View Full Version : Diamond Speed Sights
I read about these in an IDPA book. Has anyone run these ? (speedsights.com)
That is one large front sight. Interesting concept. Large front sight for fast acquisition and is also pointed at tip for precise aiming. Might like to try one out if the front was smaller and a different color with a blacked out rear.
Taken off of speedsights.com:
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac279/jaxman7/flash-image-wide.png
I've got sets on my issued G19 and "authorized personal" G23 right now. I've only had them for about 6-weeks, four of which were spent OCONUS or on leave, so my range experience is limited so far.
Initial observations:
- The sights work on the theory that the human eye can more easily align the points of three triangles than trying to align the three flat tops of standard sights. The recommended sight picture is to align the side "points" of the triangles, and place the TIP of the front sight triangle on your desired POI. I find that my horizontal dispersion while shooting is MUCH tighter than with standard sights, while vertical is about the same. When running the pistols VERY fast, my groups are almost almost perfect lines running up the center of the target (which should be about perfect for maximizing the possibility of a CNS hit, IMHO).
- In general, I find my accuracy with these sights to be overall slightly better than traditional partridge sights, even at extended ranges (including ringing the pepper popper out to 100 yards with them). The real value of these sights is in how INCREDIBLY fast they are for "flash sight picture" use. One of the guys on my team, after shooting my G19 equipped with these, commented that it was like shooting a Glock with an Aimpoint mounted - the front sight is that easy to pick up, and the "points" are that fast to align.
- The front sight size is fixed height, in either blaze orange or fluorescent green, with or without tritium inserts. I find the orange to be much better in field use, as the green can sometimes "blend" into background foliage or green-ish clothing; but the green is easier to pick up in really low light - I think the front tritium is putting out enough light to make the green fluoresce...
- The rear sights are white, with or without tritium. They're available in +0 or +1 height - and I was told the +0 would work on any 9mm or .40 Glock. My experience is that the +0 sights on my G23 give groups about 6" low at 25 yards, using the "tip of the diamond" sight picture, using our issued Federal 155 gr JHP. The +1 sights cut that in about half, and, if I use the tritium dot as my aiming point instead of the tip of the front sight, I'm pretty well dead on at 25 yards. The +0 rear on my G19 is dead nuts on POA/POI with our 147 gr JHP, and about 3" low with M882 FMJ at 25 yards, again using the "tip of the diamond." All in all, I think the +1 rear should be the standard rear height, or they need to develop a +2 rear...
- The rear sights are much looser in the dovetail than I care for, the set on my G19 is so loose that, without the set screw cranked down, they will shake loose from the slide. Having said that, with the set screw tightened, they haven't budged, and that pistol has had plenty of time getting banged around getting in and out of helicopters, armored and unarmored vehicles, and the like. The set on my G23 was snug enough that I had to use my MGW sight pusher to move them around in the dovetail, but they moved with a lot less force than other sights. Again, once zero'd and set-screwed, they haven't budged.
The most hopeful thing about these sights is the VERY interested and responsive folks at Speed Sights. Basically, every time I've made a comment or observation to them by e-mail, I've gotten a response or a "helpful hint" within minutes. They really do want to make the best sights available - to the point of basically saying they'd make up whatever rear sight I wanted (I think the white paint is a little too bright, and I prefer contrasting color rear tritiums).
I have several more MONTHS on my T&E period, and I can tell you, more likely than not, the only reason I'll send these back is that they've already sent me a new set with contrasting rear tritiums...
Regards,
Kevin
Kevin,
Very interesting observations and thanks!
Business_Casual
08-11-10, 22:06
- The sights work on the theory that the human eye can more easily align the points of three triangles than trying to align the three flat tops of standard sights.
I'm not an eye doctor, so I don't know. But if that were true, wouldn't bullseye shooters have adopted those sights five decades ago? If anyone knows about aligning sights, it's bullseye shooters.
B_C
I'm not an eye doctor, so I don't know. But if that were true, wouldn't bullseye shooters have adopted those sights five decades ago? If anyone knows about aligning sights, it's bullseye shooters.
B_CI don't think it's the precision aspect - but the speed aspect. I'm not an eye doctor either, and I haven't even stayed in a Holiday Inn Express lately, but, for me, and all the other people I've had try them so far, the sights SEEM to help with faster precise alignment.
Also, as an update to my previous post, I admit that the problem with loose rear sights isn't the sights, it's my G19 slide. I took the +0 sights off them to mount on my new Gen4 G19, and when I installed the +1 rear sights, they were loose on that gun (but had been snug on my G23...) Obviously, my older, HEAVILY used G19's rear sight dovetail is a little loose...
Regards,
Kevin
It's definitely an interesting concept, on paper anyway. I wouldn't mind giving them a try as I'm looking to put night sights on my new pistols. Unfortunately they don't make them for the M&P pistols yet.
Has anyone else tried these. Thanks Kevin for the input. - Brad
Im pretty interested honestly. I'd be willing to give the a go.
The logic behind the point to point alignment and the POI at the tip of the diamond sounds like it holds water.
Sold out currently. :(
The Good:
Customer Service continues to be exceptional on these. The designers are completely open to changing the specifications based on input from field users.
The sights are INCREDIBLY fast to use at close range - ringing 8" steel plates at 7 yards is like using a red-dot sight...
The Bad:
At least for me, the current generation of these sights are WAY off POA/POI for any of my carry ammunition in both my Gen4 G19 and my "issued" 3rd Gen G19. I'm talking 6-8" low at 25 yards off, using the "center hold" technique. Even at 7 yards, using the tip of the diamond prints 2-3" low - which, IMHO, is just not acceptable. But - as noted above, the next run of sights is being machined to (hopefully) correct this problem.
The Ugly:
I started off the 5-day Mid-South Institute basic Pistol-Rifle course with these installed on both of my G19s. By lunchtime on day 1, the inability to see small targets at anything past contact distance drove me to abandon them in favor of traditional "partridge" sights. Even at 5 yards, the front diamond is so big it completely covers a 2" small dot target, and it nearly covers an entire 4" dot target.
Conclusions:
I'm not ready to write these off yet; but, FOR ME, they're not the best option for precise shooting. My next set of experiments will be shooting two identical G19s side-by-side, one with Ameriglos and one with the Speed Sights, and see if there's an appreciable difference in "combat accuracy" (say inside a 5" circle) at 5-7 yards while running the pistols fast.
More to follow...
Regards,
Kevin
Thanks for the update kevin. I'm wondering if your the only one giving these a serious run or if there so new others just hav'nt heard of them yet. It seems from reading your post the impact being at the tip of front sight just is'nt happening ? Keep us informed how your comparison works out. Thanks Brad
I will agree that concentrating on this photo does give you a feel for the benefit of this type of sighting system. I may give them a shot if they ever make an M&P version.
http://speedsights.com/VirtualTarget37G3.jpg
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