View Full Version : ar15 charging handle is not itelligently designed.....
......because there is not enough "handle" to pull on.
Simple question, who makes a quality latch that is large and easy to grab onto?
Something that also won't break that little-ass roll pin.:no:
BCM Gunfighter Charging Handle.
whiterabbit05
08-14-10, 15:51
Badge tactical latch has worked for others also.
Is there a possibility that we can phrase this a little more intelligently? For someone that has over 500 posts and has been here a while I would think that something along the lines of "Looking for a better charging handle" or something similar would be more appropriate.
+1 on the Bravo Company Gunfighter charging handle
tough and redesigned so there is less to no strain on the roll pin.
Pat Rodgers has a writeup in swat magazine about it you can find it here
http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/bravo_jan10%20(2).pdf
Belmont31R
08-14-10, 16:07
3rd on the BCM Gunfighter.
Mod 4 (med) is a good size for most AR's. The 3 (Large) is great if you really want a larger handle or running a scope where the rear bell can get in the way. I run 4's on almost everything except one gun which has a 3.
ForTehNguyen
08-14-10, 16:07
BCM gunfighter
BCM Gunfighter Charging Handle.
I know this may sound idiotic. But that was one of the best improvements that I made to my rifles. I use the Mod4, or medium. Works wonders.
http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz179/556mp/IMG_1027.jpg
http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz179/556mp/IMG_1028.jpg
The BCM charging handle should be satisfactory, especially with the size options available.
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-10, 16:51
Is there a possibility that we can phrase this a little more inteliigently? For someone that has over 500 posts and has been here a while I would think that something along the lines of "Looking for a better charging handle" or something similar would be more appropriate.
Here, here. . . There for a minute I thought I logged onto the wrong site.
OP, as others have stated if you require more realestate try out a BCM Gunfighter.
I use the round PRI Military latch on my rifles and have been quite satisfied with them.
I started with these a couple of years ago before the BCM offering was available.
Next time I'm in the market I'd like to give the BCM a try.
-RD62
i was all about big latches for a while.. but then the predictable happened, and they just got caught on everything and stabbed the shit out of me at every opportunity.
i've been sporting the LMT handle/latches for the last 6 months or so... perfect in-between size. i know the BCM chargers are pretty popular right now, but i have no 'sperience with em.
I'm really looking into the badger latch due to its surface area. Unless the BCM's are no different.
Is there a possibility that we can phrase this a little more inteliigently? For someone that has over 500 posts and has been here a while I would think that something along the lines of "Looking for a better charging handle" or something similar would be more appropriate.
Dude it reeeaaaalllly doesn't matter......but ok I'll change it.
GermanSynergy
08-14-10, 17:19
BCM GF & PRI Gasbusters are in all of my carbines.....
arizonaranchman
08-14-10, 17:20
BCM #5 latch will be the next parts ordered for both of my carbines. Not so concerned about a big latch to get hold of as I am the improved/stronger design to make it more reliable. As said above getting hung up on things and stabbing me in the chest/abdomen with a single-point sling is something I want to avoid.
RogerinTPA
08-14-10, 17:24
Another vote for the BCM Mod 4 Charging Handle. After buying one and running it for a while, I quickly replaced the CHs on my other ARs.
Blankwaffe
08-14-10, 17:27
i was all about big latches for a while.. but then the predictable happened, and they just got caught on everything and stabbed the shit out of me at every opportunity.
i've been sporting the LMT handle/latches for the last 6 months or so... perfect in-between size. i know the BCM chargers are pretty popular right now, but i have no 'sperience with em.
Took the words right out of my mouth BKB.Same experience.
I used the PRI military latch for awhile,Grant sent me one with a LMT upper order,and I liked it well enough.When the LMT tactical CH came out I went that direction and have no complaints.That said the BCM Mod 5 looks like its good to go for my needs.
I use the pinch method previously discussed here on the forum and Im a ham fisted monkey,so I dont need a huge latch digging into me and hanging up on my gear.
they just got caught on everything and stabbed the shit out of me at every opportunity
As said above getting hung up on things and stabbing me in the chest/abdomen with a single-point sling is something I want to avoid
I dont need a huge latch digging into me and hanging up on my gear
Isn't this typical with any weapon that has a left side charging handle for a right handed shooter?
I use Badger Latches in mine. Have not broke one yet.
the other thing the LMT latches have over the big latches is that it gives you plenty of purchase, but without torquing the charger sideways. the way the latch is angled and positioned, you just pinch and jerk straight back.. the big latches hang off the side, and makes it twice as hard to jerk the charger back, plus puts that much more wear on the arm and pin.
Soulrack223
08-14-10, 17:54
I am a big fan of the new LMT CHs/Latches. They're the perfect in between size. I got rid of my badger because it would always, painfully poke me in the back. The BCM CH with the shorter latch looks nice too.
For those that want an improvement without an extension, the BCM Gunfighter Mod 5 (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-GUNFIGHTER-Charging-Handle-GFH-Mod-5-p/bcm%20gfh%20mod%205%20556.htm)
and makes it twice as hard to jerk the charger back
That's also what I'm trying to avoid.
I feel like you have to constantly apply some sort of lubrication (in my case it's lithium grease) in the charging handle receiver slot in order to reduce friction.
Magic_Salad0892
08-14-10, 20:41
PRI M84 Gasbuster + Flat Latch is what I use in mine.
Isn't this typical with any weapon that has a left side charging handle for a right handed shooter?Not with the folding charging handle of the Fal
Thomas M-4
08-14-10, 21:22
the other thing the LMT latches have over the big latches is that it gives you plenty of purchase, but without torquing the charger sideways. the way the latch is angled and positioned, you just pinch and jerk straight back.. the big latches hang off the side, and makes it twice as hard to jerk the charger back, plus puts that much more wear on the arm and pin.
BKB brings a good point. I use BCM MOD 4 I did get to try the badger big latch compared to mine side by side recently. The badger works for sure. But I did notice that the big latch did have more yaw side to side movement than the BCM Gunfighter the latch on the Gunfighter did seem to lock up better than the badger. IMHO the badger big latch was designed with one purpose and that was to put the biggest latch on the stock CH. The BCM Gunfighter CH was designed to correct the deficiencies in the original design.
Thomas M-4
08-14-10, 21:31
......because there is not enough "handle" to pull on.
Simple question, who makes a quality latch that is large and easy to grab onto?
Something that also won't break that little-ass roll pin.:no:
My orginal LMT CH has a slight curve in the latch cut out and I was NOT using a big latch or snatching the CH.
If you want a more durable latch as far as I know the BCM is going to be it.
Not with the folding charging handle of the Fal
ehhh.......If my job required me to shoot people for a living, I think I'd want a solid handle for quicker weapon manipulation. But what do I know........
back to ar15 chaging handles.
I've noticed something with my CMMG charging handle.......it's bent just ever so slightly to the right......just barely. I know the bend is there, but if I look at the charging handle long enough, it goes away. :laugh:
What is the life expectancy of ar15 charging handles/latch?
i've never seen any kind of life expectancy for charging handles. i have seen weapons that are 20+ years old, have been through multiple barrels, bolts, springs, etc, that still have their original chargers, however. it's not really a wear part.
GermanSynergy
08-14-10, 22:44
If your CH is bent you should replace it. Life expectancy depends on the amount/type of use and the CH in question.
ehhh.......If my job required me to shoot people for a living, I think I'd want a solid handle for quicker weapon manipulation. But what do I know........
back to ar15 chaging handles.
I've noticed something with my CMMG charging handle.......it's bent just ever so slightly to the right......just barely. I know the bend is there, but if I look at the charging handle long enough, it goes away. :laugh:
What is the life expectancy of ar15 charging handles/latch?
ehhh.......If my job required me to shoot people for a living, I think I'd want a solid handle for quicker weapon manipulation...I find the Fal folding charging handle is faster than the AR charging handle.
Neither style prevents me from shooting the rifles though :smile:
My wifes gun has an LMT latch. Everything else is BCM or PRI latch.
I use the Bushmaster tactical on mine. Hasn't failed me yet!
On the subject of charging handles for ar15 rifles, why don't companies make FAL/XCR/REPR charging handles for ar15 uppers?
I can see how it would also be possible to create an ACR/masada charging handle for the ar15 by shortening the existing ar15 CH design and have it stick out the left side of the receiver. That design would probably have carbon blowing out the receiver, but I'm sure something can be figured out.
http://www.americanspiritarms.com/products/ASA_AR_15_M4_Side_Charger_Upper_Receiver-38-4.html
yeah.......$425 for a stripped upper.:suicide: It also has that dumb folding handle which I don't agree with. I'd rather buy a $45 BCM and call it done.
....Or a $20 badger latch.....
If I learned one thing in the firearms world, it's that you never find the perfect firearm because you'll always find something else to complain about.
I wonder if car enthusiasts argue whether the gear shift should be on the center console or the steering column.:lol:
Jake Bauer
08-15-10, 02:31
I have the Badger Tactical latch and it works great. I didnt see the need to spend the extra money on a whole new charging handle with an extended latch like the BCM (although I'm sure it works great)
I have broken two standard charging handles with extended latches installed on them in the past.
Just get the BCM GunFighter Mod4 CH and be done with it. It is the most refined, heaviest duty charging handle available on the market.
I also like the PRI GasBuster w/their "CombatLatch", but not at nearly twice the price of the BCM.
yeah.......$425 for a stripped upper.
hmm... you know, all the times i've come across that link, and passed it on myself, i've somehow never actually looked at the price tag. $425 does seem a little shocking..
variablebinary
08-15-10, 03:43
I'm just the opposite. I prefer the stock charging handle.
I haven't had one bend or break yet.
For those that prefer more options, it's a good time to be alive.
yeah.......$425 for a stripped upper.:suicide: It also has that dumb folding handle which I don't agree with. I'd rather buy a $45 BCM and call it done...
...I wonder if car enthusiasts argue whether the gear shift should be on the center console or the steering column.:lol:If you've ever used a left side charging handle, even the folder, you'd see it's easier to manipulate than the charger on the AR. Except on the HK. The HK Slap may be ninja cool :ph34r: but the charge handle is awkward to use. No denying the price of admission on the Spirit Arms upper is quite steep and I'm not sure it's worth it just to get the left side charging handle.
There is no argument among car enthusiasts about shifter location- Center console is best. The argument is about type- whether it's better to use a slushbox or step up to the man tranny! :D
Jay Cunningham
08-15-10, 08:50
Dude it reeeaaaalllly doesn't matter......but ok I'll change it.
I would strongly suggest a little more respect for our moderators and a lot less smart-ass attitude.
ar15 charging handle is not itelligently designed.....
because the method of using it has changed in the last 40 or so years. It was intelligently designed for the "primary hand grab with two fingers" charging technique. It wasn't designed to be charged via the charging handle with the support hand when the gun was already shouldered, or to assist in malfunction clearance when shouldered.
Inefficient for modern technique? Definitely! Unintelligently designed? Not quite. The method just changed, and the OEM latch never kept up.
because the method of using it has changed in the last 40 or so years. It was intelligently designed for the "primary hand grab with two fingers" charging technique. It wasn't designed to be charged via the charging handle with the support hand when the gun was already shouldered, or to assist in malfunction clearance when shouldered.
Inefficient for modern technique? Definitely! Unintelligently designed? Not quite. The method just changed, and the OEM latch never kept up.
True, but considering how well laid out the other controls are, I don't believe the designer(s) of the rifle totally missed the idea of support hand CH manipulation.
After all, the original charging handle looked something like this.
http://www.gun-world.net/usa/m16/ar10/805ar10d.jpg
http://www.gun-world.net/usa/m16/ar10/ar10early.jpg
Failure2Stop
08-15-10, 13:22
True, but considering how well laid out the other controls are, I don't believe the designer(s) of the rifle totally missed the idea of support hand CH manipulation.
You mean the way they seem to have forgotten to apply the same logic to the selector, bolt catch/release, and mag release?
Anyway- we have evolved as gunfighters since the Garand was in service, in which timeframe the AR was designed. Not a condemnation, simply an admission of roots. Due to evolution of technique, as well as incorrect application of some techniques, flaws in design as related to application become more apparent.
That being said- the bigger the latch, the more likely the latch will catch on something and take the bolt out of battery, and during manipulation the more lateral pressure will be applied to the length of the CH, resulting in broken/bent CHs, which will take your gun out of the fight. Manipulation of the CH needs to be in a straight path to the rear to avoid accelerated wear and breakage, and the LMT and BCM mod 5 seem to most fit this requirement.
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