Glock 21 opinions wanted

[signal4l]

I am considering adding a G21 SF to the pile. This will be used for off duty and on duty carry.

One of the guys at ADCO has been shooting a G21 for many thousands or rounds with no problems.

Larry Vickers, whose opinion I respect, has described the G21 as "the biggest turd Glock makes". I believe the LA county SD has removed their G21's from service due to problems with the trigger bar.

My experience with other Glocks has been positive. I have very little trigger time with the 21.

I would value the opinois of those that have run one of these a bit.

Thanks

[GastonG-NoVa]

On duty and Off duty???

My first duty gun was a Glock 19. A few years after we recieved them one of our local neighbors ventalated a bad guy with 15-18 rounds. Shortly after this event we switched over to Glock 23s.

I really like the 23 it is fairly easy to conceal and still holds 13+1 of 40 cal. I think it is hard to beat.

As long as we are talkin, get yourself a Kramer horse hide IWB holster. I have worn mine for the past 12 years and it still never colapses, and is still stiff.

[Rana]

I don't own a G21 but I think there are a few better double stack .45's out there.

The new M&P .45, Springer XD .45, & HK45's [the newer model with the 1913 rail is suppose to hit the market this fall(?)] all come to mind.

I am a 1911/.45 Fanatic; so am BIASED in this department. Too me there has yet to be a better .45 pistol platform than JMB's century old Gov't design.;)

[signal4l]

Illinois has some nasty winters. I can hide a larger pistol in the colder months. During the summer I carry something smaller.

I have shot the XD and like it. Its just too big.

[Robb Jensen]

LAV shot my 21SF at the 1st Vickers AK class earlier this year. He liked it from what I recall. I wouldn't doubt it if he owns one.

[Hawkeye]

Havent had any issues with any of the couple of 21's I have owned. My current one has been great, though I dont have an overly high round count through it at present. I really like the 21.

[Grin Reaper]

My Glock 21 has +/- 1000rds though it (at least 500 of which was Wolf steel-case), with no complaints thus far. They're not at all hard to conceal with a simple untucked polo shirt (but bear in mind I'm just over 6' tall, about 185lbs; your mileage may vary).
The pistol-grip (I guess I could just say 'grip') is thicker than anything else Glock makes, so if you don't wear at least a size 7.5 glove, it may be too much to hold comfortably. I just got my hands on the new Glock 21 slim-frame at the local fun-store, but I couldn't really tell the difference between it and the standard G21.

I am aware that LAPD pulled their G21's from service, and I don't recall exactly why, BUT I remember reading the article and thinking something about 'finger off trigger until sights are on target'.

PS -- if you decide to get a different model for off-duty, I'd recommend the G30 without hesitation. Also, it will use the G21 mags.
I'd stay away from the Glock 36 (single-stack). This nasty little monster has a horrible twisting recoil that feels like a 2.5"-barrelled .44magnum.

edit -- here's my post on the Glock 21 from another forum -- http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8836&highlight=glock

[signal4l]

"Nasty little monster" is a fair description for the G36. Two of my co workers bought them. They sold them rather quickly.

[Nathan_Bell]

Illinois has some nasty winters. I can hide a larger pistol in the colder months. During the summer I carry something smaller.

I have shot the XD and like it. Its just too big.


Did they really cut the G21sf down enough that it is smaller than the XD? I have G21 and the XD 45 and the XD feels tiny in comparison to the G21.

[dialM4murder]

Illinois has some nasty winters.

And some even nastier gun laws. :rolleyes:



I have shot the XD and like it. Its just too big.

Then you couldnt possibly want a G21 SF. The XD is way smaller.

[signal4l]

And some even nastier gun laws. :rolleyes:



Then you couldnt possibly want a G21 SF. The XD is way smaller.

The gun laws here really do suck. Conceled carry is almost entirely a LEO activity. No full auto, sbr or sound supressors either. Our govenor and 'Da Mayor" (aka Richie Daley) are vehemently anti gun. They dont want anyone armed other than their body guards, of course.

I shot the 5 inch XD. The grip was quite comfortable, but seemed too long. I didnt care too much for the grip safety either. I will have to check out the 21 sf and , perhaps, the M&P 45.

Thanks

[dialM4murder]

The MP is very comfortable. Only holds 10 though unlike the g21 qnd the XD. Not sure if thats an issue for you though. Check it out.

[Gibbles]

My standard 21 has been great, I started using it as my sidearm in 3gun, I don't have a lot of rounds through it yet but I seem to shoot it the most consistent out of all my guns.
Here is a torture test on the gun. I think Glock needs to pay this guy, It helped sell the gun to me, and also helped me to decide on a new gun and not a used one. :D
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Item

[Steel_Weasel]

I carried a G21 24/7 for two years before finally ditching it and going back to my issue G22. It had flawless reliability and was a great 'tactical' gun but it was simply a brick for daily carry.

[CavReconScout]

I've been carrying a Glock 21 for around 5 years, and have a little over 10,000 rounds through it. I've never had a malfunction, other than those induced for training. It shoots great, and the recoil is very mild, probably because of the wide backstrap.

Having said that, I carry a Glock 23 off duty. It is much easier to conceal, and I have never thought about leaving it at home because it was too bulky, etc. Both have been great handguns, as have the other 4 Glocks I have owned. I guess I'm just lucky, because I haven't had the problems others have reported.

[cmdr249]

I have a G21 that I like as well and I just added a G21 SF to the battery.

I haven't had a chance to take the new 21 SF out yet for true test and evaluation but I can tell the difference in the grip feel and side-by-side I can see where the reductions in the frame are.

It feels good in the hand.

I'm personally not an XD fan but don't begrudge them to those that like them.

The M&P 45 is also of interest.

None of them will replace my slabside 45s though - can't beat a 1911. YMMV.

I hope to put real 21 SF details up as soon as I can but I won't be able to T&E until after July 18.

[Don Robison]

I've only got 200 rounds through my 21SF but so far I like it. It feels pretty similar to my G17, but a little thicker. It's going to the range with me tomorrow. I'm waiting for High Noon to finish my holster so I can carry it.

[Lawdawg8654]

My first duty weapon was the G23; I switched to the G21 and carried it for three years and several thousand rounds. No problems other than the 2x4 for a grip. I have since changed over to the MP.45 and will not look back. It is just right for me. S&W will be adding 14 round magazines in the near future as well.

[Haji]

I've got a Grock 30 that's a pretty decent gun. I'm a dyed in the wool 1911 guy, which is reverently called the "Man Gun" around the shop (or at least by Matt E, M4 Guru and myself ;) ), but it hurts a whole lot less to bang my G30 into something during the course of the day than it does my $1200 1911.

I was never a fan of the G20, or 21 for that matter, because they're so dang big, and I have big hands. The G21 SF, though, solves a lot of the problems with the standard G21. However, the cost of that happening is that the magazines aren't interchangeable.

[RAM Engineer]

I was never a fan of the G20, or 21 for that matter, because they're so dang big, and I have big hands. The G21 SF, though, solves a lot of the problems with the standard G21. However, the cost of that happening is that the magazines aren't interchangeable.

There are some pictures floating around of a G21SF with standard rail and non-ambi mag release. Pictures of the label with barcode, as well. I'm not sure if this is an "LEO-only" option. Trying to get my hands on one.

[ST911]

I like my G21s very much. With all deference to LAV, I would be much more inclined to characterize the G36 as the biggest turd.

The G21 is always popular in various local/regional citizen events.

Well suited for uniform carry, I know of several agencies that have issued them since first offered. They've established an excellent service record. I believe the G21 is likely the most reliable, most durable, most consistent mass-produced 45ACP on the market.

It's a bit big for optimal concealed carry, but it can be done with diligence.

[Robb Jensen]

There are some pictures floating around of a G21SF with standard rail and non-ambi mag release. Pictures of the label with barcode, as well. I'm not sure if this is an "LEO-only" option. Trying to get my hands on one.

It's not LE only but it's available to LE right now. This is always this way. Just like the fingergroove and rail frames 5yrs ago, they were available to LE first. This is a good thing.



I like my G21s very much. With all deference to LAV, I would be much more inclined to characterize the G36 as the biggest turd.

I had a G36 when it first came out (the G36 simply sucks). I couldn't get mine to run on 230gr ball or JHP. I sent it back to Smyrna twice and the replaced everything on it. I eventually traded it for a G30 and told the new owner that it won't run on 230gr but will on 165gr, 185gr and some 200gr which it would.

[Dibs50]

I just sold my G21 a few months ago and picked up an XD 45 Tactical 5" model. I liked my G21 but never loved it. I'm a fairly big guy (6'4, 275) and was able to carry concealed without any issues. I carried it in a Mitch Rosen ARG holster that pulled this pistol in real close. I really like most of the Glock models and presently own a G26.

My issue with the G21 was the grip. As previously described, it feels like a 2x4. While at a local range, I tried the XD and decided then and there to buy one. The grip is MUCH smaller and it's been said that it's only a hair larger than a 1911 grip.

If I were to buy again, I'd probably go with the Compact Model (10+1). I think is comes with 10 and 13 round mag in the case. With the 13 rounder, it becomes more of a full size. The grip on the full sized XD appears to be a little bit on the longer side. I guess that's how they fit 13+1 rounds of 45 into this pistol. Having the shorter grip would probably make it less likely to print.

If the 5" model was too long, you may want to consider is the 4" Service model. Of course, if the grip safety (a la 1911 pistols) is not your thing, you could try the M&P. I just held one recently and it felt really comfortable.

All in all, it comes down to personal preference and comfort. Glocks, Sigs, Smith & Wessons, Springfields, etc are all quality guns. I think that a lot of people get a little too wrapped up in "my gun is superior to yours because..." It's a tool and, like cars, come in all sorts of sizes with all sorts of bells and whistles. Buy something reliable that you're comfortable with, that you can shoot well and then practice, practice, practice. Just my .02.

[ST911]

Unfortunately for the XD, there are several particular vulnerabilities, lousy finish, and no product support in the field. QC in production seems to vary widely.

A few have found themselves afoul of their RM and insurance folks when the realize that Ultra Safety Assurance = Single Action.

As you note, though, not all differences matter to all end-users.

[Gibbles]

Another thing that turned me off from the XD was their policy on parts, if anything breaks you send it in for repair, they will not send you spare parts or replacement parts…

[Federale]

I've got a Glock 21 (not the SF) and I'm very happy with it. In fact, I can outshoot my HK USP Expert and my P220 with it, so it is no slouch in the accuracy department. I only had reliability problems with it when I decided to try out a recoil reducing spring/rod. Once I corrected that mistake and went back to stock, I haven't had a hiccup.

[RocketFuel]

I have a G20 (same frame as the G21) and G21SF. I personally notice a distinct difference in the grip circumference and trigger reach - G21SF is much better.

I had an XD45 Service, but sold it because the manual of arms was just different enough from my Glocks (own several other Glocks in 9mm) that I needed to shoot it differently - trigger, grip, angle, accessories, spare parts. Not a bad gun on it's own.

[Bushytale]

Some of the dealers at the Miami gunshow today had the 21SF with rail and ambi mag release in stock for sale to the general public. I was very interested in checking out the grip. Fortunately I was able to compare the 21 and 21SF side by side. Good stuff! The XD Tactical grip is better but the whole parts issue kills it for me. A 21SF with single mag release and rail are on my short list.

Billy

[Blankwaffe]

Ive never had an issue with the Glock 21.First experience with the big Glock .45 was circa 1993 when it was first issued to team officers by the SO.At first I hated the feel of the Glock due to the fact I had only used 1911's and Beretta 92's,and occasionally a 645.But being a ham fisted country boy I had no issues with fit and control of the pistola.Took a bit of adjustment on my part due to the angle and width of the grip,which threw my sight picture off a bit at first glance.It just did not point like I was use to seeing with other handguns.
The pistol I used worked 100%,without issue or ammo used.Pretty much ate anything I fed it.I personally think its a fine handgun,so much so I bought myself one a few years ago and I still like it today.

[smithjd]

I've had a G21 since about 1993. First one was a 2nd gen with at least 15k rounds through it (policy wouldn't allow me to carry it on duty). Malfunctions could be counted on both hands, or less, because I don't remember any. Sold it to get a 3rd gen with the light rail.

My 3rd gen does not fill me with confidence. I was getting the "light strike" LAPD problems with it...very, very frequently. I stripped it down and found that the striker block was not being lifted high enough to clear the striker, which was all peened and buggered from hitting the block. I happened to have an old gen 2 upgrade kit for the 21 in my bag, and replaced the trigger w/ trigger bar and the striker, noting that the old parts appeared to be nickel plated and "slick" while the new parts weren't... Couldn't change the striker block, since the old was a smaller size than the new.

Now it at least goes bang. Ran it through a Jeff Gonzalez class last summer without problem, but also without a light on it.

Now, when it is in my tac rig with an X200 on it, I get a mysterious fail to feed (hardball) periodically. This likely has something to do with the light on the rail.

G21 used to be IT (only hi-cap duty style .45 available, besides H&K). Worked great for me. Grip size was barely too big for me (works without gloves, but wearing gloves adds just too much). The G21SF just has a smaller grip (very good) and ambi mag release (I don't need it) and Picatinny rail (OK).

There are just many more options now. I'd swore off S&W after being forced to carry a 659 and Sigma for my first 9 years. Just tried out the M&P and have to say that I really liked it. Haven't tried the XD. Still would show up to work with a 1911 on (openly) the day they say I could.

BTW, all I do now is plain clothes and UC style work. Concealment is largely a matter of dress. Just did a UC shot the other day while wearing a full size 1911 and two spare mags. Not my first choice, obviously, but since we didn't have time to change, we made do. I find the 1911 conceals easier because it is flatter. Besides, it isn't a "cops gun", but having it in a holster defeats that argument, since bad guys typically don't use holsters.

"Return what others give to you."

Old Mongolian Proverb

[jeremy54b]

Hey All,

I'm a newbie to this board, but saw this thread and had some insight. Working for an FFL with an indoor range and rental 21's and having a 3rd gen G21 myself, I have a little insight.

I have close to 50K through my G21, no problems. The factory reps came in for their visit and tore my gun apart to do parts upgrades, found a broken frame rail (part of the recall run) and asked when it broke, I couldn't remember any problems. I sent it back to the factory in Smyrna, they sent it back to Daddy's in Austria and I got it back with an upgrade, new parts, and a bunch of free stuff from Glock.

Our rental Glocks get swapped every year (Glock's range program, not our idea), and probably hit 20K in that year. We've had one, ONE, issue with a rental gun, and it was instantly traced to magazine problems.

I have noticed that if one installs a tac-light on the frame rail, occasional malfunctions will result. The reps told me this is because on the G21 in particular, the addition of the light disrupts the flexing of the frame during the firing process...don't ask me, I'm just repeating what I was told. However, I've had no problems personally with either an M3 or a TLR-1. Perhaps it has to do with how tightly the light is on the rail?

I also read an article a while back (I'll try to locate it) where Vickers was singing the praises of a Robar'd G21...so maybe he's altered his stance?

Anyway, that's my .02, this board is AWESOME and has given me some great info so far.

[Boss Hogg]

However, the cost of that happening is that the magazines aren't interchangeable.

Glock was running a deal- and they probably are still- where you could exchange unused G21 mags 1-for-1 with G21SF mags.

[Alpha Sierra]

What about the CZ 97? Yeah, it's heavy, but otherwise?

[Linea_de_Fuego]

Glock was running a deal- and they probably are still- where you could exchange unused G21 mags 1-for-1 with G21SF mags.

My understanding is that the G21SF mags will retrofit into the G21 model, but the old G21 mags won't work with the new G21SF model.

[PLCedeno]

I have put about 3k rounds through the 21SF. No problems with factory loads. Had some light strikes and failures to extract while trying to perfect the right powder charge. Light loads tend not to fully cycle the gun and/or not fully put the gun in battery which i believe caused the light strikes w/Winchester primers.
I must say that the gun has an incredible ability to make even the hottest loads feel light. Conversely, light loads that easily cycle my Yost/Bonitz 1*(Enhanced) 1911, unreliably cycle my 21 SF. Bottom line: the gun is great for hot and premium/duty ammo. Difficult to tune for light loads.

[RSF45]

Bought my G21 in '95.
Never had a problem with it.
:cool:

[Plastic Fantastic]

I bought my G21 in 1991. 2nd gen frame(no light rail & no finger grooves.) I've put 1000's of rounds through it flawlessly. After having it for a few years, I noticed the pin for the locking block slid out almost all of the way. I pressed it back in and continued. This time it slid completely out of the frame. The gun still functioned flawlessly! I found out from a glock armorer that this was a recall and gave me a new replacement pin. Problem solved. Despite placing 1000's upon 1000's of rounds through it, it still functions flawlessly and is still a very accurate gun. I also wasn't to happy with the handle, so I slipped on a Hogue Hand-all slip on grip. It adds palm swells and finger grooves. A couple of local agentcies issue the G21 while others don't due to the size of the handle. The NYS Police have turned in their 9mm Glocks and now are issued G37's (45 GAP). If you are small to medium build, you may have a problem concealing it. I have no problem(5'9" 200lbs stocky build) I can conceal the G21 all of the time in the winter, and most of the time in the warmer months. I mainly carry concealed my Paraordnance Warthog in the summer. Unless you are tall or of the stocky build and have large paws, the G21 isn't a good choice for both duty and off duty carry. It's great as a duty weapon, but for concealment, I would go with the G30. It can accept the G21's mags and you can use the 13 round G21 mags as your spares. My wife has a G36, and she can put 230 grainers down the tube without a problem. With the 230's, the recoil is heavy. She also practices with 185 gr, but carries 165gr Hydrashoks without a functioning problem. I hope this helps you in your quest for a 45.:D

[DocGKR]

Glocks generally go bang every time and the G19/17 is one of the few pistols I would feel comfortable carrying right out of the box. Having said that, there have been some significant problems with Glocks in calibers other than 9mm--this is a fact, not an opinion.

There have been several failures of G21's in law enforcement use around here, including three blown guns at the local Police Academy and multiple magazine failures, resulting in many of the tactical teams in our area going back to 1911's. All the blown LE Glock's had ONLY fired new factory ammo. Glock's in other than 9mm seem particularly prone to this problem, as the Glock disconnector allows the pistols to fire slightly out of battery. LAPD's problems with G21's have been well documented. If you are LE, you can discuss these problems with Don Lazzarini, who was on the SWAT team many years, as well serving as range-master and armorer with Santa Clara PD; he has the most in depth knowledge of this issue of anyone I have met so far.

As many of you know, Larry Vickers is widely acknowledged as one of the best pistolsmiths currently working, as well as the only member of the American Pistolsmith's Guild to simultaneously serve on active duty in the U.S. military. Mr. Vickers served in numerous SOF assignments and may have more experience with .45 ACP pistols used in combat environments than just about anyone else on earth. Vickers has publicly stated:
"The 9mm Glocks are the best--the .40 S&W ones blow up and the full size .45 breaks - it's the worst gun Glock makes."

The bottom line is that the G21 has too many problems to be considered a hard use combat pistol. I’ll stick to Glocks in 9 mm.

[signal4l]

Thanks for the replies. Good info

[boltcatch]

I keep telling my buddy he needs to send his G21 back to Glock. He got it (3rd gen) a couple years back when I recommended he try a Glock for his first pistol. He wanted it in .45, so G21 it was.

It's been having light primer strikes since he got it. Tried new and extra power firing pin springs, still a no-go. Last range trip it was doing it about once per mag with every sort of .45 we had on hand.

I have no doubt Glock would set it right, but it can be hard to convince people to send things back sometimes. Meanwhile, he got a 19 and loves it.

[Robb Jensen]

I keep telling my buddy he needs to send his G21 back to Glock. He got it (3rd gen) a couple years back when I recommended he try a Glock for his first pistol. He wanted it in .45, so G21 it was.

It's been having light primer strikes since he got it. Tried new and extra power firing pin springs, still a no-go. Last range trip it was doing it about once per mag with every sort of .45 we had on hand.

I have no doubt Glock would set it right, but it can be hard to convince people to send things back sometimes. Meanwhile, he got a 19 and loves it.

I would send it back too. Particularly hard primers on some ammo doesn't do well in Glocks regardless of caliber.

[Shihan]

Glock was running a deal- and they probably are still- where you could exchange unused G21 mags 1-for-1 with G21SF mags.

I just got of the phone with Glock and they said this was an internet rumor. Damn I was going to get me a new 21SF:mad:

[Noff]

I've heard the normal g21 magazines can be modified to fit the g21sf by making a clearance cut in the side opposite the notch for the mag catch. I'd confirm this but I can't find info anywhere other than glocktalk and that site hasn't been working for me.

Also, there are factory g21's without the ambi mag release, which can take any of the magazines.

[Line Rider]

After about 3 years of looking I found a like new GL 21. I got is for $395. The main reason I bought it was for a duty weapon. The GL 21 fits my hand better than my issues GL 22. I have big "christmas ham" size hands. The first time is shot it I shot 98% on the Alabama POST course.

Currently, I can't carry it on duty but the management is schedule to change sometime in 2008. When this happpens I'm going to carry it in a Safariland SSIII. Our department ammo with more than likely be Federal Tactical 230 gr. :D

Off duty I can carry what I want to. I'm wearing it more in a Blade-Tech Sting Ray with a double magazine pouch. I'm 6'00'' and 220 pound and don't have a problem concealling it, even at the Galleria in Hoover off duty.

[PLCedeno]

For some reason my G21sf did not react well to the NY1/3.5lb connector conversion. It did however have the best stock trigger compared to its brothers in my stable.