Caracal Pistols, state side?

[gtmtnbiker98]

Rumor has, they are arriving. Curious to see how they will do.

[Sry0fcr]

You know as well as I do that it won't be a commercial success.

[GermanSynergy]

:rolleyes:They'll sell about as well as the Steyr M series.....

[HK51Fan]

I'm not familiar with this pistol....

[HK51Fan]

Just looked up the pistol. The upper slide looks like an HK P7. Not sure about the grip, looks a bit large. The fit and finish seems top notch.
looks like a nice pistol.

For the record I like the Steyr pistol and I believe they're going to be bringing them in again.

[dvdlpzus]

Honestly, it is one of the best looking polymer pistols out there.

[scjbash]

To me it looks like an XD with a lower profile slide. I actually really like the feel of XD's, and the Caracal looks to have a much lower bore axis, so I'm a little interested.

[Seraph]

Indeed, it does have a super low bore axis. That's what makes some people think the grip is large when they see it in photos. In fact, it's not as large as a Glock 17. The Caracal C is the one I like, and I think a lot of people will find it irresistible. It's a wee bit smaller than a Glock 19, with the same capacity, and has a nice balanced feel to it, due to the cassette-like steel frame insert, which they call the "steel construction unit." These are nice shooting pistols.

[Entropy]

Looks like a neat pistol, but the question is will it be as reliable and dependable as what is currently available. Unfortunately, Mr. Bubits designed the pistol with that stock attachement at the price of having interchangible back straps.

[Entropy]

Honestly, it is one of the best looking polymer pistols out there.

I couldn't help but notice your signature:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7M-7LkvcVw

Enjoy ;)

[dvdlpzus]

I couldn't help but notice your signature:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7M-7LkvcVw

Enjoy ;)

Unfortunately we are a long ways from our founders desires. That is exactly what Fran Lebowitz explains in his writing and he uses capitalism as the reason we have becomed an oligarchy.

I disagree with various points of the video but this is no place to discuss it.

That Carcal pistol looks sexy! :D

[Business_Casual]

The Caracal pistol is a series of semi-automatic pistols manufactured by Caracal International L.L.C.[1] a subsidiary of Tawazun Holding from the United Arab Emirates. Newly arrived on a competitive market, the Caracal pistol series are the first pistols made in the United Arab Emirates.

In 2007, Tawazun Holding L.L.C. - the wholly-owned subsidiary of the United Arab Emirates Offset Program Bureau (OPB) - has acquired the assets of Caracal International.[2]


I'll pass. It looks like a Glock with none of the ubiquity and accessory aftermarket support.

B_C

[TheSmiter1]

Indeed, it does have a super low bore axis. That's what makes some people think the grip is large when they see it in photos. In fact, it's not as large as a Glock 17. The Caracal C is the one I like, and I think a lot of people will find it irresistible. It's a wee bit smaller than a Glock 19, with the same capacity, and has a nice balanced feel to it, due to the cassette-like steel frame insert, which they call the "steel construction unit." These are nice shooting pistols.

Have you fired one? I'm definitely interested in these.

[Seraph]

Have you fired one? I'm definitely interested in these.

I have fired a Caracal F, and a Caracal C (the Caracal C was equipped with the "Quick See" sights). The Quick See sights were neat, and they do what they're intended to do, but I preferred the standard sights that were on the F model. Both pistols were apparently nicely made, and shot well, with trigger pull characteristics that a lot of Glock owners pay good money to get from aftermarket parts. Overall, I liked the C model best, as I found it very Glock 19-like, though very slightly more compact.

[Seraph]

I'll pass. It looks like a Glock with none of the ubiquity and accessory aftermarket support.

B_C

Of course, you're right that it won't boast the ubiquity of Glock, a pistol that has enjoyed 20+ years of proliferation. A few years ago, the same could have been said for the M&P, and the XD. 20 years ago, it could have been said of Glock. I won't be trading in my Glock 19's for Caracal C's, by any means, but I might pick up a Caracal C or two, just because.

[Business_Casual]

Of course, you're right that it won't boast the ubiquity of Glock, a pistol that has enjoyed 20+ years of proliferation. A few years ago, the same could have been said for the M&P, and the XD. 20 years ago, it could have been said of Glock. I won't be trading in my Glock 19's for Caracal C's, by any means, but I might pick up a Caracal C or two, just because.

Fair enough, I'm not a gun collector, I'm a shooter. But I try to pay attention because I don't want to end up missing a genuine step forward. Shrug.

B_C

[sfguard]

I kinda like the way they look. I would like to hold one just to get a good idea for the "feel" of them

[rubberneck]

Fair enough, I'm not a gun collector, I'm a shooter. But I try to pay attention because I don't want to end up missing a genuine step forward. Shrug.

B_C

Since the introduction of the Glock there hasn't been a "genuine step" forward in design IMHO. There have been variations on a theme with some being much better than others but nothing revolutionary. I'd be willing to give this gun a shot as it was designed by one of the more innovative minds in the gun business Willie Bubits.

[Seraph]

Fair enough, I'm not a gun collector, I'm a shooter. But I try to pay attention because I don't want to end up missing a genuine step forward. Shrug.

B_C

I'm not much of either, myself. Used to be a bit of a shooter. I do believe in carrying a really solid sidearm, but guns are not only tools to me (they are primarily tools, but not ONLY tools). I don't like guns that aren't worthy and useful, but I like guns, beyond their utility. When I find something really solid, that I like, such as a Glock 19, for instance, I tend to start comparing it to similar things. Sometimes, I find one of those similar things interesting enough to buy it. Since I don't like selling my guns, I end up collecting them, by default (unlike a true collector, though, I would never buy a gun ONLY because it's interesting). Fortunately, poverty keeps me in check, by forcing me to be selective, deliberate, and frugal. I don't think I would call the Caracal a big step forward, but, judging by the couple of pistols I've seen, it seems to be a nicely executed example of the state of the art, at least (if you can excuse the lack of interchangeable backstraps, that is). It's interesting enough to me, that I'll check it out, and maybe buy a pair of them, in spite of the fact that I already have some really solid sidearms.

[ck1]

I'm in line for a Caracal F when they're available (should be soon) and I'll post a review after I get it.

I'm a Glock 9mm true believer so my standards are pretty high, aside from a Glock 17/19/34 my second favorite pistols are the Steyr M9-A1's so I've been waiting to get my hands on a Caracal for a while...

Bubits was the main influence behind both the Glocks and the Steyr M's (Gaston designed curtain-rods and tea cups, he hired guys like Bubits to design his firearms) and the Caracal looks to be a modern updated hybrid of both of those designs which sounds pretty good, actually less parts and complication than a Glock with the ergo influences of the Steyr's could be a very good recipe (the Steyr's grip fits just about everyone perfect without any changeable backstrap systems involved, and well Glocks are Glocks, they go bang).

[Norinco]

Any idea who will be distributing the Caracal??

[ck1]

Any idea who will be distributing the Caracal??

Waffen Werks out of Knoxville, TN is importing them. Email them to get on the list for when the guns are available, they're going to contact those on the list first then they'll go out to distributors after that (who knows how many will be left though?), they'll probably be around $550-600 more or less.
From what i've found online, Waffen Werks imported the HS2000/XD's before Springfield took over so they seem legit, hope to see the Caracals soon.

[Norinco]

Thanks for the info ck1.

[dvdlpzus]

I sent an e-mail to A. Taylor asking when they are going to become available and price range. I will keep you posted of any reply.

[CaracalUSA]

Hello guys. First and fore most we are not the company that imported the HS 2000. Intrac Arms was the company that did that. We are a new American owed company based in Knoxville, TN. We are dedicated solely to the promotion of the Caracal pistol and it's accessories. This is an excellent pistol and is a must shoot for everyone. We are expecting our first shipment in this week and they should be available for delivery the following Monday. Please check us out on Facebook and we should have http://www.caracalusa.com up to speed soon.

Thanks, Troy Sellars
Director of Operation
Caracal USA

[TOrrock]

Good to see you here Troy.

[dvdlpzus]

We are expecting our first shipment in this week and they should be available for delivery the following Monday. Please check us out on Facebook and we should have http://www.caracalusa.com up to speed soon.

Thanks, Troy Sellars
Director of Operation
Caracal USA

Very happy to see you here Mr. Sellars. How many will the first batch be? How much will they be going for? Thank you for your time.

[CaracalUSA]

Our fist batch is around 250 the subsequent batches will be at least doubled with a total of around 5000 shortly after the first of the year. I would expect dealer sales to be no more than 599.00 depending on variations. We are starting out slow but hopefully are going to gain speed quick!!!

Thanks, Troy

[HK51Fan]

I'll be onboard for a full size model.

[CaracalUSA]

I'll be onboard for a full size model.

Great I'll keep everyone updated.

Troy

[eternal24k]

I am definitely onboard.
What's in customs hands at the moment?

[dvdlpzus]

Any updates? CaracalUSA.com is still blank.

Mr. Troy Sellar, can you give us a heads up of how things are going, please? I am sure most of M4Carbine is curious the least

[kartoffel]

I'm on the fence with these things. On one hand, I LOVE my Steyr M9-A1 and think the Caracal is another interesting example Bubits' design. On the other hand, the Caracal probably doesn't share any parts with the Steyr, and it comes from a fairly un-friendly country.

[Heavy Metal]

Hello guys. First and fore most we are not the company that imported the HS 2000. Intrac Arms was the company that did that. We are a new American owed company based in Knoxville, TN. We are dedicated solely to the promotion of the Caracal pistol and it's accessories. This is an excellent pistol and is a must shoot for everyone. We are expecting our first shipment in this week and they should be available for delivery the following Monday. Please check us out on Facebook and we should have http://www.caracalusa.com up to speed soon.

Thanks, Troy Sellars
Director of Operation
Caracal USA

And to think I was wondering if Troy knows anything about these since he is in Knoxville too.

I guess that answered my question didn't it?:D

[Heavy Metal]

Troy,

What kind of finish does it have and what kind of sight and holster options will it have?

[CaracalUSA]

We have Caracals in hand. We are waiting on a few more forms to clear and the insurance company's approval. We are still building the website.

They have a finish similar to tennifer/melonite on other pistols but it is smooth. The have standard type sights and quick sights. Blackhawk has holsters already. I will have samples headed out to the Safariland companies too.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Thanks, Troy

[skyugo]

cool. i'd certainly like to shoot one. maybe purchase. i'm heavily invested (at least by my standards) in glock 9mm.

[Captain_Smollet]

People are optimists :) Why to import another Glock 17 knockoff produced in 3rd world ME country ?

How low the price tag got to be ?

Once it was one and only - the Glock, then Sigma came, then HS2000/XD and SmithWesson / Walther P99s, eventually M&P was introduced. And why should we forget the SR9 from Ruger (if you want US Made with low price tag and good quality).


“Between the optimist and the pessimist, the difference is droll. The optimist sees the doughnut; the pessimist the hole!” Oscar Wilde:lazy2:

[sadmin]

People are optimists :) Why to import another Glock 17 knockoff produced in 3rd world ME country ?

How low the price tag got to be ?

Once it was one and only - the Glock, then Sigma came, then HS2000/XD and SmithWesson / Walther P99s, eventually M&P was introduced. And why should we forget the SR9 from Ruger (if you want US Made with low price tag and good quality).


“Between the optimist and the pessimist, the difference is droll. The optimist sees the doughnut; the pessimist the hole!” Oscar Wilde:lazy2:

I have no response to that...
Thanks for the update Troy.

[CaracalUSA]

Fine, Let's all drive Fords or Chevys. LOL! Actually I own at least one of all those except the sigma. This is a very interesting new pistol. The low recoil is amazing compared to others in it's class. It has fewer parts AND it's something new if you have all the others. Well I might go out and run a few rounds through my samples today? I'll keep all posted and if you have any questions please ask!!!! That's what I'm here for

Thanks,
Troy Sellars

[120mm]

and it comes from a fairly un-friendly country.


People are optimists :) Why to import another Glock 17 knockoff produced in 3rd world ME country ?


Don't want to make this another political thread on the Caracal, but the above two statements are just ignorant and wrong.

[rubberneck]

I always find it puzzling when gun owners bitch about having more options rather than less. They bitch about every new piston gun. They bitch about every new polymer pistol. They bitch about every new rail system or match trigger. Any time someone goes through the effort to give them additional alternatives they bitch. Maybe I am stuck on stupid but I always thought that having more options works in favor of the consumer. Competition tends to force innovation and more importantly it acts to control the price.

[Captain_Smollet]

Technically speaking - number of parts in modern semi autos is nothing to be afraid of, especially when total number of parts in G17 is 33 and Caracal , after removing standard slide stop (on Caracal its made of PLASTIC and its integral part of a frame) has 28 parts in it.

Any way , the time will show what will be the fate of another wanna be Glock. :dance3::big_boss:

2nd Amendment created the biggest firearms market in the world, there is a place for everyone.

[Captain_Smollet]

Originally Posted by Captain_Smollet
People are optimists Why to import another Glock 17 knockoff produced in 3rd world ME country ?


Don't want to make this another political thread on the Caracal, but the above two statements are just ignorant and wrong.

Caracal produced in UAE - United Arab Emmirates - 3rd world Feudal state, or to be exact a confederation of states. Its located in ME.

So whats is wrong about my statement ? Its not about politics, its geography :happy:

[TOrrock]

Knock off the thread drift right now. The last Caracal thread got torpedoed by the same shit.

First, and last warning Captain_Smollet.

[Seraph]

Technically speaking - number of parts in modern semi autos is nothing to be afraid of, especially when total number of parts in G17 is 33 and Caracal , after removing standard slide stop (on Caracal its made of PLASTIC and its integral part of a frame) has 28 parts in it.

Any way , the time will show what will be the fate of another wanna be Glock. :dance3::big_boss:

2nd Amendment created the biggest firearms market in the world, there is a place for everyone.

Sorry, Ace, but you're completely wrong about the slide stop. If you'd ever seen a Caracal pistol in person, you'd know the slide stop is steel, and is NOT integral to the frame.

[Captain_Smollet]

Seraph en-light me (http://caracalconsulting.nuxit.net/caracal-pistol-pictures/page4.html) :dirol: please

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu265/nobita7/defence2009/10uae1.jpg

I'll be glad to learn something new . But as much as I can see It looks like the polymer of the frame acts as the spring for small metal part ???
:moil:

[buzz_knox]

And to think I was wondering if Troy knows anything about these since he is in Knoxville too.

I guess that answered my question didn't it?:D

He gave it away in a Facebook post. He said he was getting involved with introducing a new pistol and was going to Dubai on business. Dubai + pistol + Troy = Caracal.

I may have to take a look at this one. Since the company is literally walking distance from where I am writing this, it's too bad they likely won't have a storefront I can check out.

[kartoffel]

Don't want to make this another political thread on the Caracal, but the above two statements are just ignorant and wrong.

Incorrect. The UAE has a despicable human rights record and they harbor Islamic extremists. I wouldn't buy an Austrian made pistol if it was the year 1939, and I wouldn't buy an Emirati pistol made in 2010. For the very same reasons.

If I'm "wrong" because you simply disagree with me, please admit it. I can accept that and move on.

If on the other hand you think I'm truly "ignorant", please explain how aiding the enemy is a good idea.

[TheSmiter1]

Incorrect. The UAE has a despicable human rights record and they harbor Islamic extremists. I wouldn't buy an Austrian made pistol if it was the year 1939, and I wouldn't buy an Emirati pistol made in 2010. For the very same reasons.

If I'm "wrong" because you simply disagree with me, please admit it. I can accept that and move on.

If on the other hand you think I'm truly "ignorant", please explain how aiding the enemy is a good idea.

Please stop the political nonsense.

[TOrrock]

Move the **** on people.

[Seraph]

Seraph en-light me (http://caracalconsulting.nuxit.net/caracal-pistol-pictures/page4.html) :dirol: please

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu265/nobita7/defence2009/10uae1.jpg

I'll be glad to learn something new . But as much as I can see It looks like the polymer of the frame acts as the spring for small metal part ???
:moil:

I dont' know if I can enlighten you, but I can tell you a little about the slide stop on the Caracal, because I've held them in my hands, and fired them. That raised area on the side of the polymer frame merely houses the slide stop lever, which is itself a separate part, formed of stamped steel. The 3D exploded view of the pistol, shown at your "en-light me" link, shows that very clearly, but more importantly, I've seen it first-hand, and fired the pistol, and used the slide stop.

[Captain_Smollet]

So my assumption is correct - plastic of the frame is acting like a "spring" ?

[TheSmiter1]

So my assumption is correct - plastic of the frame is acting like a "spring" ?

Not even close. Look at the diagram that you posted. You can clearly see the slide stop lever and spring, and how they are housed within the frame. I would point them out to you if I could, but I can't do it over the internet. Simply look at the 'chassis' thing, and look for a device similar in fashion to the Glock slide stop lever and spring. It's pretty easy to see.

The section of plastic that you are referring to merely houses the lever and spring.

[Captain_Smollet]

Okey , so why there is a gap inside the frame under this "slide stop housing"? (as much I can see at the diagram) ?

[Seraph]

So my assumption is correct - plastic of the frame is acting like a "spring" ?

No, sir.

[Seraph]

Okey , so why there is a gap inside the frame under this "slide stop housing"? (as much I can see at the diagram) ?

So that the follower of the empty magazine can push upward on the bottom of the slide stop lever, to lock the slide back once your magazine is empty.

[TheSmiter1]

Okey , so why there is a gap inside the frame under this "slide stop housing"? (as much I can see at the diagram) ?

Most of the lever appears to be within the frame. The gap appears to be for the user-control section of the lever (the section that your thumb presses).

If you are referring to the section of the frame that is made to house the slide stop lever, the reason that this exists is that usually a slide stop lever rests on the frame of the pistol. This is not the case with the Caracal, however, as the slide stop lever is clearly attached to the chassis thing, and does not rest at all on the frame, but instead appears to ride completely between the frame and chassis. Usually the lever will go over the frame to be exposed, as in a Glock or M&P.

That's how it appears to me, anyway.

Either way you look at it, it is simply an area in the frame for the slide stop lever, and has nothing to do with the actual function of the lever and spring, which are totally different parts.

[skyugo]

troy, will all the parts for this pistol be available to the end user? how much will mags be? night sights available soon? (or already)

street price of the gun itself?

[Seraph]

Most of the lever appears to be within the frame. The gap appears to be for the user-control section of the lever (the section that your thumb presses).

If you are referring to the section of the frame that is made to house the slide stop lever, the reason that this exists is that usually a slide stop lever rests on the frame of the pistol. This is not the case with the Caracal, however, as the slide stop lever is clearly attached to the chassis thing, and does not rest at all on the frame.

That's how it appears to me, anyway.

Either way you look at it, it is simply an area in the frame for the slide stop lever, and has nothing to do with the actual function of the lever and spring, which are totally different parts.

Correct. The slide stop of the Caracal pistol is mounted to what they call the "steel construction unit." The whole raised contour on the side of the polymer frame is there simply to make room for the slide stop lever.

[Captain_Smollet]

So that the follower of the empty magazine can push upward on the bottom of the slide stop lever, to lock the slide back once your magazine is empty.


I don't think that we are talking about the same gap , I marked the suspicious area with the red color

[Seraph]

I don't think that we are talking about the same gap , I marked the suspicious area with the red color

OK... that's not a gap. It's just a shadow.

[TheSmiter1]

I don't think that we are talking about the same gap , I marked the suspicious area with the red color

I explained this area in my previous post. This is to make room for the slide stop lever to move freely, as it is attached to the chassis, and needs room to move.

[Captain_Smollet]

OK... that's not a gap. It's just a shadow.

Mystery solved:help::moil::secret:

[TheSmiter1]

OK... that's not a gap. It's just a shadow.

He was referring to the contoured area that was discussed in our previous posts. I think he understands now.

It's a very interesting design.

[kartoffel]

Knock off the thread drift right now. The last Caracal thread got torpedoed by the same shit.

First, and last warning Captain_Smollet.

Agreed.

As for the pistol, it looks promising. I love the original Steyr guns with only a few reservations. Considering the heritage of the Caracal you can't help but compare it to a Steyr. Below are issues I would consider about purchasing a Caracal that have nothing to do with political correctness.

1) CDNN Steyrs had issues with reliable extraction. They pretty much needed a revised extractor straight out of the box before anything else. To SAI's credit, they sent out new extractors as long as they were available and were very supportive... but there were stretches where SAI's spares supply ran out and end users were left with downed weapons. As long as Waffen Werks is bringing in a good supply of spare parts to support the Caracals, these new pistols should be serviceable for now. Advantage: Steyr....until Waffen Werks / Caracal USA establishes a track record for parts and service.

2) The original Steyr grip profile (on the sides) doesn't work well with a modern thumbs-forward isometric grip. The Caracals looks a little better in this regard. Advantage: Caracal.

3) SAI is the exclusive US importer for Merkel, which happens to be owned by none other than Caracal. I don't know what if any relationship Waffen Werks has with SAI, or if SAI's gig importing the Merkel brand has any relationship to the Caracal brand.

4) Waffen Werks was (was down the road from? friends with?) the original importer of HS2000 pistols back in the day. Just a single data point, but it does suggest WW has a knack for being the first to market with hot new products. (Fingers crossed the MSRP on Caracals will be similar to pre-Springfield HS2000!) :D

EDIT: I don't know about #4 above any more. There's a post on TFL claiming a connection between Intrac and Mr. Sellars, but maybe that was false. Makes sense to file a new d/b/a for a new business angle, but then on the other hand all parties are local to Knoxville, so it's natural that everyone would know everyone else there. As for Waffen Werks being involved, that's 100% confirmed:

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/WaffenWerks/IMG_5405.jpg

[CaracalUSA]

First off guys we/I am in no way associated with Intrac. I did some repairs for them and I built some AMD 65s for them years ago but Intrac is LOOOONG gone. We are not associated with any other pistol company. Caracal U.A.E. is in a group with Steyr, Merkel etc. We are a new privately owned company. Waffen Werks is the importer for us for now till we get farther down the road.

We will have spare parts soon. I don't think we will need anything though? Magazines are on the way. We will have Night sighted pistols soon. Trijicon will have samples by the end of the week. I would guess actual retail in the 599.99-625.00 range?

More to follow.
Thanks, Troy

[dvdlpzus]

I would guess actual retail in the 599.99-625.00 range?

With that price tag I'll definitely need to shoot it first and be able to shoot it better then the few I currently have. I am sure that a lot or marketing will be needed to sell a new comer at that price.

[kartoffel]

First off guys we/I am in no way associated with Intrac. I did some repairs for them and I built some AMD 65s for them years ago but Intrac is LOOOONG gone. We are not associated with any other pistol company. Caracal U.A.E. is in a group with Steyr, Merkel etc. We are a new privately owned company. Waffen Werks is the importer for us for now till we get farther down the road.

We will have spare parts soon. I don't think we will need anything though? Magazines are on the way. We will have Night sighted pistols soon. Trijicon will have samples by the end of the week. I would guess actual retail in the 599.99-625.00 range?

More to follow.
Thanks, Troy

Thanks for the info Troy. I'm really itching to check one of these things out in person. I won't hold ya to that price, but it does sound competitive with the new batch of Steyrs that are coming in. Trijicon night sights are a major bonus, too! I never really got 100% comfortable with the old trapezoid sights.


With that price tag I'll definitely need to shoot it first and be able to shoot it better then the few I currently have. I am sure that a lot or marketing will be needed to sell a new comer at that price.

Maybe this is a poor analogy, but Caracal USA is sort of in the same position as Microtech Small Arms Research (MSAR). Both are offering variations on legendary Steyr designs. You can buy an authentic AUG from Steyr, or you can pick up an StG-E4 from MSAR that accepts regular AR mags and has a few other improvements versus the original. There's a similar situation with Steyr pistols vs. Caracal.

Plus, despite Steyr's small market penetration in the US, those in the know tend to be HUGE fans. It's as if John Moses Browning moved to (insert controversial country here) and invented an improved 1911.

[skyugo]

First off guys we/I am in no way associated with Intrac. I did some repairs for them and I built some AMD 65s for them years ago but Intrac is LOOOONG gone. We are not associated with any other pistol company. Caracal U.A.E. is in a group with Steyr, Merkel etc. We are a new privately owned company. Waffen Werks is the importer for us for now till we get farther down the road.

We will have spare parts soon. I don't think we will need anything though? Magazines are on the way. We will have Night sighted pistols soon. Trijicon will have samples by the end of the week. I would guess actual retail in the 599.99-625.00 range?

More to follow.
Thanks, Troy


cool.
how's the trigger compare to glock?

[Beat Trash]

Someone here is just going to have to take one for the team, buy one of these things, shoot the crap out of it, and let us know...

I'd volunteer, but all my money currently goes to my divorce attorney and soon to be ex-wife.

[sniperfrog]

Someone here is just going to have to take one for the team, buy one of these things, shoot the crap out of it, and let us know...

I'd volunteer, but all my money currently goes to my divorce attorney and soon to be ex-wife.

I already shot the shit out of two of them. I know the guy that is importing the Caracal and he's the same guy that imported the HS2000. These were the first two Caracals in the US. It was about 6 or 7 months ago. I shot a compact model, which I really liked, and the full size model. It fits really well in my rather small hands. Sits pretty low so recoil is very controllable. The compact I shot had the rear sight milled into the slide but I think they've changed that. I think it's a pretty good design but could use a few improvements which I think have already been addressed.


We had a few malfunctions with the full size gun which, if I remember correctly, were stovepipes.

[CaracalUSA]

Sniperfrog, This company is in no way, shape, fashion or form related to the company that imported the HS2000? I don't know where you keep getting that. You might have shot the two sample pistols that have been here for a bit but we have released NO production pistols. The ONLY malfunctions that we have seen was with Silver Bear 145 gr. HP. But these did not function my Glock? Who had these when you shot them?

Thank you,
Troy Sellars
Director of Operations
Caracal USA

[Beat Trash]

CaracalUSA,

Are all of the first few shipments going to be the full size gun?

Wikipedia search lists a C model and a SC model.

Are there future plans to import either or both the C and the SC model into the US?

[CaracalUSA]

Double post again. My laptop and this site just can't get along? LOL!

[CaracalUSA]

No, this first shipment was 50/50 with Fs and Cs. We can't bring in the SC yet.

Thanks, Troy

[John_Wayne777]

You know, if you need to send a couple of guns and 50,000 rounds of ammo to somebody to do a torture test and write it up...I'm available.

Just sayin'.

:D

[CaracalUSA]

You know, if you need to send a couple of guns and 50,000 rounds of ammo to somebody to do a torture test and write it up...I'm available.

Just sayin'.

:D

I would love to have 50,000 rounds!!!:D

[dvdlpzus]

I would love to have 50,000 rounds!!!:D

Let's make it 10,000 rounds and I'll volunteer. It is imperative to know the Caracal's reliability and durability. ;)

[sniperfrog]

Sniperfrog, This company is in no way, shape, fashion or form related to the company that imported the HS2000? I don't know where you keep getting that. You might have shot the two sample pistols that have been here for a bit but we have released NO production pistols. The ONLY malfunctions that we have seen was with Silver Bear 145 gr. HP. But these did not function my Glock? Who had these when you shot them?

Thank you,
Troy Sellars
Director of Operations
Caracal USA

IM sent.

[CaracalUSA]

Thanks, PM sent back

Troy

[CaracalUSA]

Sorry about the photos. I left my camera at home and had to shoot these with my I phone.

Troy Sellars
Director of Operations
Caracal USA

Caracal shipping boxes
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/INRANGEinc/caracal/caracalboxes.jpg

Caracal pistol boxes
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/INRANGEinc/caracal/caracalpistolbox.jpg

Caracal F package
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/INRANGEinc/caracal/fullsizecaracal.jpg

Caracal CQS package
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/INRANGEinc/caracal/caracalcinbox.jpg

[HK51Fan]

Someone here is just going to have to take one for the team, buy one of these things, shoot the crap out of it, and let us know...

I'd volunteer, but all my money currently goes to my divorce attorney and soon to be ex-wife.

I'd volunteer, but now that i'm single all of my money is going towards strippers and ammunition!! :suicide:

[HK51Fan]

Sorry about the photos. I left my camera at home and had to shoot these with my I phone.

Troy Sellars
Director of Operations
Caracal USA

Caracal shipping boxes
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/INRANGEinc/caracal/caracalboxes.jpg

Caracal pistol boxes
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/INRANGEinc/caracal/caracalpistolbox.jpg




Caracal F package
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/INRANGEinc/caracal/fullsizecaracal.jpg

Caracal CQS package
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/INRANGEinc/caracal/caracalcinbox.jpg

So what is the M4carbine member's price? I'm interested in an F package? ;)

[CaracalUSA]

We have an agreement with another forum on pricing. If you will do a little searching you can find it.

Thanks, Troy

[dvdlpzus]

We have an agreement with another forum on pricing. If you will do a little searching you can find it.

Thanks, Troy

No deal will be made for M4Carbine members then? :(

[CaracalUSA]

Don't take it that way. We are still waiting on our insurance company so we can't sell them for a bit any way. I'm working with my boss to get you guys forum pricing. I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks, Troy

[Heavy Metal]

Hey Troy,

What about Mag availability and pricing?

[CaracalUSA]

Each pistol comes with three 18 round magazines for the F and three 15 round magazines for the C. We are waiting on our order of spare magazines. I'm not sure on pricing but they should be competitively priced with any new steel quality magazine.

Thanks, Troy

[rubberneck]

Does the compact model still come with the rear sight milled into the slide or has the design changed to offer the more traditional sight cuts?

[CaracalUSA]

These still have the rear sight made into the striker housing. We are working to get this changed. However we will have pistols available soon with straight 8 style Trijicon night sights. I will post some pics of the sights later.

Thanks, Troy

[rubberneck]

One last question. Have you guys been in contact with any of the bigger name holster manufacturers to get carry rigs set up for these guns. The sights and the lack of holster options are the two biggest sticking points for me. It sounds like you have a head start on the sight issues but not being able to carry a gun makes it a no go for me.


Thanks.

[CaracalUSA]

Blackhawk actually has the Serpa for it NOW. We are sending samples out to Safariland/Bainchi. Some Sig and Glock holsters will fit as well. We are carrying our personal pistols in a selection of Galco, Desantis and Old World holsters.

Thanks, Troy

[mlk18]

Does anyone have pics that show thickness? Maybe a size comparison photo with another auto?

[CaracalUSA]

The most important aspect to this pistol is the low bore axis!!! It greatly reduces recoil!!! Here it is compared to the XD/HS.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/INRANGEinc/caracal/125-2544_IMG.jpg

Here is the passive firing pin block lever. It reduces the trigger pull by being activated during normal forward movement of the trigger bar and not having to push up on a piston.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/INRANGEinc/caracal/125-2543_IMG.jpg

Here is the slide compared to an HS2000/XD. It is a bit wider.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/INRANGEinc/caracal/125-2541_IMG.jpg

Here are the standard rear sights. Yes the rear sight is made into the striker block. We are trying to get this changed to a standard dovetail. We will have straight 8 style Trijicon sights available soon. You can also see the striker in the cocked position.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/INRANGEinc/caracal/125-2538_IMG.jpg

Here is the Quick Sight on my compact. It is extremely quick to shoot. I've always been taught longer sight radius is more accurate but this thing acquires the sights EXTREMELY fast?
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/INRANGEinc/caracal/125-2539_IMG.jpg

[sniperfrog]

That compact model really surprised me with how easy it was to shoot with such a short sight radius. VERY fast to pick up the sights. I never had a problem hitting and because of how low the gun sits, you have very fast follow up shots. It was probably the best compact gun I've ever shot in regards to how easy it was to shoot really fast and hit.

When I shot these guns we ran them really hard. There was 3 of us shooting them and we put alot of rounds downrange in a short time period. I apologize for my previous post referring to malfunctions with the gun. The guy that had the issue said it was operator induced and only happened once. I couldn't remember because it was during an IDPA match.

[dvdlpzus]

How is the trigger on the Caracal? Weight, feel, reset, take-up?

[skyugo]

the grip and low bore really remind me of the hk p7...
my thumbs are within a 1/4" of the center of the bore on that thing :D

[HK51Fan]

I was thinking it might feel like a P7 when I first looked at one. I'm very interested in this weapon.....it's growing on me.

[andy_ita]

hi
i have the C model with quick sight, i use it since 1 year, changing sometime with my G19
well..the QS is really fast to acquire.. the grip is better than the glock, more slim, perfect for me that have small hands.
the barrel line is higher then the glock, the aiming is more fast, imho, expecially in close combat and in istintive fire.
i needed some time to use the qs on aiming , expecially over 20 yards. now i know how to use it.
the trigger is lighter than the glock , but the reset is a bit long..
i can post some pics compared with glock 19 if required
andy

[dvdlpzus]

hi
i have the C model with quick sight, i use it since 1 year, changing sometime with my G19
well..the QS is really fast to acquire.. the grip is better than the glock, more slim, perfect for me that have small hands.
the barrel line is higher then the glock, the aiming is more fast, imho, expecially in close combat and in istintive fire.
i needed some time to use the qs on aiming , expecially over 20 yards. now i know how to use it.
the trigger is lighter than the glock , but the reset is a bit long..
i can post some pics compared with glock 19 if required
andy

Could you compare them please?

[andy_ita]

sure..
here u have some pics

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/7007/dsc00787y.jpg (http://img813.imageshack.us/i/dsc00787y.jpg/)

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9784/dsc00789d.jpg (http://img844.imageshack.us/i/dsc00789d.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7492/dsc00790mx.jpg (http://img229.imageshack.us/i/dsc00790mx.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2852/dsc00791i.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/i/dsc00791i.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5076/dsc00792s.jpg (http://img297.imageshack.us/i/dsc00792s.jpg/)

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/9927/dsc00793hl.jpg (http://img651.imageshack.us/i/dsc00793hl.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9570/dsc00795t.jpg (http://img229.imageshack.us/i/dsc00795t.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/846/dsc00796k.jpg (http://img840.imageshack.us/i/dsc00796k.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/2926/dsc00797h.jpg (http://img827.imageshack.us/i/dsc00797h.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9445/dsc00799dl.jpg (http://img229.imageshack.us/i/dsc00799dl.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[CaracalUSA]

That bottom photo really shows the benefit of the pistol.

[dvdlpzus]

Thanks for the pictures. This gives me a great idea of what to expect. How do you like your Caracal so far? How much lighter is the trigger on the Caracal then the Glock? Which gun does the reset compare to?

P.S. Is your Glock frame internals rusting or is it just dirty?

[andy_ita]

oh well my glock is only dirty.. i shot 600 rnds last week and i have to clean it..

well
the trigger of the caracal is linear. how can i explain.
8with my scarce english)on the glock, when u pull the trigger, for the first time it is light, then u can feel the trigger became a little heavy and then it fire.

with the caracal the trigger is light from the begin to the end, like a revolver in double action.
i think.. carcal is 30% lighter than glock.

but the reset is better on the glock. after shot, the trigger of the glock have to do only few millimeters
on the caracal.. almost all the movement of the trigger
but it is ligther so the difference is not so big

this is the movement of the trigger, completly pulled, resetted and released

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/2931/dsc00799m.jpg (http://img812.imageshack.us/i/dsc00799m.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/262/dsc00800l.jpg (http://img253.imageshack.us/i/dsc00800l.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/370/dsc00801rr.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/dsc00801rr.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/4198/dsc00806uo.jpg (http://img580.imageshack.us/i/dsc00806uo.jpg/)

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3014/dsc00802h.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/i/dsc00802h.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/9769/dsc00804b.jpg (http://img251.imageshack.us/i/dsc00804b.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

this is the quick sight
im trying to take some good pics of the line of sight..but is not so easy with flash and artificial light

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3552/dsc00831n.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/dsc00831n.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1036/dsc00835d.jpg (http://img257.imageshack.us/i/dsc00835d.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[andy_ita]

well i like it.. i started to use it few months ago cause i received extra mags ..here it was sold with 2 mags only..
so.. i need to use it and learn to use it.. cause after tousand of ammo with glock... i feel the difference...light difference.. but i can feel it..
so .. i used only 5 times.. maybe 2000 rounds..but the sensation is really good..

is this pistol already sold there?

[andy_ita]

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3079/dsc00837ya.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/i/dsc00837ya.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/1125/dsc00838s.jpg (http://img685.imageshack.us/i/dsc00838s.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/1747/dsc00840c.jpg (http://img819.imageshack.us/i/dsc00840c.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[dvdlpzus]

well i like it.. i started to use it few months ago cause i received extra mags ..here it was sold with 2 mags only..
so.. i need to use it and learn to use it.. cause after tousand of ammo with glock... i feel the difference...light difference.. but i can feel it..
so .. i used only 5 times.. maybe 2000 rounds..but the sensation is really good..

is this pistol already sold there?

Not yet. It will be released late this month. Did you buy it for 700 Euros as Edmon did or did you find a better deal? How do you like the sights? Are you accurate with them? Has the Caracal been reliable to you?

[andy_ita]

well i payd 600 euro with 2 mags, but prices of guns here in italy is crazy.. i payd my 4 ar15 2000, 2750, 2300 euro..and 1000 for a norinco..
so ..

if it is realiable.. for me yes.. i bought it without try it, i waited it for months and bought 2 days after the release, 1 year ago.
and i never used for 6 months cause i had only 2 mags and 2 mags are really scarce to use..
and we havent holster. Blackhawk and Gost release the holster for caracal in may, few months ago. i bought both holster cause the Ghost was modified and can fit both caracal and glock..
but i still use serpa cause i prefear it

about the sight... well i heard a lot of good things abouth this QS..so i bought it..
and.. first time at the indoor range.. it was terrible.. i cant understood where i have to aim , how to aim.. all the shot were or too high..or too low..
now i have understood.. and yes now im accurate as with my glock
in rapid fire the QS is incredible.. very instinctive, fast.
and the line of the pistol, maybe for my hand, help me a lot.
i have only to allign the pistol at my eyes, without aim, and shoot fast ..and im on target..i did BBH starting from holster, hands in Sul position in 1.43 sec with the glock and 1.55 with caracal.. but only cause i used the glock for a long time..
im sure i can do better with caracal..

the only things i hope is the pistol can take a good market there in usa.
so in few time it will be available aftermarket and replacement parts.

[dvdlpzus]

Thanks for the information. You confirmed to me that the Caracal is a good choice. If you have any new info please let us know. I hope they become popular too to get cheap aftermarket and improvements.

[WC 2-3]

Had a chance to handle an F model with those "quick sights" today. Only a dry fire experience but, moderately impressed with the pistol.

I'd take the trigger of this pistol over a Glock or XD any day. A short, spongy take up and then it breaks very clean at probably 4.5lbs. As stated above, the reset is a bit longer than a Glock, but it's still not bad.

Grip is far narrower to me than my G17/34's. Very comfortable. Not bad for 18rd mags.

The things I didn't like were the sights, slide stop is too small and requires a good bit of pressure(empty mags but still seemed a bit much), I perform a slingshot release anyway.

I'll get some more time with it and maybe get a live fire session with one.

[Edmond]

That bottom photo really shows the benefit of the pistol.


sure..
here u have some pics
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9445/dsc00799dl.jpg (http://img229.imageshack.us/i/dsc00799dl.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Not really, barrel axis is not in line but nobody can deny the Caracal has a lower axis.
It benefits only a trained user, though.

[Edmond]

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Caracal/IMG_6166-1024.jpg