View Full Version : Manufacturers claiming military contracts
Littlelebowski
08-20-10, 10:25
You know the spiel.
This is in use by military units in the field right now!
Made to military specifications!
We can't tell you what units are using these but HURRY because supplies are running out!
How do we go about asking leading questions to expose fraud and verify the truth?
governmentcontractswon.com is a start, but you need to really dig down and make sure you understand what you're reading. Some "manufacturers" have contracts but only as brokers or suppliers for things they don't actually make, or for items that are unrelated to the AR.
Crow Hunter
08-20-10, 10:49
governmentcontractswon.com is a start, but you need to really dig down and make sure you understand what you're reading. Some "manufacturers" have contracts but only as brokers or suppliers for things they don't actually make, or for items that are unrelated to the AR.
Or they sold 1 to Rock Island Arsenal for COTS testing/evaluation....:rolleyes:
Aren't there also "open" contracts, where the military can buy up to N units but does not guarantee they will purchase any at all?
Some companies such as Bushmaster also receive contracts /purchase orders but they're for FMS sales.
Or they sold 1 to Rock Island Arsenal for COTS testing/evaluation....:rolleyes:
So true.
Something I’ve seen is where manufactures market heavily to soldiers and/or sell certain items through the PX/Clothing & Sales. They get photos of soldiers using their equipment in theater and declare that it’s “in use by the military”.
Some companies such as Bushmaster also receive contracts /purchase orders but they're for FMS sales.
What are FMS sales?
Foreign Military Sales.
From where I'm sitting, I can throw a rock at some of the folks that administer that, and sometimes I reeeeeally want to.
Foreign Military Sales.
From where I'm sitting, I can throw a rock at some of the folks that administer that, and sometimes I reeeeeally want to.
I'll second that, from my time in the AF. Just like Joe Blow in the local gun shop, foreign purchasing officials can be influenced by many things, only a few of which have anything to do with quality weapons. The only thing Uncle Sam does on an FMS is officiate the sale. The material goes right from the manufactuer to the foreign government. Have you seen the pictures of piles of useless Bushmaster rifles the Georgian military junked.
If that's the picture I'm thinking of, wasn't that a pile of Bushies captured by the Russians in their little altercation?:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=18134&page=3
Excerpts from doublestar website. I am not saying the info is untrue, but it raises my eyebrows.
Since 2000, the same quality parts and service have been used to manufacture firearms for everyone from the average Joe Shooter to elite military and law enforcement units all over the world.
...
Here at DoubleStar we sell the best AR-15 and M-16 rifles and Carbines on the market. Our AR-15 and M-16 Rifles are built to perform. From the Soldier on the ground to the hunter in the woods our AR-15 and M-16 rifles and carbines will handle, shoot, and last a lifetime.
...
FFL dealer sales and government sales and export are a big part of our business. But we would like to let the private shooter know they are not forgotten at DoubleStar.
http://www.star15.com/about.html
I would love to see ANY proof at all of this claim.
Excerpts from doublestar website. I am not saying the info is untrue, but it raises my eyebrows.
I'm mostly just sick of them and the other cake-eaters in our offices throwing a giant hissy and squalling about "corporate policy" whenever we or the Marines drag a weapon (or several) into the office so we can take pics or do some other kind of demo/display of the systems we support, per the SoW of the bleeping blooping contract.
I'm at a loss as to where during the interview process the concept of "Infantry Weapons Systems" was somehow unclear.
We see a lot of garbage submitted (*cough* iper-snay eriscope-pay) for bid samples whenever we're doing source selections for a particular program. Sure enough, even if they get broomed, some variation of "chosen by the USMC...!!!" shows up in a gun rag or trade publication, eventually.
GermanSynergy
08-21-10, 00:32
I hear ya- all it takes for some of these types to make these assertions is one or two Joes buying a piece of kit, and then they can claim "as used by the 82nd ABN", or some such crap.
You know the spiel.
How do we go about asking leading questions to expose fraud and verify the truth?
Eurodriver
08-21-10, 01:05
I'm mostly just sick of them and the other cake-eaters in our offices throwing a giant hissy and squalling about "corporate policy" whenever we or the Marines drag a weapon (or several) into the office so we can take pics or do some other kind of demo/display of the systems we support, per the SoW of the bleeping blooping contract.
I'm at a loss as to where during the interview process the concept of "Infantry Weapons Systems" was somehow unclear.
We see a lot of garbage submitted (*cough* iper-snay eriscope-pay) for bid samples whenever we're doing source selections for a particular program. Sure enough, even if they get broomed, some variation of "chosen by the USMC...!!!" shows up in a gun rag or trade publication, eventually.
Please do whatever you can to replace the ESS glasses with something that has more use than a free gift to Iraqi children.
Thanks.
I would love to see ANY proof at all of this claim.
Read Combat_diver's post. Maybe that's where the claim is coming from.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=12384&highlight=doublestar
Technically speaking, a lot of companies can claim their stuff is used by the DOD. However, the claim may be somewhat misleading. The government sources a lot of parts from a lot of companies. If they need something, they need it now and will go to whoever passed certification (ISO9000, etc) to get it. If the DOD needs a ton of lower parts kits and they can't get them from Colt or FN, they call DPMS.
NCPatrolAR
08-24-10, 09:00
Interesting.
justin_247
08-24-10, 10:44
A lot of these companies have managed to sell weapons to private contractors deploying to do work for the DoD or DoS, so I'll bet some of them are basing it upon that. It's stretching logic and downright misleading.
1. We sold weapons to _____ contractor.
2. ______ contractor does work for ______ department.
3. Therefore, our weapons are used by _______ department.
And then, of course, there's Vulcan saying that they make "the machine guns of the special forces!" :bad:
"chosen by the USMC...!!!"
Perhaps 'chosen by the USMC to be placed into a trash dumpster, hopefully never to be seen again.'
Technically speaking, a lot of companies can claim their stuff is used by the DOD. However, the claim may be somewhat misleading. The government sources a lot of parts from a lot of companies. If they need something, they need it now and will go to whoever passed certification (ISO9000, etc) to get it. If the DOD needs a ton of lower parts kits and they can't get them from Colt or FN, they call DPMS.
Not to doubt that this may be true, but I would have to wonder how often it happens. And also what parts are encompassed, as one doesn't see many DMPS marked lower receivers utilized in the field by enlisted personnel. Not that I have ever seen, anyhow.
I know you state the parts are those that pass certification, but are they also only those that are unmarked as a rule perhaps?
This may be a dopey question, I know. But something just seems to be missing from your assertion. Not disputing you, just trying to learn.
Even in today's "run & gun" GWOT $ faucet is always "ON" Army, you still see very few non-contract-issue items when it comes to weapons.
I think T&E units or they sent one of a friend to use, etc. is more likely.
A private company just like my former employer doesn't count as a government contract. We used BM's. Still doesn't mean that BM had a government contract.
Read Combat_diver's post. Maybe that's where the claim is coming from.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=12384&highlight=doublestar
A private company just like my former employer doesn't count as a government contract. We used BM's. Still doesn't mean that BM had a government contract.
I see. When I was reading what 500grains quoted from Doublestar's site I thought maybe the link I posted might be relevant to this line.
"Since 2000, the same quality parts and service have been used to manufacture firearms for everyone from the average Joe Shooter to elite military and law enforcement units all over the world."
I guess I zeroed in on the elite military line and thought perhaps they were referencing to contractors instead of a government's military hence making their claim sort of true.
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