View Full Version : handgun suggestions
pilotguyo540
08-17-10, 00:44
I am sorry for having to ask, but by search was leaving me tired and not yielding results. The stickies didn't get me very far. Please reprimand me if necessary and close the thread if you want.
I want to do some classes and also get my CCW. When I look through the requirements it is easy to see that my disposable college sidearm (CZ-52) does not cut the mustard. Sadly this is the only hand gun I have ever owned, but I know all of its quirks and limitations very well.
I don't have a preference for any caliber (complete ignorance). I like regular safeties and hammers, but they are not a requirement. I have grown very comfortable with the CZ's single action trigger but see the benefit of DA.
What is important to me is follow up shot speed and reload time. Familiarity is also nice, but I am adaptable. I also have to work within kalifornia's retarded gun laws. This is the only place I know of to get a serious battle ready answer.
Is there anyplace that will let a guy test drive before purchase?
Thanks for the help and sorry for the bad search juju.
PRGGodfather
08-17-10, 01:00
I like the Glock 19 or 26 for what you're talking about. YMMV.
Where are you located? Is there a local range nearby where you might rent one before deciding?
pilotguyo540
08-17-10, 01:11
I am out in placer county. North east of sacramento. The only place I can think of would be "the gun room" in Elk Grove. I don't know if they do rentals or not. Has anyone done business with them before?
Thanks for the suggestions too PRGGodfather!
+1 on checking out a compact or subcompact sized Glock.
Since, you are in Placer County, keep in mind these restrictions when choosing a new handgun...
Caliber: Needs to be between .25 to .45 caliber.
Handgun: Can not have any alterations. Needs to be factory stock in order to be approved & placed on your permit. Handguns will be inspected prior to approval.
http://www.placer.ca.gov/Departments/Sheriff/Saveatrip/~/media/srf/Cwp/CCWCriteriav2.ashx
Alteration of Weapon
The alteration of a weapon approved for a concealed weapons permit is prohibited. This shall include the addition of equipment, alteration of trigger pull, trimming of springs, honing or filing of mechanical parts or any similar or related alteration.
The addition of flashlights, laser sights, star light devices, expanded capacity or extended magazines, or similar modifications, are prohibited and shall constitute an alteration. The alteration of a weapon shall be cause for the immediate seizure of the weapon and revocation of the permit.
Weapon Types
The weapon shall be the product of a recognized manufacturer free from mechanical and other flaws, within tolerances determined by manufacturer’s specifications, and in good working order. Weapons approved shall be either revolver or semi-automatic with an ammunition capacity of no less than five rounds.
Permits will not be issued for weapons having a bullet with a specification of less than .25 caliber, nor greater than .45 caliber. Permits will not be issued for derringer or other “hide-away” type weapons.
DocCasualty
08-17-10, 03:30
+1 on checking out a compact or subcompact sized Glock.
Since, you are in Placer County, keep in mind these restrictions when choosing a new handgun...
Caliber: Needs to be between .25 to .45 caliber.
Handgun: Can not have any alterations. Needs to be factory stock in order to be approved & placed on your permit. Handguns will be inspected prior to approval.
http://www.placer.ca.gov/Departments/Sheriff/Saveatrip/~/media/srf/Cwp/CCWCriteriav2.ashx
Wow, you guys really have some onerous laws there. I knew things were tough but that's insane.
Wow, you guys really have some onerous laws there. I knew things were tough but that's insane.
It's what happens when you have a "may issue" CCW system.
Each county is different.
What may be good to go in one county, may be a no-go in another county.
Map below shows the difference between the different counties in CA, in regards to CCW issuance.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f337/clownburner/OCCCWS/ca_ccw_map-big.png
DocCasualty
08-17-10, 04:19
It's what happens when you have a "may issue" CCW system.
Each county is different.
What may be good to go in one county, may be a no-go in another county.
I remember "may issue" days here and it was next to impossible for an ordinary citizen to obtain a permit. Even then, there was no qualification for type of pistol to be carried, other than passing "safety inspection", which was double-speak for registration. I just can't get over the "can't do this, can't do that" BS. And that varies by the County also?
John_Wayne777
08-17-10, 07:44
What is important to me is follow up shot speed and reload time.
...which is puzzling if you have extremely limited experience with handguns.
What should be important to you is:
- reliability
- cost (both initial purchase and total cost of ownership)
"Followup shot speed" and "reload time" are manipulations that are largely dependent upon you, not the weapon itself.
Is there anyplace that will let a guy test drive before purchase?
Find a gun store with an attached range or somebody in your area who might let you play with some of their guns.
If you can't do that, the simple answer is to shop for a good price on a used 9mm Glock.
pilotguyo540
08-17-10, 08:22
...which is puzzling if you have extremely limited experience with handguns.
What should be important to you is:
- reliability
- cost (both initial purchase and total cost of ownership)
"Followup shot speed" and "reload time" are manipulations that are largely dependent upon you, not the weapon itself.
I didn't bother wasting time typing reliability. I thought that was a given when I posted on M4C ;)
Price is not high on my priority list but is a small factor. Mostly a time issue as I will have to save my pennies.
Follow up shots and reloads are important. With my current gun, a mag change requires 2 hands. The recoil is also sharp so returning to target is not as fast as I would like. Those are some gripes I have that I would like to get past.
I don't have to get my permit in Placer county do I? It was my understanding that I can go to any sheriff for my cc permit. I remember a few years ago the sheriff in yuba or sutter county was catching flak for having a shall issue policy. People were coming from far and, well, not so wide (its a skinny state) to get their permits from what I heard. Then i can add an evil laser and/or evil flashlight!!! What a load of rubbish. Why would those items be outlawed when they increase safety?
John_Wayne777
08-17-10, 08:46
Follow up shots and reloads are important. With my current gun, a mag change requires 2 hands. The recoil is also sharp so returning to target is not as fast as I would like. Those are some gripes I have that I would like to get past.
If your current handgun is a CZ-52 then you're using the short bus of even com-bloc handgun design. In other words, if you buy just about any modern handgun your stated concerns are going to be moot, so the real limiting factor when it comes to firing additional shots and reloading will be you, and not the weapon.
9mm Glocks are generally reliable, are pretty easy to do light customization with, and generally most can learn to run one pretty well...and they don't break the bank. I prefer other guns like the M&P or the P30, but it is hard to go wrong with a G19.
ghettomedic
08-17-10, 09:19
+1 for Glock 19 with factory night sights
Man you all need to vote some folks out of office. All those restrictions would drive me nuts.
Ever make it down to Vegas? I'll let you shoot the Glocks and M&Ps I have til you run out of money for ammo. ;) If you don't have any luck with finding someone on M4C to help you out in your area I'd suggest checking out Calguns.
rbabbitt767
08-17-10, 11:36
I would suggest a Glock 19.
Glock 19 with the RTF2 grip and night sights.
http://www.placer.ca.gov/Departments/Sheriff/Saveatrip/~/media/srf/Cwp/CCWCriteriav2.ashx
Am i understanding that you can't add a flashlight?!?
Business_Casual
08-17-10, 11:47
Am i understanding that you can't add a flashlight?!?
No, that would make it a "military grade weapon" don't you know.
:D
B_C
No, that would make it a "military grade weapon" don't you know.
:D
B_C
That's easily the dumbest thing i've heard today, and i work for the federal govt.
In California, you generally need to get your CCW from the PD or SO in the city or county you actually reside.
Also, unless you already have a bunch of standard capacity magazines, you will be limited to neutered, reduced capacity 10 rd mags. In general, it has been my experience that if illogically limited to neutered, reduced capacity magazines by legislative fiat, it is best to stick with weapons systems designed for those size mags. In particular, we have seen NUMEROUS problems with Glock 10 rd. 9mm mags. The exception being the G26 which was designed around a 10 rd. mag.
The neutered, reduced capacity 10 rd S&W M&P and HK P30 mags tend to work better than the neutered, reduced capacity 10 rd Glock mags.
For CA civilian CCW, the following tend to work well:
J-frame
G26
Sig P239 9mm (if you can find one that works well)
S&W 3919 (or similar)
M&P40c
M&P45 (full size, mid, or compact)
HK45c
High quality 1911 (SA Pro Model or better)
The prohibitions on adding a light, laser, or other enhancements that aid the shooter in identifying and accurately targeting a threat in a lethal force encounter are absolutely idiotic...
Business_Casual
08-17-10, 12:17
That's easily the dumbest thing i've heard today, and i work for the federal govt.
Thank you.
B_C
pilotguyo540
08-17-10, 12:57
thank you all very much for your help. I guess the only reasonable thing to do is move to Reno :( . The desert has its perks.
California can't vote itself out of this mess. Redistricting failed. The tree of liberty is almost dead here.
Thank you for the offer Irish! I may have to take you up on that.
DocGKR, thank you for your expert opinion and bringing several factors together for me.
Its funny that everyone hates californians. We were fine until you sent us all of your hippies. :D
The prohibitions on adding a light, laser, or other enhancements that aid the shooter in identifying and accurately targeting a threat in a lethal force encounter are absolutely idiotic...
I could see why the public perception of a laser sight could cause an unnecessary ban. Not that i advocate that. I love my ct grips, but i can see why a non gun owner would be afraid of them. A flashlight on the other hand, no. That's asinine.
To the OP, the G19 is highly recommended. Shoot before you buy.
Thank you for the offer Irish! I may have to take you up on that.
I may be coming up to Reno soon for business. If I do I'll bring along a Glock 19 and a M&P 9mm for you to shoot. Last time I was up there I had some spare time and checked out all the gun stores in town. Without a doubt the best one I could find was http://www.usfirearmsacademy.com/. Friendly, helpful, no attitude and good selection of guns & accessories.
My response to "what handgun should I get" is almost ALWAYS the Glock 19. However, since you're living in occupied territory, you have several "unique" issues to face.
One of the G19's biggest attributes is it's size efficiency - 15+1 in a lightweight compact package. Reduce that count to 10+1, and you lose some of that advantage, especially considering you can get the same capacity in .45 ACP in nearly the same size package with the G30SF. Concealability with the G30SF is somewhat reduced due to the width of the slide, and the grip is truly a handful, but it's a fairly soft-shooting, accurate pistol. The G26 is another natural choice, given your capacity limitations, but a lot of people find the baby Glocks hard to shoot without some sort of magazine extension/enhancement. I personally find the .40 caliber Glocks to be pretty snappy in recoil - they're not uncontrollable, but they're not much fun for extended range sessions - especially the G27. All of the Glocks are reliable, reasonably accurate, have perfectly workable triggers with short reset, are lightweight (making them a joy to carry), and are very resistant to the elements.
If you want to stick with a single action pistol, a nice Commander sized 1911 would be hard to beat; with an allow frame, they're pretty "carry-able" as well. IMHO, there's no platform easier to shoot accurately and fast as the 1911, but it's a platform that frequently requires a LOT of attention to get running reliably, and has a manual of arms and trigger that are NOT tolerant of sloppy handling, so dedicated training is a must.
Any of DocGKR's recommendations would float my boat, except for the P239, which I never cared for on a personal basis.
Regards,
Kevin
varoadking
08-17-10, 18:31
Personally, I'd get a Kahr...a PM45 to be precise...
The Glock 19 is a great gun and will serve you well but in case it is too big too big I would recommend a M&P9c.
I suggest you try and shoot both first. I would personally take a M&P9c over a G26 any day.
don't rule out or forget a good smith and wesson revolver- one of the best choices for civlian carry in my opinion-once practiced will be quite accurate, very reliable,even cali pc not one of those evil automatics but just as effective
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