock 19 as an off duty gun, I went with a Blade Tec UCH kydex holster.

The Kramer horsehide holster was a tad more comfortable against the skin than the kydex.

But the kydex holster was much faster on the draw, without any breaking in required. The kydex is thinner than even horsehide, which is a big deal for me when carrying IWB. And the kydex was cheaper.

The downsides to kydex for me have been less comfort against bare skin (I got use to it in time), and on muggy summer days, when tucking a shirt in over the UCH holster, I have had condensation form inside of the holster and gun, to the point where if I remove the magazine from the gun, there is condensation on the magazine body. I have never had this issue with a leather Mitch Rosen workman tuckable holster I used to carry.

If I were to go back to leather, it would most likely be a Kramer #3 in horsehide.

But for my needs, it's kydex.

JonInWA

08-07-10, 12:24

In my experience, primarily with Blade-Tech's kydex holsters, kydex is faster and more durable.

Leather/horsehide is quieter (when drawing and reholstering) and less marring of your gun's finish (or, probably more correctly, it will take longer and more insertions and extractions of the gun to mar the finish to the same extent that kydex seems to do relatively quickly to the high points of gun to holster contact).

I agree that the Kramer #3 IWB is one of the most comfortable and effective leather/horsehide holsters that I've experienced-out of their holster line-up, it's my favorite. Horsehide is preferable to cowhide for me, as it's more durable and more water/persperation resistant.

Generally, I much prefer kydex to most alternatives, due to draw effeciency, speed, durability and comfort. For a gun with a rugged finish (such a a Glock) (or a gun whose pristine finish is of relatively low concern) , I find kydex to be an excellent daily choice. From a pricing standpoint, a quality kydex holster is usually significantly less expensive than a comperable quality leather/horsehide holster from a quality manufacturer.

Best, Jon

gtmtnbiker98

08-07-10, 12:41

Best of both Worlds, Comp-Tac MTAC. They work well for me and besides, all holsters wear the finish!

willowofwisp

08-07-10, 13:29

Best of both Worlds, Comp-Tac MTAC. They work well for me and besides, all holsters wear the finish!

+1 I wear my mtac a lot especially when I have to dress for work and what not but I do love my raven for owb carry..not so much iwb...i have them bothset to the same cantt so I can't be consistent

SeaSoldier

08-07-10, 14:20

One of kydex's strong points is that it is very fast. One of kydex's weak points is that it is very fast. Much easier to disarm the untrained person with a kydex holster than with leather. I have seen kydex holsters "blow up" in weapon retention scenarios where leather would not have. My 1911's and HiPowers are blued and the finish is easily removed by kydex. That being said my carry pistols are the G19 and M&P9 that are carried in kydex OWB most of the time in Raven holsters. For IWB I prefer a Kramer horse hide IWB #3. I have a box of leather holsters for my 1911's and BHP that don't get used very often. In the end, holsters are a very personal choice. YMMV

Seraph

08-07-10, 16:13

gtmtnbiker98

08-07-10, 16:20

I have no regard for what material will wear upon my sidearm's finish faster. For personal defense IWB carry, I will only use leather. That is one criterion, among others, upon which my bias is formed.Please share your reasoning for just leather. I am curious. I use both and am curious to know what I may be missing.

Seraph

08-07-10, 16:35

Please share your reasoning for just leather. I am curious. I use both and am curious to know what I may be missing.

A nicely made leather holster will have Kydex-like rigidity when it is new. As it is broken in, it will soften and bend in key points (such as in the side flanges, where the snap loops should be mounted for weight distribution, and in the tail flange, if it has one), so that it molds itself to your shape, according to the position you wear it in, providing superior comfort for extended wear (and comfort IS important to concealment). As well, it will retain most of that rigidity through the scabbard portion, so that it will continue to provide desirable retention, draw, and reholstering characteristics. Kydex doesn't really break-in so much. A look at any "hybrid" type holster readily illustrates that makers of them understand the virtues of leather. Otherwise, they'd make their holsters from Kydex only, or some other synthetic.

wahoo95

08-07-10, 16:36

I prefer leather for OWB and Kydex for IWB. My current favs are Don Hume 721 OT's for OWB and RM Holsters for IWB. I like the RM Holster because it's easy on and off. I think leather carries so much beter OWB and looks better too :)

bkb0000

08-07-10, 16:50

leather for concealment.. i've yet to ever find kydex that doesn't print like crazy. i have not tried any of these newer kydex IWBs, but i'm perfectly happy with my leather IWB. leather conforms, squished between belt and body. i think this makes it both more comfortable as well as conceals better.

for duty/open carry, kydex for sure. its gonna hold up against the elements, and ensure that grip is exactly where you expect it to be for the quick draw.

my take

KTR03

08-07-10, 17:11

I use mostly kydex. The one leather holster I use is a DelFatti Holster for my p7m8 that is super comfortable. DelFatti understand the weight distribution of the p7m8 (but heavy) and does a good job on his holsters. Downside they are crazy money (over 200 bucks) and it takes years to get them.

Conversely Kydex is cheap, easily moldable, ships quickly, and lasts and lasts. Comptac is my current fav. I have many of their holsters and have had no complaints. Kydex holsters are not affected by humidity. They are fast. The guns tipically "click" into them. The other thing that is cool with kydex is you can buy sheets of it and mold holsters and holders for almost anything.

Steve S.

08-07-10, 17:16

I agree with the guy above me, leather is much more comfortable and doesn't index the gun as much.

That said, I am really getting sick of leather holsters wearing out. Even the high end ones will wear out in a few years.

My newest Kydex is the Safariland 5187 which is similar to high end Kydex ones. I like that the oustide is blended so it doesn't profile much, and the inside has a little suede lining to help save the finish of the firearm. It is extremely fast, has adjustable retention, and adjustable belt size loops.

I recommend this holster to anyone looking for a kydex and doesn't want to try one on a Blade-Tech price point. I must point out, a good friend of mine recently bought one for his SA 1911 in stainless, and it is scratching his finish a little bit, if you worry about that sort of thing.

I use mine strictly for competition though, all my carry holsters are still leather or nylon. I can't say I won't switch to Kydex down the road.

If you buy leather, I would suggest buying two of the same holster (if for concealed carry), and never wearing the same one two days in a row. This will keep the leather from breaking down as quickly.

Safariland product referenced above. best price I've found. Return if you don't like it with their "no questions asked" return style. (http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#safariland%205187____-_1-2-4_8-16-32)

TAZ

08-07-10, 20:44

Its good to do some research and get people's opinions, but dont get your hopes up too high on minimizing that box of holsters that didnt work out for you. In the end its going to have to fit your body and carry mode, not ours.

I primarily carry IWB in The TX heat and have used both leather (Sparks VM2) and Kydex (Comp-Tac and Raven). Both work very well for me and my G21 so long as the holster comes from a quality maker. My current EDC rig is a Raven Phantom for the G21+X300. Have 2 one set up for IWB for carry outside the hime and a second OWB for around the house after work and such. IWB I can make the G21+X300 and a spare mag invisible to all with nothing but a loose fitting T-Shirt. Given the heat, humidity and amount of water I loose each day I lean towards Kydex now days.

Pros for Kydex: Fast to draw. Easy to reholster (rarely do they collapse). Low maintenance. No break in. Easy to adjust tension if you get one with a screw. Sweat proof.

Cons for Kydex: Wears the finish much faster than leather especially if you use grip tape or anything like that to enhance your grip. That sand can get in there and pretty much trash your gun fast. The draw speed can be a bad thing in retention exercises. Not a deal breaker, but something you should be aware of. Retention is aweseome in all my rigs for all but summer saults and stuff. Loud. There is really no way a complete kydex rig can be used to stealthily draw a gun. There is a distinct sound to the draw stroke.

One more thing to remember is that the belt is just as important to comfortable and concealed carry as the holster. I use Wilderness 5 stitch instructors belts for the most part.

Hope this helps...

oboe

08-07-10, 21:57

. . . drawer full of holsters . . . this sounds like wives, and I hope it's not as expensive:lol:

padwan

08-07-10, 23:49

I've used holsters made of Kydex and leather. These days I prefer leather for both IWB and OWB.

In IWB, I liked how the Ghurka from Comp Tac rode and it was quite comfortable out of the bag. The Kramer IWB3 was less so when it was new, but like a pair of jeans, the Kramer eventually conformed to my body type. The adjustable loops also allow me to shift between belts of different widths, and this makes dressing around the pistol easier for me.

I can no longer carry IWB now due to sciatica but even with OWB's, it seems that I can conceal a leather rig better than a Kydex version. I haven't tried one of Raven's Phantoms though.

What I am looking forward to trying is the Askins pattern scabbard that Ken Hackathorn used in the last Drakes Landing pistol classes. It seems to ride lower than the usual Askins Avenger and for my body type, it looks like a winner. Dinger is trying to ID the maker of that rig but for now, an Alessi CQC/S works just fine.

In terms of speed, drawing from a Kydex rig feels faster but the timer tells me my performance difference is still close to my runs with a leather rig.

For magazine carriers though, I still like Kydex. The Combo Pouch with a paddle attachment from Blade Tech is especially handy as I don't have to maintain a separate set of carriers for 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" belts.

I think we all eventually end up with a drawer-full of holsters but with I think we can possibly keep the size of the drawer modest. (I can dream can't I?):D

Good luck on your search.

SeaSoldier

08-08-10, 08:13

I believe Hackathorn uses a Sparks #1AT that is altered to his spec.

ColdDeadHands

08-08-10, 10:13

imho if you are looking for a iwb holster go with leather - it conceals generally much better then kydex. I had a super thin Walther PPS that I carried in a Mtac and it made it really bulky.

Rosco Benson

08-08-10, 10:17

Leather IWB holsters "cling" to one's clothing more than kydex does and thus don't pull down one's belt so much. This advantage is most evident with rough-out leather. However, the rough-out leather soaks up sweat very badly. No free lunch, here or elsewhere.

I've seen various attempts at making the kydex IWB's less "slick" in this regard (leather glued to them, etc). I've found that putting a wide rubber band or two around the kydex IWB's body helps as much as anything.

This issue is less noticeable with pistols that are lightweight.

Rosco

Alpha Sierra

08-08-10, 20:46

A nicely made leather holster will have Kydex-like rigidity when it is new. As it is broken in, it will soften and bend in key points (such as in the side flanges, where the snap loops should be mounted for weight distribution, and in the tail flange, if it has one), so that it molds itself to your shape, according to the position you wear it in, providing superior comfort for extended wear (and comfort IS important to concealment). As well, it will retain most of that rigidity through the scabbard portion, so that it will continue to provide desirable retention, draw, and reholstering characteristics. Kydex doesn't really break-in so much. A look at any "hybrid" type holster readily illustrates that makers of them understand the virtues of leather. Otherwise, they'd make their holsters from Kydex only, or some other synthetic.
This is exactly why I use leather holsters 100% of the time.

My IWBs are Lobo Gunleather's IWB for my wheelguns, and Tucker Gunleather's Secret or FIST's #20 for my M&P semis.

Anyone who thinks leather holsters are slow on the draw has never used a Lobo IWB or a Tucker Secret. Both are lightning fast and completely silent.

I will add that even though I started (like most here) with a Wilderness 5 stitch belt, I have abandoned it too in favor of leather gun belt. I have belts from both The Beltman and A&G Custom Leather and they both have a load carrying ability that a Wilderness belt cannot match.

Gombey

08-08-10, 21:23

I only have two holsters, a blackhawk for OWB and The Shaggy for IWB. So as you can see I have no experience with all leather holsters.

That said I like the way the kydex locks my firearm into place. The "click" makes me feel secure. I like the leather backing on the Shaggy, it negates the feeling of plastic on skin. The only downside I can think of (with all leather) is the colour transfer. The leather backing stained one of my undershirts.

I hope that helps a little.

padwan

08-09-10, 05:04

I believe Hackathorn uses a Sparks #1AT that is altered to his spec.

The one he wore with his Novak 1911 was an early CC-AT. That design eventually evolved into the current CC-AT.

The rig I am curious about is the one he wore with a G17. It looks like a regular Askins Avenger pattern until you see how low it rides on the belt. It has a tension screw close to the muzzle end, along with a reinforced mouth. Simple yet interesting...

JohnN

08-09-10, 11:45

I've had occasion to use both for quite a few years and really prefer kydex. Leather is more comfortable but for hot weather IWB use horsehide is much more sweat resistant. After taking several classes with cowhide IWB holsters and pretty much soaking them through I generally prefer kydex.

I am surprised more custom kydex makers don't put a leather backing on IWB holsters to make them more user friendly. The leather backing does make AIWB use more comfy without an undershirt.

http://a.imageshack.us/img831/5181/copyofimg0267.jpg
http://a.imageshack.us/img402/5996/img0263a.jpg
CCC Shaggy w/comfort shield

Seraph

08-09-10, 12:41

This is exactly why I use leather holsters 100% of the time.

My IWBs are Lobo Gunleather's IWB for my wheelguns, and Tucker Gunleather's Secret or FIST's #20 for my M&P semis.

Anyone who thinks leather holsters are slow on the draw has never used a Lobo IWB or a Tucker Secret. Both are lightning fast and completely silent.

I will add that even though I started (like most here) with a Wilderness 5 stitch belt, I have abandoned it too in favor of leather gun belt. I have belts from both The Beltman and A&G Custom Leather and they both have a load carrying ability that a Wilderness belt cannot match.

Yep. Most of the complaints I've heard or read, regarding leather carry gear, have usually made me think that the complainer was either using the wrong gear, or using the gear wrong, or maybe both.

About the Wilderness belts, and similar, I agree that a proper leather gun belt is to be preferred, but I would offer that the Wilderness 5 stitch and CSM belts are better than a mediocre leather belt. Even a "heavy duty" leather belt (to most people, it seems making a leather belt "heavy duty" means making one that is REALLY thick), that hasn't been made specifically and properly to support the suspension of a holstered sidearm and its accessories, falls short of the Wilderness CSM type belt. In other words, I'd rather have the Wilderness belt, than the $40 "heavy duty" leather belt I saw at the biker gear shop.

In a similar manner, a mediocre leather holster, selected and used for its apparent economy, will tend to impart a negative impression of leather holsters in general on its user. I have some very fine leather holsters, that are also very very used. In spite of having seen some abuse, including getting truly soaked, with sweat or rainwater, these holsters continue to serve very well (and still look pretty damned good, too, btw). At the same time, there are some leather holsters that enjoy some popularity, that I wouldn't bother with.

Blinking Dog

08-09-10, 15:28

As it is broken in, it will soften and bend in key points (such as in the side flanges, where the snap loops should be mounted for weight distribution, and in the tail flange, if it has one), so that it molds itself to your shape, according to the position you wear it in, providing superior comfort for extended wear (and comfort IS important to concealment).

I'm on a rally for the small guy lately...and this point is exactly my issue with Kydex. From my belly button to my back isn't very deep, so for me to carry at 3:30 (which I prefer) I need either a very minimalistic holster, or something that will bend and adjust to my body. I have found that with leather (esp. VMII). The minimalistic holsters I've tried haven't given me peace of mind that my gun won't shift.

And I agree, without comfort you're likely to fidget or check and re-check, which draws attention...