View Full Version : IPSC First Timer with Video
This Sunday I will be participating in my first IPSC match. I have never been to a competition before, not even to spectate. I will be participating in Production Class.
While gathering as much information as I could on the USPSA website, I read that they recommend 3 - 4 magazine carriers and a quality holster. I was wondering if some experienced shooters could give me some input/tips in regards to equipment or techniques. I am shooting on a budget so High dollar equipment is not really an option.
So, here is a list of the equipment that I will be using:
-M&P 45 Full Size
-200gr SWC Lead w/ 4.2gr Bullseye
-Galco concealable belt holster @3 o'clock
-Condor 3mag pistol pouch @ 9 o'clock
-BlackHawk Carbon/Plastic Single Mag Carrier @ 10:30
-And an Inexpensive "rigging" belt
556
Your list looks good to go from my view. For sure you will need 4 mag carriers... I use 5 but I can count on one hand the times I've needed the 5th and usually use it as a loader magazine. For starting out, I am sure the club will have a safety brief for all new shooters. There they should cover the basics, rules, stuff like that... The common theme on advice is almost always going to be to just go slow...very slow...maintain safety as the num 1 priority and just have fun... Don't worry about the results...you will probably come in near the bottom. Almost ALL of us did when we started. I'm a GM ranked shooter in production and Limited, so I've seen lots of new shooters come through the door. It's a great sport and if you keep coming back you will learn a ton about shooting performance and yourself. Welcome to the game and good luck. Please come back and post up how it went and give us an after action report!! Bryan W
uscbigdawg
08-18-10, 22:20
All that is perfectly fine in Production Division. Biggest things you need to do BEFORE the match are:
- If you can contact someone at the club, meet with them to go over the basics
- Practice drawing and reloading safely (i.e. don't sweep yourself, anyone behind you or around you and do all the above with your finger out of the trigger guard)
- Check the zero of your pistol
On match day, get there a little early, offer to help setup and let them know you're a total newbie. I'm sure they'll assign you to one of their seasoned members that will escort you through the what, where's and how's. The shooting in any competition sport is not very difficult. It's usually 'all the other stuff' that complicates matters. So, focus on safety, having fun and not being intimidated by those that are going faster. Your job is to just be safe and have fun. The speed will come.
Have fun and let us know how it goes.
Rich
usc made some excellent additional points - most clubs do and will assign you to a more experienced shooter or squad of shooters to help you. Don't be afraid to ask questions about rules, or even how you should approach shooting a stage... but starting out you will just want to walk and not run.
usc's other point about not being intimidated by faster shooters is spot on too... so so many guys that come out and try these matches don't come back because of this... and yes it can be intimidating, so having some realistic expectations out of the gate will help with this.... that goal simply needs to be...have a safe match, and have fun.
Thanks for the replies gentlemen! I neglected to mention that I will be attending with a team of local shooters from the pistol range where I practice. They invited me to come out after watching me shoot and talking to me. They all seem like a great group of people.
I'm not looking to win any matches (Just yet :D). I'm just wanting to have a good time and as always, improve my skills.
I will defiantly let all know the results. I am also hoping to have my buddy, who will be shooting for his first time as well, record some digital footage of me.
Again, thank you for the positive remarks!
video is good stuff.... a great way to learn and get better. Have fun and post up those videos down the road...
You might be surprised how well you place if you:
-Go slow enough to get your hits.
-Finish the match without a safety violation
-Have fun
-Try not to change some large fundamental in your shooting at sometime in the day because you observe a new technique.
The video is a great idea! Take video yourself if you can of other shooters in your squad. It is very easy to get excited and really try to burn a stage down after you see someone shoot it well. If you're capable of A zone hits all day, you will place better than a faster shooter who throws charlies and deltas left and right. It's also easy to see something someone else is doing that makes so much sense you're tempted to try it. Don't kid yourself; think back to last time you made even a minor change to your grip or reload and how much practice it took to even become familiar with the new technique. You won't shoot enough rounds in the match to even know if it works for you. Go slow enough to make sure you have the grip you need and see what you need to see from your sights. Drive your sights on even the close targets to make sure you get A's. I have seen many very competent shooters go out and solidly beat B class shooters in their very first match but I've also seen some good shooters get stomped when they get a little "Don Johnson/Miami Vice" on a stage after watching a GM burn it down with an open gun.
IPSC will permit you to walk the stage and air gun it. Plan your movement in as much straight line as possible. Count your shots and plan your reloads. A slide lock reload will be slower than a reload without retention. Try not to leave a position on a piece of steel if possible. You're shooting a .45 so poppers should fall if hit solidly but can sometimes give you a little trouble if only hit 'well' with 115 9mm. Better to take the steel first and then poke holes in paper. Watch for stages with lots of lateral movement or straight line movement with targets on your flanks. These are the 180 rule traps that can get you busted for a 180 violation. Going slow enough to make sure you know where your muzzle is pointed at all times will earn you a reputation as a safe shooter - which is the most important thing in your first match. Impress your peers with your awareness, not your marksmanship - that will come & with speed.
When asked to unload and show clear, allow your chambered round to fall into the RO/SO's hand or on the ground. Don't try to catch it or retain it. Consider it a discharged cartridge. If you really want it back, go pick it up (if the range rules allow) after your squad is finished and all of you move to the next stage.
Have fun & good luck; it's an addicting discipline.
I've been shooting USPSA more and more lately. I enjoy the opportunity to put rounds down range, and now most of the other shooters are learning that I'm not interested in advice on how to "win". :D
I'm a long-time IDPA shooter so there are some rule differences that I don't understand just yet, but I shoot it my way, on my time, and have a good time with it. I think that's the best way to go starting out, and once you get the feel for the range etiquette and the way things work then you can see if you're concerned with winning or not.
I'm shooting again tonight and looking forward to it.
I myself just started shooting USPSA and have shot IDPA in the past. It is a great time but I do suffer from those that argue the "gamer" mentality is detrimental. it is mostly from those who have not tried it and are to narrow minded to think that skills cannot cross over.
When it comes to shooting it is what it is to the person pulling the trigger. If I can get a few hundred rounds downrange in a safe and accurate manner why wouldn't I do it? I see it as a good time to meet others shooters and absorb technique etc. You also have the opportunity to shoot at some interesting targets and COF's that you may never have a chance to shoot at. I shot my first Texas star at my last match and it directly contribute to the poorest placing I have ever had in any match discipline I have shot. So I learned a weakness and grew from it.
I would def echo all of the previous posters advice especially about going slow and the safety aspect as your brain can get overrun at first (it did for me anyway). USPSA is definitely a thinking game as far as when to plan reloads and target engagement etc. Many times I have hit stages where poppers were activators and a lack of reloading at a particular point caused the reload to happen while the prop was in motion losing the chance to engage it etc.
As far as equipment I run my carry guns Glock 19 and 26 to a 34 I run in IDPA.
Again it is what you make of it and what your goals are, as mentioned previously it is a lot of fun and addictive.
The people are great and are open books with advice etc. On your first stage go slow and concentrate on good hits. Also help paste targets and when you are ready help score. At the end of the day help tear down. Those things go a long way towards creating positive impressions and relationships with other like minded people.
Good luck and don't give up on a hard stage, slow down and stick with it, you finishing it will only help you. Enos' book is pretty cool on the mental aspect of it all.
You might be surprised how well you place if you:
-Go slow enough to get your hits.
-Finish the match without a safety violation
-Have fun
-Try not to change some large fundamental in your shooting at sometime in the day because you observe a new technique.
The video is a great idea! Take video yourself if you can of other shooters in your squad. It is very easy to get excited and really try to burn a stage down after you see someone shoot it well. If you're capable of A zone hits all day, you will place better than a faster shooter who throws charlies and deltas left and right. It's also easy to see something someone else is doing that makes so much sense you're tempted to try it. Don't kid yourself; think back to last time you made even a minor change to your grip or reload and how much practice it took to even become familiar with the new technique. You won't shoot enough rounds in the match to even know if it works for you. Go slow enough to make sure you have the grip you need and see what you need to see from your sights. Drive your sights on even the close targets to make sure you get A's. I have seen many very competent shooters go out and solidly beat B class shooters in their very first match but I've also seen some good shooters get stomped when they get a little "Don Johnson/Miami Vice" on a stage after watching a GM burn it down with an open gun.
IPSC will permit you to walk the stage and air gun it. Plan your movement in as much straight line as possible. Count your shots and plan your reloads. A slide lock reload will be slower than a reload without retention. Try not to leave a position on a piece of steel if possible. You're shooting a .45 so poppers should fall if hit solidly but can sometimes give you a little trouble if only hit 'well' with 115 9mm. Better to take the steel first and then poke holes in paper. Watch for stages with lots of lateral movement or straight line movement with targets on your flanks. These are the 180 rule traps that can get you busted for a 180 violation. Going slow enough to make sure you know where your muzzle is pointed at all times will earn you a reputation as a safe shooter - which is the most important thing in your first match. Impress your peers with your awareness, not your marksmanship - that will come & with speed.
When asked to unload and show clear, allow your chambered round to fall into the RO/SO's hand or on the ground. Don't try to catch it or retain it. Consider it a discharged cartridge. If you really want it back, go pick it up (if the range rules allow) after your squad is finished and all of you move to the next stage.
Have fun & good luck; it's an addicting discipline.
Nice post igoswoop - great info.
Thank you all for giving me solid no BS info. It is much appreciated!
When asked to unload and show clear, allow your chambered round to fall into the RO/SO's hand or on the ground. Don't try to catch it or retain it. Consider it a discharged cartridge. If you really want it back, go pick it up (if the range rules allow) after your squad is finished and all of you move to the next stage.
This is something I just noticed last night. I roll the gun outboard and retract the slide while engaging the slide stop to lock the slide to the rear. It just happens to put my support hand over the ejection port and the round winds up in my hand. I noticed last night that a lot of the ROs were looking for the round. Is this an official USPSA thing that you're supposed to let the RO catch the round or is it just a common thing?
IMO it's best to keep your fingers away from the ejection port and just let that ejected round hit the ground.
I know of two detonations in clubs I've belonged to where the ejected round caught a bent or defective ejector and exploded. I was present for one - a newish .40 S&W 1911 - and the resultant shrapnel embedded in the shooters hand/fingers did not cause permanent damage.
In the other - a .38 Super - the shooter lost the use of a couple of fingers.
I don't see how that's going to be possible without pinching the slide from the rear, which I'm not going to do.
In over 8 years of IDPA, 7 as an SO, I've never even heard of that happening at our club, or any other that we're affiliated with or in the area.
Singlestack Wonder
08-20-10, 10:46
Seen several round detonations where the shooter had his hand over the ejection port and racked the slide to eject the round. Blood, brass shrapnel in hand, and a held up match. This is a very dangerous practice. When unloading, grasp the slide from the rear and allow the round to fall. Another danger is when shooters show off while unloading and rack the side at a high velocity to send the round up in the air so that they can catch it. If it escapes the extractor and the primer impacts the ejector, a brass shrapnel bomb is created.
I've posted about the "detonation" issue on my club's forum to see if anyone else has ever seen or heard of this. For now, personally, I think it's a non-issue but will keep it in mind for SO refresher course we're having soon.
At the very least don't have the RO/SO look in the ejection port until after the round is ejected. This is a Murphy's Law scenario.
At the very least don't have the RO/SO look in the ejection port until after the round is ejected. This is a Murphy's Law scenario.
Excellent point, and I will also advise that SOs not catch the round themselves. If a shooter chooses to do so on a gun that they think they know well enough to trust that is their issue, but as an SO who is unsure of the condition of the gun or the shooter best to simply let it fall on the ground.
I actually had a shooter last week sort of "chase" me with his rifle expecting me to catch the round and I just let it fall to the ground.
ROCKET20_GINSU
08-20-10, 12:02
While I have never personally experience this problem, I've heard of the potential detonation issue while unloading as well. The stories are more frequent with pistols that use large pistol primers. I no longer keep my support hand over the ejection port when unloading the pistol, I don't think that the ejector igniting the primer is a common problem but its enough of a risk (due to the level of injury that could occur) to avoid doing it. Every little bit of extra insurance and gun safety helps :)
GU
I always thought the round-catching thing was a little silly. I just let it fly, but to each their own.
As for placing one's hand over the ejection port, I've heard horror stories for many years originating from that practice. You never sweep your hand with the muzzle, right? Well, the breech is the other end of that same, potentially violent space -- best kept at a distance by grabbing the serrations from behind the slide.
I always thought the round-catching thing was a little silly. I just let it fly, but to each their own.
As for placing one's hand over the ejection port, I've heard horror stories for many years originating from that practice. You never sweep your hand with the muzzle, right? Well, the breech is the other end of that same, potentially violent space -- best kept at a distance by grabbing the serrations from behind the slide.
While I've never seen someone shoot themselves in the hand, I've seen the end result of that mistake no less than 5 times, in person.
This exploding bullet business I've never even heard of anywhere but on the internut and even then not seen any pictures of the aftermath.
In the former case therefore in my mind it's a very real potential problem, and in fact the gun is then doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing, while in the latter it's at best a malfunction and a fantasy malfunction based on my prior experience at that.
shooting is an inherently dangerous activity. We have to minimize that danger wherever we can, but we also have to balance that with the fact that we are taking a risk every time we pull the trigger, or even pick up a gun.
Extractor igniting primer!? :blink:
I have never heard of such a thing.. And I usually unload the same way that Rob described...
Not sure what to think of this one. If the slide slammed foreward on a round that was half out, then maybe. I don't see this scenario as being very plausible. But, that's just me. I mean... If you saw it happen, then you saw it happen but... ???
Anyway.. for the match I'll just let the 10 cent round land in the gravel.
uscbigdawg
08-20-10, 17:25
Actually it's the ejector igniting the primer. It happens mostly on long loaded 40 S&W. Ask me how I know. Not a friend's gun or heard from a guy. Happened to me while unloading and showing clear and NOT doing the rack & flip thingy.
Just a regular unloading of the gun. Cleaning the gun the night before, I noted that the extractor seemed a little loose but since the gun was running flawlessly at that day's practice, no need to adjust.
Next day at the match, first stage...kaboom. I caught a little brass on my index finger (on the side of the pistol out of the trigger guard) and then a face full of burned powder. Bullet went down the barrel.
Found out later that it happens mostly with long loaded 40. Go figure.
That said...none of this has anything to do with what the OP was talking/asking about.
Rich
ETA: It's not a "USPSA Thing" that the RO catches the round. We're there anyways and if the round is ejected 'far enough' it's there and easily caught. FWIW, it's NOT the RO's job in USPSA to confirm that the gun is clear. It's the competitor's responsibility. IPSC though it's reversed. International shooters are apparently incapable of this responsibility.
FWIW, it's NOT the RO's job in USPSA to confirm that the gun is clear. It's the competitor's responsibility. IPSC though it's reversed. International shooters are apparently incapable of this responsibility.
That is 100% correct. Even in my Intro to IDPA class, I teach that it is the shooters responsibility to know that his weapon is clear. The SO/RO is just there to assist. The RO is not the one who will be getting DQed for a shot fired at ULSC, it will be the shooter.
At my last carbine match, I was running a new shooter through the unload and show clear for both his pistol and carbine. In the process, the peanut gallery started discussing his procedural penalty. The shooter stopped, turned his head and started talking to the spectators. After 3 polite commands to unload and show clear with no response, I had to give him the drill sergeant voice at which he finally complied.
The other big issue I see is shooters who don't holster but chase dropped rounds and mags with the gun still in their hand.
OP, don't do that.
As far as ejected rounds, just roll the gun so the ejection port is down and rack it. The round drops at your feet. As an RO, I'm looking at the gun until it's in your holster and you take your hand off it, I'm not catching your round.
Gringop
I just got the list of stages for the match.... :suicide:
It is going to be one hell of a time!!! Should be lots of fun!
Well I just got Finished shooting my first match... and it was amazing. I can't wait to do it again! :lol:
Video of my first few stages: The old man that you can hear in the video was THE man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7qbHKnit54
The day started out at 6:00 when I woke up to look out the window at thunderstorms. So, I headed off to the match anyway. When I got there (an hour early) it was still raining. I met the ROs, got briefed on the rules and safety regs of the range, and walked the courses.
I started off running slow and deliberate and slowly worked up my speed while trying to maintain my accuracy. I did very well on several of the more complicated courses later on in the day, but due to the rain and my father forgetting to film a couple.... No vid of those....
I did fairly well. I think that I placed somewhere in the middle of the field. It was an extremely fun and eye opening time. Thanks all that gave me some tips before hand! Please comment!
Matt
_______________________________________________-
EDIT: Just got my scores! Scored 9th out of 10 overall...
However in the El Presidente I placed 4th and scored the Following: (Is that pathetic? How does this compare with other shooters?)
Place - 4
Division - Production
Points - 52
Penalties - 0
Time - 12.77
Hit Factor - 4.0720
Stage Pts - 32.5903
Stage% - 54.32
Thanks for coming back and reporting! Very glad to hear that you had a good time and will be going back...
Video looked great man... you were deliberate and aware. The first match is more about being safe than anything else, but it sounds like you finished very good for your first time... congrats.
Forgot to add a comment about your El Prez run - 52pts / 12.77 ... very respectable. The shooters at the very top of the sport, with production guns, are/can run this stage in high 4's to low 5' second range (match runs not practice day feats)... I have a few vids on my youtube page with a few classifer runs... I think one is Neuvo El Prez which has hostage cover over the targets but it's essentially the same classifer... I ran that one in 5.22 with 52pts...
But, given this is your first match you did outstanding! Once you shoot 3 more matches you will have 4 classifiers on file and should get your USPSA Production classification. If you haven't joined yet, I'd suggest you think about it....
Here's one of my vids with 3 classifier runs ... the 2nd stage in this video is Nuevo El Prez which is the one I was posting about earlier... It's a little more difficult that the 3 wide open targets but the shots are the same..same distance, etc.,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E48BCzpj1tU
Very cool. great vid
If I was wanting to get into IPSC on a serious level.. which I think I do... how would I go about getting classified and competing on a regional and national level? Obviously after much practice.
Well you've already taken the first step by finding a local club... do a search in your area and find all the local USPSA clubs that are within a reasonable driving distance and figure out their match schedule. All clubs do atleast one special classifier match a year... You might email the club president or club contact from your match this weekend and ask them if/when they will be doing another special classifier match. If not, then you will just need to hit 3 more monthly club matches because it takes 4 classifier stages on file with USPSA to get your initial classification -
Join USPSA so your classifers count - here is the website..
http://www.uspsa.org/
Also check out the Brian Enos' forum - everything you need to know about USPSA can be found on this forum...
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?
Great info.
Thank you Bryan
ROCKET20_GINSU
08-23-10, 01:15
+1 for the brian enos forum. There is a ton of knowledge there. Also check out Ben Stoeger's website: http://benstoeger.com/ lots of great articles and videos there.
Welcome to the sport, it is delightfully addicting.
GU
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.