View Full Version : Springfield XDM 45
I've been looking at the new XDM 45. Anyone have an y experience with the XDM line in general? What about the XD 45 also. Pro's and con's. Any comparisons between the XDM and M&P's.
John_Wayne777
08-18-10, 13:59
Some previous XD threads:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=37731
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=23601
Short version: Skip XD's.
How do they compare to M&P's?
Short answer: If you compare the number of XD's in police holsters to M&P you find out that they don't. M&P's are pretty widely adopted, XD's are not.
Should have done a search first. :eek: Sorry
A friend of mine was completely into the XDM line and carried a .40 on duty for the last couple years. I recently took him to the range and let him shoot my 9mm and .45 and he promptly sold the XDM and got a .45 FS M&P for duty. The only thing I don't like about the M&P is the 10 round mags, and if you want 14 you have to have that ridiculously huge grip on it.
I ditched my XD 45 Tactical for 2 primary reasons:
1. The looooong trigger reset that was vastly different than the Glocks that I train with and my 1911 for that matter. Even an excellent smith doing a trigger job couldn't help that.
2. The takedown lever is perfectly positioned to stab me in the thumb of my weak hand with the recoil when I shoot with a proper thumbs-forward grip. It was most irritating, especially in competition.
Because of those two things I found myself shooting it only rarely. I have limited space in the safe, and I don't have room for safe queens. I replaced it with a Glock 21.
I watched a guy at the range struggle with multiple FTF's on his new XD. It could have been the Wolf ammo, but the gun simply didnt run.
I like my XDM 40. I really like the feel of it in my hands compared to my Glock 19. It def feels bulkier than my glock 19 but that should be a given. I think the trigger is smoother out of the box than the glock, but has a longer re-set like mentioned before in this thread. I don't have huge hands, but I do use the biggest back strap because it helps keep my hand wrapped around enough of the grip and makes me to use just my finger tip on the trigger.
It's a good thing to have around for home defense anmd certainly fun to have in the truck when riding around the deer lease. A set of Trijicon sights is all I have done to it thus far.
Lucky Strike
08-19-10, 14:59
I've got one in (well a standard xd in 9mm) and love it...it won't get much love here due to it not being adopted by police agencies (which is understandable) but I've never had an issue. I've had it worked over by Springer Precision (trigger job, grip chop/stippling, etc) and it's probably my favorite gun to shoot.
Just to err on the side of caution (since my life could depend on it and all) though I bought a P30 (currently being worked on by GreyGuns) to maybe start using as a CCW instead. The XD would then be moved to a competition only gun.
I haven't really shot a full size glock extensively but I have shot my friends M&P and liked shooting the XD more. Hopefully the P30 will become my favorite over all of them.
Try a Glock 21. I have shot xdm's and M&P's still like the glocks.
Magic_Salad0892
08-19-10, 20:48
1 - NO ARMOURY SUPPORT.
Cannot find factory replacements anywhere. Or aftermarket upgrades/modifications. (IE: Glock Vickers magazine catch. etc.)
2 - UNRELIABLE MAGAZINES.
I've never not seen one fail. Every time I see somebody at the range I see them fumbling around with magazines trying to get one to work. Also their damn expensive, for damn magazines.
3 - POOR ERGONOMICS.
I hated the trigger pull on the ones I shot, the magazine catch wont work on a full magazine, the bore axis was waaay too high.
There's more but I don't feel like rambling. You can read it in other threads.
Some previous XD threads:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=37731
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=23601
Short version: Skip XD's.
How do they compare to M&P's?
Short answer: If you compare the number of XD's in police holsters to M&P you find out that they don't. M&P's are pretty widely adopted, XD's are not.
I have read these thread and the least I can say is the they contain quite a bit of misinformation just like the internet regurgitation in the post just above mine about parts, mags etc.
Also it seems the numerous issues the M&P has encountered are always conveniently brushed aside. I really like the M&P it's a great gun but it has had more than it's fair share of problems...
And to say the M&P has a less than stellar stock trigger would be an understatement. Lastly the OP is asking about the XD(M), not the XD and the XD(M) is a big improvement over the XD.
John_Wayne777
08-20-10, 07:42
Also it seems the numerous issues the M&P has encountered are always conveniently brushed aside.
It's exceedingly difficult to argue that the problems the M&P has experienced have been "brushed aside" when there is a 28 page thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=52771) in our handguns forum that discusses the problems people have encountered with the M&P.
I really like the M&P it's a great gun but it has had more than it's fair share of problems...
Nobody said it was perfect. Perfection is the marketing claim made by another gun company. Every gun has issues...the question is whether or not they are manageable.
A lot of police departments have decided that the M&P's issues are at least manageable while rejecting the XD.
Nobody here gets any money in their pocket for saying that...nor do they receive free gear or discounts. That's just the objective truth.
Sure, the M&P has had it's fair share of problems, But unlike the XD, S&W has worked to fix them..When they first came out the M&P's had problems with mags dropping out, slides rusting, strikers breaking, All of these problems have been resolved,Apex tactical's parts fixed the lousy stock triggers,4-5 striker revisions, resulted in a striker that can hold up to 70,000 dry fire cycles. In fact, S&W is currently copying Apex's parts.They changed vendors who are doing the Meloniting, I had a XD 45..It would never feed LSWC's, it wasn't until SA came out with the XDm, 9years after the XD was introduced, that they had a XD that could do something simple like reliabily feed LSWC's, My M&P could do this out of the box, in 3000rnds I've had 1 FTF.. The key here, is that S&W continued to improve the M&P, and resolve issues when they popped up, SA did'nt..they had to resdesign the whole pistol, and still did'nt fix some issues like, the guide rod installed off center locking up the pistol,when racked. Over on the XD forums there is at least one report of this happening to a XDm,And when this person called SA about it they wanted to see it as they told him,The XDm was supposed to redisgned to prevent this from happening.. I don't care what anyone says, in a supposed "service" pistol this should'nt happen at all, and is unacceptable, it's not a "training issue" it's a flaw.. As far as I know, the XD, XDm are the only pistols I know of that can be locked up by simply installing the guide rod assembly off center..It's issues like this, that SA has failed to resolve, is why the Xd,XDm will never be taken seriously, I had one,(XD45,4" service) My experience's with it were less that stellar...
I must be one of the few lucky ones then. I've owned an XD-9 for five years and haven't had any major malfunctions. I will say however, that the trigger was absolutely horrible when I first bought it but it broke in quite nicely.
As far as I know, the XD, XDm are the only pistols I know of that can be locked up by simply installing the guide rod assembly off center..It's issues like this, that SA has failed to resolve, is why the Xd,XDm will never be taken seriously, I had one,(XD45,4" service) My experience's with it were less that stellar...
That happened to me with my XD45 Compact. Damn thing locked up on me when I reassambled it, because the guide rod wasn't seated properly.
I have spent a lot of time shooting M&P 9s, 40s, and 45s side by side with their respective XD's. I have yet to find a single thing (aside from capacity) that the XD does better than the M&P. Nothing.
The M&P has (a whole lot) less muzzle flip and recoil.
The M&P is more accurate (at least the ones that I have seen)
The M&P has better and more adjustable ergonomics.
The M&P has better controls.
The M&P doesn't have a poorly conceived frame safety that has caused misfires in my hand.
The M&P has better parts availability.
The M&P can be disassembled and repaired easily by a person of normal intelligence and manual dexterity, whereas the XD will often require a trip back to SA.
The M&P has a better trigger out of the box, and can be made to be superb with a relatively inexpensive drop in kit
The M&P gets higher marks for reliability and durability from people with exposure to a lot of guns undergoing high round counts.
So far as issues with the M&P go, there currently are not very many... and none are what I would consider 'serious'.
The mag drop issue has been a non-issue for a long time, as has the finish issue.
The current striker is rated for 70,000 dry fires, and will not break on snap caps or live rounds.
The extraction issue is limited to certain guns firing certain out-of-spec budget practice ammo, and tends to occur once out of every several hundred rounds. It will not rear its head when shooting defensive ammo from reputable manufacturers.
Reports here and elsewhere indicate that M&P's routinely survive high round count classes.
I can understand why some people might prefer a Glock, Sig, or H&K over an M&P. I can also see what might make some stick with a CZ or 92FS. I can not, however, understand what people see in the XD that causes them to stick with it when so many better choices are available. My first gun was an XD, and I tried very hard to love it. I could not.
boondocksaint
08-20-10, 18:24
[QUOTE=Magic_Salad0892;737530]
2 - UNRELIABLE MAGAZINES.
I've never not seen one fail. Every time I see somebody at the range I see them fumbling around with magazines trying to get one to work. Also their damn expensive, for damn magazines.
3 - POOR ERGONOMICS.
I hated the trigger pull on the ones I shot, the magazine catch wont work on a full magazine, the bore axis was waaay too high.
QUOTE]
Personal feelings/preferences...
My 2 cents:
My two primary duty guns are an XDM 40 and a Glock 23. I love both for different reasons/situations.
I bought the XDM in the spring and only have about 1,500 rounds through it. I haven't had a single problem with it or the magazines. Although I do agree they are a bit pricey for replacements/extras.
I like the G23 better for the concealability. But, as far as ergonomics goes, I find the XD/XDM is far more comfortable in my paws.
Whatever you choose...Enjoy!
varoadking
08-20-10, 18:32
My first gun was an XD, and I tried very hard to love it. I could not.
My first handgun was a Smith & Wesson model 19...in 1975.
I've had 4 XD's - sold them all. I don't understand what people see in them either...
It's exceedingly difficult to argue that the problems the M&P has experienced have been "brushed aside" when there is a 28 page thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=52771) in our handguns forum that discusses the problems people have encountered with the M&P.
Actually it isn't. Every time someone comes here asking for a recomendation the choir starts singing the praise of the M&P without ever mentioning any of its numerous teething problems. Faults of competing platforms, whether true or made up are however always pointed out as examplified in this very thread.
BTW I just quickly went over the M&P problem thread and apparently I'm not the only one left with this impression:
I'm confused about the M&P and why folks here find it so impressive. I like the low bore axis/etc, I can get on board with that. But why would a group of folks who really use their weapons hard tolerate a pistol that requires a bunch of fixes and upgrades out-of-the-box? Any other platform would be laughed away if it required that.
I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I'm just genuinely confused why such a no-BS group of people would tolerate this situation.
Its amazing to hear of all the different problems that seem to plague the M&P. makes one think twice about buying one despite the improved ergonomics of the piece vice the Glock.
The bottom line is that recommending the M&P should come with a caveat emptor, and here it never does.
Nobody said it was perfect. Perfection is the marketing claim made by another gun company. Every gun has issues...the question is whether or not they are manageable.
Consistently omitting to reference the issues encountered by the M&P while at the same time pointing out every single deficiency of other platforms does in fact make the M&P appear like it is perfect. The quote from the M&P problem thread I posted above illustrates just that.
A lot of police departments have decided that the M&P's issues are at least manageable while rejecting the XD.
Agreed... but I don't think basing one's choice on a group people who select their hardware based on a set of criteria that can at times be very different of those of an individual is that important or relevant when choosing a weapon. It's something you take into account with a huge grain of salt especially considering who these weapons are destined to be used by.
I can make a much better case against the XD by simply stating known and verified facts i.e. that the recoil spring assembly sometimes comes apart or that its striker pin can break or works its way loose even on low round pistols which have seen very little dry fire. Both matters are very serious as either will render the gun completely unusuable. The recoil spring assembly issue only seems to affect the service model (the tactical has a classic guide rod, the sub compact assy a different design) and can be addressed by swapping the OEM part for an aftermarket guide rod. The striker pin issue can also be addressed with aftermarket parts but it has yet to be proven that these solve the problem entirely. The pin issue affects all size and caliber XDs. Another albeit far less severe problem with the XD that was mentionned earlier is that it won't feed SWC and magazines can actually get damaged while trying to do so. In summary I think the striker pin issue is a major one, a design flaw any prospective buyer should be made aware of (...just as they should be made aware of the repeated striker problems encountered by the M&P...).
Nobody here gets any money in their pocket for saying that...nor do they receive free gear or discounts. That's just the objective truth.
No but what some seem to do is peddle whatever gear they are using just like on any other gun website. That's OK as people always seem to have a hard time being objective when it comes to their own firearms. What I find utterly annoying though is when fact are made up like stating that the XD has to be sent back to SA to replace a broken extractor like I read in one of the XD bashing threads or that all XD have mags problems, or that that the M&P trigger is so much better than the XD etc. I somehow expected a more objective, technical and factual approach like the one in the post below:
Sure, the M&P has had it's fair share of problems, But unlike the XD, S&W has worked to fix them..When they first came out the M&P's had problems with mags dropping out, slides rusting, strikers breaking, All of these problems have been resolved,Apex tactical's parts fixed the lousy stock triggers,4-5 striker revisions, resulted in a striker that can hold up to 70,000 dry fire cycles. In fact, S&W is currently copying Apex's parts.They changed vendors who are doing the Meloniting, I had a XD 45..It would never feed LSWC's, it wasn't until SA came out with the XDm, 9years after the XD was introduced, that they had a XD that could do something simple like reliabily feed LSWC's, My M&P could do this out of the box, in 3000rnds I've had 1 FTF.. The key here, is that S&W continued to improve the M&P, and resolve issues when they popped up, SA did'nt..they had to resdesign the whole pistol, and still did'nt fix some issues like, the guide rod installed off center locking up the pistol,when racked. Over on the XD forums there is at least one report of this happening to a XDm,And when this person called SA about it they wanted to see it as they told him,The XDm was supposed to redisgned to prevent this from happening.. I don't care what anyone says, in a supposed "service" pistol this should'nt happen at all, and is unacceptable, it's not a "training issue" it's a flaw.. As far as I know, the XD, XDm are the only pistols I know of that can be locked up by simply installing the guide rod assembly off center..It's issues like this, that SA has failed to resolve, is why the Xd,XDm will never be taken seriously, I had one,(XD45,4" service) My experience's with it were less that stellar...
Anyways this was just my 02 cents... feel free to ignore them... Also that was way too much writing for me so I'll go back to reading :ph34r:
John_Wayne777
08-24-10, 06:54
Actually it isn't. Every time someone comes here asking for a recomendation the choir starts singing the praise of the M&P without ever mentioning any of its numerous teething problems.
Ok, folks...my patience with this sort of post is growing exceptionally thin.
When people come here looking for a recommendation the M&P is one of the weapons that gets a lot of nods from a number of members of M4C. Why? Because a lot of the members have good experiences with the M&P and there is a lot of good feedback from agency users in agencies that issue the M&P by the thousand. It's one of the most popular sidearms in law enforcement currently. While it's not a perfect product (and no industrially produced item ever can be), there's enough of a track record out there to hold that it's a fairly good bet ceteris paribus....certainly a better bet than many other weapons currently on the market.
9mm Glocks also receive a lot of recommendations, and are essentially the default recommendation. Why? Because a lot of the members have good experiences with them and there is a lot of good feedback from agency users in agencies that have issued 9mm Glocks by the thousand.
...starting to notice a pattern?
BTW I just quickly went over the M&P problem thread and apparently I'm not the only one left with this impression:
Instead of "quickly going over" the thread and cherry picking a couple of posts to suit your preferences for a response, how about reading the whole thread including the substantive responses to those posts? It's absolutely maddening to hear someone complain that the flaws of the M&P are never discussed in one breath and then to hear them say they haven't bothered to read a twenty-eight page thread where those problems are discussed the next.
The bottom line is that recommending the M&P should come with a caveat emptor, and here it never does.
That's baloney. Again...you signed up in June of this year. It's absurd to hear you speak in absolutes about a site you've been on for a couple of months. I've been reading the discussions on handguns on this forum for YEARS and have been participating in discussions about handguns with several of our IP's and SME's face to face for YEARS. I've personally posted about the issues I've encountered with the M&P on multiple occasions.
Your inability to use the search function or read threads that discuss those issues does not translate into any sort of tawdry bias on the forum.
The quote from the M&P problem thread I posted above illustrates just that.
Once more: Read the bloody thread...all of it...before attempting to make arguments based on it.
Agreed... but I don't think basing one's choice on a group people who select their hardware based on a set of criteria that can at times be very different of those of an individual is that important or relevant when choosing a weapon.
I think that when someone is considering the purchase of a handgun that they intend to use for serious social purposes it makes a lot of sense to look at what is in use among those who are most likely to use a handgun for serious social purposes. The experience that, say, the FAMS is having with the P250 is extremely relevant to the individual who may be considering the purchase of a Sig P250. The experience the NCHP and several other departments are having with the M&P is relevant to the individual who is looking for an alternative to a 9mm Glock. The experiences a number of agency users have had with .40 caliber Glocks is relevant to the individual who is considering the purchase of one.
Yes, what the NSWG selects for their suppressed handgun may not have a direct application to the needs of the average joe, but if their new HK45C guns turn out to tolerate absurdly high round counts with almost zero maintenance well then it helps inform the choice of the consumer who is looking for a handgun they can depend on to function when they need it to.
The advice offered by the membership of this forum is, generally speaking, superb and has generally an excellent track record of delivering a happy result for the prospective buyer. That's made possible in large part because of consideration of how various weapons have fared in mass issue. It's a basic principle of statistics that larger sample sizes allow for better applicability to a larger population.
It's something you take into account with a huge grain of salt especially considering who these weapons are destined to be used by.
After a lot of years studying the topic and a lot of training and a couple of personal experiences, I'm convinced that the person who is being approached by some crackhead at the ATM needs his/her pistol to function every bit as much as the member of a counter-terrorism unit who is in the middle of a direct action mission. I, and most of the members of the forum, assume that the prospective buyer is actually going to use the firearm and would thus need a weapon they can count on to deliver.
It is simply objective fact that some options on the market have a better shot at delivering when the chips are down than others. We try and steer people toward those options for their benefit.
No but what some seem to do is peddle whatever gear they are using just like on any other gun website.
Again, this is baloney. I do not use a Glock 19. I do not carry a Glock 19. I no longer own a Glock 19...but I have personally recommended it on a number of occasions because: They generally work. Lots of guys who do use G19's recommend them...but they use them in the first place because: They generally work.
If someone is unable to tell the difference between some assclown on ARFCOM praising Hi-Points because his gun has gone through 200 whole rounds without blowing up and members of large agencies that issue thousands of a particular pistol posting a recommendation grounded in experience and reality, then I'm afraid there is little hope for them.
What I find utterly annoying though is when fact are made up like stating that the XD has to be sent back to SA to replace a broken extractor like I read in one of the XD bashing threads
Made up? It's not "made up" when an agency included the XD in their trials for a new sidearm and they were told by the Springfield rep that armorer level repairs (like replacing a broken extractor) would require a trip back to Springfield. Is that Springfield's current model of operation? I don't know...but I do know that at least in the past multiple agencies have been told that armorer level stuff had to be done at the Springfield factory, which is one reason why those agencies rejected the weapon. Thus it's not "made up."
or that all XD have mags problems,
It's not the least bit out of bounds to suggest that the XD's magazines tend to be more fragile than the magazines for other popular options on the market like Glocks or M&P's...especially when the people who are making that assertion have themselves run the XD's hard and found that the magazines are more fragile than the magazines for other popular options on the market like Glocks or M&P's.
I somehow expected a more objective, technical and factual approach like the one in the post below
IF you had troubled yourself to read the entire thread...or hundreds of other threads in the past...you'd see a wealth of objective, technical and factual information. Ralph's post is the rule, not the exception.
Anyways this was just my 02 cents... feel free to ignore them... Also that was way too much writing for me so I'll go back to reading :ph34r:
Reading more and griping less would definitely be a good idea.
Folks, I'm about at my limit with this sort of thing. I'm sick of people showing up on the forum and making accusations of bias. I'm sick of trying to patiently explain why we make the recommendations we make and of M4C being on trial because somebody with hurt feelings thinks we have a bias.
Well, we do have a bias...we have a bias for stuff that works, and a bias against stuff that doesn't. It's as simple as that.
I'm rapidly losing any sense of sympathy for people who are so busy arguing that they seem to lack the strength to click on the search button or to read threads that deal with issues they claim are ignored. It adds no value to the forum and generally tips the signal to noise ratio far too much in favor of noise. This thread has now wandered far into the noise category. As such, it's done.
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