View Full Version : Smith & Wesson M&P15TS - First Look - Updated 5/7/11
Fried Chicken Blowout
08-14-10, 21:44
Hey there guys and gals. This is my first post on M4Carbine.net. I've been a registered user for a while, but have up till now been an AK shooter. My only prior ownership of an AR was a Rock River 9mm AR-15 that was a complete piece of crap. So anyways, that was sold and I stuck with AKs until the last group I was teaching... I shots a few of the other guys 5.56 ARs and liked them so I was on a quest for what the best bang for the buck was in the AR platform. After quite some time looking I decided on the new M&P15TS from Smith & Wesson.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find one ANYWHERE. I get LEO pricing on the S&W products so I got one back ordered from an LE dealer and was told that I would get one from the first production run that occurred during the last week of July. Unfortunately.... again, the dealer didn't get their whole order so I was left empty handed for the time being. So I started looking again and decided to settle for a M&P15 MOE for the time being and attempted to order from Grant at G&R Tactical. He was totally sold out of the M&P15 MOE at the time but after emailing him, I was surprised to find out that he had two of the M&P15TS models in stock and ready to ship. I jumped at the opportunity and harassed Grant for most of two days to take my credit card info and ship me one of them.
I'm sure I drove Grant nuts with all my emails and phone calls... Fortunately he hadn't posted them on his website yet and I was able to get one. Grant shipped on the next business day after we were able to connect by phone and the rifle arrived at my FFL three days after that. I immediately went to work switching out parts that I had ordered several weeks earlier to make the rifle more left hand friendly and mounted my optic. I got the rifle on Thursday night and had it all setup on Friday. I haven't had time to properly sight it in before today, so I jumped right in a shot it today in an IDPA Multi-Gun Match that I had planned to just shoot pistol in. The rifle did great. It took a little bit before the match to get it sighted in, but there were no malfunctions in the first 100 rounds. Everything went smooth.... We'll see how I did after the match results get posted. This was my first day shooting this gun, with only a little bit of AR experience prior.
So on the my intention of this post... Offer up a little bit of info about this new model from Smith & Wesson. For the money I think this is about as sweet as it gets. The rifle cost me $1195 shipped and transferred to me from Grant with my FFL as the middle man. But then with the $100 S&W rebate... I'm down to a total of $1095 for the rifle. The Rifle arrived in the standard cheapo plastic case, included a PMAG that has the M&P logo on it, MagPul sights, MagPul MOE grip and stock that are of pretty good quality and a Troy Extreme Battle Rail with two of the 2" rail segments and a full length rail on the top.
According to S&W's site this is has a 14.5" barrel with a permeant flash hider attached for a total 16.1" in barrel length. This is what initially attracted me to the weapon, as I wanted a short rifle without going into SBR land and dealing with the ATF. This was the ticket for the price. Also in the photo on the S&W site, you can clearly see that it's a mid-length gas system and it's stated as a 1/7 Twist as a bonus. All great stuff and even more bang for the buck. The sticker from S&W (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766300_-1_757785_757784_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y) is $1770, so the price I paid was clearly much better. Which is great because I like to get a deal on stuff and because it's not quite what was posted on the S&W website. The barrel length is actually 16.25" in length from bolt face to the tip of the flash hider, which is no big deal... But it looks to be a Carbine Length gas system, unlike the photo on the site. I will most likely never be able to tell the difference, but it would have been nice to have a mid length. It is marked as stated, as a 1/7 twist barrel which is nice.
The fit and finish is pretty good. The upper to lower fit is MUCH tighter than my dad's two M&P15 rifles that he got a couple of years ago. The MagPul stuff is very nice and it shoots very well. I shot about a 0.5" group with the attached AimPoint during a few sight-in rounds prior to the match at 50 yards. I did however swap out the FCG for a Wilson Combat Tactical Trigger Unit, which is very nice, tight and light. The install on that item took about 5 mins, including the ambi safety and function testing. Very nice unit with a crisp break and reset.
The gun is very light, thanks to the Troy rail. The only issue I have with the rail is that it does not mount up perfectly straight. This may be normal for rails of this length, but I need to have the rear sight cranked almost all the way over to the left to make up for the rail being slightly off center at it's end as compared to the barrel. There is enough adjustment in the rear sight to make this happen and it can be seen if you closely inspect the barrel for being centered in the rail at the end of the rail.
All in all, this is quite the bang for the buck. It's light, relatively cheap, shoots well and looks wicked! I know I have not tested it out much, but due to my trust in other S&W products (several M&P9 pistols), I'm expecting it to be quite reliable. If not, I'll be taking advantage of the life time warrantee from Smith & Wesson. And for those that might want to know, the gas key is properly staked and there are M4 cuts in the barrel extension. If there are any questions, please post up and I'll try to answer them...
Okay, enough of me typing. Here's some photos....
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN4447/web.jpg?ver=12818362060001
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN4448/web.jpg?ver=12818362080001
CHECK OUT THAT FRONT MOUNT FOR THE MAGPUL MS2 SLING... THANKS TO LMarshell73 (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=50184) HERE ON THE M4Carbine.net FOURM. Sweet setup and THANKS to Marshell!!!!!!
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN4451/web.jpg?ver=12818362090001
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN4452/web.jpg?ver=12818362100001
Continuing on the next post...
Fried Chicken Blowout
08-14-10, 21:47
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN4454/web.jpg?ver=12818382980001
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN4455/web.jpg?ver=12818383530001
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN4456/web.jpg?ver=12818362150001
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN4458/web.jpg?ver=12818362160001
Fried Chicken Blowout
08-14-10, 21:49
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN4460/web.jpg?ver=12818362180001
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN4461/web.jpg?ver=12818362190001
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN4462/web.jpg?ver=12818362210001
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN4464/web.jpg?ver=12818362220001
SavagePump
08-15-10, 09:30
I don't know if you already knew this, but S&W has a promotion for a $100 rebate or 5 magazines. You should see if you qualify or not (the gun should, but I don't know your exact date of purchase).
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_757993_-1_757992_757992_image
Fried Chicken Blowout
08-15-10, 09:50
I did know that and I forgot to mention it in the post. That was part of the decision. I mailed it in the day I got the rifle in hand. So that really puts my total at $1095 when the rebate comes back!!!
I chose the $100 rebate because I got a truck load of PMAGs for $11 each from Brownell's... Not sure what math S&W is using to only give five PMAGs in place of $100... If you're paying $20 each for your PMAGs, you're likely over paying.
Fried Chicken Blowout
08-15-10, 10:14
While I'm at it, does anyone know how I can get ahold of a SEI Suppressor? It appears as though my permeant flash hider is able to accept their QD suppressor but they restrict sales to the government. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a Class 3 dealer selling them to the public. I already have an NRA Trust, so this should be an easy one... If I can find one available. Is there any other brand suppressor that will attach to this flash hider?
Thanks!
Kentucky Cop
08-15-10, 12:39
I like it! I have been waiting for this since, oh, when they said it would be released in January 8 months ago. Better late than never. Keep us updated and hopefully S&W will get the rail fixed. I know they had some problems with a loose rail for the 15T early on...
KC
Fried Chicken Blowout
08-15-10, 14:55
I removed the rail and reseated it. That allowed me to take about half the adjustment out of the rear sight. I think there is a trade off in weight. They made it as light as they could, but it's just not as stout as the heaver models. I don't think there is a fix. I think I would end up sending it back to have it returned without any real change as this is more of a Troy design issue that was a compromise for the weight savings. I compared it to the much heaver and more stout Troy rail on the M&P15T model and there is no comparison in how much stronger the regular T's rail appears over this one
Since I have another one on order, it will be interesting to see if there is any design change on the next production run. I'm the first in line at the dealer to get the next shipment they receive. I would be surprised and pleased if the next run ended up with the mid-length gas system, but they may have just abandoned that idea to keep all the tooling the same.
That is a fantastic deal you got. I am still interested on the similar Vtac version that comes with a 16" 1/8 twist, fluted Middy. Those were also supposed to be released this month according to the LE S&W rep I spoke with at the NPRC in June.
Fried Chicken Blowout
08-15-10, 18:52
If you have the exact model number, you can call S&W and they will give you the production and ship dates. Once it ships they can also tell you which distributer got them and how many they got. The problem is tracking down a dealer that has them, but if you have a friendly dealer at least you can tell them what distributer has them and they can check. Since last year's VTAC is still around it might be hard to distinguish between old stock and the new model... The new VTAC is pretty sweet, I find it interesting that it doesn't have any MagPul stuff on it except the mag... Is that due to Kyle Lamb being a competitor of MagPul Dynamics in the training arena?
FYI, you can get last year's VTAC for $1400 delivered on the LE Discount if the price would help float your boat on the old model. I can give you a link if you're interested.
Kentucky Cop
08-22-10, 20:16
Sooooo, have we shot the thing yet. Waiting on thoughts and all that. Ya jumped on here telling us all about it and gone! Nick, is the VTAC version of this beast out?
Kentucky Cop
Fried Chicken Blowout
08-22-10, 21:25
I have not seen the new VTAC version anywhere yet. Several places still have the older version of the VTAC available.
I shot it in a IDPA Multi-Gun Match last weekend. I got about 20 rounds prior to the match to try to sight in the optic in heavy wind. I didn't bother with the irons since I was just sighting in for the match. The rifle portion of the match was only about 60 rounds. No failures out of the box, thank goodness. I got second place in optic. There was only a total of 7 optic guns. I'm doing a bunch of loading of ammo right now on my off days, after I get through a few thousand more rounds of reloading I'll start hitting the range more. I'm also schedule to attend a rifle class with it next month.
So far I'm impress. Since I'm coming from shooting an AK, this has very little recoil, seems very accurate and light. So far I like.
I like this rifle and am looking to get one in the next year. I'm curious... did you follow up with S&W about the gas system? Did they change to mid-length after the first run of guns? The pics you posted it does indeed appear to be a carbine gas system.
Fried Chicken Blowout
09-02-10, 18:46
I think they had plans to make it a mid-length in the development stages and took photos of the prototype. But then when it came to making the product they decided to stick with the parts they had on hand to keep the cost down. The cost on these is VERY fair, so I'm not complaining. What you see in the photo is from the first production run of these guns.
The one that I had on backorder for quite a while with Express Police Supply just got to my FFL today. It's from the second production run they did of these. I'll pick it up tomorrow morning. I'll be interested to see if there is any difference between the two rifles. If the second one pops up with a mid-length gas system, I will call and try to get them to change the first one. You can also see that the barrel and/or the Troy rail is a different length in the S&W website photos than what actually arrived on the gun. Other than that, they appear to be what the website lists.
I'm sure that the rifle will be a big seller.
I assembled mine a few months before S&W came out with theirs. I preferred the 16" Daniel Defense lightweight profile barrel. 16" to avoid having to permanently attach the muzzle device.
I find mounting the light at 12 o'clock (as recommended by Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn) more versatile than any other position. I can access it from the left or right and don't have to worry about blinding myself when maneuvering around right or left hand corners.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DD.jpg
Have fun with your rifle.
The M&P is a pretty good gun. I bought my M&P 15X last year for $850 with my LE discount. I have 3000+ rounds through it without a single problem.
Great write-up and great news as I think I am about to pull the trigger on a 15 OR for $799/$699 only thing I am hesitant or unsure about is the 1/9 twist but it will be my first and I think I will be all right with it as a learner.
I'm sure that the rifle will be a big seller.
I assembled mine a few months before S&W came out with theirs. I preferred the 16" Daniel Defense lightweight profile barrel. 16" to avoid having to permanently attach the muzzle device.
I find mounting the light at 12 o'clock (as recommended by Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn) more versatile than any other position. I can access it from the left or right and don't have to worry about blinding myself when maneuvering around right or left hand corners.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DD.jpg
Have fun with your rifle.
Really interested in the newer S&W Vtac (mid-length).
I really like the thought process of putting the Daniels Pencil barrel on that rifle. I put my TLR -1 at 12:00 o'clock and it's perfect to bump the rocker switch with my thumb. Great set up Sam.
And to jasonh, seems like you skipped the learning curve that most of us had to take and got a smoking deal in the process. Good on YOU!
masternave
09-03-10, 11:58
Is that the TLR 3 on that stick? I have one on my M&P, thinking about putting one on my rifle in that position. How are you liking it?
Really interested in the newer S&W Vtac (mid-length).
I really like the thought process of putting the Daniels Pencil barrel on that rifle. I put my TLR -1 at 12:00 o'clock and it's perfect to bump the rocker switch with my thumb. Great set up Sam.
And to jasonh, seems like you skipped the learning curve that most of us had to take and got a smoking deal in the process. Good on YOU!
"While I'm at it, does anyone know how I can get ahold of a SEI Suppressor? It appears as though my permeant flash hider is able to accept their QD suppressor but they restrict sales to the government. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a Class 3 dealer selling them to the public. I already have an NRA Trust, so this should be an easy one... If I can find one available. Is there any other brand suppressor that will attach to this flash hider?"
Call SEI and they can probably give you a contact number for Fisher who makes the same suppressor.
Is that the TLR 3 on that stick? I have one on my M&P, thinking about putting one on my rifle in that position. How are you liking it?
PM sent
Fried Chicken Blowout
09-03-10, 20:14
So I picked up the second M&P15TS from the FFL today. They are from different production runs, but exactly the same. Both carbine gas systems and both of the rails are slightly off center at the end, which causes the rear sight to have to be adjusted to get a zero. I wonder if this is a design flaw with the S&W branded Troy tubes or what. No one else seems to be noticing this on the Troy branded tubes.
Any one have any info on this issue? When you tighten up the locking screws on the bottom of the tube there is quite a lot of compression in the relief cut that takes place to lock the tube in place. With all the compression it takes to tighten up the tube on the barrel nut, there is bound to be some shifting. If find this design a little odd. I'm sure it's not an issue with shorter rails, but when it's magnum size at 13" a little bit of shift is noticeable.
Ran 100 rounds through the second one without a single issue. Shoots great.
I've got a rifle class on September 25th, I'll up date everyone on how it goes the day after. I expect to fire 750 rounds that day, per the class description. It'll be my first time really running the AR platform after getting rid of my AKs.
Fried Chicken Blowout
09-03-10, 20:16
"While I'm at it, does anyone know how I can get ahold of a SEI Suppressor? It appears as though my permeant flash hider is able to accept their QD suppressor but they restrict sales to the government. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a Class 3 dealer selling them to the public. I already have an NRA Trust, so this should be an easy one... If I can find one available. Is there any other brand suppressor that will attach to this flash hider?"
Call SEI and they can probably give you a contact number for Fisher who makes the same suppressor.
Who is "Fisher"? Is it a company?
It's a man whose name is Fisher and he makes suppressors.
He's in Arizona, don't know exactly where, probably Mesa or Tempe.
Google 'Fisher suppressors'.
Fried Chicken Blowout
09-03-10, 23:28
It's a man whose name is Fisher and he makes suppressors.
He's in Arizona, don't know exactly where, probably Mesa or Tempe.
Google 'Fisher suppressors'.
Thanks. Found him. Email sent.
Is that the TLR 3 on that stick? I have one on my M&P, thinking about putting one on my rifle in that position. How are you liking it?
Yes, it is. I really like it. It's lightweight, allows access to the switch from either side and works well.
The_War_Wagon
09-04-10, 13:52
VEDDY nice! I've got an older M&P15T - glad to see they've gone to a 1 :7 twist. My 1 :9 does fine with 55gr. fodder, but it'd be nice to have the option to go with heavier bullets.
Fried Chicken Blowout
09-25-10, 20:54
Well I'm back for an update. I've now had the rifle out for a few runs recently. I properly cleaned and lubed it once and now have fired a total of 1050 rounds since it's cleaning without a single issue at all.
I did another quick sighting in at the indoor range after cleaning it and ran about 50 rounds through it at that time.
Then it was off for some drills at the outdoor range a few days later for a total of 200 rounds there.
Now today I ran a Defensive Rifle class with it totaling 800 round today. It was run pretty hard and at several times I had to put on some gloves to handle the Troy rail without burning my hand.
I'm very happy with the whole package and believe that it'll serve me for quite some time without issue.
Jason
The Guinea
10-17-10, 18:15
Hi all, new member here. Great AR-15 site.
I just picked up a new M&P 15TS about 3 weeks ago. I have about 1000 rounds of various brands and weights thru it and I absolutely love it. This is my first AR (and I'm sure it's not the last).
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u286/guinea72/DSC03353.jpg
Thanks.
The Guinea
I want one. If only I could find a dealer in Texas that has them in stock or could actually get them.
I'd love to pick one up once I get back from Afghanistan.
Fried Chicken Blowout
04-09-11, 07:11
SInce you're military, you should order from OMB Express. They're in Kansas and you'll get it fast with a deep discount.
SInce you're military, you should order from OMB Express. They're in Kansas and you'll get it fast with a deep discount.
Thanks for the info. Not trying to derail this thread so I'll attempt to keep it inline.
Have you corrected the handguard tilt that you identified?
S&W say anything about it, or has anyone else who owns a 15TS experienced this as well?
Hi all, new member here. Great AR-15 site.
I just picked up a new M&P 15TS about 3 weeks ago. I have about 1000 rounds of various brands and weights thru it and I absolutely love it. This is my first AR (and I'm sure it's not the last).
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u286/guinea72/DSC03353.jpg
Thanks.
The Guinea
I like it. got a chance to handle one the other day. so much lighter than my mp15x. i should have waited. guess theres no harm in buying two
Fried Chicken Blowout
04-26-11, 19:55
I still dig mine. I need to get some photos of my two M&P15TS rifles now that they have morphed some since I bought them... They just keep getting better and better. Nice rifles and good price!
Fried Chicken Blowout
05-07-11, 13:49
So I'm coming up on a year with my two M&P15TS rifles. I've got a few requests for updates on how they are doing. I can tell you that I'm still very pleased, maybe even more so than I was right after getting them. They are a good fit for the kind of shooting I do and I still think I made the right choice. The issue with the hand guard being slightly off center at the far end continues, but has not proven to be a real issue. It can be mitigated some by pressing the hand guard over to the other side when it's tightened up on the barrel nut. It seems to stay in the new position pretty well.
So for I've only had ammo related failures with my reloads. A stuck case and another that got the rim torn off when it was fed into the chamber. I assume these were related to being reloaded several times. The gun with the Aimpoint has about 5k rounds through it and the other has about 2k through it. The accuracy has been very good with the 1:7 barrel with my 55gr (surplus collet pulled bullets with collet marks on them and pulled powder in mixed brass) will shoot 2 MOA from either gun. My 62gr (surplus air pulled so there's no marks on them with surplus pulled powder and mixed brass) shoots about 1.5 MOA as does any factory 55gr ammo.
Here's some more photos to show the changes I've made with the optic, sling mounts, grip, and stocks. What you can't see is the Chip McCormick and Wilson Combat triggers. Along with the photos, I've completed a summery of my experience on YouTube which can be see here... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB_lgToO1ZI)
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN6524/web.jpg?ver=13047934180001
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN6520/web.jpg?ver=13047934110001
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN6517/web.jpg?ver=13047934130001
Fried Chicken Blowout
05-07-11, 13:55
One of the big changes I've made was the addition of the Burris Tac30 1-4x24 optic. This optic is very impressive for the price of $299 delivered to my door. I picked up with stout ADM mount for about $160 which has been flawless. Once installed it only took 6 clicks of elevation to get it zeroed at 100 yards. The mount has held it's zero without issue and returns to zero when removed and replaced.
I did have to change to rear sight to the new Gen 2 MBUS to get the clearance I needed.
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN6522/web.jpg?ver=13047934150001
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN6523/web.jpg?ver=13047934190001
Fried Chicken Blowout
05-07-11, 14:01
The Emod and Imod stock from Vltor have made a significant differance in the speed you can obtain proper eye relief. As much as I hesitated in spending the money on them, I'm very glad I did. Take a look at them, they are good quality, tight and comfortable.
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN6520/web.jpg?ver=13047934110001
Nice looking set-up you have.
Im still disappointed S&W has not released the updated VTAC version shown at last years SHOT show with the 16" 1/8 twist midlength/fluted barrel. That would have been a great seller for them. Judging from their latest "offerings" they are going in a completely different direction with their AR line. Unfortunate.
Fried Chicken Blowout
05-07-11, 14:48
Yeah, I'm not quite sure what they are doing with the line. I felt the TS was really a step in the right direction as well as the VTAC. Even the current VTAC is a very nice gun. I'm kind of shocked that they haven't rolled the new VTAC out as well. Hopefully they will keep going down the line of higher end gun and not abandon them for the entry level DPMS type guns.
Your sight issue concerns me. I would certainly look into returning/replacing the rail.
Fried Chicken Blowout
05-13-11, 19:30
Your sight issue concerns me. I would certainly look into returning/replacing the rail.
I don't think replacing it would solve the issue. They both do it and several other people have contacted me stated their's does that as well. I think it's just a design flaw with the Troy Extreme rail and most people just don't notice it.
I've found that the tube rails require a little tweaking, art rather than science at times. I usually line mine up using a Larue scope mount to bridge the gap between receiver and rail, and then the old Mk. I standard issue eye ball. I've got Troy/Vtacs on 6 carbines and have found the Viking model to be a little stiffer, but a hair heavier, which is OK except on my 2 lightweights. I find I can usually get to where I use 3-6 clicks to get zeroed. As they are BUIS's I'm not overly concerned about possible flex as the primary is on the receiver anyway. Even with some flex I've found it doesn't degregate accuracy much at 100 yards, and an unnoticeable amount at less than that. I've had some very nicely made tube and quad rails that required a lot of windage to get dialed in over the years and don't think the current Troy/Vtac's are any worse than anything else, and many times easier to get centered. A lot of people crank them to the stop and tighten down. That's a common cause of the zero issue. I've often thought that S&W offers a lot of bang for the buck but haven't owned one, just played with a few. I tend to think of them as somewhere in between the Noveske, KAC, COLT, BCM, DD, and the others which I won't or don't own anymore. Keep shooting them, I'll bet they last as long and are as troublefree as several of the higher end (quality, not price) manufacturers.
The new VTAC is pretty sweet, I find it interesting that it doesn't have any MagPul stuff on it except the mag... Is that due to Kyle Lamb being a competitor of MagPul Dynamics in the training
I wondered about this. it seems that its just all troy stuff though...?
Just got mine on Monday!!!
I've shot just about every high priced AR made but this is the first one I've actually owned for myself and I love it!
Great extra's at an unbeatable price plus the guns shoots extremley well. I did have two FTE in my first 200 rnds but it was junk HSM ammo that was not properly trimmed. Enjoy the pics!
I've got a Leupold Deltapoint coming from the factory as a test product to throw on next week!
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/sneekeedanno/DUTY2011-05-15015.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/sneekeedanno/DUTY2011-05-15001.jpg
Mine did not have the rail alignment issue came straigh as an arrow from the factory! It was dang near dead on minus one MOA of left adjustment on the rear sight at 50 yrds! I shot two, four shot, 1 inch groups at 50 yrds with open sights last night(from a bag rest)....really happy with that!
The best thing about this rifle is it's light weight! People pick it up and say "WOW"!
Fried Chicken:
What trigger group do you like best out of the ones you installed?
Fried Chicken Blowout
05-19-11, 04:14
For a typical close range use inside 100 yards, the Wilson Combat TTU is hands down the best trigger I've ever used. It's super crisp and the reset is stupid short. Now that I have one I'm glad I have it.
That being said, I would not pay $260 for a trigger again. The Chip McCormick is very good for $100 less. Not the same overall quality but very nice for the money. It also has a lighter pull and I have on in my precision gun as well as the gun with the 1-4 optic. It works very well.
Quiet-Matt
05-19-11, 05:09
I've found that the tube rails require a little tweaking, art rather than science at times. I usually line mine up using a Larue scope mount to bridge the gap between receiver and rail, and then the old Mk. I standard issue eye ball. A lot of people crank them to the stop and tighten down. That's a common cause of the zero issue.
If you have a little OCD, some free time, and lack the ability to leave anything as-is... I used JBWeld to build up a small shelf on the tab. Then after several test fittings and careful filing, I can use the tab as an indexing point for the rail.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_5kA3JwNkBxc/TR957NBWFrI/AAAAAAAAHJ0/Z3NtZ8JAIhA/s800/DSC01658.JPG
yup, that's me, and I like it.
RAM Engineer
05-20-11, 15:48
I don't know why people tolerate those Troy rails as many issues as I've seen posted about them.
I don't know why people tolerate those Troy rails as many issues as I've seen posted about them.
I can't say I've had any issues. They are lightweight, small diameter, and affordable. Over the years I've used Troys MRF's, SWS, Yankee Hill, 4 different models of DD's, Knights, and PRI. I buy what I want for my carbines and these are my favorites. This is coming from a guy that installs, Battle Comps, Giesselle's, ambi safeties and mag releases, etc. on every carbine I build. When I'm done the extra $150.00 or so to go with DD lite rails instead on Troys is a minimal issue. I just prefer them to all others as I only attach a sling, front site, and a light.
Quiet-Matt
05-20-11, 20:10
I don't know why people tolerate those Troy rails as many issues as I've seen posted about them.
My "fix" wasn't for a problem, but rather something that I thought I could do to tailor the rail for the specific upper receiver. Troy never intended the tab to be an indexing tab. Other than that, I absoluetly love this rail.
fireblast713
05-25-11, 20:51
nice looking rifle, for $1100 you got a steal of a deal esp considering it's pretty much kitted out exactly how most people customize their rifle (rail, magpul stock, etc)
As soon as I can find one locally in TX I'm getting one.
Sad thing, 2 different gun shops either couldn't get one from their distributor or never even heard of them. DFW gun club pretty much argued with me that I was wrong and SW MP didn't have a weapon called the 15 TS.
Thanks DFW gun club.
Slvr Surfr
06-10-11, 19:07
As soon as I can find one locally in TX I'm getting one.
Sad thing, 2 different gun shops either couldn't get one from their distributor or never even heard of them. DFW gun club pretty much argued with me that I was wrong and SW MP didn't have a weapon called the 15 TS.
Thanks DFW gun club.
I had a friend that ordered his from Buds. Just pick your FFL of choice and have it sent there. No tax and free shipping. No need to deal with idiots who don't know what they are talking about at the local gun shops.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/763_977/products_id/72057
yea, i took advantage of that deal on the m&p9 last year. I chose the magazine option though because for the pistol, it was only $50 and 2 m&p9 magazines cost more than $50.
I had a friend that ordered his from Buds. Just pick your FFL of choice and have it sent there. No tax and free shipping. No need to deal with idiots who don't know what they are talking about at the local gun shops.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/763_977/products_id/72057
I called every S&W dealer in the cont. USA. Buds had the only one I could find and I snatched it up :sarcastic: Everyone I called said they had them on order but didn't expect them to come soon enough! I did find one in Cabela's in Rapid City N. Dakota, that's where I first fondled the beauty and fell in love:D
New Upgrades ;)
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/sneekeedanno/2011-06-12052.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/sneekeedanno/2011-06-12045.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/sneekeedanno/2011-06-12032.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/sneekeedanno/2011-06-12026.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/sneekeedanno/2011-06-12021.jpg
Why do you have a VFG mounted way back behind the AFG?
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/126/xzibit.jpg
"Yo, dawg, I put an extra grip on yo fo'arm, so you kin grip while you grip!"
Having options is often nothing more than a key to indecisiveness.
Why do you have a VFG mounted way back behind the AFG?
I perfer the VFG for close quarter combat, building search/clearing. I have the AFG2 further forward for longer range threat aquisition. It's far more stable for 100+ yards.
Failure2Stop
06-15-11, 06:24
I perfer the VFG for close quarter combat, building search/clearing. I have the AFG2 further forward for longer range threat aquisition. It's far more stable for 100+ yards.
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but having 2 VFGs is silly.
I highly recommend some time with a good instructor or competitive 3-gun shooter.
I'm not sorry. Using any grip for target acquisition would be preposterous.
'Cuz that'd mean flipping the gun upside down and aligning it with the target using the fuzzy rear sight VFG and the clear tip of the front sight AFG to launch rounds out of a super-elevated barrel and into Low-Earth Orbit.
I hope the folks around you at the range aren't letting you get away with that.
Ban incoming in 3.. 2... 1....
Seriously. I am in awe that you bothered to go there. These guys have given you good advice and have more real world experience than most people can even think about. Yet you have to fall back on some preposterous claims and BS. See that Industry professional title they have? It means that they have proven to be not only strong members of this community but knowledgeable people from the industry as a whole. When they speak about something it would behoove you to sit down and listen.
Why am I even feeding the troll. :help:
Fried Chicken Blowout
06-15-11, 14:44
How about we move this along from the thread I started before it gets locked? Thanks!
SWATcop556
06-15-11, 14:50
Disrespecting Mods who are both IPs as well WILL earn you a vacation. Also quoting said douche-ery makes cleanup harder.
Thanks.
Disrespecting Mods who are both IPs as well WILL earn you a vacation. Also quoting said douche-ery makes cleanup harder.
Thanks.
My apologies boss. No more quoting idiots.
How about we move this along from the thread I started before it gets locked? Thanks!
Bah. You are no fun. :)
And it almost got discontinued by Smith...
Fried Chicken Blowout
06-15-11, 20:29
And it almost got discontinued by Smith...
And what almost got discontinued? What information do you have?
I perfer the VFG for close quarter combat, building search/clearing. I have the AFG2 further forward for longer range threat aquisition. It's far more stable for 100+ yards.
Interesting. How much CQB training have you had? Where did you get it?
I know I won't get answer as you have been banned, but I would love to know!
C4
Wow, seems like everyone is out of stock now. My wife has been trying to get one for me while I'm deployed and she has failed miserably.
I'm back in the search to aid my own desire. Both my wife and I would prefer to find a local Texas dealer so she can just go to a store, and leave with it. But, a FFL will work too.
To everyone that owns one, take a look at it for me and know that I'm jealous!
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN4451/web.jpg?ver=12818362090001[/IMG]
The mount seems to be absent on the current catalog models.
I did see the mount on one that S&W had on display, though, a year or so ago.
Quiet-Matt
06-23-11, 14:21
That mount was never available from S&W, that's a home job. All yoy get from Smith is the usual 3 rail sections that come with the Troy rail.
Okay, but that looks like what they had on their traveling roadshow AR.
Anyone seen the latest from Noveske?
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=r-trsc-556&cat=152&page=1
And it costs about $500 more from MSRP.
I'll stick w/ the M&P 15TS as soon as I can find one :-)
That is becoming a very popular design and for good reason. For a civilian shooter needing a HD weapon it is pretty much impossible to beat.
DirectDrive
07-04-11, 15:02
The mount seems to be absent on the current catalog models.
I did see the mount on one that S&W had on display, though, a year or so ago.
That clevis is a marine part. It has to be wired to be failsafe, that's why there is a hole in the bolt tab.
A thread locker might work as well.
Work2shoot
07-04-11, 15:27
I perfer the VFG for close quarter combat, building search/clearing. I have the AFG2 further forward for longer range threat aquisition. It's far more stable for 100+ yards.
Don't let anyone bother you. It's your gun. Just cause a bunch of people on an Internet forum don't like it doesn't mean squat.
I hate to keep posting here but,
If anyone can find a 15TS in stock, either online or locally to TX please PM me. I've been searching for a while and haven't had any luck. I missed the chance for both buds and cheaperthandirt.com and now I regret it. :suicide2:
Thanks
Fried Chicken Blowout
07-13-11, 13:13
You know I tried looking for one for a friend and came up empty... She's also looking for a M&P15 VTAC or the TS. If anyone know of a good place to get either, I'd like to know as well. Palmetto State Armory had a smoking deal on the VTAC a while back, but they ran out too quick for her to get on the offer.
Underwhere
07-13-11, 14:09
I hate to keep posting here but,
If anyone can find a 15TS in stock, either online or locally to TX please PM me. I've been searching for a while and haven't had any luck. I missed the chance for both buds and cheaperthandirt.com and now I regret it. :suicide2:
Thanks
The 15TS seems like a pretty great value.
But if you feel spicy you can build one yourself for pretty much the same price. You can choose the color of your own furniture.
I just built a few very similar rifles recently and here is how they ended up in cost:
Spikes Lower (100 including ffl fee)
Palmetto LPK, MOE Grip and MOE trigger guard (54)
Palmetto MOE Stock, buffer tube, spring and buffer (80)
Magpul MBUS (90)
VTAC Float tube (160)
Adam Arms Piston upper (600)
That's a grand total of 1084 and that's with a piston upper 1 in 7" twist melonited barrel chambered in 5.56
The 14.5" barrel, Troy rail and 6lb total weight is the deciding factor.
I'm looking to have an ultra light, w/ just a T1 on top.
Underwhere
07-14-11, 10:09
The 14.5" barrel, Troy rail and 6lb total weight is the deciding factor.
I'm looking to have an ultra light, w/ just a T1 on top.
The VTAC price is the same as the Troy.
It's funny. You and I have the same thoughts.
I built a rifle with at 14.8" barrel, and troy TRX rail with a T1 micro in a larue mount. I had ADCO cut it down. I used a heavy barrel though.
The VTAC price is the same as the Troy.
It's funny. You and I have the same thoughts.
I built a rifle with at 14.8" barrel, and troy TRX rail with a T1 micro in a larue mount. I had ADCO cut it down. I used a heavy barrel though.
I'd even take the 14.5 w/ a fixed front sight post and slap on a DD omega rail.
My main thing is just looking for a barrel length thats short but doesnt require the tax stamp, we well as a rail that is as long to allow for an extended grip.
I know a 15TS would be lighter due to the troy rail but it seems like building one from the ground up is the only way to go.
I've never built one though, I've always just figured out the model I wanted and picked it up.
Out of the box, the 15TS is the best it can get. That's why I've been so interested. It seems though that supply can't keep up with demand. Hopefully S&W figures it out and bumps up supply because the way it sounds from distributors is that S&W doesn't think the 15TS is a seller. As a result, even when requesting a lot of rifles, S&W only produces a few. Tragic.
Fried Chicken Blowout
07-15-11, 08:50
So the plus for buying the TS as a whole is a lifetime warrantee. You break it they fix it. You shot out the barrel, they install a new one. It's pretty much the same cost as building your own but you get a replacement plan.
Say's the guy w/ 2 15TS's.
Care to let one go ?
J/K
You lucked out getting one when you did.
Fried Chicken Blowout
07-15-11, 11:39
Say's the guy w/ 2 15TS's.
You lucked out getting one when you did.
I knew they'd be hot... So I got two of them.
For the life of me, I don't know why they don't stop making most of the other versions and just make a couple. You could make a base model version, the TS for home the home defense & LE market, the VTAC for the 3-Gunners. Why do they have all the other models? I guess everyone has their opinions. The only thing I would want different on this is the mid-length gas system if it would improve the felt recoil.
The VTAC price is the same as the Troy.
It's funny. You and I have the same thoughts.
I built a rifle with at 14.8" barrel, and troy TRX rail with a T1 micro in a larue mount. I had ADCO cut it down. I used a heavy barrel though.
I like the VTAC rails, hell BCM even has an upper in stock, it's just I really like the 13" TRX Extreme enough to hold off and wait. The 13" rail w/ the 14.5" barrel not only looks good but it's a great setup.
Fried / Or any one who owns a 15TS,
Are you still reporting 1.5 MOA ?
What does the 15TS prefer in terms of bullet weight?
Also, what type of buffer does it come w/?
Fried Chicken Blowout
07-27-11, 03:41
Yes, 1.5 MOA all day long. It don't matter if it's clean or dirty or what the bullet weight is. I just worked up a 75gr Hornady BTHP load for my precision rifle it shoots 1/2 MOA out of the 24" gun but only shoots 1.5" out of the TS. It may mostly be my optic setup. One of them has a 4 MOA Aimpoint and the other is a Burris Tac30 1-4 but the center dot is something like 1.8 MOA so you can't get rear precise.
I did however get to test it with the new 75gr loads yesterday. I was able to make 100% hits on a 12"x18" steel plate at 400 meters in 5 -10 mph wind.
Comes with a carbine buffer.
If my wife is awesome, I may have one in the next few days. Thanks to OldGreg for giving me a heads up.
I've been contacting a few different groups about making one, so I'm still undecided to piece together one w/ a hammer forged barrel, or go w/ the guarantee from Smith and Wesson
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